Marxists are known to do shitty things and then backtrack half way if the backlash gets too much. And then seek mercy , if things get too much, appealing to Christian values of forgiveness but we all know that often times this is just a ruse, and that they will seek to try again over and over again to subvert our culture.
The Japanese diss song that said "we will never forgive or forget" would stop these marxists from using this kind of trickery. i feel like this is how conservatives should behave when people disrespect our culture. Yet it would go against Christian values. And if you suggested something like that in a western normie conservative sphere you will find conservatives bring up forgiveness is a Christian value and talk about Jesus's forgiveness. How do you feel about that? i feel sometimes like Christianity can defend cultures but it stops people from going on the offense.
This all reminds me of the demons from Frieren who prey on human compassion and mercy to get humans to let down their guard before immediately backstabbing them.
Forgiveness requires genuine contrition, which is a detail that seems to get conveniently omitted by all parties.
It all stems from a pathological aversion to conflict. People want to be "nice" and forgive their enemies in the hopes that they'll be able to avoid confrontation. It is weakness.
This, the church got heavily feminized and “forgiveness” turned from offering a path to salvation through tribulations to pure cowardice and enabling
We are called to forgive, not be fools.
Even God/Jesus doesn't forgive people who don't repent. Also, repentance isn't just saying "I'm sorry". It's actively trying to no longer commit that sin. We all fall short, but just saying sorry isn't enough.
On earth, forgiving people who are unrepentant, evil, and hate you, is the path of a suicidal fool.
Somehow in media people claim Jesus was a hippy. The hippy Jesus myth has done more damage to Christianity than anything before. Forgiveness is important but it isn't given freely.
Oh, it's gone on for longer than that. Arguably centuries.
One of these days I'm gonna sperg out and write a long essay on the topic, but to boil it down; A lot of pastors are smart, and realize the most terrifying force on this planet is a group of organized young men. So, alot of preaching acts to effectively neuter this - for some good reasons(roving bands of marauders are bad), and for some very bad reasons(you can't have powerful people getting what they deserve).
I think alot of Christians understand this implicitly, because they always shy away from really embracing scripture as written, and always fall back on more gentle interpretations.
Forgiveness is actually the right's strongest weapon since the Left literally can't replicate it, let alone use it against us. It's one of the only weapons we have that is exclusive.
However, what the Left has done for decades now is co-opt forgiveness and pretend that Christians have an obligation to forgive, regardless of the intent or actions of the Leftist tat attacks them.
If God is the literal holy father, would a good father simply forgive someone for crossing him? No, you can be forgiven IF AND ONLY IF you honestly, and earnestly, repent and regain the trust of those you have hurt. The Christian God should forgive you if you accept your Father, his judgment, his wisdom, and his authority back into your life and repent from how you have strayed.
This makes total sense, and is the correct way to actually address forgiveness. You use it as a teachable moment for those who are genuine. It is an act of mercy and wisdom from a position of strength. Forgiveness can't be properly done from a position of weakness, that is only a contrition.
Simultaneously, if you can't forgive, you admit that you are not ever going to be in a strong enough position to do so. It is an admission of permanent weakness.
"Go forth and sin no more"
There's no forgiveness without justice. It's not enough to say sorry, you must atone for your actions.
Jesus said: "go, and sin no more" not "sin but feel really bad about it"
What do you think of the that part in the bible where Jesus tells Peter to forgive 77 times?
" Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times
Matthew 18: 21-22
Genuine repentence is required for forgiveness. I cannot forgive someone who is unrepentent. Jesus often speaks in hyperbole and the point is to forgive freely, not to let someone step all over you.
This verse is as misconstrued as the "turn the other cheek" and "carry it another mile" verse.
He was talking about peaceful protest and using the system against your oppressors, not letting them walk all over you.
At the time it was perfectly legal for any Roman citizen (mostly soldiers in Israel) to make a non-citizen carry their burden for one mile, but any more was illegal. Someone slapping you was degrading, but punching someone or using your right hand was reserved for equals, by turning the other cheek you forced them to either leave you alone, or strike you as an equal.
The message is actually quite the opposite as how it's construed nowadays.
As daberoniandcheese said. This basically means "as many times as necessary" but they have to show repentance
If you've ever had a sibling addicted to drugs, you know what he means.
Forgiveness does not outweigh justice. It only means that you are not letting anger control you.
Hence the example of the dying thief being told "today you will be with Me in Paradise," not "okay, you're so sorry, cool, cool, I'll have someone grab a hammer and un-nail ya."
One comment in two years. Interesting.
Forgiveness doesn't mean not punishing them for their crimes.
It's absolutely the Achilles' heel of the right. Conservative "leadership" is half corrupt controlled opposition, and half genuine conservatives. And the genuine side are all masochists who probably spend their nights being paypigs for onlyfans whores or getting their nuts stomped on in bdsm clubs. So the corrupt side obviously wins and gets to control the right side of the political aisle, which means leftists control it by proxy.
The base of the right desperately wants to fight back, but the leadership leads them the same way Dom mods this forum: anyone fighting back gets kicked out of the club, and everyone else is ignored and neglected. It's why Trump has such cult-like supporters. He is the first leader on the right in several decades who doesn't need a magnifying glass to find his balls.
Edit: almost forgot. Dom, go fuck yourself.
Don't know how forgiveness is hurting the Right when they're actively promoting idolatry, sodomy, and heresy. Are they even in a position to forgive anything?
You can forgive your enemies and pray for their souls while trampling them under the hooves of your charger.
Forgiveness isn't an external action, it is an internal attitude. You forgive so you can detach from your pride being wounded at the slight against you and instead act from your desire to serve God.
You don't put down the rabid dog because you have hatred in your heart for the dog, even if he might have hurt you or someone you care about. You do it to prevent the future harm he will cause if you don't.
This is it, right here.
I don't hate immigrants. I think it makes a lot of sense for them to come to countries in the West, because we have the best countries. However, their very existence here is destroying us, our countries, and the culture that built them.
I don't hate people putting up Pride flags in kindergarden classrooms, but I'll tear them down and wipe my feet on their crosswalks, because likewise.
I don't even hate Jews, but they obviously hate me and I won't let them destroy me and my kids out of "forgiveness".
It's important, too, to remember that forgiveness swings both ways, not just to cuck us. If we are overzealous in our defense of Christianity, we will be forgiven at least as readily as those that spit in the face of God.
I don't think forgiveness is an issue under two conditions:
The person has suffered repercussions relative to their actions
They act like people, a lot of the commies behave more like rabid animals than people. You can't convince me those that take glee in the suffering of others especially kids because they think they have it easier than them are people than they are demons.
And they make amends. Everyone forgets making amends.
God wants to forgive everyone, but some people are going to be separated from him for eternity. Why? Because they don't want to repent. Mercy can only be given to those who actively repent. We're called to offer forgiveness to all, but it only works if they genuinely want it.
Look at the parable of the man who's debt to the King was forgiven. When he turned around and squeezed his own debtor, the King immediately rescinded his own forgiveness and held him accountable, because he was not repentant. It's a two way street.
I believe you can forgive while also having the person pay for their crime.
Thats supposed to be the whole point of prison. To reform.
Yea and sadly it doesn’t in a lot of cases
If that were true we wouldn't have so many recidivists. We'd simply hang them after a certain number of return visits.
Reform should be a tertiary goal and the primary function of prison should be to punish and make productive use of those who have been a burden to society.
"Reform" is nonsense because the vast majority of these criminals cannot be reformed. They are either incapable of being reformed because they are low IQ subhuman savages.. Or they simply do not want to be reformed. They also won't be reformed by a penal system that has (more than ever) been subverted to coddle and placate criminality.
When do they ever do that? All I see is "double down", "deny reality" and "edit historical records".
Metatron doing damage control for Thomas Lockley.
Ubisoft giving that half assed fake apology
The concept of forgiveness is a cudgel that the left uses to beat the right over the head. If conservatives were willing to be more vindictive they would win more often, but they act as though god will cast them out of heaven if they harbor ill will toward people who literally want them extinct.
The perversion of the Christian faith that has occurred in the last century or so has done catastrophic damage to us, and it will continue unless we grow a spine and stand up for ourselves instead of taking the coward's way out.
It's a terrible weakness when you've been taught the wrong definition of forgiveness and offer it for the wrong reasons.
Forgiveness is for the one doing the forgiving. To move on and not carry a burden of what someone has done against you. Accept that God will ensure the sinner face a just punishment. Repentance is towards God, who knows if it is true or not. It does not ensure freedom from worldly punishment. I'd actually argue that a Christian who broke the law should not seek to escape just worldly punishment--to the point I even wonder, should a guilty Christian enter a not-guilty plea? That's masking a sin with another sin (lying).
Nonetheless, you're right the "church" as presented in a mainstream context is a temple of Satan and does nothing more than serve to present Christianity in a negative light.
This is addressed in the bible too:
Words like rebuke and exhort are not often used in the bible in a "friendly" context. These fake Christians should be called out aggressively.
To further what you're saying, not forgiving doesn't really help the Right. What the Right needs to do is "correct, rebuke, and exhort, with great patience and instruction".
The problem isn't that Leftists are putting tutorials on how to suck dick in grade school and are being forgiven, it's that when this happens, Right wingers sit on their hands.
The Right needs to be able clearly say "no, homosexuality is not a net positive for society and we should not allow it to pervade our common culture", for example. "Trans women are mutilated men in dresses", for another. How about "not all cultures are equal and we have a moral duty to protect and advance our own"?
Until the Right can do this, forgiveness is moot because they are silently complicit.
For sure. I mean there's the other part in the bible about a false teacher being better off drowned in the sea. Half of what Jesus talked about was essentially how horrible it was to be someone who leads others to sin. Letting those people fester without even so much as being challenged, under the guise of forgiveness or love or whatever, is about as antithetical to Christian principles as you can get.
I am all for forgiveness... Only when the person is genuinely sorry.
How to understand that? Simple. Are they willingly accepting punishment?
Yes. People tie forgiveness into that whole "turn the other cheek" thing that is like "OH. Suffering is good and just accept it to be the better person." Which actually completely goes against the context of the time what was implied by turning the other cheek, which was defiance.
For all its faults and retardation, I rather like Bioshock Infinite's contribution to the discussion:
To forgive and forget those who have wronged you intentionally is to enable their behavior. Its telling them that what they did was no big deal and easily washable. Its contributing to them further sinning by teaching them that the consequences are minimal and an apology is enough to wipe the slate.
Many of the rights values don't help them. For example the prime difference between the left and the right is the right allows for the left under freedom of expression but the left does not allow for the right in their philosophy. IN fact their philosophy is basically just anti-right
I think the right can be detrimental to Christian values.
I'm more of an eye, another eye, the liver, both kidneys, the spinal cord, the tongue, and the frontal brain section for an eye kinda guy.
"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue." - Sean Connery in 'The Untouchables' , 1987.
Forgiveness is not the same thing as forgetting. That's the crucial point.
cccpneveragain said it exactly right that forgiveness is an internal action primarily meant for yourself as well.
Forgiveness is a thing for your peace not anothers, though that may be included which is a bonus! Unforgiveness is akin to drinking poison while hoping it harms the other person, doesn't make sense. Also we have a saying that if you are looking for your reward here, then you have it, my treasure is, however, stored in Heaven and the King Jesus rewards His subjects very well indeed.
Edit: Spelling
I'd probably use bio-weapons on myself if I was captured by a pack of third-world cannibals. I may die, yes - but the weapon will then continue to massacre thousands, perhaps millions of them over the years, their own feral behavior propagating the disease until their kind are driven to extinction.
Aye, forgiving is retarded, In general there's a reason I'm abit averse to Christianity, I want these fuckers to pay, not to be forgiven.
Thankfully, I'm not Christian, so I will never forgive these dirtbags. :)
Well, the left has no forgiveness at all - feel free to join them.
What people don't understand is that Christianity is not another judaism - it's not a book of law that has to be followed exactly. As a matter of fact, the New Testament is required because it shows that the Old, law-based one just doesn't work and cannot work. People become too easily obsessed by laws, rules and principles, they begin to game the system hard and all kinds of hells erupt from that.
All the unpleasant, hard to swallow messages of Christianity are meant to keep you sober and not power hungry, to have a constant reality check going. You know, vigilance being one of the greatest virtues preached by Jesus. Forgiveness is meant to force you to try and understand the opposing side, and what lead to their fall, instead of just going "they're wrong, fuck them".
You can see many examples of such people here who, were they in power, would be as terrifying and obnoxious as SJWs, if not worse, and the only difference is, well, that they're not in power. Yeah, mates, believe you're in the right all you wish - it's not like the left doesn't believe the same. What you think is right and what's right for the society are two different things and it's very easy to make a misstep and to confuse one with another.
And here we have the retarded enlightened centrist that thinks "le far right and le far left are the same"
You're certainly proving this with your aggression, you dog.
It's not aggression. It's common sense. I too, wash my hands before and after preparing a meal.