I’m not necessarily talking about moment-to-moment gameplay or mechanics (though I could see some interesting points being made about, for example, RTS gameplay or RPG character building influence how you approached “strategy” in your own life).
What I’m trying to get at are the games you felt really had something to say.
For example, while I’m by no means the biggest fan (only ever played 2 and V), playing MGS V recently (and catching up on the background a bit) has created this sense in me, and I wondered where else one might have experienced that from vidya
None.
The more I've reflected on them, even the games I love, none of them changed my outlook on anything. Then again, I've been playing games since Sopwith and Street Rod, so I've seen the evolution from text-based adventures, to a litany of Breakout clones, all the way up through the 3D era.
I loved some mechanics, and some modes, and thought some stories were good, but none of them changed how I thought about the world.
Some part of me wants to say Metal Gear Solid 1 or the original Baldur's Gate, but it was more certain segments that stood out in those games rather than the sum of all the parts. Baldur's Gate story was really, really basic, but presented really well. It was groundbreaking at the time because of the quality of its design.
I've always loved Final Fantasy VI's characters and story, but none of that changed my outlook on life.
The reason for this is because games have really generic storylines, and usually really basic character archetypes. Their outcomes are usually predictable or not very profound when it comes to some greater world view, and oftentimes it's because the writers themselves are young or inexperienced when it comes to tackling life's more intricate challenges.
The original Deus Ex had some great prophetic notions about where the world end up, but at the time of its release it just seemed like sci-fi conspiracies. Whenever I re-watch clips of the things they discussed in the game you can easily see to how it's all unfolding in the real world, but it's more a reinforcement of current beliefs rather than something that reshaped my thoughts at the time.
And today's games are so filled to the brim with sociopolitical jargon that it's impossible to find redeeming or poignant elements in most titles made within the last decade.
I guess this is because we still don't have any games that puts forward notions or concepts that we oftentimes find in novels or films, like The Seventh Seal, The Silence of the Lambs, Ides of March, The Keep, Brave New World, or I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream (though there is a game based on the story, it's really not the same thing).
Profundity is still lacking significantly in games when it comes to tying interesting gameplay mechanics to deeper notions about life, existence, or the universe.
Interesting points all around, and it’s commendable you didn’t just pick any old answer but searched for these insights instead.
It seems almost like (and this is just an idea that came to mind reading yours and others comments just now) because of how basic most video game stories are, even a simple, but well executed twist can increase the impact of what might otherwise have been a relatively basic story by magnitudes. Games like Bioshock, Black Ops, KotOR, even the Metal Gear games, a lot of their staying power seems to boil down to the “big reveal”. Seems like the notion of the “unreliable narrator” comes into it as well.
In terms of integrating gameplay “logic”, story “logic”, and the deeper profundity felt when zooming out and looking in from the outside, I found Destiny managed to consistently “blow my mind” in the early years of the series. That and MGS V stand out to me as exemplars in this regard. Have you played either?
That's a really good point. It's because they play on subverting your expectations (and not subversion in the way Leftists do it, but in terms in what you thought or wanted for the characters/story direction).
I really liked Black Ops 3 because of this. I thought the twists were cool and it had some interesting commentary about the existential crisis of foregoing the physical plane to live entirely within a dream world constructed by a rogue AI. It's not too dissimilar from the film The Congress or The Matrix. I thought Black Ops 3 was interesting because of its unapologetic nihilism, but would say it's profound or life-changing? Not really. It's just a less depraved and a more Call-of-Duty'fied version of Burrough's Naked Lunch.
I'm curious, why is that? I could never get through Destiny. The gameplay was woefully dull to me, and even though I liked the art-style for some of the guns, the gunplay itself was just way too boring to hold my interest, and it didn't have any other loops deep enough to compensate for the dull gunplay.
I watched playthroughs of Metal Gear Solid V, and thought it touched on some interesting concepts regarding idea collations through language, and the disruption of those ideological foundations by erasing the conduit of language. It would have been interesting to see that play out to its logical conclusion (I guess in some ways Kojima did dabble in societal fracture in Death Stranding, but there was no language barrier, just a physical barrier that kept people apart).
It reminded me of an old short film about a wide-spread erosion perpetuated by acid rain that prevented people from speaking or utilising tools like paper or notes, and so they had to use people's flesh as a way to send messages, carving notes in the flesh. It was disturbing, but reminded me a bit of Skull Face's goals in Metal Gear Solid V.
You know, I’ve not played BO3, seen The Congress, nor read Naked Lunch, but you make them sound interesting enough to check out should the chance arise. I was just yesterday thinking about the “main theme” of Mass Effect, the struggle of integrating synthetic and organic life, it’s definitely an interesting arena of thought, becoming more and more relevant every day as we (likely?) approach the so-called “Technological Singularity”.
Regarding Destiny (and Bungie in general), funnily enough, it’s just quite the love/hate relationship. Of its ~10 years so far I only really played for 3 of them. But anyway, let my try to explain what I mean with some examples
First of all I thought they did an amazing job of creating an actual universe. Nothing was (or atleast, nothing ever felt like) it was just set dressing or a prop. I struggle to put it into words, but taken as a whole, the world presented in Destiny felt real, which I know sounds absurd. But in the same sense that a religion has the power to present something both “fantastical” yet also “realer than reality”, I see parallels with things like Q-Anon (as a worldview) and “turbo-fandoms” (Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, etc at their peaks). It’s like a world is presented to you which both contains deep mysteries to ponder while also offering “answers” about “real life”.
Ok sorry for that semi-esoteric ramble, let me get back to specifics for a couple “harder” examples of this:
Res-ing after death / “darkness zones”:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/no-rez-for-the-weary
As you likely know, normally you can resurrect a couple seconds after dying in most cases. Even this basic gameplay mechanic is explained because your character, the Guardian, literally starts the game as a long dead individual brought back to life by the “Light” to fight the “Darkness”, interestingly enough, with all memories of your past life wiped away. A blank slate. Well, in particularly “dark” places (boss zones, raids, etc) you can’t res, and if you die you go back to the checkpoint just as you entered the “darkness zone”. “Canonically”, the player character never dies in a Darkness Zone. That short story linked above provides a really interesting “first hand” look at one of these places from the perspective of a Ghost (the “Spark of Light” released from the “Traveller” which resurrects you in the first place - each Guardian having their own Ghost, and without which they lose their connection to the Light)
Which brings me to the next idea, ambiguity and collective storytelling (the community “filling in the blanks” and drawing threads between “disconnected” ideas). I thought they managed to do an amazing job of creating a world which asked questions while just hinting at answers. When this is done poorly it feels flimsy, and retrospectively-applied, but at least my feeling was that there was this grand plan, this fully formed universe being slowly unveiled. Which frankly has always been Bungie’s biggest strength. Marathon, to Halo, culminating in Destiny. Not necessarily achieving that, but definitely creating the feeling, especially if you ever observed or took part in the communities of the games. The grimoire, despite being “the worst possible way to do story telling”, has stuck with me the most so ill just link a couple entries I think you might find interesting:
why does anything exist?
ambiguity of Light and Dark
philosophy of the Darkness (i linked to the first entry but there are about 10 there in a series)
I could probably ramble on all day so I’ll just cut myself off there lol
The part about the three queens reminds me of a Thomas Henry Huxley quote... "Mr. Darwin endeavours to explain the exact order of organic nature which exists; not the mere fact that there is some order"
This also reminds me of the short story "Supreme Happiness" from the Zhuangzi collection, a snippet of it was used in the game the Path of Neo, but this section always stood out...
When Zhuangzi went to Chu, he saw an old skull, all dry and parched. He poked it with his carriage whip and then asked, “Sir, were you greedy for life and forgetful of reason and so came to this? Was your state overthrown, and did you bow beneath the ax and so came to this? Did you do some evil deed, and were you ashamed to bring disgrace on your parents and family and so came to this? Was it through the pangs of cold and hunger that you came to this? Or did your springs and autumns pile up until they brought you to this?” When he had finished speaking, he dragged the skull over and, using it for a pillow, lay down to sleep.
In the middle of the night, the skull came to him in a dream and said, “You chatter like a rhetorician, and all your words betray the entanglements of a living man. The dead know nothing of these! Would you like to hear a lecture on the dead?” “Indeed,” said Zhuangzi. The skull said, “Among the dead, there are no rulers above, no subjects below, and no chores of the four seasons. With nothing to do, our springs and autumns are as endless as heaven and earth. A king facing south on his throne could have no more happiness than this!” Zhuangzi couldn’t believe this and said, “If I got the Arbiter of Fate to give you a body again, make you some bones and flesh, return you to your parents and family and your old home and friends, you would want that, wouldn’t you?” The skull frowned severely, wrinkling up its brow. “Why would I throw away more happiness than that of a king on a throne and take on the troubles of a human being again?”
BO3 might be worth it if you have a few friends. The four-player co-op was the real highlight. As for The Congress? It's a better concept than its execution. The third act can be heartbreaking when thinking about it in the larger context of what a world like that means in the grand scheme of things, but getting there can be... tedious.
As for Naked Lunch? Both the book and novel can easily make you lose your literal lunch. Once again, both are better in concept than execution. Naked Lunch the movie is a visual spectacle thanks to David Cronenberg's crew that brought to life some amazing cinematography and special effects, but it's thoroughly disturbing from top to bottom.
Yeah, I can understand that. When a world feels "real" enough it can make it much easier to convey more abstract concepts you might otherwise miss in the mundane ins and outs of real-life.
I see. So it was the mystery of something greater and the concepts associated with this greater mystery that was an alluring concept for you, as presented through the world/universe of Destiny?