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101
Abolitionist writer Lysander Spooner, reflecting on the outcome of the US Civil War (media.kotakuinaction2.win)
posted 2 years ago by SparkMandrill83 2 years ago by SparkMandrill83 +101 / -0
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Comments (85)
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▲ 38 ▼
– SoctaticMethod1 38 points 2 years ago +38 / -0

Basically, the argument is that the North's support of emancipation was a smokescreen of setting an example of a government waging war against it's own citizens that don't wish to support them.

They have a point, especially since the American civil war WASN'T required. Why? Because the British set the example before where they simply reimbursed the owners for the slaves, freed them when they were under their ownership and then outlawed it. Then had a naval squadron to stop future slaves being brought in.

It's kind of hard to argue that it was at all required if buying off the slave owners wasn't just an option but an example that worked.

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▲ 42 ▼
– Hellsbells00 42 points 2 years ago +42 / -0

The civil war wasn't started to free the slaves to begin with, it was to retain sovereignty.

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▲ 28 ▼
– Kienan 28 points 2 years ago +28 / -0

The civil war wasn't started to free the slaves to begin with, it was to retain sovereignty.

Correct, and the holy Emancipation Proclamation was a mere war maneuver. It didn't "free the slaves" either, and in fact gave the North and any state (or even county) who converted to the North carve outs to continue to own slaves for a while.

The North was pissed the South was doing well, and wanted "their cut" of the profits.

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▲ 12 ▼
– AgilePickle1123 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

More specifically, the Jew bankers took issue with the fact they couldn’t manipulate the market since cotton and other supplies kept the South’s economy very resistant to change vs the north

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▲ 7 ▼
– -Fender- 7 points 2 years ago +7 / -0

I know that had the South separated at the time, it would have been something like the world's third largest economy, which was the primary reason the North refused to allow them to secede (since they paid the majority of all federal taxes). But were Jewish bankers really so entrenched and influential even back then that they would have been able to influence most key figures into waging a civil war? Jews are overrepresented in most influential fields today because of generations of people engaging in rampant nepotism, but back in the 18th century, it just seems like they would have had less time to set that up.

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▲ 10 ▼
– realerfunction 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0

retain and expand POWER

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▲ 22 ▼
– Adamrises 22 points 2 years ago +22 / -0

Slavery would have died on its own within enough time as the cost of keeping and using them would well outweigh simply replacing them with technology or other industries. Even assuming MAX RACISM where you treat your slaves the absolute worst and minimally possible, there is a limit where they cease to be able to accomplish the one task you have them for and replacing them is far more costly.

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▲ 9 ▼
– when_we_win_remember 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

The int'l slave trade was already banned in the US at the time of the Civil War. They wouldn't have needed any additional interdiction.

Lincoln freed the motherfuckers without any plan.

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▲ 15 ▼
– deleted 15 points 2 years ago +15 / -0
▲ 5 ▼
– when_we_win_remember 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

Thank you for the correction. I think many people thought they would go to Africa. Lincoln had the fortune, from a historical perspective, of dying before most of the consequences of his policies came to fruition. Clearly, the plan didn't work. Who's to say if Lincoln's presence would have made any difference.

And I should clarify that in the South they were freed without provision.

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▲ 8 ▼
– BlueDrache 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

The jews were making far to much money from slavery to allow this.

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▲ 6 ▼
– Tourgen 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

the civil war wasn't about slaves it was about plantation owners in debt to The City of London aka jews attempting to subvert and weaken a new country from the inside that refused to bend to international coin-clipping financiers.

it's the same fight we've been fighting from the beginning, and that we eventually lost fully by the 1940s or so.

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▲ 27 ▼
– TriangleGang 27 points 2 years ago +27 / -0

There was no reason the South shouldn't have been able to withdraw from the union under the basic tenets that formed the foundation of the country. The Declaration of Independence clearly states that governments are formed by men, and when men no longer feel that their government is serving their needs they are free to leave and start a new one.

To say that they didn't mean that to apply to the United States as well is to completely lack understanding of the frame of mind of the founders.

Unfortunately, slavery is such a morally repugnant institution that we have allowed the issue to be clouded by the fact that the North ended it. Saying that the North was the right side in the Civil War is basically an ends justify the means argument and wouldn't be any different then saying it's okay to deny due process to a particularly offensive criminal.

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▲ 9 ▼
– MassivePecorino 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

It doesn't help that any primary source scholarship that doesn't toe the line gets blasted. If slavery was the whole reason to fight the war, and less than 10% of Confederates owned slaves, why did 50% plus of the population fight or try to fight?

Razor on the Civil War. Razor on Lincoln the tyrant.

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▲ 2 ▼
– ElmoHassel 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Tom Woods' "Politically Incorrect Guide to American History" has got some traction.

A relevant quotation from a review of the book by the Mises Institute:

The Civil War—as [Woods] points out, [was] not a genuine civil war since the South did not wish to replace the national government—was not fought to end slavery: Lincoln rather aimed to consolidate national power. In opposing Lincoln’s dictatorship, the South defended the cause of liberty, a fact that was not lost on the great classical liberal Lord Acton. In a letter of 1866 to Robert E. Lee, Acton said that he 'saw in States’ rights the only availing check upon the absolutism of the sovereign will, and secession filled me with hope, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy' (p. 74).

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▲ 9 ▼
– confed 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

and thats why jefferson was never tried for treason...

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▲ 18 ▼
– TriangleGang 18 points 2 years ago +18 / -0

Yes, it would have been a trial on the legality of succession, and not a question the north wanted answered. If he was found innocent that would have meant they just spent the last 4 years killing people and ravaging the South without any legal justification.

Interestingly, after he was held without bail for 2 years, a bunch of prominent Northern businessmen pooled their money to bail him out; people who didn't share any of his beliefs but felt that he was being denied due process and that was wrong. I have often said that in the past we were a more principled people, and that sort of thing demonstrates it.

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▲ 19 ▼
– confed 19 points 2 years ago +19 / -0

they just spent the last 4 years killing people and ravaging the South without any legal justification.

pretty decent summary of the war tbh

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▲ 2 ▼
– AntonioOfVenice 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

There was no reason the South shouldn't have been able to withdraw from the union under the basic tenets that formed the foundation of the country.

Tenets don't form a country. Coercion and fear of the government does.

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▲ 3 ▼
– ElmoHassel 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Anarchist.

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▲ 25 ▼
– Kienan 25 points 2 years ago +25 / -0

It really is crazy how much actual Disinformation™ there is around Lincoln and the Civil War.

The winners truly do write history...and the winners are often evil and retarded.

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▲ 14 ▼
– Adamrises 14 points 2 years ago +14 / -0

Only the most blind retards can't see that the Civil War was two evil ideas battling each other for victory. And I doubt any of the men back then weren't capable of seeing it too, as this passage proves.

The problem being that one of those ideas was already on its way out naturally, and its natural death would have had far less growing pains on the very people it sought to "save." While the other still has us enslaved to this day.

Lincoln undid everything this nation had built on nothing but his cowardice, as his own writings and decrees showed it wasn't on any principle, and he was at least rightfully shot for it.

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▲ 10 ▼
– Mpetey123 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0

I love how two slave holding republics can go to war so one side can free slaves? The North didn't want slavery to expand westward because they were finally becoming the dominant financial and political power they always wanted to be.

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▲ 7 ▼
– alanbeam 7 points 2 years ago +7 / -0

The rank & file whites in the South didn't want it either as it took away jobs.

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▲ 9 ▼
– AccountWasFree 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

Lysander Spooner has to be one of the most interesting people in American history. Also explicitly proved that the government is an explicit monopoly that will use force to stop anyone that is even a mild threat. For anyone interested, read up on Lysander Spooners mail company that was outlawed because it provided the same service as USPS at a fraction of the cost and the state couldn't compete.

It's almost like the government has never wanted what is best for the people.

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▲ 9 ▼
– Puddinhead 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

This is taken from his pamphlet "No Treason: A Constitution of No Authority" it is an excellent read and once you read it you'll realize why it has been ignored and supressed.

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▲ 4 ▼
– AntonioOfVenice 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

The rule for all of human history has been that men may rightfully be compelled to submit to and support a government that they do not want, and that resistance makes them traitors and criminals.

It's not great, but it is a fact.

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▲ 2 ▼
– Assassin47 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Well... somebody oughta change that!

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▲ 1 ▼
– alanbeam 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Why does everyone always call baby killing "abortion " ? I mean, we all know what it really is right? Why the games ?

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▲ 5 ▼
– Assassin47 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

Are you competing to become the next Bluestorm? :)

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▲ 1 ▼
– alanbeam 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Is he someone who dislikes baby killing and baby killers? What a jerk !

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▲ 6 ▼
– Assassin47 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

No, someone who can't read and is proud of it.

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▲ 1 ▼
– alanbeam 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

But, I heard, his balls are proud of you? And he borrowed them from Mitt Romney!? Who was keeping them in John Bolton's mustache's purse..

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▲ 4 ▼
– Assassin47 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

Are you a bot or just drunk?

(edit: going with the former since you've been commenting for the past 24 hours with at most a 2 hour break between comments)

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▲ 1 ▼
– alanbeam 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Nope. Real as fuck . Sitting here, In the Soviet TooToo of Canuckjistan, retired with nothing but time to shit on you , your rat-like minion puppet masters and the demonic goblin elites trying to shit on all of us from the top of the pyramid. But we are fighting back. ( And wait to go find my posting time's? That's not creepin' ? How long did that take you Cpt. Statistics?) Here is what the farmers in Europe think of you and your weak gutless bosses. (And yes I couldn't sleep and no I didn't get stoned. OK I lied I did get stoned. But it didn't help me sleep !! Fuck!!! )

https://scrd.app/17t1I7Mg1B/

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▲ 2 ▼
– Assassin47 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

INFOWARS.COM

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 63 ▼
– deleted 63 points 2 years ago +63 / -0
▲ 2 ▼
– Tourgen 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

No it was not. This is a lie. The articles of confederation were discarded. the 1780s where an absolute shitshow. Washington, Hamilton clearly understood that a strong constitution with a strong, centralized government was required to repel foreign interlopers and build a real country. The states signed it and thereafter, for all time, you live by that law or you can pack your shit and leave.

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▲ 29 ▼
– Puddinhead 29 points 2 years ago +29 / -0

or you can pack your shit and leave

Is exactly what the South was trying to do and what the North was fighting to stop.

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▲ 26 ▼
– idrago01 26 points 2 years ago +26 / -0

how did “pack your shit and leave” work out for the confederacy?

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▲ 17 ▼
– SendTomBoys 17 points 2 years ago +17 / -0

Lmao you dumb fucking faggot, imagine being so retarded you say "pack your shit and leave" and then simultaneously crow about subjugating all the states who wanted to leave.

Fucking brainwashed.

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▲ 2 ▼
– Tourgen 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

so this place is infested with jeffersonians and jews. even jefferson admitted he was wrong after the war of 1812. Hamilton was already dead by then, tho. Get with the program. Advocating for "states rights" is advocating for your own destruction: a weak nation ripe to be infiltrated and subverted by foreign interests.

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▲ 14 ▼
– SendTomBoys 14 points 2 years ago +14 / -0

Lmao not only are you a hypocritical shitbag, you're a pussy who won't respond to anyone but yourself because you're scared they'll see what you have to say and actually respond.

Fuck you, coward.

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▲ 4 ▼
– AntonioOfVenice 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

so this place is infested with jeffersonians and jews.

Not gonna lie, I'm impressed by the mind that thought of that combination.

Advocating for "states rights" is advocating for your own destruction: a weak nation ripe to be infiltrated and subverted by foreign interests.

RUSSIAN COLLUSION!

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▲ 4 ▼
– IfThatIsWhatYouThunk 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

Advocating for "states rights" is advocating for your own destruction: a weak nation ripe to be infiltrated and subverted by foreign interests.

That sounds like the current set up allowing a constant stream of immigrants, both legal and illegal. Better to have smaller governments that are actually accountable to the people, than a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats who will never feel the direct consequences of their decisions.

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▲ 4 ▼
– Assassin47 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

jefferson admitted he was wrong after the war of 1812

How so?

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▲ 3 ▼
– ElmoHassel 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Long Live the Republic of Texas!

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▲ 1 ▼
– deleted 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0
▲ 24 ▼
– Catoblepas56 24 points 2 years ago +24 / -0

You should give it a read since it applies to you

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 12 ▼
– AccountWasFree 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

Has it ever not been your bad? You misinterpret pretty much everything you come across. And it's either deliberately so, or because you really are that fucking stupid.

So which is it, bad faith cunt, or absolute dumb cunt? I guess it doesn't matter when you're still a cunt either way.

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 1 ▼
– AccountWasFree 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Every person that self-describes themselves as a cunt tends to be the kind of person that is just an unlikeable asshole that self-deprecates to help themselves cope with the fact they're unlikeable by making it seem like it's actually on purpose, and not that they actually lack the ability to be likeable.

In fact, that's how I've seen most self-deprecation in more recent years; people desperately trying to regain control of a situation they don't have control over.

AKA it's less that you've "always been a cunt" and more everyone has always seen you as a cunt. It shouldn't be a badge of pride that people instinctually hate you.

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 1 ▼
– AccountWasFree 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Man that sounds like a whole lot of cope for being unlikeable. Just totally lacking in any sort of charisma or personality. Just a real fucking sad loser that willingly spends his free time in a place where everyone looks down on him, all so you can maintain your self imposed lie that you're unliked because it's within your control.

i don't need people to like me

Well that's what happens when all you've ever known is being disliked. Why would you want something you've never really had? That you have no concept of?

I mean self-reflect for a second: You're spending hours on here nearly every day. Clicking your profile shows a page of comments just today and just within this sub. All so you can get some attention, regardless of positive or negative, from people you openly dislike. Does that sound like a healthy approach? Does that sound like someone who has known what being liked is actually like?

There is no discernable difference between you, and the freaks that unironically embody the incel stereotype. At least the incels recognise that they're social losers rather than trying to maintain a lie for their own delusions.

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 1 ▼
– AccountWasFree 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

>digging up a month old post

Damn that's pathetic, even if it's an elaborate "troll". Here's that crumb off attention you were after, you're not getting another.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 42 ▼
– Catoblepas56 42 points 2 years ago +42 / -0

Do you know what abolitionist means?

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▲ 28 ▼
– Guyven 28 points 2 years ago +28 / -0

Add it to the list

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▲ 27 ▼
– MassivePecorino 27 points 2 years ago +27 / -0

Per Capita
Salacious
Abolitionist

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▲ 15 ▼
– Kaarous 15 points 2 years ago +15 / -0

"Thrive."

-mistook it for a misspell of three and five.

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▲ 7 ▼
– deleted 7 points 2 years ago +7 / -0
▲ 11 ▼
– Kienan 11 points 2 years ago +11 / -0

"Bad faith [argument]."

'That's how atheists argue, right?'

I mean, when you're right, you're right, I suppose.

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▲ 8 ▼
– deleted 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0
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– Vivs3rdSock 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

Salacious

Still not spelled correctly in the reports tab!

"Slacious".

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▲ 1 ▼
– alanbeam 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Cpt. Dictionaries Karened effeminate dad i presume ? Wait don't tell me? Is your name Lyle?🤣🤣🤣😅

Lyle, the Effeminate Heterosexual - Saturday Night Live https://youtu.be/59HpKD3u6ks?si=n5Qa_NK_NSlpDQoB

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 22 ▼
– SparkMandrill83 [S] 22 points 2 years ago +22 / -0

No, kike, owning slaves bad. You're bad

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 1 ▼
– BeefyBelisarius 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Slavery was a mistake. Should have picked our own cotton instead of importing boatloads of lower primates to save money on wages.

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 14 ▼
– Kienan 14 points 2 years ago +14 / -0

I really do hope you're trolling, as otherwise your seeming complete inability to hold two separate concepts in your head at the same time is truly a woeful condemnation on all of humanity.

If you're not just a psychotic troll who has been pretending to be this retarded for years, you're probably singlehandedly dropping the human race's average IQ a point or two.

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▲ 6 ▼
– SarcasticRidley 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

Buddy, why are you giving that thing the benefit of the doubt?

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▲ 3 ▼
– Kienan 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Because believing he's not actually this retarded makes humanity seem better as a whole?

If there aren't actually people this fucking braindead, that's a win for humanity. If he's a troll, that's a win.

His mere existence as a non-troll is a much bigger slap in the face than him trolling.

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▲ 5 ▼
– BeefyBelisarius 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

Sorry, pal, humanity is capable of reaching stunning depths of retardation without pretending.

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▲ 3 ▼
– x79q3pb 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

I laughed at this until I realized there's so many around, and they vote, and they they drive on the same roads as me.

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
▲ 1 ▼
– Kienan 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

If you say so.

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▲ 0 ▼
– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
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– deleted 0 points 2 years ago +0 / -0
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– Kienan 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

i don't follow, hold 2 separate concepts. mind explaining to me?

You claim you're not trolling, but then say braindead shit like this. You're incapable of understanding even single basic concepts, much less the intersection of two even basic concepts.

There's no point trying to teach you shit, no matter how ridiculously basic.

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