God said only he can forgive, point blank, no other instance in the Bible says that judgement or forgiveness is upon man over god. These heretics are worse than satanists in most cases, frankly satanists are more honest.
no other instance in the Bible says that judgement or forgiveness is upon man over god.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't feel right quoting scripture, but a quick search shows plenty of verses, including that if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you. It does seem that there's a duty to forgive.
I agree that I think modern Christians get a lot wrong, but it does seem that there's a pretty big theme of forgiveness in the doctrine, and not just from God, but from man.
Forgiving those who repent, and even then, above everything else, the Bible repeatedly states judgement and forgiveness lies solely with god. Otherwise humans would determine who sees heaven or hell, which is clearly antithetical to the entire Bible.
the Bible repeatedly states judgement and forgiveness lies solely with god. Otherwise humans would determine who sees heaven or hell
Except a human forgiving another human doesn't determine whether or not the forgiven goes to heaven. It affects the forgiver, not the forgiven. God's judgement is supreme, but that doesn't mean man doesn't share a duty to forgive.
You can forgive a sinner, and they still go to Hell, because they were not repentant. I feel like you're conflating forgiveness with absolution. I completely agree that man can't absolve man, and I think that's what the Bible backs up. Man is not the judge, but that doesn't mean they can't forgive on the personal level.
Yeah, as is still being fought about in another thread too, a lot of people think forgiveness holds some special power of judgement.
If I forgive someone, it doesn't magically give them a ticket to Heaven. It doesn't overrule God. The only person it's guaranteed to affect is me, but in this scenario where I truly want the best for someone who has wronged me, hopefully that feeling reaches them and they can get right. But that's on them.
Some people really seem to be missing the point, and acting like the act of forgiving someone is taking some power from God.
If I forgive Karmelo Anthony, that doesn't change his relationship or status with God. I'm uninvolved in that particular process.
but you know that's not why the msm and the leftie crowd is parading the apology
And you'll never find me saying otherwise, for the record. Two things can be true at the same time; people are misunderstanding the concept of forgiveness...but the father is (likely) doing it for the wrong reasons, and the media is certainly broadcasting it for the wrong reasons.
I in no way agree with the father's "forgiveness," as I don't think it comes from a good place. I also think forgiveness is good as a principle, though.
It's rare nowadays to find anyone in this site that gives Christianity a fair assessment. There was a time were I'd read good words which had to be written by true Christians, but not anymore. They've left this place and it gets angrier by the year for it.
That's a bit tricky. I believe in God, and I certainly feel most connected to Christianity, but lack the understanding to fully embrace it. I might very well be a Christian at some point in my life, but at the moment I haven't done the homework, so can in no way consider myself one. I believe in many of the concepts, but don't read the Bible, don't go to church, and don't fully understand a lot of the stuff.
Another big sticking point is, I've never really understood the salvation only through Christ concept which is, needless to say, a very core component of Christianity. I think how people behave has more to do with how close they are to God than what names they put to it. The simple little checkbox has confused me on the logical level, which I know spirituality/religion isn't about. Again, just haven't done the deep dive, and lack the understanding.
“I can list countless verses.” You can list countlessly poorly translated verses. There are two forms of forgiveness in the Bible. The Bible also has a shit ton of murder in it. The mortal version of “forgiveness” is not the same as the divine version, you don’t not have the power to forgive, you have the power for mortal “forgiveness” which literally means to dismiss or abandon when translated from the Greek texts.
must love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us,
“ If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone”
If you cannot bring yourself to forgive Karmelo, understand that if you cannot forgive others of their sins against you (a creature deserving of nothing), God will not forgive you for your sins against the Almighty
You’re literally blaspheming here. You have no power to absolve sin, that is gods power alone. The forgiveness required of you is to dismiss or abandon the person and even then it’s very murky because God specifically has his servants kill people in retribution all throughout the Old Testament.
If the murderer was muslim, the Christians will be complaining up and down about it and no Christian will ever say anything about "forgiving" the muslim..
But if its black(without islam) then suddenly the Christians are all about forgiveness.
I think people are conflating forgiveness with reconciliation a bit as well.
More importantly, I think people are conflating forgiveness with absolution. You can forgive someone who is still an absolute unrepentant scumbag, and who God declares will burn in Hell for eternity.
Man's forgiveness does not override God's judgement. Forgiveness if for both the forgiver and the forgiven, but the forgiver is the main recipient unless the forgiven repents. Forgiving someone does not override God. Some people are using that as an argument. That's not the point.
Forgiving someone does not declare them innocent. In many respects, the opposite. You're moving on, despite their transgressions. You're not going to let yourself be bogged down by their sin. What they do with your forgiveness is up to them. If they don't get right...well, you know, the thing.
Forgiveness is not for the one being forgiven, it's for the one doing the forgiving. Forgiving someone is basically saying "I'm done hating you". It doesn't mean that you don't want them to face justice. When you feel like it's right to let go of your negative feelings is up to you. I'm an atheist so I'm not going to try to back any of this up with any religious writings or preachings nor am I going to comment on whether this man should forgive his son's killer or not, all I'll say is forgive when you feel it's best to do so, not for them but for yourself. And if you never feel like forgiving them then I feel sorry for you, holding that much hatred and anger, whether justified or not, is a painful way to live. And when you allow yourself to start healing is up to you.
I’m a Christian, but that’s no excuse for defending this insane self destructive behavior we see being glorified all over the Christian world, where forgiveness is given without any repentance from the guilty party. Christianity is Truth, it is Justice, to deny either is antichrist. Don’t get me wrong, we are called to forgive those who trespass against us, but that doesn’t mean you are called let go of your emotional response when someone victimizes you or your loved ones, and it certainly doesn’t mean you shouldn’t advocate for justice when you or a loved one is victimized by somebody with evil intentions.
God indeed does command us to forgive, but He does not say when. I haven't forgotten that Jesus kicked the money changers out of the Temple. He wasn't in a very "forgiving" mood then. Righteous judgement is not denied to us as Christians.
Forgiveness is good and, in a society with a working justice system, where killers are kept segregated from society, there's nothing wrong with forgiving them, and it can usually be good for the victim.
My issue in this instance isn't the forgiveness itself, it's that I don't trust the reasons, and he's not only forgiving, but covering for the scumbag. But there's nothing inherently wrong with forgiving a killer; it's good for you, and your anger isn't going to bring your son back.
Forgiveness is good. The implementation here...yeah, big cuck energy, no argument.
I don't think it's easy at all to forgive someone who hurts you. I think it's extremely hard and don't really know if I could personally do it.
I don't think the dad did, I think he's just speaking the words he either thinks he should, or was told to.
As I said in my other comment, I agree that forgiveness is good. I don't think what's going on here is good though. It was hours later; you don't come out and forgive, and then run defense for the killer, unless there's something really wrong going on. In my opinion.
I understand the anger and doubt with the father's reaction. I have it as well. I'm mad about it, but it is his son and I remind myself I'm not carrying that grief. I just wanted to say I find your reactions seem sincere and less bombastic. So many people here are just stroking their fake hate boner ro feel important.
Jesus's sacrifice was in vain if we're forced to share a planet with savages and degenerates who engage in wanton destruction. You don't forgive someone who abused you if they don't repent. That doesnt make you virtuous, that makes you a weakling.
I think as a Christian you should eventually get to the point where you forgive them, but if you aren't initially filled with rage and have to work your way to forgiveness you're a cuck and kind of a shitbag. It shouldn't be easy to forgive your son's murderer
Yeah, and it has to be for the right reasons, too. Does this guy actually forgive the killer? I don't know, but I sort of doubt it. He's doing it to Not Be Racist™, to virtue signal, but mostly probably because he feels like he's helping the country, if the Community Relations Service really did pay him a visit. He feels like a Good Guy, who's holding the country together, or something. Or he was straight up threatened.
Either way, his behavior isn't doing anything to lessen racial tensions. Quite the opposite, especially with how the shitbag killer and his shitbag family are behaving despite the declaration of forgiveness.
Ideally that is what you should get to. My mom was abandoned by her dad and didn’t have any sort of relationship with him until she was in her early 50s and she forgave him. I can definitely understand anger and most people would have to wait a while before they could reach the stage of forgiveness. Karmelo shows zero remorse and seems to have created a fantasy that he was totally innocent.
Jesus did tell Peter about forgiving people 70 times 7 times. If he is being sincere and not saying what he thinks people want to hear then I’m very impressed by Metcalf’s dad
This is why all white nations are being taken over by outsiders......... the "not the right christian" has the same energy as "not the right communist". Christianity has not been the same since like 1800 lol. Its just lame and gay these days.
“God commands us to forgive”
God said only he can forgive, point blank, no other instance in the Bible says that judgement or forgiveness is upon man over god. These heretics are worse than satanists in most cases, frankly satanists are more honest.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't feel right quoting scripture, but a quick search shows plenty of verses, including that if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you. It does seem that there's a duty to forgive.
I agree that I think modern Christians get a lot wrong, but it does seem that there's a pretty big theme of forgiveness in the doctrine, and not just from God, but from man.
Forgiving those who repent, and even then, above everything else, the Bible repeatedly states judgement and forgiveness lies solely with god. Otherwise humans would determine who sees heaven or hell, which is clearly antithetical to the entire Bible.
Except a human forgiving another human doesn't determine whether or not the forgiven goes to heaven. It affects the forgiver, not the forgiven. God's judgement is supreme, but that doesn't mean man doesn't share a duty to forgive.
You can forgive a sinner, and they still go to Hell, because they were not repentant. I feel like you're conflating forgiveness with absolution. I completely agree that man can't absolve man, and I think that's what the Bible backs up. Man is not the judge, but that doesn't mean they can't forgive on the personal level.
Forgiveness is not absolution for the sinner.
Not true, the duty to forgive comes after repentance for the sin. The only argument so far with that is what determines repentance.
Yeah, why god didn't forgive sodom and gomorrah? Is he a fascist or something?
/s
You have to repent before forgiving someone.
There is a Christian theme of forgiving those that repent. The repentance is just as important as the forgiving.
Yeah, as is still being fought about in another thread too, a lot of people think forgiveness holds some special power of judgement.
If I forgive someone, it doesn't magically give them a ticket to Heaven. It doesn't overrule God. The only person it's guaranteed to affect is me, but in this scenario where I truly want the best for someone who has wronged me, hopefully that feeling reaches them and they can get right. But that's on them.
Some people really seem to be missing the point, and acting like the act of forgiving someone is taking some power from God.
If I forgive Karmelo Anthony, that doesn't change his relationship or status with God. I'm uninvolved in that particular process.
That's fair, but you know that's not why the msm and the leftie crowd is parading the apology
And you'll never find me saying otherwise, for the record. Two things can be true at the same time; people are misunderstanding the concept of forgiveness...but the father is (likely) doing it for the wrong reasons, and the media is certainly broadcasting it for the wrong reasons.
I in no way agree with the father's "forgiveness," as I don't think it comes from a good place. I also think forgiveness is good as a principle, though.
It's rare nowadays to find anyone in this site that gives Christianity a fair assessment. There was a time were I'd read good words which had to be written by true Christians, but not anymore. They've left this place and it gets angrier by the year for it.
That's a bit tricky. I believe in God, and I certainly feel most connected to Christianity, but lack the understanding to fully embrace it. I might very well be a Christian at some point in my life, but at the moment I haven't done the homework, so can in no way consider myself one. I believe in many of the concepts, but don't read the Bible, don't go to church, and don't fully understand a lot of the stuff.
Another big sticking point is, I've never really understood the salvation only through Christ concept which is, needless to say, a very core component of Christianity. I think how people behave has more to do with how close they are to God than what names they put to it. The simple little checkbox has confused me on the logical level, which I know spirituality/religion isn't about. Again, just haven't done the deep dive, and lack the understanding.
It’s the same picture.
It’s not. The Bible in the original Greek expressly differentiated between mortal and divine forms of forgiveness.
I meant heretics and satanists.
Please, please, please, show me anywhere where the burden of judgement or forgiveness is placed on man over god, I’ll wait.
Sooo you have no actual argument other than blaspheming?
“I can list countless verses.” You can list countlessly poorly translated verses. There are two forms of forgiveness in the Bible. The Bible also has a shit ton of murder in it. The mortal version of “forgiveness” is not the same as the divine version, you don’t not have the power to forgive, you have the power for mortal “forgiveness” which literally means to dismiss or abandon when translated from the Greek texts.
“ If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone”
You’re literally blaspheming here. You have no power to absolve sin, that is gods power alone. The forgiveness required of you is to dismiss or abandon the person and even then it’s very murky because God specifically has his servants kill people in retribution all throughout the Old Testament.
Born-again Christian here.
Forgiveness is nothing without change.
And you still have to receive earthly punishment for your earthly crimes.
Render unto scumbags.
Jesus demonstrated righteous anger.
When he found the moneylenders in the temple, he was utterly furious; but he contemplated the situation for four days before he confronted them.
He even took the time to plat his own whip before scourging them, flipping tables and kicking them out of the temple.
Don't be a pussy Christian, be this kind of Christian.
Most modern Christians are only in it for the tradition and the ceremony. Doing any of the hard parts is enough to get them to abandon their faith.
If the murderer was muslim, the Christians will be complaining up and down about it and no Christian will ever say anything about "forgiving" the muslim..
But if its black(without islam) then suddenly the Christians are all about forgiveness.
'when I'm weaker than you I ask you to be a doormat because is within your religion.
When I'm stronger than you, I walk over you, because I think your religion is fake and gay'
-guy from dune, probably
Forgive, but that doesn’t mean all issues are gone. Forgiveness does not eliminate the consequences of whatever the sin was.
Forgive and forget are is not suitable for all cases. Forgive, but if a grievance is bad enough, forgetting is irresponsible.
I think people are conflating forgiveness with reconciliation a bit as well. You can forgive someone and never have anything to do with them again.
I agree, it’s a very effective lie.
More importantly, I think people are conflating forgiveness with absolution. You can forgive someone who is still an absolute unrepentant scumbag, and who God declares will burn in Hell for eternity.
Man's forgiveness does not override God's judgement. Forgiveness if for both the forgiver and the forgiven, but the forgiver is the main recipient unless the forgiven repents. Forgiving someone does not override God. Some people are using that as an argument. That's not the point.
Forgiving someone does not declare them innocent. In many respects, the opposite. You're moving on, despite their transgressions. You're not going to let yourself be bogged down by their sin. What they do with your forgiveness is up to them. If they don't get right...well, you know, the thing.
Forgiveness is not for the one being forgiven, it's for the one doing the forgiving. Forgiving someone is basically saying "I'm done hating you". It doesn't mean that you don't want them to face justice. When you feel like it's right to let go of your negative feelings is up to you. I'm an atheist so I'm not going to try to back any of this up with any religious writings or preachings nor am I going to comment on whether this man should forgive his son's killer or not, all I'll say is forgive when you feel it's best to do so, not for them but for yourself. And if you never feel like forgiving them then I feel sorry for you, holding that much hatred and anger, whether justified or not, is a painful way to live. And when you allow yourself to start healing is up to you.
I’m a Christian, but that’s no excuse for defending this insane self destructive behavior we see being glorified all over the Christian world, where forgiveness is given without any repentance from the guilty party. Christianity is Truth, it is Justice, to deny either is antichrist. Don’t get me wrong, we are called to forgive those who trespass against us, but that doesn’t mean you are called let go of your emotional response when someone victimizes you or your loved ones, and it certainly doesn’t mean you shouldn’t advocate for justice when you or a loved one is victimized by somebody with evil intentions.
Forgiveness requires contrition.
God indeed does command us to forgive, but He does not say when. I haven't forgotten that Jesus kicked the money changers out of the Temple. He wasn't in a very "forgiving" mood then. Righteous judgement is not denied to us as Christians.
Easter is tomorrow and your stupid ass is insulting fellow Christians? Or are you a fellow Christian? Just post your retarded weeb shit.
Reminder to everyone that this is what this Mpetey123 said
https://archive.md/mEpEt
You think forgiving murderers is perfectly fine and you are angry with me for pointing out what a cuck move that is.
In a perfect world, he's correct.
Forgiveness is good and, in a society with a working justice system, where killers are kept segregated from society, there's nothing wrong with forgiving them, and it can usually be good for the victim.
My issue in this instance isn't the forgiveness itself, it's that I don't trust the reasons, and he's not only forgiving, but covering for the scumbag. But there's nothing inherently wrong with forgiving a killer; it's good for you, and your anger isn't going to bring your son back.
Forgiveness is good. The implementation here...yeah, big cuck energy, no argument.
Yes, I don't begrudge a guy making a personal choice to find peace in his life after his son was killed.
I'm angry that you would attack a hard decision from someone suffering so you can stroke your ego playing internet tough guy.
I don't think it's easy at all to forgive someone who hurts you. I think it's extremely hard and don't really know if I could personally do it.
Are you even a Christian, I noticed you didn't answer that?
I don't think the dad did, I think he's just speaking the words he either thinks he should, or was told to.
As I said in my other comment, I agree that forgiveness is good. I don't think what's going on here is good though. It was hours later; you don't come out and forgive, and then run defense for the killer, unless there's something really wrong going on. In my opinion.
I understand the anger and doubt with the father's reaction. I have it as well. I'm mad about it, but it is his son and I remind myself I'm not carrying that grief. I just wanted to say I find your reactions seem sincere and less bombastic. So many people here are just stroking their fake hate boner ro feel important.
Same here but I’d like to believe I would be able to forgive
Bro is an illiterate heretic with massive projection issues.
Probably Lutheran or some other gay sect.
Jesus's sacrifice was in vain if we're forced to share a planet with savages and degenerates who engage in wanton destruction. You don't forgive someone who abused you if they don't repent. That doesnt make you virtuous, that makes you a weakling.
Europe would've been long gone had the Crusaders been hippy useless faggots like them forgiving the mudslimes for invading the European countries.
Redemption comes with a cost.
there is no forgiveness without repentance.
I think as a Christian you should eventually get to the point where you forgive them, but if you aren't initially filled with rage and have to work your way to forgiveness you're a cuck and kind of a shitbag. It shouldn't be easy to forgive your son's murderer
Yeah, and it has to be for the right reasons, too. Does this guy actually forgive the killer? I don't know, but I sort of doubt it. He's doing it to Not Be Racist™, to virtue signal, but mostly probably because he feels like he's helping the country, if the Community Relations Service really did pay him a visit. He feels like a Good Guy, who's holding the country together, or something. Or he was straight up threatened.
Either way, his behavior isn't doing anything to lessen racial tensions. Quite the opposite, especially with how the shitbag killer and his shitbag family are behaving despite the declaration of forgiveness.
Fuck all of them.
ALSO THIS
THIS
Ideally that is what you should get to. My mom was abandoned by her dad and didn’t have any sort of relationship with him until she was in her early 50s and she forgave him. I can definitely understand anger and most people would have to wait a while before they could reach the stage of forgiveness. Karmelo shows zero remorse and seems to have created a fantasy that he was totally innocent.
Jesus did tell Peter about forgiving people 70 times 7 times. If he is being sincere and not saying what he thinks people want to hear then I’m very impressed by Metcalf’s dad
Given the existence of the CRS and how that trend only seems to ever go one way, I press X to doubt.
This is why all white nations are being taken over by outsiders......... the "not the right christian" has the same energy as "not the right communist". Christianity has not been the same since like 1800 lol. Its just lame and gay these days.
This thread is so awash in heresy I have the urge to call for cleansing fire.
"Forgiveness is for the forgiver" puke