Hmm ok so you aren’t opposed to cerebral media in general, just NGE... I have a few questions if you want to share:
Do you recognize a value in the impact a piece of media has in spawning/inspiring other media? Akira for example, being very influential on not just later anime but cinema itself in multiple ways? Or is the value (or lack thereof) of a piece of media entirely contained within the media itself?
Roughly, are you old enough that you grew up with these media, or are you “looking back” at them from a purely modern perspective? What I mean is, are you the kind of person who can appreciate a black and white film, or something otherwise “dated”, with the acknowledgement that the art form in general has “improved” since?
What did you discern as the message of NGE? Do you find no value in that message, or do you believe it didn’t convey that message adequately, or what?
Was Akira trash too?
This might sound silly to some, but for a while now I’ve thought of NGE as almost “biblical”, like in the way it layers and intersperses meaning and symbolism throughout deeply personal stories, told under the auspices of world-ending cataclysm. And that’s before even discussing the “actual” “religious” elements of the plot, which are interesting in their own right - but which I’ve seen the creator downplay in an interview, which I find intriguing given what seems to be his overall message of rejecting “total escapism into fantasy”
After he rejects it though, it’s stated that anyone with a strong enough desire/will to return can also reject it, hence Asuka coming back after him. You could imagine that happens to others, or you could imagine a new Adam and Eve scenario, both of which are intriguing in their own rights.
You’re totally right about the plot structure going semi-haywire (villains left unconfronted/discovered, and never really getting the kind of perfect/complete breakdown of their methods & motivations we rationally desire) - BUT - that’s from the perspective that seeks control (total knowledge) or seeks to dive in to “escapist fantasy” completely, and I think that in fact one of the most powerful things NGE as a franchise has to say is on the rejection of complete escapism! Both the original show and the rebuilt series end by showing the real (non-anime) world, and I don’t think that’s an accident. Shinji’s choice is ultimately one between “comfortable” fantasy of total ego dissolution, and (the sometimes harsh) reality, where the only way to connect with others involves making yourself vulnerable.
:)
Yeah I’ve never been a purist about that stuff. If anything, I like having both subs and dubs, as you don’t just get two (similar) versions of the script, but you also get a new, third perspective in the ability to compare the two... but uhh yeah, I certainly can’t help but giggle at the odd line delivery here and there
Hmm, interesting take... what makes you say that the ending of NGE/EoE removed the agency of the characters? Because it all came down to Shinji’s choice to reject Instrumentality or not?
I highly recommend it, 4.0 ties it all together quite beautifully.
Edit: I’ve never read or read about the comic, is it also it’s own take on the story or is it basically the show?
Yeah, you’re definitely not alone there... if you’re looking for something a little more digestible, the 4 movie “Rebuild of Evangelion” series is a bit less abstract and slightly more willing to “come out and say” its message (however the message of Rebuild is not quite the same as the show or as End of Evangelion, the movie capstone of the show).
It’s possible that you had already come to learn the lessons present, and thus the media has nothing to offer you, but if you were just too young or distracted and think you missed things, I recommend giving it another shot, as I feel these pieces of art are a wellspring of insight on the human condition
Just finished the Rebuild series last night. Wow.
Which version spoke most to you? Did you see past the facade of big robots fighting to hear the message? What message did you hear?
I’m still kind of stewing on it all
Two villains complicates a narrative
Why do you call this guy “punisher creator”? He had nothing to do with the character
Excellent trilogy, like others here I’ve not read the later books. Avoid the show at all costs, it is diarrhetic garbage
Rule 16! Rule 16!!! BAN BIDEN FOR RULE 16!!!!!
Isn’t this the weeb community? Lol
That’s another good one!
And 1% chez-posting about the crown-jewel of video game storytelling, TETRIS
So {ConPro} got you banned here? Is {ConPro} in the room with us right now?
Besides, you didn’t make an argument, just a bold claim with a single thread as “proof”. Honestly half the time I can’t tell if you’re an example of Poe’s Law or an actual incel lol
Haven’t you been banned from here multiple times? Maybe people just don’t like you, regardless of how poorly you make your arguments
Yep, two downvotes from Joker for linking ConPro, a third from Imp for the same, and a fourth from you because you’re still nursing wounds from a ban handed out “years ago”.
I’m shaking in my boots
Why would Jews shill an ideology that cuts off the main profit source of the banks that they own?
You should ask that on ConPro I’m sure you’d get some edifying answers
What’d you get banned for? Being a whiny bitch?
See if any of the studs on MGTOW will wipe the tears from your eyes
That one is pretty good too, I’m just so tired of hearing about the flu now, 3 years in, so I don’t browse it much. Get enough of that shit in real life (from the other “side”, but it’s mostly the same logic traps on either side)
Well, fair enough on the first two points, absolutely fine takes to have, just not ones that really need any further discussion, so I’ll just skip to 3, and keep focused on what the message of NGE is, contained within the media itself (so no, I’ll try not to reference the Japanese only PS2 game(‘s bonus content, lol) that sometimes gets brought up) - have you read my other comments to other users in this thread? I think they have some useful context for what my thoughts on the “message” of the series could be. But to boil it down, I think both the God-Tier (Adam and Lilith, first ancestral race, spears, eggs, etc) plot and the Civilization-Tier (Seele, Nerv, Instrumentality, Tokoyo3, etc) plot shouldn’t be regarded as the core of the message, but rather as symbolic elaborations on the core message (which I think is Shinji’s personal journey, which isn’t just about the external, “larger” plot lines alone, but also clearly deeply related to his “internal drama” of fear of rejection, and tendency to withdraw or run from situations that present even the possibility of rejection or disappointment).
So that’s just a lot of words to say that, while you can totally be annoyed that the show’s plot “went haywire at the end” or “conflicts/plot elements were left without perfect knowledge on their origin and outcome being given”, those are both, effectively, “missing the point” of the show. The Evas, the Angels, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Seele, all the various sideplots (MAGI and Ritsuko, Misato and Kaji, the school kids, etc) serve their purpose of facilitating and birthing the real story, the real message, which is effectively about Shinji’s (and thus every member of the audience’s) responsibility to not run away from the gift of life, but to embrace it entirely, aware that the lows are what make the highs.
IMO anyway! I’d be interested in your further thoughts!
Edit: one further thought, we could have had a show that was exclusively about the Adam and Lilith plot line(fruit of life descendants vs fruit of knowledge descents fighting over a planet they both landed on) - that would be cool in its own right, if a little lacking in meaning. We could also have had a show entirely about the human-scale machinations, of Seele, Nerv, Gehrin, Marduk, and other groups, seeking to bring about Instrumentality in different ways for different end goals - that would have also been cool in its own right. And finally we could have had a show about the challenges of one boy trying to find realization in a world that sometimes doesn’t care about his struggles. What we actually got was 95% of each of these shows, all in one! That’s part of why, for me atleast, I can rave about the show, compared with the vast sea of “meh” out there before and since.