I'm a proponent of 'I refuse to get fucking involved
Unfortunately we don't get a say in it. Such are the wonders of Our Democracy.
Israel can blow up foreign consulates, than the US will back Israel when their enemies predictably respond.
It's such a stupid system. If one of our Allies fucks around and finds out, we really shouldn't be obligated to back them, because it creates a perverse incentive (as do so many of our current systems) to do the aforementioned fucking around and finding out.
Israel attacks Iran > Iran attacks Israel > ??? > US gets involved > Israel gets exactly what it wants.
Israel isn't a formal ally though. We have no treaties with them at all.
It's an interesting grey area. Treaties would require voting. But them buying our politicians never gets voted on.
Anyway, a few missile attacks aren't going to do shit. Iran is pretty far from Israel so how are they ever going to actually "attack" them? In fact this attack is likely to be so ineffectual it's probably a false flag to get us to invade Iran.
If one of our Allies fucks around and finds out, we really shouldn't be obligated to back them,
You're not. You're not 'backing' your 'allies' because you're obligated to, but because you want to. Even NATO does not require a military response or any sort of response, if you actually read article 5. It's a promise of doing absolutely nothing.
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
States uphold their 'obligations' based on whether it is in their interests to do so. The most famous example being Italy refusing to join the Central Powers in 1914. Unfortunately, that is often the interests of the corrupt elites, not the people.
The most famous example being Italy refusing to join the Central Powers in 1914.
The irony here is that, despite being on the winning side by joining the entente in 1915, Italy basically came out of the war as if it had been on the losing side. England and France basically reneged on all their promises used to induce them to flip sides.
We are already in WWIII. It'll prob be in the history books that it started in 2014, with the CIA coup of Ukraine government, or 2022 with the Russia invasion of Eastern Ukraine. Though.. I guess it depends on who wins. If there is a winner.
Right now we're in that phase of escalatory events, until full, overt conflict breaks out.
You bring up an underrated point. A lot of people think the first day of WWIII is going to be when a nuke goes off or tens of thousands of troops engage in hundreds of skirmishes over dozens of countries all at once. The reality is the first day could be a small battle followed by weeks or even months of calm before things really ramp up.
If we disregard the Marco Polo bridge incident, the official start of World War II is September 1 with the German invasion of Poland. At the time, only 2 countries were at war (UK and France only declared war in September 3). In the months afterwards, absolutely nothing happened - the Sitzkrieg (sitting war).
If the NATO war on Russia becomes a world war, then 22 February 2022 will retroactively be the start of World War III. In fact, on Wikipedia they've already rewritten history for the war between Russia and Ukraine to start in 2014.
You are already involved, the US backs Israel with tax money and weapons which are produced with more tax money. And rightly so. Israel is the only thing standing between you and the hoards. No amount of fake videos of starving children can hide the facts.
Israel and their demonic cousins here in the US are responsible for then being shipped here by the million. The Israel problem needs ta final solution.
We all know you are an immigrant in Europe, likely in Poland given your knowledge of the cities, are you claiming to be a euro national now? And who is we?
There are in my opinion two options for "stable" relations between the West and the Middle East:
The Ann Coulter "Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity" option
The Star Trek "No interference with their social, cultural, or technological development" option.
Since the US wasn't founded as an Imperial project (despite it now being one) my personal preference would be the latter, though the ship may have already sailed on it being a viable option.
I assume it's just not really built for it. Iron Dome is primarily to intercept rockets. They're hot and follow a predictable trajectory. I'm sure it can intercept UAVs if it's small-planed sized stuff. If it's a swarm of nimble little guys like Ukraine is using - I'd think considerably harder to intercept.
But for whatever it's worth, they're claiming they intercepted the majority of them, but they didn't say specifically by Iron Dome. They say they intercepted them over Iraq and Jordan so probably some other system or aircraft?
More than 200 drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles were fired from Iran
Assuming one interceptor per threat, that'd be something like $20-30m in munitions.
Edit:
I should have known.
Statement by Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III on Iran's Strikes Against Israel April 13, 2024
At the direction of President Biden, U.S. forces in the Middle East on April 13 intercepted dozens of missiles and UAVs en route to Israel, launched from Iran, Iraq, Syria and Yemen. Our forces remain postured to protect U.S. troops and partners in the region, provide further support for Israel's defense, and enhance regional stability.
So shot down with something likely more expensive than Iron Dome and with the US paying for it instead of Israel. Though I assume the US probably pays for Iron Dome too...
just like all the smug lefties before wuflu were spouting "humanity is a virus lol, a lot of people should die to save the planet from muh climate change"
que 2020: "why aren't you wearing a mask, you're literally killing your grandma!"
all of the commie types dream of becoming comissars, tailors, poem writers, etc. in case le revolution happens, so yeah they'd definitely gun for higher-up roles only to be met with the rude reality of being lumpenproles
You underestimate the shills. They will never tire of their endless crusade (kek) to browbeat and gaslight us into backing the most glorious nation ever (Israel) by using outdated slurs from the Bush era and site rule manipulation.
Not sure Israel has much to fear. Last time the Iranian regime was retaliating, they ended up killing 0 Muricans and shooting down their own passenger plane.
Yeah. All I can find about this is that Iran launched a swarm of low-flying drones to cross Iraq and Lebanon/Jordan to get to Israel. And Jordan already said they'd try to shoot down any drones that cross their airspace. Given that Israel had (or has? Not sure if the drones got there yet) a bunch of advance warning on this, if the IDF doesn't swat all of them they're just incompetent.
That said, Israel will certainly use this as an excuse to try further escalation, and the cycle will continue getting worse.
A big airplane style drone isn't hard to stop, but the new wars will use swarm drones.
Like here's a drone that recharges from power lines so it basically has unlimited range and can carry a much heavier payload. You going to shoot down edit: your own power lines?
Of course it's easy to stop this one attack, but there's so many ways small drones can get around defenses. They're like the technology version of asymmetric guerilla warfare.
It does have a feeling that if we gave Floridans an hour notice there would be enough rocks and small arms fire to stop any drone attack. But somehow nuclear Isreal with it's dome and armed populace can't stop shit?
I said it was under attack; not that such attack was successful. If shit was overfllying me, I'd say I'd been attacked even if the military shut it down.
If the argument is rather that the shills will be at their desks, well, IDK.
A likely scenario was that Iran knew that most if not all wouldn't go through the air defense system of Israel and its allies, making it mostly a symbolic display of disapproval. Although, they only targeted the Strait of Hormuz (hijacking a tanker of Israeli ownership), which will piss off many more people than just the West and its allies.
It does however represent a form of escalation, and that can be attributed mostly to the recent actions of Russia.
Point all defence systems at the middle east, then just wait.
I'm a proponent of 'I refuse to get fucking involved, you can annihilate each other in isolation'
Unfortunately we don't get a say in it. Such are the wonders of Our Democracy.
Israel can blow up foreign consulates, than the US will back Israel when their enemies predictably respond.
It's such a stupid system. If one of our Allies fucks around and finds out, we really shouldn't be obligated to back them, because it creates a perverse incentive (as do so many of our current systems) to do the aforementioned fucking around and finding out.
Israel attacks Iran > Iran attacks Israel > ??? > US gets involved > Israel gets exactly what it wants.
Israel isn't a formal ally though. We have no treaties with them at all.
It's an interesting grey area. Treaties would require voting. But them buying our politicians never gets voted on.
Anyway, a few missile attacks aren't going to do shit. Iran is pretty far from Israel so how are they ever going to actually "attack" them? In fact this attack is likely to be so ineffectual it's probably a false flag to get us to invade Iran.
You're not. You're not 'backing' your 'allies' because you're obligated to, but because you want to. Even NATO does not require a military response or any sort of response, if you actually read article 5. It's a promise of doing absolutely nothing.
States uphold their 'obligations' based on whether it is in their interests to do so. The most famous example being Italy refusing to join the Central Powers in 1914. Unfortunately, that is often the interests of the corrupt elites, not the people.
The irony here is that, despite being on the winning side by joining the entente in 1915, Italy basically came out of the war as if it had been on the losing side. England and France basically reneged on all their promises used to induce them to flip sides.
Well, Italy also fought the war like it was on the losing side... as usual, losing a great number of men for almost no strategic objectives.
The Biden Admin will use this as a pretext to drag NATO into WWIII
We are already in WWIII. It'll prob be in the history books that it started in 2014, with the CIA coup of Ukraine government, or 2022 with the Russia invasion of Eastern Ukraine. Though.. I guess it depends on who wins. If there is a winner.
Right now we're in that phase of escalatory events, until full, overt conflict breaks out.
Depends on who wins. US and the left wins and all the history books will say it's Trump's and Russia's fault.
If the US wins, it will only be because the Left has been decimated.
You bring up an underrated point. A lot of people think the first day of WWIII is going to be when a nuke goes off or tens of thousands of troops engage in hundreds of skirmishes over dozens of countries all at once. The reality is the first day could be a small battle followed by weeks or even months of calm before things really ramp up.
Similar to how Vietnam war started slowly with sending aids to assist the French and I guess the roots of WW2 lie at the end of WW1
If we disregard the Marco Polo bridge incident, the official start of World War II is September 1 with the German invasion of Poland. At the time, only 2 countries were at war (UK and France only declared war in September 3). In the months afterwards, absolutely nothing happened - the Sitzkrieg (sitting war).
If the NATO war on Russia becomes a world war, then 22 February 2022 will retroactively be the start of World War III. In fact, on Wikipedia they've already rewritten history for the war between Russia and Ukraine to start in 2014.
I feel like the CIA coup of Ukraine in 2014 will be regarded as either the start or the equivalent of the Spanish Civil War.
Definitely started with Russia, but the CIA coup is the 'Franz Ferdinand' moment.
Israel isn't a member of NATO.
But it's free to use my country's army: the two soldiers as well as the brooms they use to train.
you are technically involved if you keep paying taxes to fund this
You are already involved, the US backs Israel with tax money and weapons which are produced with more tax money. And rightly so. Israel is the only thing standing between you and the hoards. No amount of fake videos of starving children can hide the facts.
Israel is either unable or unwilling to even defend themselves adequately. The idea that the US needs them is getting more and more disproven.
Israel and their demonic cousins here in the US are responsible for then being shipped here by the million. The Israel problem needs ta final solution.
A world without Israel, can you imagine?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2VxpTMAbas&ab_channel=TimPrisc
Comment Reported for: Rule 12 - Falsehoods
Comment Approved: This appears to be an opinion, regardless of it's truth value.
Oh no. How terrible. That's just awful. Oh no.
Still not my war.
Sorry to Raytheon shareholders but we need to defend our own borders before we can defend others.
We all know you want to israel defeated, but unfortunately for stormfags, the civilized world does not share your dangeorus views.
Shit I was wrong about lack of shills
The sun never sets on the shill empire
We've already established that you belong to one of these groups: Azerbaijani, Crimean Tatar, Gagauz, Kazakh, Tatar, and Turkish.
None of these countries belong to the civilized world.
You're also a Turk lol.
I am? Earlier you claimed that I'm an 'Arab'. Maybe you need to make up your own 'mind' first.
So what are youοΌYou're not an European
I'm not a European, correct.
What are you?
Is there any meaningful difference?
Apparently, you think so.
We all know you are an immigrant in Europe, likely in Poland given your knowledge of the cities, are you claiming to be a euro national now? And who is we?
What? I've never talked about cities in Poland. But nice dodge as to your whereabouts, crazy person.
I can see your comment history from when you were a moderator.
Why the fuck does it matter? You ain't providing bona-fides, so shut the fuck up.
Show me the comments then.
Seems to me like more and more are coming around to my view every day. 110+ is coming soon.
Funny cause it looks like the majority of people disagree with you, JIDF.
I'm not calling for genocide or anything but...if we had already nuked Israel and Palestine, there wouldn't have been anything for Iran to attack.
Just sayin
There are in my opinion two options for "stable" relations between the West and the Middle East:
Since the US wasn't founded as an Imperial project (despite it now being one) my personal preference would be the latter, though the ship may have already sailed on it being a viable option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q
Comment Reported for: Rule 2 - Violent Speech
Comment Removed for: Rule 2 - Violent Speech
Michael Knowles comment about transgenderism is how you avoid violating this rule.
How did the Iron Dome not catch drones?
It's like the shields in Dune, only missiles travelling at high speed are detected.
Jihadi Rednecks on Parasails cannot be stopped.
So then, all we need is a lasgun of sufficient size...
Or atomics.
Or simply our voice. Shaaaa~~
Far more effective this way.
I assume it's just not really built for it. Iron Dome is primarily to intercept rockets. They're hot and follow a predictable trajectory. I'm sure it can intercept UAVs if it's small-planed sized stuff. If it's a swarm of nimble little guys like Ukraine is using - I'd think considerably harder to intercept.
But for whatever it's worth, they're claiming they intercepted the majority of them, but they didn't say specifically by Iron Dome. They say they intercepted them over Iraq and Jordan so probably some other system or aircraft?
Assuming one interceptor per threat, that'd be something like $20-30m in munitions.
Edit: I should have known.
So shot down with something likely more expensive than Iron Dome and with the US paying for it instead of Israel. Though I assume the US probably pays for Iron Dome too...
Probably turned it off
just like all the smug lefties before wuflu were spouting "humanity is a virus lol, a lot of people should die to save the planet from muh climate change"
que 2020: "why aren't you wearing a mask, you're literally killing your grandma!"
all of the commie types dream of becoming comissars, tailors, poem writers, etc. in case le revolution happens, so yeah they'd definitely gun for higher-up roles only to be met with the rude reality of being lumpenproles
You underestimate the shills. They will never tire of their endless crusade (kek) to browbeat and gaslight us into backing the most glorious nation ever (Israel) by using outdated slurs from the Bush era and site rule manipulation.
Nobody ever accused them of too short holding a grudge.
Out of curiosity, was the title supposed to link to a news article?
No. I just heard it on Fox News.
Self-text post.
Who gives a fuck?
Holy shit.
I know. The Israel shills actually kept it in their pants. Amazing. They are learning.
Good.
Not sure Israel has much to fear. Last time the Iranian regime was retaliating, they ended up killing 0 Muricans and shooting down their own passenger plane.
Yeah. All I can find about this is that Iran launched a swarm of low-flying drones to cross Iraq and Lebanon/Jordan to get to Israel. And Jordan already said they'd try to shoot down any drones that cross their airspace. Given that Israel had (or has? Not sure if the drones got there yet) a bunch of advance warning on this, if the IDF doesn't swat all of them they're just incompetent.
That said, Israel will certainly use this as an excuse to try further escalation, and the cycle will continue getting worse.
I feel like these drone attacks could easily be stopped with a few soviet era radar SPAAG. Just guns, no missiles. Would be cheaper.
A big airplane style drone isn't hard to stop, but the new wars will use swarm drones.
Like here's a drone that recharges from power lines so it basically has unlimited range and can carry a much heavier payload. You going to shoot down edit: your own power lines?
Of course it's easy to stop this one attack, but there's so many ways small drones can get around defenses. They're like the technology version of asymmetric guerilla warfare.
Chad yes.
Reject modernity, embrace tradition.
It does have a feeling that if we gave Floridans an hour notice there would be enough rocks and small arms fire to stop any drone attack. But somehow nuclear Isreal with it's dome and armed populace can't stop shit?
Oh who gives a fuck, it's some far away country. Let it all burn, whatever side.
πΏππ₯€
Have fun guys. I'll be monitoring the situation.
To be honest, this looks like a presidential campaign promotion. All of the news stations are saying President Biden will solve this conflict.
>lose Afghanistan
>lose Ukraine
>??? Iran
Biden's going for the hat trick, and all in one term.
I didn't say it was a smart move, I'm saying that's what the news is talking about.
Just like he's solved so many other things in the last few years, right? π
Well, if food prices keep climbing, he may solve the obesity problem.
im just waiting for the inevitable drafts to be employed to kick of the Ceeveel wor
Oh boy, Sinfest is going to have his work cut out for him in the coming days/weeks.
Hope they burn Israel to the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q
Watch out for that Samson option.
Bruh, they literally just shot down a bunch of drones, not a single rocket hit tel-aviv today
I said it was under attack; not that such attack was successful. If shit was overfllying me, I'd say I'd been attacked even if the military shut it down.
If the argument is rather that the shills will be at their desks, well, IDK.
A likely scenario was that Iran knew that most if not all wouldn't go through the air defense system of Israel and its allies, making it mostly a symbolic display of disapproval. Although, they only targeted the Strait of Hormuz (hijacking a tanker of Israeli ownership), which will piss off many more people than just the West and its allies.
It does however represent a form of escalation, and that can be attributed mostly to the recent actions of Russia.
Wat? What actions?