I’m not necessarily talking about moment-to-moment gameplay or mechanics (though I could see some interesting points being made about, for example, RTS gameplay or RPG character building influence how you approached “strategy” in your own life).
What I’m trying to get at are the games you felt really had something to say.
For example, while I’m by no means the biggest fan (only ever played 2 and V), playing MGS V recently (and catching up on the background a bit) has created this sense in me, and I wondered where else one might have experienced that from vidya
Same, IW was gimped due to the consoles
I credit much of my frugality to my lifelong obsession with MMOs, especially early ones where the only way to get anything was to put in the hours. Being forced to grind zeny for hours so I could afford a new item really put into perspective how money is, on many levels, simply a representation of a chunk of the finite amount of time you get here on earth.
I like it, but it falls into that "corporations and government bad, NGOs good" trap that a lot off similar media falls into. It never really stops to consider that NGOs and their employees have similar incentives to continue to justify their existence and are therefore vulnerable to subversion in the same ways corporations and governments are.
If you work for an NGO advocating for solving a problem, do you really want that problem to be solved if doing so means the doors close and you lose your job?
A lot of that was present in MGS5, but since you are playing as the super cool leader of that group you still end up mostly not seeing the full brunt of how bad it can be.
Playing as a super cool leader till you realized you're just a pawn for shadow organizations, which is pretty realistic.
Yeah, despite not playing 1,3, or 4 myself yet (plan to eventually) I feel confident saying that each game had a real message (and perhaps even more than one) which the game was used to convey. And the way V “wraps everything up” is just groundbreaking imo.
Kojima is truly the first strand-type artist.
MGS3 was the best of the bunch by far.
Metal Gear Solid could arguably be considered libertarian up until Peace Walker, where it goes full commie.
I personally think Shadow of the Colossus is the single best argument for video games as a legitimate art form. Ironically, the near-complete absence of such games from the marketplace is probably the best argument against games as art.
Strangely enough, I rarely play narrative-driven games at this point in my life. I find virtually all video game writing to be insufferably terrible, and this includes almost every game that is widely considered “well-written”.
Well written games are extremely rare, even before the modern dearth of them.
How many games are there out there that can really claim to be on the same level as something like Planescape Torment?
Barely any. Cannot even think of one in recent memory.
90% of “well written games” are Reddit-tier cringe garbage.
Other than that nitpick, I 100% agree with you. I liked Eternal Darkness' story. I like the timeless themes in the Zelda series (prior to BotW at least). Early Square games were simple but decent. The Resident Evil stories were fun B-movie schlock. Pretty much every other story in every other game that I've played is something that I tolerate, not something that I enjoy.
Just give me, "there's something evil coming out of the teleporters" or "the princess has been kidnapped" and I'm on it. Anything more is unnecessary distraction.
I once saw somebody describe FNV as "the best game ever made trapped inside the worst game ever made" and that stuck with me as a really good way to explain it.
Skyrim. And if you want to go older Arc the Lad and Streets of Rage
I was literally just thinking last night how I need to finally play the Arc games. I believe I'll take your comment as a sign and give them a try.
Hmm tricky, I'd need to split it between two games for a certain reasons:
Nier Automata, it's complex story, different endings with legendary ost was something extremely new to me
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, specifically it's multiplayer. It gave an advantage to people that could read players, get inside their heads and anticipate what they may do next along with hiding your own intentions. It transferred to other games which is when you notice just how tunnel visioned and herd like a lot players are in games.
Nice to see the first multiplayer answer, and a really interesting point. I remember quite enjoying that experience, where like you say it was far more based on getting in the heads of the other players. It felt like as the series went on the multiplayer became far more “CoD like” and “play to win” with some real OP shit getting unlocked only after sinking ages into the mode, though I basically dropped the series altogether after 4
Yeah I feel like revelations IMPROVED the multiplayer since you go rewarded for being more patient and creative like quicker and more points for kills if you're not detected.
Then 3 introduced the worst mechanic, animus hack, a kill streak perk that allowed you to kill ANY player for 100 points instantly, it made games awful overnight and black flag didn't fix this so multiplayer died with that game as not bothering to mention Unity.
Kreia has some great quotes.
Also Deus Ex
The second kotor had flaws but Kreia has some great quotes.
KotOR (especially 2, which I played first) took Star Wars from a kind of series of “bubbles connected by plot threads” (how I saw the movies) to being able to see the various bits of media as “slices” taken out of a “real” universe, which I always loved it for - everything seemed more grounded
Kreia is one of the best-written Star Wars charachters in any medium, and the one that really shows off what's possible with a made-up group of people that amount to space wizards with laser swords.
Valkorian is probably another, if only for the sheer ham the man brings to the table that you can't help but take seriously. He's one of the few charachters who could seriously utter the words 'I am a God' and you can't help but nod in agreement.
I still can think back to the experience of walking out of the castle as an “adult” in OoT. It’s such a visceral game, yet it manages so much through basically “subtext”.
Great answer - Zelda games are definitely a kind of magic, and like any great story can really ignite your imagination
Unironically, Telltale's The Walking Dead
While it's on rails and your choice don't actually matter to the story, what they are in fact is a personality test in disguise. People do make choices not to be perceived a certain way, but on the superficial circumstances; they're not hacking the test itself.
In Season 1, Telltale actually put a lot of work into it. For instance there's some dialogs with at least six different versions for Kenny (I think the max is 12). Some vary just by whether he adds "pal" or not. You can really see how people can form two completely different views on the same character based on their own moral views and choices.
In Season 2, Woketale created a propaganda test. They tell you directly and repeat over and over that Jane is an amazing woman and Kenny is a psycho, while judging them by their actions it's the complete opposite. I've seen people play this game, get to the end, choose Jane, and have zero awareness that they've sided with a psychopath. When explaining why they repeat verbatim what the game told them to believe despite evidence to the contrary.
I'm interested in those actions and have no interest in playing it. Care to elaborate?
The first real choice in the first game is between saving a kid or saving an adult. Either way the adult dies and you leave with the kid and his family, so it has no effect at all on the plot but it does effect your relationships. Most significant choices are like this, but some temporarily also alter subplots. I chose the kid because the adult should have known better and if you do this the father warms to you, otherwise he blames you for not trying to help.
Lots of morally ambiguous choices, like when trapped with somebody that's 99% going to turn into a zombie and kill everybody do you kill them to prevent that or hope for the miracle?
What's great in the first game is that each NPC character has well-defined personality traits and they react to your choices like that person actually would.
Second game was written by woke idiots who put zero effort in and is only unintentionally a litmus test for whether you are a blind NPC or have critical thought.
I'm sure the correct choice would be the preventive killing, right?
Or it is the stupid option?
Killing to prevent them turning into a zombie is the smart, pragmatic choice but in the game situation it's also murder of a person who could still be saved.
That's why the first game is such an interesting personality test. The game plot plays out the same so there's no correct or wrong choice. But it does show you how your choices are perceived by the other characters.
I highly doubt I will ever be as shocked when we lost Chrono in Chrono Trigger. It shows how stuff just can go away, not expecting it so you better cherish that which you have today... Or revive it, lmao.
Other than that probably morrowind, a game I still measure a lot of other first person rpgs, I find a lot of lacking compared of morrowind. It was also the first time I learned about modding, adding boobs to games was mind blowing as a horny teen, later finding the cool vampire mods and others. Aside from that the freedom of it was just amazing, I was hlown away by the amount of content this one game had, you could go anywhere, even beat the game without really taking on the main quest. Guilds also actually felt like guilds, not extra storylines.
Mega Man. Not for the games themselves (which I still love), but because they inspired The Protomen to make a rock opera that becomes more real by the day. This isn't a joke.
How people will rally around a hero to save them from an oppressive government, but not risk a thing to support him
Literally begging a single person to even raise their voice in support, only to realize people don't want a hero. They just want someone to martyrize and throw hopes at
Those same people demanding the man calling them on their cowardice be killed, then wondering why anyone would care about a hero who failed
How pure and noble intentions of helping man can be corrupted instantly by men with ambition and desire
Most Relevantly, how one man was able to create a media narrative and frenzy to bin the blame for his own crime on someone else, knowing full well the system will do the right thing and find that other man innocent. And then use that ruling to convince people to overthrow the government and police since it won't "protect them"
And how your acts of defiance are planned for, and will be used to radicalize and unleash a stronger police state in response
I'm sure I don't need to explain how those are constantly relevant around these parts, but that's not even getting into the themes. Such as "sometimes people deserve their own oppression and suffering" which helped me finally come to terms with my falling out of love with Psychology and Therapy and why I needed to leave it.
More "on topic" I would go with Nier Gestalt (Automata newfags get out). Simply because its a game that constantly positions you as doing the right thing for you with good and altruistic ideas, and everytime those actions make the world a worse place. Every attempt you make to help ruins the world a little more, and the end of the game slaps you in the face with the idea of "if you had just stayed home and done nothing, your daughter would have been happier that way" instead of going on a grand adventure to try and cure her.
Not to mention the constantly little moral questions left without answers. Like "who is responsible for ending the cycle of revenge?" Or "does a mother have a right to happiness, even at the expense of her children?" Or even "Do the rules exist to bind you, or do they exist so that you may know your freedoms?"
Its a shame that Automata has almost certainly ruined the franchise, as Drakengard 1/3 and Nier Gestalt are basically the pinnacle of cult masterpieces and now Yoko Taro has a legion of businessmen and ass kissers lined up to make him churn out more Automata tier money printers.
Just wanted to circle back around to this post because I randomly clicked on the links to check them out, and ended listening to a bunch of the Protomen songs.... and that stuff is awesome.
Thanks for the recommendation, it's like Daft Punk + Queen + Streets of Fire OST all rolled into one. Awesome stuff.
Yeah they are absolutely great. Shame they've been slacking on Part 3 for over a decade.
If you missed it, they have an entire album covering 80s songs and many of them end up better than the original, imo. Worth checking as well.
MGS (the original) was the only game I remember playing growing up that had any sort of message.
Gaming in general had a massive impact on me, because I wanted to learn how to make the games; and it was one of the motivations that drove me to become a professional programmer (even though I've never actually developed a game outside of little toy projects).
I like the message of the Red Dead Series, particularly Red Dead Redemption 2, to be loyal to what matters (that's a word for word Arthur Morgan quote).
I still haven’t had a chance to play 2 yet, but Revolver and to a slightly lesser extent Redemption were definitely great experiences. I hear 2 really leaned into the “life in the wild-west” that 1 had the bones of, which is appealing. The ending of 1 was a powerful moment.
It’s on my list!
It's a great game. The story is S tier. If I were you I'd bump it up the queue.
You have to protect a feminist protest. 0/10.
My fucking god, you actually got me to sign in to respond to this. That's some SSS-grade shitfaggotry.
Anyway:
Out of a 100+ hour game, this is a tiny sidequest that is over in about five minutes.
The whole time you're driving the suffragette wagon, Arthur is poking fun at how absurd the whole notion is when people have real problems out in the west.
Some NPC townies ALSO take offense to the rally, and shout it down. You can choose to pick a fight with them, or to just leave.
It's never fucking brought up again, because it's just some stupid shit you did for money in chapter 3 while trying to lie low in a new town.
Oh, and just for fun...
Ex) You can meet an actual feminist protestor in St. Denis. You can agree with her, laugh her off, or insult her. You can beat her up, with fists, melee weapons, or your firearm. You can shoot her. You can set her on fire. You can blow her up. You can drag her behind your horse until she dies. You can tie her up and drop her on train tracks. You can even tie her up and toss her to the gators in the surrounding swamps, who will actually eat her.
So, on whatever turbo fucking retard scale of glue huffing crayon munching you operate your one-track "hurr durr all wxmxn are SATAN" withered bean of a mind on, the game doesn't have a fucking feminist, "pro-women" agenda.
Just a correction here, Arthur says the whole thing almost bothers him to vote (in favour of the feminists). He pokes fun at the absurdity of the event, but still for some bizarre reason favours the feminists. Just like for some bizarre reason he becomes extremely surly with a former slave owner, because for some equally bizarre reason -- despite being back in late 19th century -- he believes in racial equality?
The game is a technical masterpiece, but it's littered with jarring anachronisms pulled directly from modern day Left-wing belief systems. Arthur -- in many cases -- acts like a vassal for their talking points, and players are beholden to those same talking points. Such as constantly praising Sadie as the "bravest" of them all (and for some other bizarre reason, Sadie -- who was once a housewife -- somehow takes over the gang while the main leaders are trapped on an island).
If the game had stayed true to its time period like the originals, it would have been a 10/10 masterpiece. And while Imp singled out the feminist quest -- which rubbed me in all the wrong ways since you can't skip it, or disrupt it in any way -- all the other small elements of Lefty-talking points seeping into the game made it highly despised in my view. Especially after the 20% story mark or whatnot where almost everything out of everybody's mouth regarding Whites is disparaging.
I love the mechanics, but I will never play that game's story again.
Friend, I think you sort of missed the forest for the trees, here.
Remember that Arthur has spent his entire life as an outlaw with a heart of...say, tarnished silver. His big concerns, at the stage of his life where the story takes place, are the disappearance of a place in the world for him and his family (the gang), the massive expansion of the power of the federal government, and his fears of losing his freedom and being locked away.
He thinks women voting is weird, but he ends up tacitly supporting those specific women because he ends up convinced they are trying to get their own "freedom". He gets angry at the former slave owner not because "muh negro rights", but because the man's entire fortune was based around robbing people of their freedom, and because the man is trapped in this rose-tinted vision of the past. He feels both disgust and pity for the man, but it's never because "muh racismus"; it's always because "slavery in general bad", which I don't think is a hot take.
Yeah, Sadie is...weird. On the one hand, her story comes off, at surface level, as very "yas kween slay" girl power fuck-nuggetry.
On the other hand, however, if you take the time to engage with the gang in between story missions and watch the (I think literal) hundreds of small storylets and interactions that play out in the camp, you actually see her go from near catatonic rape victim to asking for a gun and training on how to use it, to being one of the regular gun hands and guards for the camp, to slowly edging away form the gang as things start to fall apart later on.
It's absolutely the game's fault that this shit appears to come out of left field; if you don't watch Sadie's story play out, her sudden shifts seem like they're pulled out of someone's ass. But they do justify her involvement, and they never have her do the usual "small woman defeats big, burly men using spin kicks" bullshit you generally see in "girl power" moments. She just has her own heroic adventures and gains her own levels, all without Arthur's direct involvement.
I've got a 100% save file at this point; can you give me a point in the main plot about this? Because, outside of one or two interactions with Lenny early on, I cannot for the life of me recall any "DAE hate da hwites?" bullshit. And I've been through the game thrice to see the differences in character interactions between max, mid, and min honor.
It's a nuance for a character who was depicted as simple. There was never a moment in the game or in the story that explained why Arthur was fond of blacks in a time where everyone else was not. Nor did they ever explain why Arthur was fond of the Indians when everyone else was not. He just was. "Muh freedom" excuse doesn't hold water, because there are plenty of people in the real world who may share similar values to people they don't like, but don't magically side with those people over those similar values. I'm sure there are plenty of people who could find things in common with the sand pests invading the U.K., at the moment, but it won't mean that they're going to defend them or befriend them.
Just like in real life, there are plenty of criminals in prison who do not automatically see eye-to-eye with other races in the prison system just because they're in prison together and don't want to be there. The opposite is true, and that was the jarring part about Arthur in the game. There was nothing grounded about his depiction, especially during that era.
No it still comes out of left field. I played through and watched many/most(?) of the gang's little interactions, but nothing really made sense as to why she went from catatonic to "just as good a shot as the boys". She's stand-offish and curt with Arthur any time you tried talking or interacting with her before her side-story pops up, but the transition from slowly doing things around the camp to then arguing with the butcher that she wasn't going to do food prep because she did "equal" work to her husband at their homestead was outright eye-roll worthy. There was no equality back then because men had to build and hunt, and ranch cattle, and women had to tend to things they could physically do.
Her entire archetype and portrayal was all wrong. Even as she came out of her shell, taking charge of the gang still made no sense, and you can basically count on a hand how many notable female outlaws were around back then. Her being the one to mastermind and lead the breakout of Marston also made no sense; I could understand Dutch's part of the story, but having Sadie come up with that made no sense. They could have told her story about coming into her own and separating from the gang without the feminist angling, even though -- to your point -- she wasn't doing kung-fu on the bad guys like most female characters these days.
Oh yeah definitely, it goes in hard once you get to the two rival families. Every other reference out of the main character's mouths is "rednecks", "inbreds", "hillbillies", and all other kind of invectives. It's also apparent when you get to Saint Denis, and the guy in the mansion and others are constantly putting down whites (to be fair they also disparage Indians, but when done so Arthur kicks the one guy out of the party for being a bigot, which makes no sense during that time period).
Also the entire side/main story of Arthur helping the Indians is about how terrible the "White man" is. They try to balance it by saying the chief's son is consumed with rage and that rage is bad, but never once do they disparage the other races as much as they talk down on the whites. The only "racist" in the gang is Micah, and he's obviously treated as the main villain.
The problem, however, is that today's generation has been so coached to overlook certain tropes and sympathise with other tropes, that people are now programmed to defend Left-wing subversion because it's all this generation knows. When pointed out, people will continue to defend it because they've been taught to by every single major media outlet and social media platform.
Here's something for ya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex10r7R3NcY&list=PL5s_NMmWpCmnBz0SyLcRhfy0q9Orx0H59&index=4
Total War taught me to go with the army you've got; not the army you wish you had.
X-COM taught me to manage risk.
Probably the Baldur's Gate games given how rich they were and how many years I've spent replaying them. I couldn't for the life of me tell you how they shaped my worldview though. Maybe a more acute attunement to the nuances of good and evil and the importance of still starkly identifying it with strong moral conviction? Probably not though.
Tie Fighter was an eye opener in so many ways, to the point to where I still come up with new thoughts and insights derived from bits and pieces of the overall experience.
The game was remarkably subtle without trying to press any particular idea or point very hard, just showing you a fairly neutral and balanced canvas of what an authoritative regime like the Empire might be like from the inside. Both the good and the bad, as well as the sometimes hilariously inept.
Admittedly, twas still only a small window into the overall possibilities for how heinous and pathetically wretched an authoritative power might be in reality.
Werewolf: the Apocalypse.
I didn't just play it. And I didn't just run it. For a year, I had to kind of look at the world through a lens that assumed the Triat was real, for reasons I don't want to go into in public here. That was ... interesting, and eye-opening. Haven't touched any of the books in a long time (my collection is one of two things to have survived the past 30 years with me), but I still ... see things in a certain light from time to time.
Morrigan's ending to Dragon Age: Origins was babby's first "there is a third option" for me and it led to a lifelong fascination with collaborative storytelling and love of TTRPGs, where there's always a third option.
I fundamentally do not comprehend suicide. I don't sympathize with people who attempt it, I don't get it at an atomic level. I generally think heroic sacrifices in games are kinda bullshit (see DA:O above). Spec Ops: The Line created a situation where I ended up choosing "suicide" as my first ending because I (the player) was afraid of what I (the character) would do if I weren't stopped. I know suicidal people don't think like that, but it was neat that the game maneuvered me to that conclusion.
That said, the suicide ending was the worst one. The disassociation one was top notch. Welcome to Dubai.
Probably Final Fantasy Tactics. Rented it on a whim as a kid, I was not prepared for the mature themes and story.
Ultima
I have a list of games I like to play every year. I haven't done that since starting my masters degree because of my schedule and that most of my consoles are on the other side of the country.
However, the game that has affected me the most is a level editor. The ability to make levels and understand things like light, flow, weenies and movement have become something important in my life. I have talked with architects and engineers at a professional level with my level editing knowledge. I have looked at the night and shadows in awe of their beauty because of how they were used in the original Unreal. Since I design themed Experiences now, those same level editors show up as a way for me to test ideas or show off designs.
So, level editors have changed my life the most.
The game that shaped me the most personality wise was probably Fallout 2. It was the first huge rpg I’d ever played as a kid and it got me into story-driven rpgs. The humor and general tone really spoke to me, and I was very disappointed it was lacking in fallout 3.
None.
The more I've reflected on them, even the games I love, none of them changed my outlook on anything. Then again, I've been playing games since Sopwith and Street Rod, so I've seen the evolution from text-based adventures, to a litany of Breakout clones, all the way up through the 3D era.
I loved some mechanics, and some modes, and thought some stories were good, but none of them changed how I thought about the world.
Some part of me wants to say Metal Gear Solid 1 or the original Baldur's Gate, but it was more certain segments that stood out in those games rather than the sum of all the parts. Baldur's Gate story was really, really basic, but presented really well. It was groundbreaking at the time because of the quality of its design.
I've always loved Final Fantasy VI's characters and story, but none of that changed my outlook on life.
The reason for this is because games have really generic storylines, and usually really basic character archetypes. Their outcomes are usually predictable or not very profound when it comes to some greater world view, and oftentimes it's because the writers themselves are young or inexperienced when it comes to tackling life's more intricate challenges.
The original Deus Ex had some great prophetic notions about where the world end up, but at the time of its release it just seemed like sci-fi conspiracies. Whenever I re-watch clips of the things they discussed in the game you can easily see to how it's all unfolding in the real world, but it's more a reinforcement of current beliefs rather than something that reshaped my thoughts at the time.
And today's games are so filled to the brim with sociopolitical jargon that it's impossible to find redeeming or poignant elements in most titles made within the last decade.
I guess this is because we still don't have any games that puts forward notions or concepts that we oftentimes find in novels or films, like The Seventh Seal, The Silence of the Lambs, Ides of March, The Keep, Brave New World, or I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream (though there is a game based on the story, it's really not the same thing).
Profundity is still lacking significantly in games when it comes to tying interesting gameplay mechanics to deeper notions about life, existence, or the universe.
Interesting points all around, and it’s commendable you didn’t just pick any old answer but searched for these insights instead.
It seems almost like (and this is just an idea that came to mind reading yours and others comments just now) because of how basic most video game stories are, even a simple, but well executed twist can increase the impact of what might otherwise have been a relatively basic story by magnitudes. Games like Bioshock, Black Ops, KotOR, even the Metal Gear games, a lot of their staying power seems to boil down to the “big reveal”. Seems like the notion of the “unreliable narrator” comes into it as well.
In terms of integrating gameplay “logic”, story “logic”, and the deeper profundity felt when zooming out and looking in from the outside, I found Destiny managed to consistently “blow my mind” in the early years of the series. That and MGS V stand out to me as exemplars in this regard. Have you played either?
That's a really good point. It's because they play on subverting your expectations (and not subversion in the way Leftists do it, but in terms in what you thought or wanted for the characters/story direction).
I really liked Black Ops 3 because of this. I thought the twists were cool and it had some interesting commentary about the existential crisis of foregoing the physical plane to live entirely within a dream world constructed by a rogue AI. It's not too dissimilar from the film The Congress or The Matrix. I thought Black Ops 3 was interesting because of its unapologetic nihilism, but would say it's profound or life-changing? Not really. It's just a less depraved and a more Call-of-Duty'fied version of Burrough's Naked Lunch.
I'm curious, why is that? I could never get through Destiny. The gameplay was woefully dull to me, and even though I liked the art-style for some of the guns, the gunplay itself was just way too boring to hold my interest, and it didn't have any other loops deep enough to compensate for the dull gunplay.
I watched playthroughs of Metal Gear Solid V, and thought it touched on some interesting concepts regarding idea collations through language, and the disruption of those ideological foundations by erasing the conduit of language. It would have been interesting to see that play out to its logical conclusion (I guess in some ways Kojima did dabble in societal fracture in Death Stranding, but there was no language barrier, just a physical barrier that kept people apart).
It reminded me of an old short film about a wide-spread erosion perpetuated by acid rain that prevented people from speaking or utilising tools like paper or notes, and so they had to use people's flesh as a way to send messages, carving notes in the flesh. It was disturbing, but reminded me a bit of Skull Face's goals in Metal Gear Solid V.
You know, I’ve not played BO3, seen The Congress, nor read Naked Lunch, but you make them sound interesting enough to check out should the chance arise. I was just yesterday thinking about the “main theme” of Mass Effect, the struggle of integrating synthetic and organic life, it’s definitely an interesting arena of thought, becoming more and more relevant every day as we (likely?) approach the so-called “Technological Singularity”.
Regarding Destiny (and Bungie in general), funnily enough, it’s just quite the love/hate relationship. Of its ~10 years so far I only really played for 3 of them. But anyway, let my try to explain what I mean with some examples
First of all I thought they did an amazing job of creating an actual universe. Nothing was (or atleast, nothing ever felt like) it was just set dressing or a prop. I struggle to put it into words, but taken as a whole, the world presented in Destiny felt real, which I know sounds absurd. But in the same sense that a religion has the power to present something both “fantastical” yet also “realer than reality”, I see parallels with things like Q-Anon (as a worldview) and “turbo-fandoms” (Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, etc at their peaks). It’s like a world is presented to you which both contains deep mysteries to ponder while also offering “answers” about “real life”.
Ok sorry for that semi-esoteric ramble, let me get back to specifics for a couple “harder” examples of this:
Res-ing after death / “darkness zones”:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/no-rez-for-the-weary
As you likely know, normally you can resurrect a couple seconds after dying in most cases. Even this basic gameplay mechanic is explained because your character, the Guardian, literally starts the game as a long dead individual brought back to life by the “Light” to fight the “Darkness”, interestingly enough, with all memories of your past life wiped away. A blank slate. Well, in particularly “dark” places (boss zones, raids, etc) you can’t res, and if you die you go back to the checkpoint just as you entered the “darkness zone”. “Canonically”, the player character never dies in a Darkness Zone. That short story linked above provides a really interesting “first hand” look at one of these places from the perspective of a Ghost (the “Spark of Light” released from the “Traveller” which resurrects you in the first place - each Guardian having their own Ghost, and without which they lose their connection to the Light)
Which brings me to the next idea, ambiguity and collective storytelling (the community “filling in the blanks” and drawing threads between “disconnected” ideas). I thought they managed to do an amazing job of creating a world which asked questions while just hinting at answers. When this is done poorly it feels flimsy, and retrospectively-applied, but at least my feeling was that there was this grand plan, this fully formed universe being slowly unveiled. Which frankly has always been Bungie’s biggest strength. Marathon, to Halo, culminating in Destiny. Not necessarily achieving that, but definitely creating the feeling, especially if you ever observed or took part in the communities of the games. The grimoire, despite being “the worst possible way to do story telling”, has stuck with me the most so ill just link a couple entries I think you might find interesting:
why does anything exist?
ambiguity of Light and Dark
philosophy of the Darkness (i linked to the first entry but there are about 10 there in a series)
I could probably ramble on all day so I’ll just cut myself off there lol
The part about the three queens reminds me of a Thomas Henry Huxley quote... "Mr. Darwin endeavours to explain the exact order of organic nature which exists; not the mere fact that there is some order"
This also reminds me of the short story "Supreme Happiness" from the Zhuangzi collection, a snippet of it was used in the game the Path of Neo, but this section always stood out...
When Zhuangzi went to Chu, he saw an old skull, all dry and parched. He poked it with his carriage whip and then asked, “Sir, were you greedy for life and forgetful of reason and so came to this? Was your state overthrown, and did you bow beneath the ax and so came to this? Did you do some evil deed, and were you ashamed to bring disgrace on your parents and family and so came to this? Was it through the pangs of cold and hunger that you came to this? Or did your springs and autumns pile up until they brought you to this?” When he had finished speaking, he dragged the skull over and, using it for a pillow, lay down to sleep.
In the middle of the night, the skull came to him in a dream and said, “You chatter like a rhetorician, and all your words betray the entanglements of a living man. The dead know nothing of these! Would you like to hear a lecture on the dead?” “Indeed,” said Zhuangzi. The skull said, “Among the dead, there are no rulers above, no subjects below, and no chores of the four seasons. With nothing to do, our springs and autumns are as endless as heaven and earth. A king facing south on his throne could have no more happiness than this!” Zhuangzi couldn’t believe this and said, “If I got the Arbiter of Fate to give you a body again, make you some bones and flesh, return you to your parents and family and your old home and friends, you would want that, wouldn’t you?” The skull frowned severely, wrinkling up its brow. “Why would I throw away more happiness than that of a king on a throne and take on the troubles of a human being again?”
BO3 might be worth it if you have a few friends. The four-player co-op was the real highlight. As for The Congress? It's a better concept than its execution. The third act can be heartbreaking when thinking about it in the larger context of what a world like that means in the grand scheme of things, but getting there can be... tedious.
As for Naked Lunch? Both the book and novel can easily make you lose your literal lunch. Once again, both are better in concept than execution. Naked Lunch the movie is a visual spectacle thanks to David Cronenberg's crew that brought to life some amazing cinematography and special effects, but it's thoroughly disturbing from top to bottom.
Yeah, I can understand that. When a world feels "real" enough it can make it much easier to convey more abstract concepts you might otherwise miss in the mundane ins and outs of real-life.
I see. So it was the mystery of something greater and the concepts associated with this greater mystery that was an alluring concept for you, as presented through the world/universe of Destiny?
That piece comes from one of the excellent plot threads of the game, which takes Darwinian “Survival of the Fittest” / “red in tooth and claw nature” to its absurd, space-magic conclusion - known as the “Sword Logic”. In an almost American Gods sense, an entire race’s belief in this “logic”, and their dedicated practice to it twists them into an almost unfathomable threat, existing over billions of years in an unending crusade of murder and growing stronger. And this is just one of the 5 or so enemy factions, each one almost a distillation of a storytelling genre or set of tropes into an utterly interesting and appealing force. There’s the “robots” who seemingly exist outside of time, tending the timelines like gardeners, but allowing only those timelines which lead to the extermination of every race but them to flourish. There’s the fallen race of “space pirates”, long ago uplifted by the Traveler who desperately chase after it, coming to sol and putting themselves in conflict with “us”. There’s the Roman Legion of space turtles, who despite their overwhelming military force seem to be running from something.
Ya know? It’s not like you’re just fighting blue guys in level 1 and green guys in level 3, it’s like an actual world of agents in situations, just one that exists within its own set of logical (“space magic”) confines.
Like you say, it’s amazing what kind of ideas can be conveyed to us with a solid foundation beneath them, to build on.
Have you ever heard of the Game of Life in mathematics/compsci? How everything in existence can ultimately come about through a “zero dimensional starting condition” playing out following simple rules? Part 2 and 3 of that “Unveiling” book bring that into the Destiny universe as the ultimate metaphor for what kicked it all off. Our universe, all of existence, is the spillover from the overturned gameboard of a metaphysical Game of Life played by the ontological principles known as the Gardener and the Winnower.
Jumping around, in a sense, the planets themselves are “conscious” “entities” - loops of dark matter, in their cosmic dance tugged by planets and solar systems and the eventual life on that planet - which “woke up”:
I am.
I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I am I.
At first this is all the loop of dust can calculate. It is the hardest thing in the universe for the dust to make a loop at all, because, like a gust of wind or a river, it was only meant to move one way. For a mind to function, the end of one thought must alter the beginning of the next: so, like rivers, like wind, the Nine could not have minds until they could make loops.
For a game to be able to take something like that, the idea that “planets” have emotions, and senses, and existences distinct from their mere soulless physicality is something that dates back into pre-history right? Mars, Jupiter, we’ve always thought this way. And here comes a video game, which can take all that, and synthesize it into something which not only “makes sense” but which is actually impactful on the game in a variety of ways (mainly story/world building but these entities have been known to aid Guardians with various gifts)
the Demiurge of the Guardian is
So yeah, I think that’s all to say that the reason it had such an impact was because of its apparent depth breadth and width, wholistic design (everything is there for a reason and if you wonder about it there’s probably some extra information or characterization available for you to find), and also knowing where to leave the more concrete and standard approaches to “world building” for more “lore/mystery building”, if that makes any sense.
I’ve never been one for Cronenberg movies, so maybe I’ll skip that lol.
Zhuangzu? Or zhuangzi? Or was he a butterfly?
Interesting.
You made Destiny sound far more profound than any gameplay trailer, video, walkthrough, or even my own play sessions managed to pull from that property.
That's a fascinating way upon which to build a universe and expand from there. Especially this part....
Now that's something interesting because in many ways, Earth does seem to be a conscious entity, in the way in which it breathes life and sustains life. I'm always drawn back to Tesla's experiments with using the natural Earth's wave functions as an energy source to power devices. It's a shame that was never explored more.
The structure of its universe definitely sounds fascinating, it's a shame that the game itself didn't lend mechanics to the experience that were/are as philosophical as its worldbuilding and lore.
He's an acquired taste, for sure. Some of his films I absolutely adore, like eXistenZ The Fly, and Scanners (which is one of my all-time favourite films from any genre)... others... not so much.
Is that Jon Hamm narrating?!
Yep, from one of my all time favorite pieces of media Legion - I strongly recommend it to almost everyone. Show runner was Noah Hawley if you’ve heard of him before (the Fargo show)
“It’s a shame” is a statement which applies almost fractally to that game. Unfathomable potential squandered on greedy monetization and lack of in-game narrative. Like I mentioned I only played actively for a couple years and have since had to abandon it due to their utter disregard for the fans.
Y’know, I actually liked The Fly, and I have memories of that movie eXistenZ seared into my mind (the soup scene) but I didn’t realize those were Cronenberg films. Maybe I can stomach more of his work than I realized lol
Hmm, never heard of that might need to put it on the list to check out
I won't say they've been as influential as books, but there are a few games that have really struck me.
Halo reach for example: no matter what you have to say about the game, the final mission is incredible and the line "negative sir; I have the gun" and followup sequence where you continue to fight despite knowing you will not survive, but that in your sacrifice you are enabling others to continue - especially in context with what you're setting up, knowing that the ship you are saving carries the guy who goes on to save humanity - it's a powerful example of the phrase "societies become great when men plant trees that they will never sit in the shade of".
Another mention to nier automata, but since that poster didn't mention the first game - absolutely play the first game, before the sequel.
Tales of Symphonia
Runescape (+Old School)
As a kid, I thought Star Wars was stuffy and self righteous writing like a second Star Trek, inaccessable goop. Then I discovered it was a deeply woven action pulp series through the Battlefront series (PS2).
I loved Star Wars. I'd think about how two jedi could fight in my own mind, I'd draw out meaning from little scenes, I saw RLM say why OT was so much better than PT, rewrites of PT from perspectives of love, YTPs of it were sprinkled in my other viewings, it wasn't an obsession (especially on the merch side I think the most I own is one poster of hoth and a single darth maul toy from when I was a kid), when Prequel Memes became a thing my friends and I would share a few and we all raced out to see Force Awakens during finals.
I wasn't a stranger to bad videogames, I wasn't a stranger to gay movies. But it was the way that Star Wars became bad very fast that signaled to me media isn't what I thought media was supposed to be. It was a deliberate destruction and replacement, a shot fired across fans faces casualties be damned to signal a new era.
Last Jedi was the last Star War I consumed, maybe Dice Battlefront I or II but it was a very quick awakening.
“There’s only one (or two, or three) Superman / Matrix / Alien / Indian Jones movies” - I didn’t really understand why people cared so much when I was younger, but when you see it happening right in front of you, and you’ve grown up a bit, it really is disgusting what gets done to some of these great stories like you mention - but at least we can draw a line and say “I don’t care how much money you parasites spent for this skin suit, the original story is still ours”
F1 23.
It taught me that there's nothing the enemy won't politicise. Thanks Game Pass Ultimate!
This is a trait you share.
Why do you like racing games so much?
Also cmon bruh hit me with the real answer
They're harder for women to ruin. Also, big fan of cars and racing all my life. But a big part of why I retreated to them heavily recently is that women can't ruin them as much.
Sure, they can add cutscenes with their annoying, screechy voices, and have female AI voices read the tutorial.
But they can't make driving a car a statement of their non-existent superiority. They can't write kill all men all over it like everything else they touch.
They can only shit out propaganda like F1 23's story mode (that a tiny percentage of players have played) and Grid Legends with the female-named AI being faster.
Having said that, they're pushing to ruin IRL motorsports, under Lulu Hamilton's desperation to not be linked with FTX, and they ruined driving movies by casting Brie Larson in the Fast and Furious movie that doesn't exist...at least in my head.
Last racing game I played was NFS Shift - when the genre changed from having the player character be basically Stig in a car to having the player character be an up-and-coming cholo in the barrio (or whatever stupid scenario the recent grad placed on the “story” team came up with) was when I had to check out.
But fr bruh no bussin, which game or series has stuck with you, rattling about in your mind?
I liked Shift, actually. Shift 2 was a shitty Forza clone that was stupidly complicated and just really bad.
Need for Speed really went retarded with Payback, where there was a literal feminist racing crew. Unbound is such colossal crap in mechanics I don't even know if it's woke because I quit really early. The handling reminds me of mobile games.
Although I shouldn't be surprised. One of the handheld ports of Need for Speed had a plot where, honest to God...you killed your own brother to simp for a girl. I think it was Own the City?
Counter Strike Global Offensive made me a lot of money, but I got bored of it and went back to Xbox for good when Forza Motorsport 7 came out. The main push that made me jump ship was the allowing of porn games, which just filled the new releases tab with total shovelware VNs.
I guess it helped me build up my initial investments, because I cashed out most of my items. I learned some market basics, that I built on over pandemic times until I started managing a portfolio of my own.
As for a plot that stuck with me...I honestly don't know. The only plot I really remember from a kind of old game is Black Ops, where you find out Reznov died when you were fleeing the gulag, and he had reprogrammed your brainwashing that you got to make you want to kill the President, so you'd go after the actual targets instead because your brain told you he was there telling you to.
It was the most basic twist ever, but it reminds me of when games with a plot were actually exciting and not just being hit with a pink sledgehammer over and over again.
Part of me is glad Black Ops 4 didn't have a campaign. At least they didn't get to retcon everything to be "a woman did it".
>reznov
Hell ya.
Step one, get the keys
I'm sorry, but I find topics like this super gay. You guys sound like bronies.
If you find meaning and impact on your life from an elective luxury entertainment product, you need to get a life.
Yeah man, books are gay, movies are for fags, and only queers play video games.
All real men get their fulfillment by crying about pozzed influences affecting their video games... wait... that’s just you
https://communities.win/u/Guy_Incognito76/?type=post
I like videogames as much as anyone. But I get fulfillment from my family and things I create, not things I consume.