$400K is now middle class
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Are you fucking serious
You want to know WHY all that shit is so expensive now? Because collective western governments haven't focused on:
Building and upgrading infrastructure
Training and skill acquisition natively
Instead it's always short term shit, like welfare and mass immigration, you want that 'lifestyle' not to be 400k a year? Ditch the illegals, toss welfare and work on getting the logistics at home not just to WORK but be more efficient.
This is an ongoing argument I have with my colleagues, some of whom claim to be conservative(See again: Conservatism is the enemy too). They'll go "oh but we can't fill our needs domestically so we need to import all of our doctors." Bitch, no you fucking don't. You simply need to build out the on-ramp to the profession domestically. Not enough people becoming doctors? Provide more incentive. Not enough people taking on X profession? Increase incentives. People are dumb reactive animals and will respond to incentives.
There is no good reason for us to remain dependent on foreigners for our country to continue functioning in any capacity. If we lack a skill set domestically then the response should be to cultivate that skill set rather than throwing up our hands and going "guess we need to import more barbarians."
Except the only people they give incentives to for becoming doctors are people that, on collective average, don't put in the effort. They will never let high-effort white males into med school anymore.
Well the goal is to kill us all off and rule over a disposable slave caste, so that's just efficiency right there.
I would love a slave castle. I would whip it to lower the drawbridges.
Med schools don't want more students, they want to gate-keep their profession so they can make boatloads of cash from it. When I was looking at med schools in Canada a few years ago, the head of Queen's University's medical school was making $600k a year as nothing more than a politician-administrator. They get like 80 students a year...
It's been this way for a while, but the doctors and medical establishment considers themselves too important to fail.
This is why military medics and the old MASH doctors cannot be certified in most states. Your average military pilot (if they're not a DIE hire) can get a commercial pilot's license fairly easily. A MASH doctor who has done open-heart surgery under fire cannot be legally called "Doctor."
Physicians aren't necessarily smart - but they certainly aren't lazy.
It didn't used to be like this
romanian tv a few weeks ago literally reported back to back: doctors not getting paid enough, have to pay assistants out of pocket and operate at a loss, etc
then immediately after: not enough doctors in romania, we have to import bangladeshis
the powers that shouldn't be think us as mentally retarded as the populace they wish they already had
Yeah, let's go ahead and import doctors that will give a worse standard of care than the domestic students rejected from med school. On top of that, they don't even like the natives whose lives they're supposed to be saving. Sounds great. So many "conservatives" are bread and circuses retards just like libs.
The US has for many years been favoring foreign students over American born students for doctoral residencies, to the point where there's a 5k backlog of American doctors that can't practice, and it's only been growing while they continually expand the "import foreign doctors" programs.
Also there is no oversight of foreign doctors' credentials, and the US is one of the only countries on the planet that just blindly accepts any other nation's doctoral credentials without any vetting.
The Muddle class
It's so funny how all these solutions pitched and implemented simultaneously hurt us and help the ones in power.
Don't forget printing money and heavy regulations!
It’s almost like everything politicians and government have done since the 70s is regulate any possible infrastructure advancement to the ground, squash cheap energy in nuclear, and mass import foreign workers. Funny how the constant increases in taxes hasn’t done shit to address housing, but at least we can build more NFL stadiums on the taxpayer dime!
Bitch I could do that easily with $200k/year. You're just bad with money.
My family does this with barely over 100k. I commute half an hour each way, but I don't need to be a millionaire just to afford food. City dwellers dig their own graves voluntarily and then blame "capitalism" for their own bad decisions.
Capitalism is, indeed, the source of their problems. If they were starving in a gulag somewhere under communism, the lack of rainbows on crosswalks wouldn't be even in the farthest reaches of "a problem" for them anymore.
But muh ethnic yumyums.
Amen
Definitely if you live outside of a major metropolitan area
The trick is to make metropolitan area levels of money while living elsewhere. I don't know how you pull that off short of hanging on to a really good remote job, of which there are a finite number.
Most companies adjust pay based on where the worker lives. That's what happened to me when I went remote. Took a 30% pay cut.
Long commute. Before I was remote I drove 45 minutes each way. But you gotta do what you gotta do, it was good money and really good cost of living. Got a nice 4 bedroom with 2.5 acres for $155k.
Sales bitch.
I mean he's not wrong idk why y'all are mad about it. 400k might be an overestimation but not by a huge amount. I make about 65k last year in a rural area which really isn't (wasn't) bad but post COVID insanity, inflation, and wild housing market has fucked me over considerably. It's much harder for me to live comfortably now. I probably need 80k atp to go back to how things were. And that will be hard in my area.
This is all Jew bankers or whatever globalist Satanist cult youd like to blame. plots to starve off the growth we were experiencing under Trump.
I've always made about twice my rural state's median income and now I'm considering a second job because my ability to make ends meet has been inflating away.
The problem is buying,verifying,storing and then selling when needed.
400k is an insanely massive overestimation, even if you live in an overpriced shit hole like NYC or LA. Retarded exaggerations like this don't help make a point. They only serve to weaken it.
Well thats fair, I obviously don't live in any faggot towns in Cali or NY so I figured this fella was speaking from the pov of the casual city dweller who lives in massively inflated cost of living conditions.
400k DOES seem like a lot to me, but the cost of living in cities has ALWAYS seemed insane to me. Appreciate your pov on it.
I wouldn't doubt that someone renting a 3 bedroom condo in Manhattan would need to make 400k a year to afford living.
I make $150k/yr and I could do all of that without a wife even working. And where I live, the average 3-bedroom house costs $970k.
I would just have to buy cheap products instead of the newest and shiniest. The real part that isn't talked about is that young people don't actually want this lifestyle. Young people would rather have the financial freedom to order Uber eats when they feel like it instead of being tight with money. Women want to be able to travel overseas not once every 5 years but twice a year or more. The frugal lifestyle to raise a family is not what young people in this generation want. The priority of young people is having financial freedom to waste money without feeling the impacts and always buying the latest and greatest product. You need $400k/yr to do that and buy a house and a car and raise a family. Young people don't want to be middle class from the 90s. Young people want to be upper class.
Right? My brother has almost this entire list in the suburbs of a major metro and he makes around $140k. His wife has worked in the past, but hasn't for a few years now. I'm single, have only ever made over $100k the past three years, and have two houses, two paid off cars, and certainly don't feel anywhere close to a poor person. We didn't start off with some trust fund endowment either, my parents were literally bankrupt when I graduated high school and didn't contribute a dime to either of our educations.
I've got a mid-20s friend too looking at buying a house with his wife and kid, and he makes right under $70k. It's a bit of a stretch for him, but he will probably be fine as he is generally okay not spending money to be seen as rich.
The biggest hurdle to the house, car and wife+kids lifestyle tends to be the wife from my experience. If she wants a new house in the nicest suburb in the city, with a brand new SUV and the nicest everything then you're fucked. That's $400k/yr right there. If your wife is perfectly okay with nothing then almost any guy can make it work.
Especially with regards to the unwillingness to stick it out and work up a bit. They have to have everything when they are a young 20-something and in reality all the end up doing is pissing all their money away to banks for interest on things they couldn't afford.
What they tend to piss away isn't necessarily their money but their opportunity for the husband + kids lifestyle. That's because a lot of women refuse to settle for 1 man in their early 20s since they can instead benefit from many men. Instead of 1 overseas vacations every 5 years if she stayed with 1 man, she can get 2 per year if she has "fun" with a couple different men each year who all take her on 1 trip each. And the good looking women are in fact doing this while they're young because they see it as their birth right for being good looking young women. The problem is that by the time they're ready to settle-down for the modest 3-bedroom house, car and kids lifestyle the successful men don't want her anymore. Worst of all though, her previous experiences have heightened her expectations such that she comes off entitled and overvaluing herself. When she realizes she can't get her overblown expectations met, she becomes jaded and starts to hate men.
If a vicious cycle. If women, when they were young and hot, simply picked 1 successful and quality man then supported this man, they could easily have the 90s middle-class lifestyle. For the most part, women don't want this lifestyle and by the time they decide they do, it's already too late for them.
So true. Almost all of my friends and family are the middle-class families, and guess what, almost all of them were already on that path in their early 20s.
Definitely agree here. What you leave out is purchasing power has been destroyed over the last 100 years and has really eroded in the last 3. If younger people could do a fraction of the things they want they wouldn’t complain so hard, but their money allows them to do nothing currently.
Agree here. You still need to spend your money wisely, but expenses are out of control due to runaway inflation.
So the way most families and people sustained themselves throughout the entirety of human existence?
I can tell by the tone of your incessant minging here, that you haven't "worked your hands bloody", once, in your entire life. "Risking death"? Oh, please.. Prima donna me some more drama!
You probably spent more time online complaining than you ever have working a job. Nearly all of the younger generations are exactly like you. Whining fucking complainers who never put in any effort, never developed any skills, but expect everything worth having to be handed to you in life. News flash, kiddo.. life is hard & takes work. Anything worth having takes time, effort, and hard work.
If you think you can't live and raise a family on less than 400k, it's because you are retarded child who doesn't know anything about budgeting, or how to live simply. And I hope your new profile gets banned again soon, you fucking sock puppet crybaby bitch. Get a fucking job, loser.
Exactly as expected. You are piece of shit good for nothing loser who doesn't attract women not because you are poor, but because you are an unmanly minging complaining bitch. A bitch ass faggot that deserves nothing in life, ever. A man cannot call himself a man, if he cannot even take care of himself or his family. Grow up, child.
Is he basing this on a national average? Or a place where COL is extremely high, like a coastal city?
He's basing it on something someone told him. There's no source, no research, no confirmation.
Millennials and zoomers are half fucked because they won't fucking try anything. They won't look up housing incentives offered by various states and cities to cover a down payment. They bitch about debt, without understanding the difference between good debt and bad debt and refuse to be educated on the subject.
Did the boomers fuck us? Sure, but these people won't even try to unfuck themselves. They demand the government do it for them.
Explain to me how me owing money to someone else is a good thing.
Bad debt is taking a vacation in Paris on a credit card.
Good debt is getting a bank loan to buy a work truck that you will use in a construction business to generate all the income you need to live and pay off the loan.
Not just interest -- if I take out a loan to start or expand a business and the money I make from that business/investment pays off more than the interest I'm paying, it's good debt.
Taking out a $5000 loan to get a commuting vehicle so that I can get myself to work is arguably good debt.
Taking out $300k worth of loans so I can party for 5 years at college and "earn" a bullshit studies degree is bad debt. Taking out a $35000 loan so that I can buy a brand new car is bad debt. Racking up credit card debt to buy a big TV or the latest iPhone or some other disposable electronics device is bad debt.
I think I've actually been successful with a couple people talking them off student debt. It's just so fucking stupid. The whole "college experience" sold and pushed on everyone is a pile of shit. Want a degree? Fine. I have one. I worked the entire way through and paid as I went at low-end accredited community and state school. It sucked. It was a pain in the ass. I had to fight some professors at times even, because they really don't like people that are abnormal. When I got that first post-college job with the about 50% pay increase, I felt like a rich man because I actually had a fresh start and didn't owe anyone anything.
And even then the low end school doesn't have to suck or be a pain in the ass. Cause the moment you graduate nobody ever gives a fuck about any of it ever again. All they care is that you checked the box.
Or you declare bankruptcy.
Also if you have a heart attack, your life might be over. So I guess you should never take out debt. Thanks for the life advice to never try anything! Also, good job completely ignoring the point about good vs. bad debt and instead just whining. I'm sure that isn't at all a reflection of your life situation. If $5k in debt is enough for your life to be over, you're doing things very, very wrong.
Also, kudos to you for managing to type up so many whinging posts with those hands you've worked bloody.
I figured it was something like that, but even then I'd rather just pay in full and own the asset. Having debt hang over my head, even if it's more cost effective, just doesn't sit well with me.
You have to set emotions aside and analyze the numbers. My current mortgage interest is around 3%. I can buy treasury bills that yield 5%. That's a guaranteed 2% profit I can earn for borrowing money on my house. And that's t-bills. I get a lot more than that from my stock portfolio. Hmm, pay off my 40 year mortgage tomorrow, or leave the money in my etrade account where in 5 years there's enough money there to buy 5 houses outright. Which feels better?
Well a great example is medical debt. I COULD pay it all off today. But why the fuck would I do that? There's 0 interest. I make more money the longer I string it along with zero downside.
Same with debit vs credit cards. There is 0 advantage to using a debit card. Use the credit card and keeping the balance at 0 has the exact same "debt" as using a debit card with all kinds of upside.
This is the difference between good and bad debt for a consumer.
Then don't be a farmer or run a business. You'll never have the $150k in liquid cash you need to buyout materials for the job that will net you a $50-75k profit.
That's good debt, it's debt that will make you money in the end.
You've never looked any first time home buyer incentives. This one incredibly generous, and the requirements are super loose
See? This is what I mean. You're just like most of my other millennial and zoomer friends, you guys are all doom and gloom without actually trying anything. Do you think going to your bank and talking to a loan officer costs you money? That if you get rejected they won't try to coach you on how to become eligible quickly? Why would they do that, so they don't make any money?
This is the kind of shit that has our generation tied down. We all think we know so much without knowing anything at all.
This is hustlers university level of financial literacy, just in the opposite direction.
This guy is closer to being right than the captain of industry guys who sneer about people just being lazy and wasteful.
And how much did those parents both sacrifice for those kids, and how many luxuries were there? Do you think that they had all kinds of cable and on-demand services all the time? Do you think they had AC running practically 24/7? Hell, do you think they moved into established neighbourhoods? Definitely not! They sacrificed, scrimped, and saved, and because you were a child, you saw virtually none of it. You remember the good times. The comforts your parents afforded you.
I absolutely detest these kinds of posts, because they're so utterly blind to just how far we've come. These losers want the "securities" of the past (absolutely hilarious statement), but REFUSE to live to the same standards of decades gone by. That means less electricity usage, less sq/m in a house, less services, no subscription bullshit, and just a complete lack of most modern luxuries that have become common place. The harsh reality is that the vast majority of people absolutely spend far more than they need to. Even something as relatively mundane as their phone they spend too much on.
YOU need to lower your standards and look at the negatives (compared to now) of that time before demanding the positives.
No, that's bullshit. The one person middle class salary is around $100k, so $200k for a couple.
All it does is make me feel poor.
Really? Walmart was offering $100k to start for new truck drivers with no experience.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/walmart-truck-driver-salary-pay-first-year-trucker-shortage-rcna23482
All by design.
I was doing this on $50k a year (wife is SAHM) 15 years ago and am now doing it on less than $150k. People need to get out of the stinking cities.
Seems about right, if you're in a blue state cesspool. It's about $300k/yr otherwise.
The most expensive part of that list is the 4-year college. If you're paying for 3 kids out of pocket - yeah, it's ridiculous, but most people weren't doing that in the 90's either.