The problem is, you don't want local preachers turning their congregations into their own personal armies. You don't want cult leaders becoming defacto judges. ...But that's exactly what you get when you leave enforcement of the law up to the people.
...But in the case of in-progress, happening right-in-front-of-you crimes? Empowering the citizen is the way to go.
What you don't want is people taking action on crimes they were told happened the night before, because that's how you get people making up stories to get other people killed.
They're also physically much closer. Therefore they could easily find themselves facing real consequences should they fuck up too badly. When it comes to shit done at the federal level, the ones responsible may as well be living on the moon.
Thanks to the 1st amendment and separation of church and state, you only get those personal armies with cults, and normally they still have to embed themselves with some kind of government force.
Most of the time, people will hear the preachers get crazy, and just leave to go to a different church.
Jeez, a lot of these 'white leftists' sure wear funny hats and have long noses! Perhaps they are from some particular region? Italians? No that can't be right, they don't have the accent or eat pasta all the time. Germans? Well there's a lot of 'bergs and 'steins, but none of them appreciate good beer and zyklon...
Oh what a mystery where all these particular 'whites' come from!
I wouldn't call this "working", I would call this "making the best of a bad situation".
We should have police forces with monopolies on violence (with specific exceptions) because inter-personal violence is a bad way to resolve disagreements (as many in the video can now attest, if they can still speak).
But, if police forces are so weak/corrupt that the law isn't reliable, this is the correction. It will get worse, with random bikers being run over for example, until people start to insist on competent police forces and build them up again.
We should have police forces with monopolies on violence (with specific exceptions) because inter-personal violence is a bad way to resolve disagreements
One issue is, and I'm not even saying you're wrong, but the police aren't there at the scene...but people are. Police were never intended to prevent crime or protect people from direct action; they're meant to arrest criminals. They were not meant to replace people's right to self defense. Which is not to say that this was all self defense, but you get my point.
Police do have a purpose, but to say they should have a monopoly on violence (even with exceptions) is not quite as cut and dried as it might seem.
Even a competent, well-staffed police force can't deal with this kind of attack because their job is to keep things under control not get them under control; if they can shut down a societal plague like biker gangs then you have too many cops.
These vigilantes are like the immune system's killer T cells, where they go in and kill everything they see Judge Dred style because the infection is so bad collateral damage doesn't matter.
I strongly disagree. They shouldn't have monopolies on violence. Violence should be distributed freely but regulated and organized. Police or security companies should be hired as backup, but with no more rights than anyone else. (qualified immunity is huge problem) What you're seeing in Brazil is a chaotic transition state between one system to another, because the country had been overrun with criminals who expected no resistance. It gets worse before it gets better, but getting better doesn't necessarily mean control back in the hands of police departments.
This is my favorite video on the citadel. I really hope America swings this direction soon. I'd love nothing more than to watch hours of video of Death Wish style vigilantes cleaning up this country.
There are ambush schemes that came out of Rhodesia that I want to try. Top one involves a panel truck painted to look like a fried chicken delivery truck.
I don't feel bad for these guys. Not just because they are robbers, but because robbers in Brazil turn into murders at the drop of a hat. If they find a gun on you, they kill you. They really don't have any mercy for women and children, and they'll just shoot everyone if people start resisting too much.
They've learned that their violence helps with compliance, and killing people keeps them from catching charges, so they are incentivized to the maximum extent not to keep it with just robbery.
That's all robbers. The thief stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family is a favorite liberal myth. (Jean Valjean in Les Miserables) I'm sure it happens occasionally but in the western world people rob and steal because it's fun and they want to hurt other people. It's like a woman crying because she's "forced" to be a stripper to support her kids. No bitch you enjoy making it rain and you're too lazy to get a real job. Robbers enjoy dominating others and wanking off with their fellow criminals over who's the baddest of them all.
During my stint in the grocery world during my youth, those stealing food were always teens (for the thrill), junkies (stealing completely unneeded things like soda) or old ladies (stealing cat food).
I can promise that the vast majority of stores and their managers would simply let someone truly down on their luck have that loaf of bread and likely buy them more if it happened. But it doesn't.
It never does. There's homeless people who will turn down food because they're not really homeless and part of a mafia to collect money from good samaritans. Not all are like this but I've seen it more than once before.
Typically it's easier to either ask for any food for an exchange of services (I'll clean the floors and dishes for food) than steal. The only time you should need to loot for food is in a complete society collapse, I'm talking you survived an earthquake that decimated a city and all infrastructure and need food before trekking to a safe zone.
It's easier to take from someone than have to put hours of labor in, report in on time, do what you're told, and work for the man. Consequences are what matter and low IQ pieces of shit don't consider them.
The smash and grabs are proof. Less than 5 minutes effort. And with little consequence.
That's all robbers. The thief stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family is a favorite liberal myth. (Jean Valjean in Les Miserables) I'm sure it happens occasionally but in the western world people rob and steal because it's fun and they want to hurt other people.
It has happened, but it typically doesn't happen in the west. Food banks (until recently) had plenty of free food. Churches give out food. Hell, I guarantee you that if you hold out a sign for a sandwich (rather than money) someone will buy you a lunch.
Panhandlers make bank. Don't let them fool you. They certainly aren't starving.
And in France? Well, yeah, that probably did happen because of crop failures.
Unironically, that's where the wild west went. There's too much history to go over, but it's literally true.
That being said, the gun crime situation in Brazil is extreme. Cartels and Gangs dominate the Favellas, and the government just made stronger gun control. The reason you see so many "off-duty cops" shooting criminals in Brazil is because many of the on-duty ones can't carry. The punishment for stealing a cop's gun is severe, so the robbers kill every single person who they steal a gun from. The police managed to get some exceptions into the law/legal system so they could carry guns off-duty. In fact, on-duty police shootings are under even more legal scrutiny than American cops.
What this means is that even if you're an on-duty cop in Brazil, you don't want to be seen with a gun because you'll be murdered for it. You also don't want to use a gun on duty because you'll catch a charge for it. So every cop carries off-duty, and basically no one else does. And when they get into a gunfight off duty, they are much more likely to get off.
What Bolsonaro did was loosen those restrictions, and allow for more uses of self-defense.
Thanks for the insight. Aside from the obvious internet searches is there a book or article that you can recommend that goes deeper into the history. I am pretty familiar with the Portuguese era and am curious how brazil was like in 1900-current.
Cartels and Gangs dominate the Favellas, and the government just made stronger gun control.
That sounds really stupid. So naturally it's something the government would do.
In fact, on-duty police shootings are under even more legal scrutiny than American cops.
I think that is typical for most civilized countries where police can carry. Where they don't have as many shootings in general as in the US. An officer firing their gun for any reason is a really big deal.
What Bolsonaro did was loosen those restrictions, and allow for more uses of self-defense.
I think that is typical for most civilized countries where police can carry.
This is pretty extreme. One incident I was thinking of was a man who was actively cutting a woman he was holding hostage, but wasn't shot until he stabbed her fully in the chest. He was there slashing at the woman's face and neck, but the cops wouldn't shoot.
Civilized countries allow for self-defense & the defense of others, and this wasn't that. This was, what a lot of these policies do, support for criminality.
That's good. So the gun control happened earlier?
It happened decades earlier. This is what happened when socialist governments abound.
Unironically, that's where the wild west went. There's too much history to go over, but it's literally true
My personal favorite bit of Brazillian history is the fact that some remnant of the Confederacy also went there, so there are small pockets of Southern US culture bred into Brazillian one.
When the Confederacy collapsed a few thousand people moved to Brazil to escape the Union. Brazil was popular because the Emperor at the time was both a huge Confederate supplier and supporter during the war and was offering land for 22 cents an acre to them. He even helped the travel costs, guaranteed them quick citizenship and often would personally greet them on arrival.
For a lot of reasons it didn't go super well, but by the time things settled down there were about 3500 of them who just settled their area and kept going into the now. Now there are small communities that still celebrate the Confederate history simply because its their own history.
Its a very interesting place. Its been a major player throughout history and is still pretty important to a lot of elements of the world stage.
But because they speak fucking Portuguese nobody wants to talk to them. Heck their culture around black, white and pardo is a rabbit hole of deep that you could spend forever talking to people about.
The police also took a statement from the 32-year-old SUV driver, who was not named. He said the suspects had tried to rob him shortly before targeting the couple on the street.
He added that he saw the suspects in the road and tried to speed away from the scene, but he lost control and accelerated into the motorbike
I like to believe both the driver and the recording officer both had sore cheeks from winking so goddamn hard whilst that statement was taken.
"...the Brazilian government permitted the killing of motor cycle riders who rob & kill citizens..." LOL I wish.
There's no such thing as the Brazilian government allowing vigilante justice.
People do it for the same reasons the robbers do it: because you can get away with it. Police investigation is terribly inefficient, and on top of that there's a lot of corruption.
So people just started realizing they were better off just using their cars as weapons (since civilian gun ownership is quite restricted, and carry permits even more so).
Now that I got the boring part out of the way, I JUST FUCKING LOVE THESE VIDEOS. I can't get enough of them, and they're getting more common as time goes by.
I saw one where after an initial crash, another guy who was parked nearby waits for the thugs to get back on their bike and hits them again, just beautiful.
This trend seems to really be catching on, which is fantastic.
It's like a video game. Hell, I'll bet dudes are partying up and are out cruising looking for it. Fix your ride up with some shielding etc. like Mad Max.
Huh.
Whaddaya know?
Turns out community policing does work.
Policing by the government is a ~100 years experiment that has clearly failed.
The problem is, you don't want local preachers turning their congregations into their own personal armies. You don't want cult leaders becoming defacto judges. ...But that's exactly what you get when you leave enforcement of the law up to the people.
...But in the case of in-progress, happening right-in-front-of-you crimes? Empowering the citizen is the way to go.
What you don't want is people taking action on crimes they were told happened the night before, because that's how you get people making up stories to get other people killed.
I regret to inform you that many, if not a sizable majority, of actual judges are part of a cult that is waging a war on reality itself.
Legislation from the bench?!!! Never!
They're also physically much closer. Therefore they could easily find themselves facing real consequences should they fuck up too badly. When it comes to shit done at the federal level, the ones responsible may as well be living on the moon.
Thanks to the 1st amendment and separation of church and state, you only get those personal armies with cults, and normally they still have to embed themselves with some kind of government force.
Most of the time, people will hear the preachers get crazy, and just leave to go to a different church.
Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks
Comment Removed: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks
Lmao, yeah okay. Then who runs the courts and media then? Who?
Leftists. Mostly white Leftists, but Leftists.
Jeez, a lot of these 'white leftists' sure wear funny hats and have long noses! Perhaps they are from some particular region? Italians? No that can't be right, they don't have the accent or eat pasta all the time. Germans? Well there's a lot of 'bergs and 'steins, but none of them appreciate good beer and zyklon...
Oh what a mystery where all these particular 'whites' come from!
Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks
go fuck yourself you kike shill
How rude.
It works in low-corruption, ethnically-homogenous nations. That's not an option any longer in nearly every (formerly ) White country.
Bring back sheriffs.
We already have sheriffs. The point is to remove non-sheriffs.
Literal trucks of peace?
''Pick-up of the trash.''
I wouldn't call this "working", I would call this "making the best of a bad situation".
We should have police forces with monopolies on violence (with specific exceptions) because inter-personal violence is a bad way to resolve disagreements (as many in the video can now attest, if they can still speak).
But, if police forces are so weak/corrupt that the law isn't reliable, this is the correction. It will get worse, with random bikers being run over for example, until people start to insist on competent police forces and build them up again.
No government should ever have a monopoly on violence.
One issue is, and I'm not even saying you're wrong, but the police aren't there at the scene...but people are. Police were never intended to prevent crime or protect people from direct action; they're meant to arrest criminals. They were not meant to replace people's right to self defense. Which is not to say that this was all self defense, but you get my point.
Police do have a purpose, but to say they should have a monopoly on violence (even with exceptions) is not quite as cut and dried as it might seem.
Even a competent, well-staffed police force can't deal with this kind of attack because their job is to keep things under control not get them under control; if they can shut down a societal plague like biker gangs then you have too many cops.
These vigilantes are like the immune system's killer T cells, where they go in and kill everything they see Judge Dred style because the infection is so bad collateral damage doesn't matter.
I strongly disagree. They shouldn't have monopolies on violence. Violence should be distributed freely but regulated and organized. Police or security companies should be hired as backup, but with no more rights than anyone else. (qualified immunity is huge problem) What you're seeing in Brazil is a chaotic transition state between one system to another, because the country had been overrun with criminals who expected no resistance. It gets worse before it gets better, but getting better doesn't necessarily mean control back in the hands of police departments.
I dont think this happen after but it always been the case in Brazil
FUCKING
BASED
So based the gas pedal was floored.
My favourites are people coming to the aid of others. The last one gets me every time.
Kek
THIS IS WHAT COMMUNITY LOOKS LIKE
SHOW THEM WHAT COMMUNITY LOOKS LIKE
This is my favorite video on the citadel. I really hope America swings this direction soon. I'd love nothing more than to watch hours of video of Death Wish style vigilantes cleaning up this country.
There are ambush schemes that came out of Rhodesia that I want to try. Top one involves a panel truck painted to look like a fried chicken delivery truck.
I'll have to admit, that 2nd to last one with the leg made me wince
But that's the consequences for police inaction and political enabling. It's why we are hitting on the grooming angle so much
Not just to protect kids but as a warning that if you don't stop then you risk unleashing a terror of your own making.
I don't feel bad for these guys. Not just because they are robbers, but because robbers in Brazil turn into murders at the drop of a hat. If they find a gun on you, they kill you. They really don't have any mercy for women and children, and they'll just shoot everyone if people start resisting too much.
They've learned that their violence helps with compliance, and killing people keeps them from catching charges, so they are incentivized to the maximum extent not to keep it with just robbery.
That's all robbers. The thief stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family is a favorite liberal myth. (Jean Valjean in Les Miserables) I'm sure it happens occasionally but in the western world people rob and steal because it's fun and they want to hurt other people. It's like a woman crying because she's "forced" to be a stripper to support her kids. No bitch you enjoy making it rain and you're too lazy to get a real job. Robbers enjoy dominating others and wanking off with their fellow criminals over who's the baddest of them all.
During my stint in the grocery world during my youth, those stealing food were always teens (for the thrill), junkies (stealing completely unneeded things like soda) or old ladies (stealing cat food).
I can promise that the vast majority of stores and their managers would simply let someone truly down on their luck have that loaf of bread and likely buy them more if it happened. But it doesn't.
It never does. There's homeless people who will turn down food because they're not really homeless and part of a mafia to collect money from good samaritans. Not all are like this but I've seen it more than once before.
Typically it's easier to either ask for any food for an exchange of services (I'll clean the floors and dishes for food) than steal. The only time you should need to loot for food is in a complete society collapse, I'm talking you survived an earthquake that decimated a city and all infrastructure and need food before trekking to a safe zone.
"I'll clean the floors for food."
"I'm sorry, but I'm too much of a good person to do that. I will only pay you $25 an hour. Now, how many college degrees do you have?"
It's easier to take from someone than have to put hours of labor in, report in on time, do what you're told, and work for the man. Consequences are what matter and low IQ pieces of shit don't consider them.
The smash and grabs are proof. Less than 5 minutes effort. And with little consequence.
It has happened, but it typically doesn't happen in the west. Food banks (until recently) had plenty of free food. Churches give out food. Hell, I guarantee you that if you hold out a sign for a sandwich (rather than money) someone will buy you a lunch.
Panhandlers make bank. Don't let them fool you. They certainly aren't starving.
And in France? Well, yeah, that probably did happen because of crop failures.
I don't feel bad just the sight of it as no leg SHOULD bend that way, was like watching rubber
Oh God, that leg is fucked, but the adrenaline rush from the collision is keeping the guy going.
Holy shit it's like the wild west in brazil man.
Unironically, that's where the wild west went. There's too much history to go over, but it's literally true.
That being said, the gun crime situation in Brazil is extreme. Cartels and Gangs dominate the Favellas, and the government just made stronger gun control. The reason you see so many "off-duty cops" shooting criminals in Brazil is because many of the on-duty ones can't carry. The punishment for stealing a cop's gun is severe, so the robbers kill every single person who they steal a gun from. The police managed to get some exceptions into the law/legal system so they could carry guns off-duty. In fact, on-duty police shootings are under even more legal scrutiny than American cops.
What this means is that even if you're an on-duty cop in Brazil, you don't want to be seen with a gun because you'll be murdered for it. You also don't want to use a gun on duty because you'll catch a charge for it. So every cop carries off-duty, and basically no one else does. And when they get into a gunfight off duty, they are much more likely to get off.
What Bolsonaro did was loosen those restrictions, and allow for more uses of self-defense.
Thanks for the insight. Aside from the obvious internet searches is there a book or article that you can recommend that goes deeper into the history. I am pretty familiar with the Portuguese era and am curious how brazil was like in 1900-current.
Not in this case. This is mostly just what I've learned from the guys over at r/Brasillaver ? I can't remember how it's spelled.
Basically it was r-Brasil but more based because r-Brasil was rabid communists.
That sounds really stupid. So naturally it's something the government would do.
I think that is typical for most civilized countries where police can carry. Where they don't have as many shootings in general as in the US. An officer firing their gun for any reason is a really big deal.
That's good. So the gun control happened earlier?
This is pretty extreme. One incident I was thinking of was a man who was actively cutting a woman he was holding hostage, but wasn't shot until he stabbed her fully in the chest. He was there slashing at the woman's face and neck, but the cops wouldn't shoot.
Civilized countries allow for self-defense & the defense of others, and this wasn't that. This was, what a lot of these policies do, support for criminality.
It happened decades earlier. This is what happened when socialist governments abound.
My personal favorite bit of Brazillian history is the fact that some remnant of the Confederacy also went there, so there are small pockets of Southern US culture bred into Brazillian one.
Yes, that's one of the things I was thinking of.
Could you tell me more about this?
When the Confederacy collapsed a few thousand people moved to Brazil to escape the Union. Brazil was popular because the Emperor at the time was both a huge Confederate supplier and supporter during the war and was offering land for 22 cents an acre to them. He even helped the travel costs, guaranteed them quick citizenship and often would personally greet them on arrival.
For a lot of reasons it didn't go super well, but by the time things settled down there were about 3500 of them who just settled their area and kept going into the now. Now there are small communities that still celebrate the Confederate history simply because its their own history.
Thanks, this is interesting. Never really paid attention to Brazil before.
Its a very interesting place. Its been a major player throughout history and is still pretty important to a lot of elements of the world stage.
But because they speak fucking Portuguese nobody wants to talk to them. Heck their culture around black, white and pardo is a rabbit hole of deep that you could spend forever talking to people about.
Hey, I too watched Butch Sundance and the Cassidy Kid! ;)
Holy fuckin shit.
This is one of the most satisfying things I've seen in a long time.
That first truck made me burst out laughing.
The first thing that came to mind was the cover art of the first Carmageddon with Max Damage behind the wheel.
It hasn't been officially "permitted by the government." There was no such special changes in law or anything like that.
It's also not new. About one of these incidents in detail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10056619/SUV-driver-rams-motorbike-robbers-hold-couple-street-Brazil.html
I like to believe both the driver and the recording officer both had sore cheeks from winking so goddamn hard whilst that statement was taken.
"...the Brazilian government permitted the killing of motor cycle riders who rob & kill citizens..." LOL I wish.
There's no such thing as the Brazilian government allowing vigilante justice.
People do it for the same reasons the robbers do it: because you can get away with it. Police investigation is terribly inefficient, and on top of that there's a lot of corruption.
So people just started realizing they were better off just using their cars as weapons (since civilian gun ownership is quite restricted, and carry permits even more so).
Now that I got the boring part out of the way, I JUST FUCKING LOVE THESE VIDEOS. I can't get enough of them, and they're getting more common as time goes by. I saw one where after an initial crash, another guy who was parked nearby waits for the thugs to get back on their bike and hits them again, just beautiful.
This trend seems to really be catching on, which is fantastic.
It's like a video game. Hell, I'll bet dudes are partying up and are out cruising looking for it. Fix your ride up with some shielding etc. like Mad Max.
This is what the US and UK are/will come too, except those drivers will be hunted down and jailed for life.
I'm not seeing anything worse than LA or New York. While we import the third world and grow a nation of retards of our own. We're fucked.
Holy fuck, the second car in that second clip. Hahaha.
well they just killing their targets now