I think it probably comes down to inventory size. Grid based only really works with an aggressively small and finite inventory.
My favorite inventory system though is probably the ring system from Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. Something about that approach just felt really well done. Maybe it's just because that was back when inventories and game design overall was simpler and more elegant instead of a convoluted mess that modern gaming has become.
Grid based only really works with an aggressively small and finite inventory.
The real issue with grids are that the only information you get is an icon and maybe a name until you select said item. That's why they only work with very small inventories. If you have 100 items in your inventory and all you have to differentiate between them is an icon, you're going to get really fed up scrolling through every item trying to find the one you want. This problem gets exponentially worse if multiple items share the same icon.
You forget that a game can have hover-over tooltip overlays, at least on PC (with mouse). Still, I agree that it's more ideal within smaller numerical ranges, though a proper weight/carrying capacity system can cover usually cover that almost on its own.
Also, some items don't really need a lot of extra details when it's plainly obvious what they are. IE, medkits and bandages, ammunition with icons that make it fairly clear what kind of ammunition it is, etc.
Sort of depends on the situation and context I guess.
For me, if I'm diving in and out of the menu a lot I'd rather not fill up more screen space with an entire section just for item details that I may or may not need to check on a frequent basis.
I'd also rather not have to actively select each item in a grid (or list for that matter) to glance at the item details.
But that really does depend on the kind of game in question. For a strategy game with a lot of listed stats, I probably would prefer a dedicated section of UI for a unit's details.
Item comparison's another UI feature to consider as well, although I've rarely been a fan of how most games implement that.
Like many mechanics in CRPGs, a grid is a proxy for a "realistic" backpack and carry simulation, without being too annoying.
You can of course tweak what kind of grid you like to balance between realism and convenience, i.e. whether things stack, whether objects take up multiple "slots", whether objects have weight, etc. etc., and other comments pointed out the pros, but the fundamental idea is messing with objects and inventory management becomes an important part of the game. (and in that case you'd better get it right because it will be memorable to the player for good or bad)
Choosing a list simply means you don't want that mechanic in the game at all. The player is meant to find tons of objects in the world and figure out how to use them - not juggle objects and manage weight like a survival game. "All you want to do is let people pick up and drop stuff or equip things and there's not much else going on" as you say. Then The Inventory isn't part of role-playing at all but simply another status screen. (obviously you can still have things like weight limitations to add challenge)
So your choice depends on what best fits your game and what you/your target-audience likes.
Side note on inventory systems, another somewhat immersive idea was the one used in the 2008 Alone in the Dark remake, where you had to physically store items on your belt, and look around in 3D space to grab/replace items. Personally I think that kind of thing is way too limiting and annoying to work with, but it could fit some games and I wish designers tried uncommon ideas like that more often.
Grid systems are also handy for faster visual identification and sorting, but this only works when the kinds of items in the game (or their icons) are distinctive enough to not become a totally cluttered mess.
ARPG's are an example where I actually kind of hate grid systems. I've never honestly enjoyed trying to sort through 10 different melee weapons with different combinations of stats, almost constantly, throughout the entire game.
Somehow though, the list system in Borderlands was less of a pain. Probably because you could very quickly identify what you weren't going to want, based on details like the gun manufacturer, type of firearm, or tagline perks.
Same here, lol. Even more-so with legendaries and some of their lulzy (and sometimes informative) taglines. It's been a while since I've looked back on Borderlands and considered how well they did their itemization.
Sadly the Pre-sequel pretty much ruined the rest of the games for me by showing just how much of the game experience in that series depended on solidly planned scripted NPC-spawning events. And how much the questing satisfaction in it almost solely depended on humor, because from a gameplay perspective they were totally mundane fetch quests.
Grid works better with controllers, pr simulating a pack. List is better for mkb. Both, if the game has detailed stats, should have a stat window to the right side, a comparison option, and possibly a key to individually highlight stats and break down what exactly they affect.
It's certainly a big part of it, but I wouldn't say it's the only reason. Try managing 120 items in your inventory in an MMO with a grid list and tell me that isn't a pain in the ass.
If the total inventory is limited by size/weight or number of items that can be carried as design choice, grid is better visual representation of the limits. If the inventory is unlimited just use list with sorting options.
In general both can work.
It's reasonable to have big items (stuff with character-modifying attributes) in a grid fashion, but have a list for "pouch carry" items like keys, gems, rings, and other such items that don't affect gameplay and might be progression/quest-relevant.
A bit of a cop out answer from me, but I'll at least tell you why I don't think it matters much, and should just fit the game's overall feel.
Grid if you've got a lot of stuff that someone took the time to make pictures of, or you can easily see it rotate or something nicely in your inventory. Which probably takes a lot of time and effort to do all that. Which is appreciated most times. Just being able to inspect the things you pick up, so you can look at the details. That's always fun.
However, inventory lists are fine if you can quick swap between food, healing, armor, weapons, etc on the fly to make finding things easier.
It really depends on how much time and effort was put into making things look cool in the game, and how much detail it has. If it's a pixel game or a low poly game, a list inventory is fine. Maybe add little icons of what the items type is. Such as a sword/gun icon for weapons, suit of armor for armor, apple for food, etc. If items fall neatly into the above list of basic things you're bound to come across.
But if it's a 3D game, and a lot of time and care was put into things looking really nice, it might be fun to see it in closer detail in your inventory.
I hate grids. Weird shapes? Look, if I wanted to play Tetris, I would play that instead. Everything uniform size? Why bother?
As an analog for limited space, grids don't even make sense because it all gets jumbled up in a bag. It reminds me a little of guys with power tools in blow-molded cases versus the guys that actually work with their tools for a living and just have them in sacks and duffel bags.
If keeping a player from being a walking bank vault is the issue, I'd rather that be done with a weight/encumberment system, provided the weights make sense (no 0.1 pound bobby pins).
As long as I can sort the list or grid the way I want I don't have a preference. I find a lot of games have sorting but by their rules and only one attribute can be sorted at a time. I guess ideally I would have a mini Excel table to work with. But even if a list, I want icons showing what the item is visually.
Yeah, that's another issue I've occasionally noticed. Both in games and in other applications. Oh and websites too, like Youtube and Reddit search results. Definitely fits the "sort by their rules" kind of motif.
I bring this up because if I choose to code a list over a grid in my projects that have inventory systems it's a remarkable difference in the work load, lists are definitely easier to deal with and take less code compared to complicated grid systems if all you want to do is let people pick up and drop stuff or equip things and there's not much else going on.
Not really. It's a 2d array vs multiple 1d arrays. Yes, if you're letting people drag and drop into the grid it does complicate things a little bit, but list-based inventories have added complications of their own assuming you're letting players favorite items (which I'm hoping any list-based inventory does)
The other thing to keep in mind from both a code and UI design point of view is what limitation(s) if any are you going to have on the player inventory cap. If it is weight-based, then I think a list-based inventory makes more sense as (in my own experience anyway) when you get back to town you just grab the heaviest things out of your inventory and sell them. If it is number of items-based, then I think grid makes a ton more sense as you can quickly see everything you have in the inventory.
The main player advantage grids add is they allow much better organization of items than lists do, as players can group items in whatever category they want, whereas with lists things are broken into a couple categories that the devs decided and the players need to work around that. How important that is comes down to how the game itself works - if the overwhelming majority of what you find is just vendor trash, then a list works fine. But the more things have non-selling uses (keeping activatable items on hand, storing a variety of different types of crafting ingredients, keeping various items for specific fights (say, fire resistance armor for a particular boss), etc) grids make life much easier for the player.
grid will be more expensive to implement, requiring icons for each inventory item and all, but allows for more stylization. if the player is managing less than 50 inventory slots at a time, I find grids to be acceptable on a ux level.
When it starts to get more than that, list inventories tend to be easier to manage when they have sorting and searching. list inventories are also great for the developer because adding an item only requires adding text, you don't need an icon drawn.
Honestly don't care about grid versus list. Everything else in the inventory system makes more difference to me. If the RPG has complicated stats, it shouldn't be ambiguous what each stat does. If it's a piece of equippable gear, let me quickly compare with what I have equipped. Things that seem obvious, but lots of games leave this stuff out it seems.
I've often considered emulating some of how Windows Explorer works for an inventory UI design. Especially with the use of copy/paste clipboard types of things, custom folders, etc.
Then i remember how cool yet clunky that was in Star Wars Galaxies.
I think one of the key things to a solidly done inventory system though, regardless of which approach you take, is to actually utilize fucking FILTERS.
Elder Scrolls Online UI mods highlight how useful and necessary this is (IE, advanced filters). Same goes for some STALKER mods when using a grid-based system.
And another example of a filter system would be 7 Days to Die. I can't remember if it applied to the inventory UI, but being able to just hit the craft button and type out a few letters from the name of what you intend to craft and then finally finalizing the crafting process made things so incredibly clean, fast, and easy.
One other thing I will mention is that grid systems can be nice when the variety of items and gear isn't too insane, and/or when the number of items you can carry on your person is somewhat limited.
type out a few letters from the name of what you intend to craft and then finally finalizing the crafting process made things so incredibly clean, fast, and easy
One of those things that comes perfectly natural to PC players yet is never even considered by console players.
I think the way older shooters and such handled keycards is a bit close to what you describe, just sort of occurred to me.
Granted, those games usually didn't even have full-bore inventory systems, but under the hood it probably worked pretty much the same way as you've been describing.
Hah, that's a good point. There are times where I totally forget how console players have to handle things because I've been so used to being a dedicated PC gamer for so long.
Though admittedly, I did briefly consider how differently inventory and items tend to be handled in VR, which is still pretty weird to me.
I think it probably comes down to inventory size. Grid based only really works with an aggressively small and finite inventory.
My favorite inventory system though is probably the ring system from Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. Something about that approach just felt really well done. Maybe it's just because that was back when inventories and game design overall was simpler and more elegant instead of a convoluted mess that modern gaming has become.
The real issue with grids are that the only information you get is an icon and maybe a name until you select said item. That's why they only work with very small inventories. If you have 100 items in your inventory and all you have to differentiate between them is an icon, you're going to get really fed up scrolling through every item trying to find the one you want. This problem gets exponentially worse if multiple items share the same icon.
You forget that a game can have hover-over tooltip overlays, at least on PC (with mouse). Still, I agree that it's more ideal within smaller numerical ranges, though a proper weight/carrying capacity system can cover usually cover that almost on its own.
Also, some items don't really need a lot of extra details when it's plainly obvious what they are. IE, medkits and bandages, ammunition with icons that make it fairly clear what kind of ammunition it is, etc.
Hover over is also inferior to having the grid be on one side and the item details on the other.
Sort of depends on the situation and context I guess.
For me, if I'm diving in and out of the menu a lot I'd rather not fill up more screen space with an entire section just for item details that I may or may not need to check on a frequent basis.
I'd also rather not have to actively select each item in a grid (or list for that matter) to glance at the item details.
But that really does depend on the kind of game in question. For a strategy game with a lot of listed stats, I probably would prefer a dedicated section of UI for a unit's details.
Item comparison's another UI feature to consider as well, although I've rarely been a fan of how most games implement that.
It's not only about what it "looks like".
Like many mechanics in CRPGs, a grid is a proxy for a "realistic" backpack and carry simulation, without being too annoying. You can of course tweak what kind of grid you like to balance between realism and convenience, i.e. whether things stack, whether objects take up multiple "slots", whether objects have weight, etc. etc., and other comments pointed out the pros, but the fundamental idea is messing with objects and inventory management becomes an important part of the game. (and in that case you'd better get it right because it will be memorable to the player for good or bad)
Choosing a list simply means you don't want that mechanic in the game at all. The player is meant to find tons of objects in the world and figure out how to use them - not juggle objects and manage weight like a survival game. "All you want to do is let people pick up and drop stuff or equip things and there's not much else going on" as you say. Then The Inventory isn't part of role-playing at all but simply another status screen. (obviously you can still have things like weight limitations to add challenge)
So your choice depends on what best fits your game and what you/your target-audience likes.
Side note on inventory systems, another somewhat immersive idea was the one used in the 2008 Alone in the Dark remake, where you had to physically store items on your belt, and look around in 3D space to grab/replace items. Personally I think that kind of thing is way too limiting and annoying to work with, but it could fit some games and I wish designers tried uncommon ideas like that more often.
Grid systems are also handy for faster visual identification and sorting, but this only works when the kinds of items in the game (or their icons) are distinctive enough to not become a totally cluttered mess.
ARPG's are an example where I actually kind of hate grid systems. I've never honestly enjoyed trying to sort through 10 different melee weapons with different combinations of stats, almost constantly, throughout the entire game.
Somehow though, the list system in Borderlands was less of a pain. Probably because you could very quickly identify what you weren't going to want, based on details like the gun manufacturer, type of firearm, or tagline perks.
Same here, lol. Even more-so with legendaries and some of their lulzy (and sometimes informative) taglines. It's been a while since I've looked back on Borderlands and considered how well they did their itemization.
Sadly the Pre-sequel pretty much ruined the rest of the games for me by showing just how much of the game experience in that series depended on solidly planned scripted NPC-spawning events. And how much the questing satisfaction in it almost solely depended on humor, because from a gameplay perspective they were totally mundane fetch quests.
Grid works better with controllers, pr simulating a pack. List is better for mkb. Both, if the game has detailed stats, should have a stat window to the right side, a comparison option, and possibly a key to individually highlight stats and break down what exactly they affect.
RimWorld, both. Lists with icons.
One thing Rimworld could borrow from most other games, RPGs in particular, is a comparison feature letting you see the stat changes an item gives.
You can do that manually, which is probably all you'll get because of just how many stats items have, particularly weapons.
The only reason list inventories exist in modern games is due to console gamers and controllers. that's it. that's their entire reason for existing.
It's certainly a big part of it, but I wouldn't say it's the only reason. Try managing 120 items in your inventory in an MMO with a grid list and tell me that isn't a pain in the ass.
There certainly is a reason why inventory organizing mods are usually one of the first and most popular things in any MMO.
Better than managing 120 items in a list.
If the total inventory is limited by size/weight or number of items that can be carried as design choice, grid is better visual representation of the limits. If the inventory is unlimited just use list with sorting options.
In general both can work. It's reasonable to have big items (stuff with character-modifying attributes) in a grid fashion, but have a list for "pouch carry" items like keys, gems, rings, and other such items that don't affect gameplay and might be progression/quest-relevant.
A bit of a cop out answer from me, but I'll at least tell you why I don't think it matters much, and should just fit the game's overall feel.
Grid if you've got a lot of stuff that someone took the time to make pictures of, or you can easily see it rotate or something nicely in your inventory. Which probably takes a lot of time and effort to do all that. Which is appreciated most times. Just being able to inspect the things you pick up, so you can look at the details. That's always fun.
However, inventory lists are fine if you can quick swap between food, healing, armor, weapons, etc on the fly to make finding things easier.
It really depends on how much time and effort was put into making things look cool in the game, and how much detail it has. If it's a pixel game or a low poly game, a list inventory is fine. Maybe add little icons of what the items type is. Such as a sword/gun icon for weapons, suit of armor for armor, apple for food, etc. If items fall neatly into the above list of basic things you're bound to come across.
But if it's a 3D game, and a lot of time and care was put into things looking really nice, it might be fun to see it in closer detail in your inventory.
I had forgotten how much the Diablo II inventory limit annoyed me. Now I remember and it turns me off from reinstalling the game.
I like to hoard stuff.
I hate grids. Weird shapes? Look, if I wanted to play Tetris, I would play that instead. Everything uniform size? Why bother?
As an analog for limited space, grids don't even make sense because it all gets jumbled up in a bag. It reminds me a little of guys with power tools in blow-molded cases versus the guys that actually work with their tools for a living and just have them in sacks and duffel bags.
If keeping a player from being a walking bank vault is the issue, I'd rather that be done with a weight/encumberment system, provided the weights make sense (no 0.1 pound bobby pins).
I tend to agree that grids are a terrible way to implement carry-capacity limitations, especially when they utilize different sizes and dimensions.
Not all grid systems use it as a metric for capacity limit though.
As long as I can sort the list or grid the way I want I don't have a preference. I find a lot of games have sorting but by their rules and only one attribute can be sorted at a time. I guess ideally I would have a mini Excel table to work with. But even if a list, I want icons showing what the item is visually.
Yeah, that's another issue I've occasionally noticed. Both in games and in other applications. Oh and websites too, like Youtube and Reddit search results. Definitely fits the "sort by their rules" kind of motif.
Not really. It's a 2d array vs multiple 1d arrays. Yes, if you're letting people drag and drop into the grid it does complicate things a little bit, but list-based inventories have added complications of their own assuming you're letting players favorite items (which I'm hoping any list-based inventory does)
The other thing to keep in mind from both a code and UI design point of view is what limitation(s) if any are you going to have on the player inventory cap. If it is weight-based, then I think a list-based inventory makes more sense as (in my own experience anyway) when you get back to town you just grab the heaviest things out of your inventory and sell them. If it is number of items-based, then I think grid makes a ton more sense as you can quickly see everything you have in the inventory.
The main player advantage grids add is they allow much better organization of items than lists do, as players can group items in whatever category they want, whereas with lists things are broken into a couple categories that the devs decided and the players need to work around that. How important that is comes down to how the game itself works - if the overwhelming majority of what you find is just vendor trash, then a list works fine. But the more things have non-selling uses (keeping activatable items on hand, storing a variety of different types of crafting ingredients, keeping various items for specific fights (say, fire resistance armor for a particular boss), etc) grids make life much easier for the player.
My favorite inventory has been the Dead Space grid used since DS2. The OG's list inventory was a slog to scroll through.
grid will be more expensive to implement, requiring icons for each inventory item and all, but allows for more stylization. if the player is managing less than 50 inventory slots at a time, I find grids to be acceptable on a ux level.
When it starts to get more than that, list inventories tend to be easier to manage when they have sorting and searching. list inventories are also great for the developer because adding an item only requires adding text, you don't need an icon drawn.
Honestly don't care about grid versus list. Everything else in the inventory system makes more difference to me. If the RPG has complicated stats, it shouldn't be ambiguous what each stat does. If it's a piece of equippable gear, let me quickly compare with what I have equipped. Things that seem obvious, but lots of games leave this stuff out it seems.
I've often considered emulating some of how Windows Explorer works for an inventory UI design. Especially with the use of copy/paste clipboard types of things, custom folders, etc.
Then i remember how cool yet clunky that was in Star Wars Galaxies.
I think one of the key things to a solidly done inventory system though, regardless of which approach you take, is to actually utilize fucking FILTERS.
Elder Scrolls Online UI mods highlight how useful and necessary this is (IE, advanced filters). Same goes for some STALKER mods when using a grid-based system.
And another example of a filter system would be 7 Days to Die. I can't remember if it applied to the inventory UI, but being able to just hit the craft button and type out a few letters from the name of what you intend to craft and then finally finalizing the crafting process made things so incredibly clean, fast, and easy.
One other thing I will mention is that grid systems can be nice when the variety of items and gear isn't too insane, and/or when the number of items you can carry on your person is somewhat limited.
One of those things that comes perfectly natural to PC players yet is never even considered by console players.
I think the way older shooters and such handled keycards is a bit close to what you describe, just sort of occurred to me.
Granted, those games usually didn't even have full-bore inventory systems, but under the hood it probably worked pretty much the same way as you've been describing.
Hah, that's a good point. There are times where I totally forget how console players have to handle things because I've been so used to being a dedicated PC gamer for so long.
Though admittedly, I did briefly consider how differently inventory and items tend to be handled in VR, which is still pretty weird to me.