no other instance in the Bible says that judgement or forgiveness is upon man over god.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't feel right quoting scripture, but a quick search shows plenty of verses, including that if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you. It does seem that there's a duty to forgive.
I agree that I think modern Christians get a lot wrong, but it does seem that there's a pretty big theme of forgiveness in the doctrine, and not just from God, but from man.
Forgiving those who repent, and even then, above everything else, the Bible repeatedly states judgement and forgiveness lies solely with god. Otherwise humans would determine who sees heaven or hell, which is clearly antithetical to the entire Bible.
the Bible repeatedly states judgement and forgiveness lies solely with god. Otherwise humans would determine who sees heaven or hell
Except a human forgiving another human doesn't determine whether or not the forgiven goes to heaven. It affects the forgiver, not the forgiven. God's judgement is supreme, but that doesn't mean man doesn't share a duty to forgive.
You can forgive a sinner, and they still go to Hell, because they were not repentant. I feel like you're conflating forgiveness with absolution. I completely agree that man can't absolve man, and I think that's what the Bible backs up. Man is not the judge, but that doesn't mean they can't forgive on the personal level.
Yeah, as is still being fought about in another thread too, a lot of people think forgiveness holds some special power of judgement.
If I forgive someone, it doesn't magically give them a ticket to Heaven. It doesn't overrule God. The only person it's guaranteed to affect is me, but in this scenario where I truly want the best for someone who has wronged me, hopefully that feeling reaches them and they can get right. But that's on them.
Some people really seem to be missing the point, and acting like the act of forgiving someone is taking some power from God.
If I forgive Karmelo Anthony, that doesn't change his relationship or status with God. I'm uninvolved in that particular process.
but you know that's not why the msm and the leftie crowd is parading the apology
And you'll never find me saying otherwise, for the record. Two things can be true at the same time; people are misunderstanding the concept of forgiveness...but the father is (likely) doing it for the wrong reasons, and the media is certainly broadcasting it for the wrong reasons.
I in no way agree with the father's "forgiveness," as I don't think it comes from a good place. I also think forgiveness is good as a principle, though.
It's rare nowadays to find anyone in this site that gives Christianity a fair assessment. There was a time were I'd read good words which had to be written by true Christians, but not anymore. They've left this place and it gets angrier by the year for it.
That's a bit tricky. I believe in God, and I certainly feel most connected to Christianity, but lack the understanding to fully embrace it. I might very well be a Christian at some point in my life, but at the moment I haven't done the homework, so can in no way consider myself one. I believe in many of the concepts, but don't read the Bible, don't go to church, and don't fully understand a lot of the stuff.
Another big sticking point is, I've never really understood the salvation only through Christ concept which is, needless to say, a very core component of Christianity. I think how people behave has more to do with how close they are to God than what names they put to it. The simple little checkbox has confused me on the logical level, which I know spirituality/religion isn't about. Again, just haven't done the deep dive, and lack the understanding.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't feel right quoting scripture, but a quick search shows plenty of verses, including that if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you. It does seem that there's a duty to forgive.
I agree that I think modern Christians get a lot wrong, but it does seem that there's a pretty big theme of forgiveness in the doctrine, and not just from God, but from man.
Forgiving those who repent, and even then, above everything else, the Bible repeatedly states judgement and forgiveness lies solely with god. Otherwise humans would determine who sees heaven or hell, which is clearly antithetical to the entire Bible.
Except a human forgiving another human doesn't determine whether or not the forgiven goes to heaven. It affects the forgiver, not the forgiven. God's judgement is supreme, but that doesn't mean man doesn't share a duty to forgive.
You can forgive a sinner, and they still go to Hell, because they were not repentant. I feel like you're conflating forgiveness with absolution. I completely agree that man can't absolve man, and I think that's what the Bible backs up. Man is not the judge, but that doesn't mean they can't forgive on the personal level.
Forgiveness is not absolution for the sinner.
Not true, the duty to forgive comes after repentance for the sin. The only argument so far with that is what determines repentance.
Yeah, why god didn't forgive sodom and gomorrah? Is he a fascist or something?
/s
You have to repent before forgiving someone.
There is a Christian theme of forgiving those that repent. The repentance is just as important as the forgiving.
Yeah, as is still being fought about in another thread too, a lot of people think forgiveness holds some special power of judgement.
If I forgive someone, it doesn't magically give them a ticket to Heaven. It doesn't overrule God. The only person it's guaranteed to affect is me, but in this scenario where I truly want the best for someone who has wronged me, hopefully that feeling reaches them and they can get right. But that's on them.
Some people really seem to be missing the point, and acting like the act of forgiving someone is taking some power from God.
If I forgive Karmelo Anthony, that doesn't change his relationship or status with God. I'm uninvolved in that particular process.
That's fair, but you know that's not why the msm and the leftie crowd is parading the apology
And you'll never find me saying otherwise, for the record. Two things can be true at the same time; people are misunderstanding the concept of forgiveness...but the father is (likely) doing it for the wrong reasons, and the media is certainly broadcasting it for the wrong reasons.
I in no way agree with the father's "forgiveness," as I don't think it comes from a good place. I also think forgiveness is good as a principle, though.
It's rare nowadays to find anyone in this site that gives Christianity a fair assessment. There was a time were I'd read good words which had to be written by true Christians, but not anymore. They've left this place and it gets angrier by the year for it.
That's a bit tricky. I believe in God, and I certainly feel most connected to Christianity, but lack the understanding to fully embrace it. I might very well be a Christian at some point in my life, but at the moment I haven't done the homework, so can in no way consider myself one. I believe in many of the concepts, but don't read the Bible, don't go to church, and don't fully understand a lot of the stuff.
Another big sticking point is, I've never really understood the salvation only through Christ concept which is, needless to say, a very core component of Christianity. I think how people behave has more to do with how close they are to God than what names they put to it. The simple little checkbox has confused me on the logical level, which I know spirituality/religion isn't about. Again, just haven't done the deep dive, and lack the understanding.