The whole point of a nation is to serve its people. It's not selfish to ask that the nation we fund (at gunpoint, but that's a separate issue) serve our interests. Anything else is slavery.
Legal immigration is fine...as long as it's in numbers that don't push out Americans, of any class.
I don't want low skilled workers coming here and hurting poor Americans. I don't want higher performing workers coming here and hurting middle class Americans, or Americans trying to reach the middle class.
Some legal immigration of those mentioned - hard-working, honest, pro-America - is fine. But we shouldn't be replacing Americans, and we shouldn't be funding and setting up ethnic enclaves.
I want America to win. But Americans need to win, that's the whole point of America winning.
America must win, so her people can win. We've already done enough - both good and bad - for the rest of the world over the last century. It's (well past) time to focus on Americans!
I don't even think he wants his economic zone to win. He personally wants to win. If he thought the best way to do that would be by moving to China he would.
Where did this dialectic/pilpul of America "winning" (or losing) come from anyway? Did Elon start it or just step into it?
For our nation to succeed, the individuals in our country need to be able to succeed and prosper. That's it. Yes we need a successful economy but life isn't a zero sum game we have to "win." Both Chinese and American companies can invest in AI or whatever boom the techbros are concerned about and we'll be fine.
Where did it come from? It’s literally just civic nationalism. The notion that America is an “idea nation”, wholly separate from and in no way responsible to its heritage or people, is the inevitable end point of civnat faggotry. Elevating “paper Americans” over native citizens, treating the country as a purely economic zone with no valid inherent culture of its. Of course rapacious, rootless elites like Musk view America purely in these opportunistic and self-serving terms. Of course Vivek adopts whatever arguments promote the interests of his co-ethnics and the culture of his own homeland. Civic nationalism is to nationalism as social justice is to justice - an inversion, a perversion, intended to destroy a people.
Not sure where it started, but I bet that's the attack vector for subversives. "You want to Make America Great Again? Then diversity is our strength we need immigration to win!
The more I think about it the scarier their narrative frame sounds. It's more an appeal to emotion than an argument from which policy can be based. When do we know we've won? When we win can we stop winning or do we have to win more? It sounds like progressivism. "We must progress forever. Progress to what? Who knows. We must progress. We must win. We must leave the deplorables and backwards thinkers behind and progress forward. We must leave the losers behind to win. We must be on the right side of history. We must be on the winning team."
Sargon is right. Liberalism inevitably leads to leftism.
When the population is 80% White European again and we're bullying other nations into doing what we want them to while also having prosperity for the lower and middle class populations within our society.
We shouldn't accept any immigrants until we have the space to take in more. We're barely able to handle everyone already here; the Texas grid alone nearly collapsed because of demand during a winter storm. And then there's the water shortages...
Going from hordes of illegal Mexicans and Haitians or hordes of 'legal' Indians is still contributing to the browning of America. Whites built America from a savage frontier sparsely ppopulated by cannibals into the most productive and powerful country ever seen on Earth. The less white America became, the worse it's gotten. These are facts.
Going from hordes of illegal Mexicans and Haitians or hordes of 'legal' Indians is still contributing to the browning of America.
I'd argue the latter is worse. Indians are much more ethnically focused, and thus more subversive. Some Mexicans might not like white people, and might want to keep to their own people, but they're not as active or intentional in their replacement efforts. It's well known Indians love to support Indians, and go about hiring Indians whenever possible. In equal numbers, I think Indians will replace more Americans than Mexicans. Mexicans like Mexicans, but they often want to be left alone. Indians want to conquer.
And even if they weren't, you can still make the nearly exact same argument just on time.
My family has been here from the start, but even if it had only been like five generations...that's still five generations more than some Indian, Chinaman, Mexican...or even Englishman or what have you.
We've been here. We've put in the time, the energy, the labor. Or elites don't just get to replace us, especially while we're forced to fund it. No, fuck off. America first, Americans first. We can let some others in in small numbers, when there's room. But we should at the very least put an almost complete pause on things while we refocus on Americans.
For those who want America to lose for their own person gain, I have no respect, zero.
Cool story faggot, let’s remove all the limiters on IP use then, bet you immediately change your tune when any American company can copy your product and drive down costs.
It’s the logical endpoint of civic nationalism. Anyone who denies an American racial/ethnic identity is inevitably dog walking you to exactly right here. The only reason why they do it is anti-whiteness. Every non-white country is permitted an ethnic identity.
I know many on the right aren't prepared for this conversation, but this is also the end point of capitalism. Capitalism, by its nature, prioritizes the pursuit of money and profit over all else, even over the people. Unrestrained capitalism constantly pushes for lowering costs, exporting jobs to cheaper foreign markets, importing foreign workers to depress wages of everyone, using cheaper ingredients, making cheaper products, building in obsolescence into their products, and selling it for the same amount. This also results in a never ending debt spiral for consumers, who are constantly told they need to buy X, Y, and Z, but also because everything made nowadays is cheap and designed to fail after a certain amount of time, forcing us to continually consume. Capitalism, at the end goal, produces a hollow consumerist culture.
This is why so many right wingers advocate for policies that are a death sentence to their own children, because it makes the GDP and stock market go up. Usury, debt slavery, consumerism, obsolescence, outsourcing, mass immigration, junk food, greater and greater wealth disparity between CEOs and the average worker, it's all a natural consequence of capitalism.
Most of us have been fooled into the benefits of capitalism because of the success of Western civilization, but most of the benefits we associate with capitalism (like free trade and specialization of labor) have existed for thousands of years.
There's a good Stone Choir podcast on this topic, of anyone is interested:
Is it a capitalism problem, or is it a fiat funny money problem? Bonds and savings are dogshit, so everyone piles into the stock market expecting it to "beat inflation". Meanwhile, the government gets more taxes with the increased GDP and corporate profit for the problem it directly created.
With how capitalism works, it necessarily requires usury/interest. Usury concentrates money and power in the hands of bankers. Through the power bankers attain, they keep pushing for policies which concentrate even more money and power in their hands. Fiat money is just another method to do that. So is money printing, and fractional reserve lending and banking.
Like I said, capitalism is the prioritization of money, and the accrual of money, above all else, even above people, truth, honesty, and merit. Capitalism, by its design, devolves in a downward spiral.
Also, the stock market is a scam. The Gamestop fiasco proved that, where regular Joes manipulated the market with Gamestop stocks, so they could make money (the exact same way rich people do), it made the trillionaire hedge funders lose tons of money, and almost immediately the stock markets were frozen, regular people were prevented from buying or selling while rich people could still do so, and previous transactions were nullified.
The only reason people in the West have to earn interest on their money (through a bank account, or the stock market, or some other bullshit medium), is because of inflation, to merely keep pace with their own money losing value in real time. Inflation is caused entirely by bankers, as a means to steal wealth from poor people, and concentrate it in the hands of the already uber rich. The U.S. dollar remained stable for most of its life, until the implementation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 (a central bank), where it's now lost about 99% of its value (or more).
Musk loves to conflate terms - "qualified and highly motivated", "highly skilled and loves America". It's no better than saying diversity is a strength. That's some subversive shit, fuck him and the faggoty e-car he rode in on.
A Nation is more than lines on a map. It's a political demarcation of the territory of a people that are partially restricted from leaving by geography of some kind, of which who share a degree of genetic and cultural relatedness. It's time to start talking about Countries as having a people again.
If Elon wants an economic zone to try and rack the score up on he should come to Australia.
I can agree that there is a place for legal immigration. But mass immigration is no better than illegal immigration. The types of people that are coming is only one aspect of the issue. And arguably, the amount is of a bigger issue than the quality.
And frankly, the idea that the market needs immigrants to function is ludicrous. It doesn't need a slave labour class. If Americans aren't doing certain jobs, maybe it's time to actually examine why that is instead of handwaving it away and declaring it some unexplainable evil or unchangeable status quo.
What's more, you cannot be in favour of tariffs to improve working conditions in America to improve American lives AND support increased immigration that will fill that job market.
The whole point of tariffs is to keep work domestic, and it completely undermines that when instead of outsourcing the work to foreign workers, you instead just bring the foreign workers to a domestic setting. Fuck that. Fuck off. It's not solving the problem.
The thing is, the super pro legal immigration stance is correct on the proper scale. Take a very important and rapidly developing field like AI for instance. 100 geniuses that are at the top of the field will do more to generate progress than 10,000 mid level tech employees, and those geniuses are available in very limited quantities. Okay, have systems in place to fast track people who are proven to be on that level.
If that, and that alone, were the topic of discussion here, I could agree. But they take it way too far. There is no need to import thousands and thousands of pajeets other than to flood the market with cheap labor and depress wages for the native population.
I wasn't speaking on any specific program, just a general sentiment regarding legal immigration. But yeah if there's already a separate program for actual geniuses then the H1B could really be scrapped altogether.
O1s are almost exclusively arts and athletes. They throw in science in some of their application guidance but half the time they forget and just say arts and athletes. I think even the very top tier science and engineering people are far more likely to get to the US on an H1B visa than an O1
Like maybe the only scientists coming in on O1s are Nobel prize winners who want to move before even having a job lined up.
Then the solution isn't to allow in all H1Bs, it's to fix the system already in place.
This is the problem with statists of any variety. They use one much smaller issue to push through a far bigger problem that they support. In this case it's beneficial, intelligent immigrants that could provide big economic benefits, but with it we also need to let in a wave of low-value migrants that can flood the lower and middle economic job markets. Another common example is the push for censorship, most commonly rationalised with "won't someone think of the children".
Statists, totalitarians and authoritarians all love using Motte and Bailey techniques to justify and rationalise why they need to be given more and more power.
I wasn't trying to say that you were, but that this is ultimately the argument Elon will inevitably be relying on to continue allowing H1Bs through, because it's already the existing argument of the establishment.
I was also trying to outline that this circumstance still isn't an excuse for people like Elon, since there's meant to already be a framework that's meant to allow the people he's trying to support through. Because statists love using a broken system to advocate for a bigger and expanded system, and not fixing what is already there.
It's still not worth it, if they don't genuinely love America...and that's really hard to vet. I'm generally in agreement with you, but even that sort of thing is very dangerous.
Look at post-WW2. We imported all the Marxists, communists, and socialists to do rocketry, nuclear, and the like. I'm not sure what the numbers were, but certainly much, much less than our current immigration numbers. And they completely fucked the country, perhaps irreparably so.
A relatively small number of subversives can do massive cultural damage so, if we are going to try to poach the geniuses, we have to select for more than just skill, intelligence, and accomplishment. Even that's not enough. That said, considering we have so many Americans who hate America nowadays, grabbing a few geniuses is still probably a net gain in the current scheme of things.
You’re describing the importance of coherence. You can only change so much before you are no longer the same thing. Nationalism is pride in who you are and what you came from, which is why subversives work so hard to demonize and destroy it - so they can replace “who you are” with what they want you to be. Civic nationalism is just another type of subversion - anyone can become who you are, and take what you were given, if they say the right passwords.
You’re describing the importance of coherence. You can only change so much before you are no longer the same thing.
Ship of Theseus, and all that, yeah. That's part of it, but I was more talking individual subversives. You don't have to replace every part of the ship/nation, to change it drastically. You can leave most of the parts the same, but corrupt them. Think of it like termites versus replacing the parts. Termites, you'll have the same ship and pieces, but it will have been eaten away from the inside.
I used to work at a company where they wanted to bring in H1B workers from Mexico, because they were cheaper. However, by law, they have to advertise for job openings locally, and accept American workers first. They would advertise for job openings, get tons of applications, throw all of those applications in the trash, and then tell the government "no one wants to do these jobs". Then they'd get to import foreign workers.
This happens all over, across all sectors of the economy. It's one giant con game for companies to import cheaper labor. To make matters worse, all large companies, and entire sectors (like the tech sector) now publically deny all White male applicants. This is illegal, but allowed to happen, because the government and globalists want it.
What does any of that have to do with my comment, where I say legal immigration in this context only makes sense for actual geniuses, which only exist on the scale of hundreds of people at most?
I literally say the only reason to import thousands and thousands of pajeets is to depress wages. I seriously feel like no one read my comment past the first sentence.
You defended the H1B program and the current demographic replacement of White people in our own countries. You explicitly argued that it is better to bring in "100 geniuses that are at the top of the field" (implying foreigners), than to hire White men. Your statement is naive of what's actually happening. We have tons of local White men capable of doing these jobs. It's just that the systems in place are corrupt, they're throwing away applications from locals, are putting up ads to locals which demand extremely unreasonable criteria for the job (to prevent locals from applying), are intentionally not hiring White men, and are then outsourcing jobs to foreigners or importing foreigners under the H1B scam, purely to get cheaper labor. If you'd bother to listen to the miles long list of anecdotal examples, or the open books for H1B job openings, you'd see what's happening plain as day. I already knew what was happening, because I worked at a company that did this, in the open, and were never punished for it.
where I say legal immigration in this context only makes sense for actual geniuses
How come we're only importing "geniuses" from non-white countries? Why are we never importing European geniuses? Weird. Have you not heard of the Kalergi plan? The cabal in power have openly expressed the desire to replace White people in our own countries, through open borders and mass immigration of non-whites, to replace and genocide us. Since the Hart-Celler act of 1965 in the U.S., and the opening of Europe's, Canada's, South Africa's, Rhodesia's, and Australia's borders, we've seen the largest demographic replacement of a people in the history of the planet. And it's entirely intentional and malicious. Most normies don't know about this, even though the cabal admit to it in the open, in their own books, and brag about it, but it's just not broadcast in mainstream news (even on the mainstream right, who are in on the plan) or taught in schools.
White people have some of the highest IQs on the planet. If a company can't find a genius level White guy to do the work, it means something is seriously wrong with the systems in place. If you can't find a local to do the job, it means locals need to be trained to do the job, not import infinity non-whites to do it. Your way would only replace us, but slower, which fits perfectly fine with the people in power.
I literally say the only reason to import thousands and thousands of pajeets is to depress wages. I seriously feel like no one read my comment past the first sentence.
Even if we only import "the best of the best" non-whites foreigners, what would result from that? All of our best jobs and positions would be filled with foreigners, who would lord over the local White people, and not act in our best interests. We see endless examples of this all over the West. Foreigners gain power over a company, a sector, a government, and they use it to benefit their own people, to the detriment of the locals. Indians gain control of hiring at a company, they fire all the White people, and hire all Indians. Mexicans "do the jobs we don't want to do" (even though White people have done those jobs for thousands of years), they come in, depress everyone's wages, push out White people (because we know those low wages are bullshit), the companies lobby government to allow in more foreign workers, immigration of non-whites accelerates, makes the problem worse, depresses wages in other sectors of society, and the trend keeps accelerating for the worse.
People have a right to rule themselves, to have their own leaders, to have their own groups, to gatekeep out undesirables, to control who enters their homes and nations. If a group or people are denied these rights, they will eventually cease to exist.
Your way is a slow death, but still death, and fits perfectly in line with the Kalergi plan. Your idea is a failure, and White people are increasingly realizing the failures of it, which is why more and more are pushing back, as we're constantly fucked over by these corrupt systems and false ideas.
I didn't comment on H1B at all. I was making a statement on legal immigration in general. When I say 100 people, I'm talking about literal genius level talent, the likes of which is limited to a very small handful of people globally. The 0.0001%. I'm not talking about the hordes of 10s of thousands of pajeets.
Bringing in geniuses on the scale of 100s of people annually (in reality it might not even be that many), is not a slow death when it's a country of 300 million people, and it's ridiculous to suggest that it would be.
You've sperged about a lot of things wrong with the current system that I would largely agree with, but it has nothing to do with my comment. Yes, I would absolutely agree that we should be poaching the Norweigan genius as well. As a matter of fact, given the IQ distribution of a lot of the less desirable races, the foreign white or asian (chink not brown) genius should be much more common than the pajeet ones. It's all about creating a system with strict guidelines and ensuring it isn't exploited for uses beyond those that were intended.
I would agree that as executed now, these programs could be scaled down by like 99% or more, and I can't be bothered to go back and forth about where to draw that line within the remaining 1% when we are so far away from what either of us would want at this point. I'm content to just agree that we know which direction things need to be pushed; we can quabble over when to stop pushing later.
Your comment ties back to the problem associated with H1B visas, as well as all visa and immigration programs the U.S. is using. It's all a giant scam, which is what I was trying to explain to you. Until our countries (the entire White West) are fixed and run by our own people, with our own interests at heart, all immigration must be stopped. Any immigration that brings in people who aren't like us is traitorous by its very nature, and should be stopped. I don't care how smart the immigrants are. And, even if it were still only a handful of uber intelligent immigrants, it still results in foreigners gaining key positions in the upper echelons of society, which always results in antagonism toward the stock people of the nation, because the foreigners don't share our values or prioritize our people.
Bringing in geniuses on the scale of 100s of people annually (in reality it might not even be that many), is not a slow death when it's a country of 300 million people, and it's ridiculous to suggest that it would be.
Your musings on this issue are so wildly off of the reality of the situation that your idea can be ignored entirely. We're facing the systemic genocide of White people across the entire planet, and you're arguing about things which will never happen.
You've sperged about a lot of things wrong with the current system
My people are being genocided intentionally, and you call it "sperging out". Find better words to use. That, or you're revealing your true feelings, that you revile White people, and think we don't have natural rights, like having our own homes and nations, the right to protect our borders, the right to associate with whom we choose, the right to control who enters our homes and nations, the right to collectivize, the right to espouse and enforce our views, the right to violently stop the people hurting us.
and ensuring it isn't exploited for uses beyond those that were intended.
The U.S. was conquered, built, and maintained for White people, not the entire damned planet. One of the first acts the 1st Congress passed was limit immigration to White people of good standing. The Hart Celler act of 1965 changed U.S. immigration from White countries to non-white. So which is "intended" here, according to you? The laws currently on the books, laws which are corrupt and wanted by evil men, or the previous laws passed by our ancestors, laws based on logic and our natural rights?
I'm content to just agree that we know which direction things need to be pushed; we can quabble over when to stop pushing later.
Are you under the belief that we still have any room to compromise with the people trying to kill us? We're not voting our way out of this. The left and right are both in on the Kalergi plan. When you're right, you don't compromise. When someone is trying to kill you, you don't compromise.
Your musings on this issue are so wildly off of the reality of the situation that your idea can be ignored entirely. We're facing the systemic genocide of White people across the entire planet, and you're arguing about things which will never happen.
My "musings" are far closer to something that could happen than yours of shutting off any and all immigration "until our countries are fixed and run by our own people." Realistically, both are relatively unlikely in the current situation though, unfortunately.
My people are being genocided intentionally, and you call it "sperging out". Find better words to use. That, or you're revealing your true feelings, that you revile White people, and think we don't have natural rights, like having our own homes and nations, the right to protect our borders, the right to associate with whom we choose, the right to control who enters our homes and nations, the right to collectivize, the right to espouse and enforce our views, the right to violently stop the people hurting us.
I'm calling it what it is. You're turning away people who are 99% on your side with your retardation. I'm every bit as white as you, and yet in a couple of comments back and forth, you took "it would be best if we could let in like 100 geniuses and leave it at that" and turned it into "you're revealing your true feelings, that you revile white people." There is no universe where that isnt sperging.
I understand it's a very important issue and things can get emotional, but holy shit come on.
It's such a fucking stupid, evil stance.
The whole point of a nation is to serve its people. It's not selfish to ask that the nation we fund (at gunpoint, but that's a separate issue) serve our interests. Anything else is slavery.
Legal immigration is fine...as long as it's in numbers that don't push out Americans, of any class.
I don't want low skilled workers coming here and hurting poor Americans. I don't want higher performing workers coming here and hurting middle class Americans, or Americans trying to reach the middle class.
Some legal immigration of those mentioned - hard-working, honest, pro-America - is fine. But we shouldn't be replacing Americans, and we shouldn't be funding and setting up ethnic enclaves.
I want America to win. But Americans need to win, that's the whole point of America winning.
America must win, so her people can win. We've already done enough - both good and bad - for the rest of the world over the last century. It's (well past) time to focus on Americans!
Elon has explicitly compared countries to sports teams. He wants his economic zone to win.
I don't even think he wants his economic zone to win. He personally wants to win. If he thought the best way to do that would be by moving to China he would.
He tried with the Shanghai Gigafactory. Too bad BYD is kicking Tesla's ass.
Both produce hot garbage.
Where did this dialectic/pilpul of America "winning" (or losing) come from anyway? Did Elon start it or just step into it? For our nation to succeed, the individuals in our country need to be able to succeed and prosper. That's it. Yes we need a successful economy but life isn't a zero sum game we have to "win." Both Chinese and American companies can invest in AI or whatever boom the techbros are concerned about and we'll be fine.
Where did it come from? It’s literally just civic nationalism. The notion that America is an “idea nation”, wholly separate from and in no way responsible to its heritage or people, is the inevitable end point of civnat faggotry. Elevating “paper Americans” over native citizens, treating the country as a purely economic zone with no valid inherent culture of its. Of course rapacious, rootless elites like Musk view America purely in these opportunistic and self-serving terms. Of course Vivek adopts whatever arguments promote the interests of his co-ethnics and the culture of his own homeland. Civic nationalism is to nationalism as social justice is to justice - an inversion, a perversion, intended to destroy a people.
Not sure where it started, but I bet that's the attack vector for subversives. "You want to Make America Great Again? Then
diversity is our strengthwe need immigration to win!The more I think about it the scarier their narrative frame sounds. It's more an appeal to emotion than an argument from which policy can be based. When do we know we've won? When we win can we stop winning or do we have to win more? It sounds like progressivism. "We must progress forever. Progress to what? Who knows. We must progress. We must win. We must leave the deplorables and backwards thinkers behind and progress forward. We must leave the losers behind to win. We must be on the right side of history. We must be on the winning team."
Sargon is right. Liberalism inevitably leads to leftism.
When the population is 80% White European again and we're bullying other nations into doing what we want them to while also having prosperity for the lower and middle class populations within our society.
80? Those are rookie numbers. Gotta pump those numbers up!
Yep. Just disguised Leftist talking points. Pigs with MAGA lipstick put on 'em.
It comes from the middle class trying to play as Bismark under "The Great Game" of geopolitics.
What is America winning at?
Making our women whores, destroying our men, abortions, faggotry, debt, usury, banking, propaganda, killing White people, supporting Israel, needless wars, and killing foreigners who obstruct globohomo plans.
We shouldn't accept any immigrants until we have the space to take in more. We're barely able to handle everyone already here; the Texas grid alone nearly collapsed because of demand during a winter storm. And then there's the water shortages...
The Texas power grid collapsed because we went all-in on "renewables" instead of what's worked for a century like coal and nuclear.
Source: am Texan, experienced that storm and blackout first-hand.
I've got a better one:
Your son was ideologically captured by the woke virus. Why don't you adopt a pajeet instead. Don't you want to win as a parent?
That is better. If you have a sock puppet, please post it.
Going from hordes of illegal Mexicans and Haitians or hordes of 'legal' Indians is still contributing to the browning of America. Whites built America from a savage frontier sparsely ppopulated by cannibals into the most productive and powerful country ever seen on Earth. The less white America became, the worse it's gotten. These are facts.
I'd argue the latter is worse. Indians are much more ethnically focused, and thus more subversive. Some Mexicans might not like white people, and might want to keep to their own people, but they're not as active or intentional in their replacement efforts. It's well known Indians love to support Indians, and go about hiring Indians whenever possible. In equal numbers, I think Indians will replace more Americans than Mexicans. Mexicans like Mexicans, but they often want to be left alone. Indians want to conquer.
Yeah, indians have the ambition of jews, but the tact of blacks.
Indians (dots) make Mexicans look like rocket scientists.
Nations are blood, full stop. Anyone who thinks otherwise can explain it to the wall.
And if it turns out that's the overwhelming majority of people, I don't care.
And even if they weren't, you can still make the nearly exact same argument just on time.
My family has been here from the start, but even if it had only been like five generations...that's still five generations more than some Indian, Chinaman, Mexican...or even Englishman or what have you.
We've been here. We've put in the time, the energy, the labor. Or elites don't just get to replace us, especially while we're forced to fund it. No, fuck off. America first, Americans first. We can let some others in in small numbers, when there's room. But we should at the very least put an almost complete pause on things while we refocus on Americans.
Nations are people, not blood.
Similarly blooded peoples do not necessarily share nations. Particularly if they differ in religion or ideology.
Imagine being lectured by some African on what's best for America.
Born in South Africa that has turned into a complete shot hole since he was born.
Cool story faggot, let’s remove all the limiters on IP use then, bet you immediately change your tune when any American company can copy your product and drive down costs.
Why is destroying private property a solution to anything?
Is this the logical endpoint of 'running a country like a business?' If so, I'm ashamed to have considered that a good thing.
It’s the logical endpoint of civic nationalism. Anyone who denies an American racial/ethnic identity is inevitably dog walking you to exactly right here. The only reason why they do it is anti-whiteness. Every non-white country is permitted an ethnic identity.
I know many on the right aren't prepared for this conversation, but this is also the end point of capitalism. Capitalism, by its nature, prioritizes the pursuit of money and profit over all else, even over the people. Unrestrained capitalism constantly pushes for lowering costs, exporting jobs to cheaper foreign markets, importing foreign workers to depress wages of everyone, using cheaper ingredients, making cheaper products, building in obsolescence into their products, and selling it for the same amount. This also results in a never ending debt spiral for consumers, who are constantly told they need to buy X, Y, and Z, but also because everything made nowadays is cheap and designed to fail after a certain amount of time, forcing us to continually consume. Capitalism, at the end goal, produces a hollow consumerist culture.
This is why so many right wingers advocate for policies that are a death sentence to their own children, because it makes the GDP and stock market go up. Usury, debt slavery, consumerism, obsolescence, outsourcing, mass immigration, junk food, greater and greater wealth disparity between CEOs and the average worker, it's all a natural consequence of capitalism.
Most of us have been fooled into the benefits of capitalism because of the success of Western civilization, but most of the benefits we associate with capitalism (like free trade and specialization of labor) have existed for thousands of years.
There's a good Stone Choir podcast on this topic, of anyone is interested:
https://youtu.be/7bjys8wo4Bo?si=SCY3TmI5abt-9hnP
Is it a capitalism problem, or is it a fiat funny money problem? Bonds and savings are dogshit, so everyone piles into the stock market expecting it to "beat inflation". Meanwhile, the government gets more taxes with the increased GDP and corporate profit for the problem it directly created.
With how capitalism works, it necessarily requires usury/interest. Usury concentrates money and power in the hands of bankers. Through the power bankers attain, they keep pushing for policies which concentrate even more money and power in their hands. Fiat money is just another method to do that. So is money printing, and fractional reserve lending and banking.
Like I said, capitalism is the prioritization of money, and the accrual of money, above all else, even above people, truth, honesty, and merit. Capitalism, by its design, devolves in a downward spiral.
Also, the stock market is a scam. The Gamestop fiasco proved that, where regular Joes manipulated the market with Gamestop stocks, so they could make money (the exact same way rich people do), it made the trillionaire hedge funders lose tons of money, and almost immediately the stock markets were frozen, regular people were prevented from buying or selling while rich people could still do so, and previous transactions were nullified.
The only reason people in the West have to earn interest on their money (through a bank account, or the stock market, or some other bullshit medium), is because of inflation, to merely keep pace with their own money losing value in real time. Inflation is caused entirely by bankers, as a means to steal wealth from poor people, and concentrate it in the hands of the already uber rich. The U.S. dollar remained stable for most of its life, until the implementation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 (a central bank), where it's now lost about 99% of its value (or more).
Says the retard who doesn't know what Civic Nationalism is or means.
I agree with you that Civic Nationalism has allowed ethnogenesis to take place, and that there is an American ethnic identity, built on our values.
You can leave, since you're not American.
Let me guess, civic nationalism somehow means the opposite of civic nationalism.
Your spells don’t work here. That’s why you’re always downvoted to hell.
He says he's not Jewish, and maybe he's not, but he sure as hell argues like a Jew.
maybe he is a higher caste streetshitter or chinese. those bugpeople seem to love the jews and their evil ways.
The definition of civic nationalism is different than the one you make up in your own head about what you think it should mean, that's the difference.
The fact that you think not being retarded is a "magic spell" is all anyone needs to know about you.
So Elon interprets that as Indians? Fucking retard.
Arguably, this doesn't apply to Indians, since they are nepotistic, so, dishonest.
Nooo, stop being divisive! We have to only offer milquetoast resistance to letting the Indians in!
Maybe Elon needs to post his definition of "America", because he doesn't seem to think it includes Americans.
Musk loves to conflate terms - "qualified and highly motivated", "highly skilled and loves America". It's no better than saying diversity is a strength. That's some subversive shit, fuck him and the faggoty e-car he rode in on.
Globalist.
I hate immigration. All of it. Make your own shit countries better. Stop making ours worse.
Maybe try voting harder next time, goyim.
A Nation is more than lines on a map. It's a political demarcation of the territory of a people that are partially restricted from leaving by geography of some kind, of which who share a degree of genetic and cultural relatedness. It's time to start talking about Countries as having a people again. If Elon wants an economic zone to try and rack the score up on he should come to Australia.
Tesla is not America
I like how it can be prejudged which POCs on foreign shores "love America" before they even set foot in the country.
I can agree that there is a place for legal immigration. But mass immigration is no better than illegal immigration. The types of people that are coming is only one aspect of the issue. And arguably, the amount is of a bigger issue than the quality.
And frankly, the idea that the market needs immigrants to function is ludicrous. It doesn't need a slave labour class. If Americans aren't doing certain jobs, maybe it's time to actually examine why that is instead of handwaving it away and declaring it some unexplainable evil or unchangeable status quo.
What's more, you cannot be in favour of tariffs to improve working conditions in America to improve American lives AND support increased immigration that will fill that job market.
The whole point of tariffs is to keep work domestic, and it completely undermines that when instead of outsourcing the work to foreign workers, you instead just bring the foreign workers to a domestic setting. Fuck that. Fuck off. It's not solving the problem.
America is not going to lose anything by lowering legal migration.
We're still running this astroturfed wedge, huh?
The thing is, the super pro legal immigration stance is correct on the proper scale. Take a very important and rapidly developing field like AI for instance. 100 geniuses that are at the top of the field will do more to generate progress than 10,000 mid level tech employees, and those geniuses are available in very limited quantities. Okay, have systems in place to fast track people who are proven to be on that level.
If that, and that alone, were the topic of discussion here, I could agree. But they take it way too far. There is no need to import thousands and thousands of pajeets other than to flood the market with cheap labor and depress wages for the native population.
H1Bs are not for the elite recruits. That's a separate program. You've been bamboozled into thinking H1Bs and O1s are the same.
I wasn't speaking on any specific program, just a general sentiment regarding legal immigration. But yeah if there's already a separate program for actual geniuses then the H1B could really be scrapped altogether.
O1s are almost exclusively arts and athletes. They throw in science in some of their application guidance but half the time they forget and just say arts and athletes. I think even the very top tier science and engineering people are far more likely to get to the US on an H1B visa than an O1
Like maybe the only scientists coming in on O1s are Nobel prize winners who want to move before even having a job lined up.
I fail to see the problem.
Then the solution isn't to allow in all H1Bs, it's to fix the system already in place.
This is the problem with statists of any variety. They use one much smaller issue to push through a far bigger problem that they support. In this case it's beneficial, intelligent immigrants that could provide big economic benefits, but with it we also need to let in a wave of low-value migrants that can flood the lower and middle economic job markets. Another common example is the push for censorship, most commonly rationalised with "won't someone think of the children".
Statists, totalitarians and authoritarians all love using Motte and Bailey techniques to justify and rationalise why they need to be given more and more power.
Jesus. I didn't say we should be coming through on H1Bs, just that they are.
The other guy said the elite scientists were already all coming through on O1 visas, that's just not true and I prefer the truth be stated plainly.
I wasn't trying to say that you were, but that this is ultimately the argument Elon will inevitably be relying on to continue allowing H1Bs through, because it's already the existing argument of the establishment.
I was also trying to outline that this circumstance still isn't an excuse for people like Elon, since there's meant to already be a framework that's meant to allow the people he's trying to support through. Because statists love using a broken system to advocate for a bigger and expanded system, and not fixing what is already there.
All fair and true, I just never want to be mistaken as a bigger state advocate so wanted to be proactive there.
It's still not worth it, if they don't genuinely love America...and that's really hard to vet. I'm generally in agreement with you, but even that sort of thing is very dangerous.
Look at post-WW2. We imported all the Marxists, communists, and socialists to do rocketry, nuclear, and the like. I'm not sure what the numbers were, but certainly much, much less than our current immigration numbers. And they completely fucked the country, perhaps irreparably so.
A relatively small number of subversives can do massive cultural damage so, if we are going to try to poach the geniuses, we have to select for more than just skill, intelligence, and accomplishment. Even that's not enough. That said, considering we have so many Americans who hate America nowadays, grabbing a few geniuses is still probably a net gain in the current scheme of things.
You’re describing the importance of coherence. You can only change so much before you are no longer the same thing. Nationalism is pride in who you are and what you came from, which is why subversives work so hard to demonize and destroy it - so they can replace “who you are” with what they want you to be. Civic nationalism is just another type of subversion - anyone can become who you are, and take what you were given, if they say the right passwords.
Ship of Theseus, and all that, yeah. That's part of it, but I was more talking individual subversives. You don't have to replace every part of the ship/nation, to change it drastically. You can leave most of the parts the same, but corrupt them. Think of it like termites versus replacing the parts. Termites, you'll have the same ship and pieces, but it will have been eaten away from the inside.
You're not familiar with the con being played?
I used to work at a company where they wanted to bring in H1B workers from Mexico, because they were cheaper. However, by law, they have to advertise for job openings locally, and accept American workers first. They would advertise for job openings, get tons of applications, throw all of those applications in the trash, and then tell the government "no one wants to do these jobs". Then they'd get to import foreign workers.
This happens all over, across all sectors of the economy. It's one giant con game for companies to import cheaper labor. To make matters worse, all large companies, and entire sectors (like the tech sector) now publically deny all White male applicants. This is illegal, but allowed to happen, because the government and globalists want it.
What does any of that have to do with my comment, where I say legal immigration in this context only makes sense for actual geniuses, which only exist on the scale of hundreds of people at most?
I literally say the only reason to import thousands and thousands of pajeets is to depress wages. I seriously feel like no one read my comment past the first sentence.
You defended the H1B program and the current demographic replacement of White people in our own countries. You explicitly argued that it is better to bring in "100 geniuses that are at the top of the field" (implying foreigners), than to hire White men. Your statement is naive of what's actually happening. We have tons of local White men capable of doing these jobs. It's just that the systems in place are corrupt, they're throwing away applications from locals, are putting up ads to locals which demand extremely unreasonable criteria for the job (to prevent locals from applying), are intentionally not hiring White men, and are then outsourcing jobs to foreigners or importing foreigners under the H1B scam, purely to get cheaper labor. If you'd bother to listen to the miles long list of anecdotal examples, or the open books for H1B job openings, you'd see what's happening plain as day. I already knew what was happening, because I worked at a company that did this, in the open, and were never punished for it.
How come we're only importing "geniuses" from non-white countries? Why are we never importing European geniuses? Weird. Have you not heard of the Kalergi plan? The cabal in power have openly expressed the desire to replace White people in our own countries, through open borders and mass immigration of non-whites, to replace and genocide us. Since the Hart-Celler act of 1965 in the U.S., and the opening of Europe's, Canada's, South Africa's, Rhodesia's, and Australia's borders, we've seen the largest demographic replacement of a people in the history of the planet. And it's entirely intentional and malicious. Most normies don't know about this, even though the cabal admit to it in the open, in their own books, and brag about it, but it's just not broadcast in mainstream news (even on the mainstream right, who are in on the plan) or taught in schools.
White people have some of the highest IQs on the planet. If a company can't find a genius level White guy to do the work, it means something is seriously wrong with the systems in place. If you can't find a local to do the job, it means locals need to be trained to do the job, not import infinity non-whites to do it. Your way would only replace us, but slower, which fits perfectly fine with the people in power.
Even if we only import "the best of the best" non-whites foreigners, what would result from that? All of our best jobs and positions would be filled with foreigners, who would lord over the local White people, and not act in our best interests. We see endless examples of this all over the West. Foreigners gain power over a company, a sector, a government, and they use it to benefit their own people, to the detriment of the locals. Indians gain control of hiring at a company, they fire all the White people, and hire all Indians. Mexicans "do the jobs we don't want to do" (even though White people have done those jobs for thousands of years), they come in, depress everyone's wages, push out White people (because we know those low wages are bullshit), the companies lobby government to allow in more foreign workers, immigration of non-whites accelerates, makes the problem worse, depresses wages in other sectors of society, and the trend keeps accelerating for the worse.
People have a right to rule themselves, to have their own leaders, to have their own groups, to gatekeep out undesirables, to control who enters their homes and nations. If a group or people are denied these rights, they will eventually cease to exist.
Your way is a slow death, but still death, and fits perfectly in line with the Kalergi plan. Your idea is a failure, and White people are increasingly realizing the failures of it, which is why more and more are pushing back, as we're constantly fucked over by these corrupt systems and false ideas.
I didn't comment on H1B at all. I was making a statement on legal immigration in general. When I say 100 people, I'm talking about literal genius level talent, the likes of which is limited to a very small handful of people globally. The 0.0001%. I'm not talking about the hordes of 10s of thousands of pajeets.
Bringing in geniuses on the scale of 100s of people annually (in reality it might not even be that many), is not a slow death when it's a country of 300 million people, and it's ridiculous to suggest that it would be.
You've sperged about a lot of things wrong with the current system that I would largely agree with, but it has nothing to do with my comment. Yes, I would absolutely agree that we should be poaching the Norweigan genius as well. As a matter of fact, given the IQ distribution of a lot of the less desirable races, the foreign white or asian (chink not brown) genius should be much more common than the pajeet ones. It's all about creating a system with strict guidelines and ensuring it isn't exploited for uses beyond those that were intended.
I would agree that as executed now, these programs could be scaled down by like 99% or more, and I can't be bothered to go back and forth about where to draw that line within the remaining 1% when we are so far away from what either of us would want at this point. I'm content to just agree that we know which direction things need to be pushed; we can quabble over when to stop pushing later.
Your comment ties back to the problem associated with H1B visas, as well as all visa and immigration programs the U.S. is using. It's all a giant scam, which is what I was trying to explain to you. Until our countries (the entire White West) are fixed and run by our own people, with our own interests at heart, all immigration must be stopped. Any immigration that brings in people who aren't like us is traitorous by its very nature, and should be stopped. I don't care how smart the immigrants are. And, even if it were still only a handful of uber intelligent immigrants, it still results in foreigners gaining key positions in the upper echelons of society, which always results in antagonism toward the stock people of the nation, because the foreigners don't share our values or prioritize our people.
Your musings on this issue are so wildly off of the reality of the situation that your idea can be ignored entirely. We're facing the systemic genocide of White people across the entire planet, and you're arguing about things which will never happen.
My people are being genocided intentionally, and you call it "sperging out". Find better words to use. That, or you're revealing your true feelings, that you revile White people, and think we don't have natural rights, like having our own homes and nations, the right to protect our borders, the right to associate with whom we choose, the right to control who enters our homes and nations, the right to collectivize, the right to espouse and enforce our views, the right to violently stop the people hurting us.
The U.S. was conquered, built, and maintained for White people, not the entire damned planet. One of the first acts the 1st Congress passed was limit immigration to White people of good standing. The Hart Celler act of 1965 changed U.S. immigration from White countries to non-white. So which is "intended" here, according to you? The laws currently on the books, laws which are corrupt and wanted by evil men, or the previous laws passed by our ancestors, laws based on logic and our natural rights?
Are you under the belief that we still have any room to compromise with the people trying to kill us? We're not voting our way out of this. The left and right are both in on the Kalergi plan. When you're right, you don't compromise. When someone is trying to kill you, you don't compromise.
My "musings" are far closer to something that could happen than yours of shutting off any and all immigration "until our countries are fixed and run by our own people." Realistically, both are relatively unlikely in the current situation though, unfortunately.
I'm calling it what it is. You're turning away people who are 99% on your side with your retardation. I'm every bit as white as you, and yet in a couple of comments back and forth, you took "it would be best if we could let in like 100 geniuses and leave it at that" and turned it into "you're revealing your true feelings, that you revile white people." There is no universe where that isnt sperging.
I understand it's a very important issue and things can get emotional, but holy shit come on.
Oh fuck OFF!
Use your words retard. And read the post until the end.