Force them all to testify in inquiries into these activities. They can't plead the 5th anymore so they can't refuse to testify. And if any of them perjure themselves, you can charge them with perjury because that offense would be committed after the pardon was issued.
Like states went after Biden after Trump's indictments, and disqualified him from the ballot when Trump was thrown off. Oh wait, they did nothing, because Republicans are professionally useless.
Fauci has already demonstrably lied before Congress. When Rand Paul was pressing him with questions, I'm not sure if he even responded with a single truth.
Considering that he's already lied about nearly everything, it's possible that Biden's pardon would protect him against perjury as well.
Honest question: if he perjures himself about the same subject for which he's perjured himself in the past and been pardoned for, is it still considered a crime?
Yes. Pardons only cover past actions, and any new crimes aren't covered under those terms. If he commits perjury tomorrow, he can be held responsible for it.
Something tells me that if we look at your comments from a few months ago, it will be all: "no guys, don't bother voting Trump, they'll steal it anyway".
Meanwhile Trump and JD Vance are fucking around saying “we might not pardon all jan 6th patriots because some of them may be charged with aggressive fence-pushing”
And they're right to say that. Lecturn Guy from J6 made an excellent point that a blanket pardon just sweeps this whole thing under the rug. The judicial malpractice and malicious behavior needs to be investigated so these people get justice, not just an apology upon release.
The judicial malpractice and malicious behavior needs to be investigated ...
That's not what they're talking about. Nobody is talking about that. Trump just doesn't want the media to say that he pardoned "violent Right-wing extremists" because he's a cuck that hate's not being liked. Trump is still waiting for the media to like him again.
Clinton and Obama pardoned and commuted members of The Weather Underground and FALN who bombed American cities and killed cops. No apology, no hesitation. The Right sheepishly consults "the rules" while the Left look out for their own, as seen with these pardons today.
Yes, absolutely! He has not a goddamn thing to lose this time around. These people tried to burry him, figuratively and literally, and he's talking about "we have to look at the facts." Why? Trump needs to be a bull in a china shop, he needs to get fucking wild, because Liberty will never get another chance like this for at least another generation.
Clinton, Obama, and Biden all pardoned violent Left-wing terrorists. People that bombed Americans, killed cops, trafficked drugs and laundered money for cartels, defrauded investors, etc., etc. You can see the lists for each on Wikipedia. They never apologized for it and the media never tasked them for it. "We have to consider the facts on a case by case basis." Fuck that!
Lecturn Guy from J6 made an excellent point that a blanket pardon just sweeps this whole thing under the rug.
I would not be taking legal advice from 'Lectern Guy', to be honest. Fact of the matter is, no matter what you do, the people who committed this atrocity are probably getting off scot-free. I very much doubt that there's going to be any justice for them.
And of those people, I'd wager that 95% of the "violent" ones were just feds trying to hype up an attack to begin with. Of the few that are left, they probably should be pardoned anyway, but falling into a fed trap is also still making a choice.
I don't disagree that any delay is unacceptable, especially after how long they've sat there. If they delay for anything but literal being blocked by bureaucratic bullshit (of which there is always some) then they should be held to task on it.
They've had the time to sniff out who is and isn't innocent of anything beforehand, and should be handing those out immediately for the vast majority of which there is no question. But I disagree that their rhetoric around it is complete nonsense.
However, we will see if that ends up proven wrong. Anything can happen these days.
Ford pardoned Nixon before he was charged with anything, then Carter took that precedent a step further and preemptively blanket pardoned all the Vietnam draft dodgers. Courts didn't care.
Doesn’t matter, a presidential pardon doesn’t cover military treason or non federal crimes. Milley can still be dragged out and shot day 1 if Trump had the balls and states can still sue Fauci into oblivion for damages done. The only one this really protects is the scumbags involved in the J6 committee and even then lawfare is completely on the table now.
The scamdemic requires a reckoning that's incalculably bigger than just Fauci, so a skin-deep protection for him doesn't mean much - it might even help keep the anger over the covid years alive, which is important. I agree the select committee protections are the most egregious. There should be a meaningful deterrent to show trial collaborators.
I'm not sure about your other claims, but regarding this:
The only one this really protects is the scumbags involved in the J6 committee and even then lawfare is completely on the table now.
I believe they can be prosecuted for contempt of Congress if they do not testify, they can no longer take the fifth. So they either have to tell the truth, or they open themselves up for prosecution.
These people should all face justice after a speedy and fair trial.
Also, on January 20th, really? The Fauci pardon meme is real. What a bunch of treasonous snakes.
The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
the excusing of an offense without exacting a penalty
a release from the legal penalties of an offense
excuse or forgiveness for a fault, offense, or discourtesy
to absolve from the consequences of a fault or crime
Was there even a specified scope of time? Or is it just assumed they are pardoned of "all potential federal crimes ever up until now"? Because if so, they have no more 5th amendnent right to not self-incriminate and accept that they can be compelled to testify on all the things.
Suppose the pardons are upheld: Could some of these people still be forced to appear if there was to be some sort of grand presentation of the truth? More or less a humiliation ritual? Yes, it's a gigantic cope for me.
The executive is powerful. Biden did what he wanted. Trump can do whatever he wants. One sign that would prove to us Trump is controlled opposition is if he says "well my hands are tied" and respects the pardons without a fight.
Legally, the only thing this means is officers of the court (judges) won't allow these people to be convicted of... something. I'm not even sure that's clearly defined and is one avenue of challenge. I'm holding out hope the Trump will do what he has to do and let history be the judge.
I mean the possibilities are endless, no? Even staying within the bounds of legality and non-violence. (even if some of these scoundrels deserve to be 'disappeared' and SCOTUS ruled the president has wide immunity that might protect him after such actions...)
Fundamentally, I want him to act as if the pardons don't exist. Have Independent hearings and investigations that lead to DOJ investigations and charges. Throw as many crimes as you can at these people and let the courts throw them out one by one. Take it to SCOTUS. When those paths have been exhausted then he can explore other avenues. Look at how blue states react to SCOTUS overruling their anti-2a laws. Do they give up and say "ok I guess we have to stop taking away citizens rights now"? No they get creative and find new ways to punish lawful gun owners.
There is infinite lawfare. Undoubtedly many unrelated or tangentially related crimes they could be harassed and investigated over, repeatedly, like they did to him. Have the FBI bust into Cheney's house in the middle of the night looking for evidence she has surely hidden. Have the IRS audit all of the police who lied at the show trial. Force Biden family members to testify in ways that would further embarrass the family. Extradite Fauci to another country that wants to press charges against him. At the end of the day, even if all the attempts are thrown out, Trump will still have forced the scoundrels to waste their own money and time over the years.
Force them all to testify in inquiries into these activities. They can't plead the 5th anymore so they can't refuse to testify. And if any of them perjure themselves, you can charge them with perjury because that offense would be committed after the pardon was issued.
Also recall Milley and demote him.
^^ This
Fauci plausibly killed millions and now only faces perjury charges.
What a disgrace.
States can still individually go after fauci. He’s only pardoned from federal crimes.
Individuals can individually go after Fauci...
Luigi, whatta do you meana by thata?
States are individual government entities that constitute the union we call the US.
Like states went after Biden after Trump's indictments, and disqualified him from the ballot when Trump was thrown off. Oh wait, they did nothing, because Republicans are professionally useless.
True.
Not just perjury: lying to Congress. If you could prove it, you could still send him to prison.
In theory, other countries may eventually come around to find criminality in his actions. Unlikely perhaps, but I would think possible.
True. In theory, Trump could ask his friends in Japan to convict them and he could extradite them.
Would be a nice deal for him to make with Russia, too.
Fauci has already demonstrably lied before Congress. When Rand Paul was pressing him with questions, I'm not sure if he even responded with a single truth.
Considering that he's already lied about nearly everything, it's possible that Biden's pardon would protect him against perjury as well.
If he commits perjury again he would still face purely charges. Even if it is about the same topic he lied about in the past.
Maybe, but not if he perjures himself again.
Edit: one would think, anyway.
Honest question: if he perjures himself about the same subject for which he's perjured himself in the past and been pardoned for, is it still considered a crime?
Yes. Pardons only cover past actions, and any new crimes aren't covered under those terms. If he commits perjury tomorrow, he can be held responsible for it.
IANAL, but that seems like a question that needs to drag him through the court system for years, all the way to SCOTUS.
Trump should recall Milley and send him to the frontlines as infantry.
dishonorable discharge.
Trump could do this at the very, very minimum. He won't -- because he likes being liked, even by people that hate him -- but he could.
Trump never strikes out at his enemies; he always lets the snakes get away to bite him another day.
Something tells me that if we look at your comments from a few months ago, it will be all: "no guys, don't bother voting Trump, they'll steal it anyway".
Meanwhile Trump and JD Vance are fucking around saying “we might not pardon all jan 6th patriots because some of them may be charged with aggressive fence-pushing”
And they're right to say that. Lecturn Guy from J6 made an excellent point that a blanket pardon just sweeps this whole thing under the rug. The judicial malpractice and malicious behavior needs to be investigated so these people get justice, not just an apology upon release.
That's not what they're talking about. Nobody is talking about that. Trump just doesn't want the media to say that he pardoned "violent Right-wing extremists" because he's a cuck that hate's not being liked. Trump is still waiting for the media to like him again.
Clinton and Obama pardoned and commuted members of The Weather Underground and FALN who bombed American cities and killed cops. No apology, no hesitation. The Right sheepishly consults "the rules" while the Left look out for their own, as seen with these pardons today.
Which proves he has learned nothing. The media will attack him regardless so he has nothing to lose from freeing them.
Yes, absolutely! He has not a goddamn thing to lose this time around. These people tried to burry him, figuratively and literally, and he's talking about "we have to look at the facts." Why? Trump needs to be a bull in a china shop, he needs to get fucking wild, because Liberty will never get another chance like this for at least another generation.
Clinton, Obama, and Biden all pardoned violent Left-wing terrorists. People that bombed Americans, killed cops, trafficked drugs and laundered money for cartels, defrauded investors, etc., etc. You can see the lists for each on Wikipedia. They never apologized for it and the media never tasked them for it. "We have to consider the facts on a case by case basis." Fuck that!
Biden just commuted the sentence of Leonard Peltier.
He was convicted for killing two FBI agents. The FBI has been doing everything in its power to help Biden.
I would not be taking legal advice from 'Lectern Guy', to be honest. Fact of the matter is, no matter what you do, the people who committed this atrocity are probably getting off scot-free. I very much doubt that there's going to be any justice for them.
How exactly is anything going to be investigated after JoePedo issued a blanket pardon to everyone involved except the protestors?
Don't retroactively apply new developments to old statements.
Vance went on record saying his reasoning for it was to figure out who were informants and fed plants among those in the crowd, and not pardon those.
Of which there were a lot.
"Nooo, muh heckin' based, bearded Veep not going balls to the walls blanketin'!" -
Totally not Ray Epps in a shit wig and fake glassesVance was BS'ing, I'm sorry to say as one of his supporters of the first hour.
On TV, he said that 'VIOLENT' offenders should not be pardoned. Only later did he say that this is to weed out federal informants.
And are the 20 or so federal informants worth keeping 1580 people in limbo for days and perhaps weeks? Every delay adds to their stolen years.
And of those people, I'd wager that 95% of the "violent" ones were just feds trying to hype up an attack to begin with. Of the few that are left, they probably should be pardoned anyway, but falling into a fed trap is also still making a choice.
I don't disagree that any delay is unacceptable, especially after how long they've sat there. If they delay for anything but literal being blocked by bureaucratic bullshit (of which there is always some) then they should be held to task on it.
They've had the time to sniff out who is and isn't innocent of anything beforehand, and should be handing those out immediately for the vast majority of which there is no question. But I disagree that their rhetoric around it is complete nonsense.
However, we will see if that ends up proven wrong. Anything can happen these days.
They've had years to review the public court records and match up who was false-flagging and who was invited in by the police.
Has it been established by SCOTUS that a crooked President can confer blanket pardons and immunity for precrime not yet charged or investigated?
This shit is completely insane and needs to be thrown out by scotus immediately.
You mean like Richard Nixon’s pardon?
Ford pardoned Nixon before he was charged with anything, then Carter took that precedent a step further and preemptively blanket pardoned all the Vietnam draft dodgers. Courts didn't care.
Doesn’t matter, a presidential pardon doesn’t cover military treason or non federal crimes. Milley can still be dragged out and shot day 1 if Trump had the balls and states can still sue Fauci into oblivion for damages done. The only one this really protects is the scumbags involved in the J6 committee and even then lawfare is completely on the table now.
The scamdemic requires a reckoning that's incalculably bigger than just Fauci, so a skin-deep protection for him doesn't mean much - it might even help keep the anger over the covid years alive, which is important. I agree the select committee protections are the most egregious. There should be a meaningful deterrent to show trial collaborators.
I'm not sure about your other claims, but regarding this:
I believe they can be prosecuted for contempt of Congress if they do not testify, they can no longer take the fifth. So they either have to tell the truth, or they open themselves up for prosecution.
Only if we end up with an Attorney General with balls. Otherwise they'll just lie with impunity like usual.
pardoned for what? pardoned for what former president?
High crimes against the United States and all of humanity.
My GOD - the outright projection here.
Public Servants .... LIKE TRUMP... have been subjected to ongoing threats and intimidation for faithfully discharging their duties.
EVERYONE called it he would pardon the rats that were desperate to flee now that their ship is sinking.
I think the only one Biden didn't pardon was that backstabbing ex lawyer of Trump's as he's seemingly been left out to dry.
How rhe hell can unelected beurocrats be the 'lifeblood of democracy'?
You answered your own question.
These people should all face justice after a speedy and fair trial.
Also, on January 20th, really? The Fauci pardon meme is real. What a bunch of treasonous snakes.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
His own corrupt DOJ has been telling Jan 6 protesters that by getting pardoned, they're admitting guilt.
Alternate headline: Biden proves we were right about all these people the whole time.
And here is proof positive that they al committed major crimes and that the Democrats are a criminal syndicate
Most disgraceful and corrupt administration in the history of the USA,
His entire fucking family got a blanket pardon
Was there even a specified scope of time? Or is it just assumed they are pardoned of "all potential federal crimes ever up until now"? Because if so, they have no more 5th amendnent right to not self-incriminate and accept that they can be compelled to testify on all the things.
From 2014 to now.
This twitter post doesn't include a formal document, so I couldn't say.
The pardon documents are posted here: https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-joseph-biden-2021-present#19-Jan-2025-pardon
It seems each group has their own lengths of time.
Accidents happen all the time.
Suppose the pardons are upheld: Could some of these people still be forced to appear if there was to be some sort of grand presentation of the truth? More or less a humiliation ritual? Yes, it's a gigantic cope for me.
The executive is powerful. Biden did what he wanted. Trump can do whatever he wants. One sign that would prove to us Trump is controlled opposition is if he says "well my hands are tied" and respects the pardons without a fight.
Legally, the only thing this means is officers of the court (judges) won't allow these people to be convicted of... something. I'm not even sure that's clearly defined and is one avenue of challenge. I'm holding out hope the Trump will do what he has to do and let history be the judge.
Biden did what he wanted with a compliant, criminal, sympathetic federal apparatus backing him.
How should he be fighting them?
I mean the possibilities are endless, no? Even staying within the bounds of legality and non-violence. (even if some of these scoundrels deserve to be 'disappeared' and SCOTUS ruled the president has wide immunity that might protect him after such actions...)
Fundamentally, I want him to act as if the pardons don't exist. Have Independent hearings and investigations that lead to DOJ investigations and charges. Throw as many crimes as you can at these people and let the courts throw them out one by one. Take it to SCOTUS. When those paths have been exhausted then he can explore other avenues. Look at how blue states react to SCOTUS overruling their anti-2a laws. Do they give up and say "ok I guess we have to stop taking away citizens rights now"? No they get creative and find new ways to punish lawful gun owners.
There is infinite lawfare. Undoubtedly many unrelated or tangentially related crimes they could be harassed and investigated over, repeatedly, like they did to him. Have the FBI bust into Cheney's house in the middle of the night looking for evidence she has surely hidden. Have the IRS audit all of the police who lied at the show trial. Force Biden family members to testify in ways that would further embarrass the family. Extradite Fauci to another country that wants to press charges against him. At the end of the day, even if all the attempts are thrown out, Trump will still have forced the scoundrels to waste their own money and time over the years.
does a pardon preclude a disohnorable discharge?
just wondering...