Its like microtransactions. 8 years ago, people rejected it. Now.. most people accept it and it seems if you speak out, they call you man babies or go touch grass.
Slippery slope is real. All the cancerous crap we endure today is because of it. Trannies, microtransaction, national debt, crime.
Exactly my thoughts. If they don't implement it in this game then they will do it in a future game. They will also make it a requirement to get PS+. That's their moneymaker right there.
Something tells me you're right, they'll just play the long game. These games will all require PSN accounts and they'll be mandatory. They're just relenting in the here and now because of the massive fuck up it's been.
I still say that they should have done it the soft way. Make PSN creating and linking optional. If you don't do it, you can't cross play with PS players. It's that simple. I mean heck, people have also mentioned they would do it if they were incentivized. A skin, or some in game currency or something to sweeten the deal.
All of this is just a bargain with the devil, The game itself has nothing that would require the amount of centralization they are after except for their own micro transactions. And if we look into the past in regards to micro transaction that were on a similar end, or look into to fallout paid mods debacle. Unless the pressure is on this will only be a speedbump and then sony goes back right onto track.
You create/fund a massively popular game, then you tank it so hard that Steam won't even cover for you like they normally do when a game gets "review bombed". Good job Sony.
Even with this backtrack you aren't getting that goodwill back. You could've continued selling the game for $40 almost indefinitely on that goodwill and people still would've bought your game for that even years out. But now you've made people hesitant to buy it even if it's on sale. I haven't seen a fuckup this colossal on a released game maybe ever.
tank it so hard that Steam won't even cover for you like they normally do when a game gets "review bombed".
I think steam is probably more than happy to let any publisher get curbstomped for trying to cram their third party logins or launchers down customers throats.
They might cover for other shitty business practices with "off-topic review" bullshit, but Valve likes the loyalty being the biggest userbase launcher brings, they're not gonna help anyone usurp that even a little.
The fact that Steam didn't actually remove negative reviews was real refreshing, usually these scummy fucks cover for big woke companies but this time they didn't, they also granted refunds to those who played more than 2 hours because EU/Aussie consumer protection laws (though americans have none of that shit)
i think its the pressure of the negative reviews and refunds that pressured them to reverse that decision, usually they just treat their customers like garbage and expect the people to continue as "usual" but they outjew'd their hand to the point where everyone on twitter/youtube knew about their schemes (the leaked "we are using playstation network to ban people we don't like")
though gamers precieve it as a "victory" but if i was granted a refund i'd take it leave this company to its own devices, since the "community managers" are literal trannieswho HATE gamers with a burning passion, until these subversive degenerates are purged from the company, only then and there will my faith in this company will be restored
otherwise continue to precieve them as hostile because that's usually the case, hell i bet in 2 months (or even 1 month) they'll try to sneakily add the playstation network thing again, albit with better PR
For Arrowhead, a few community managers who were less damage control more adding fuel by antagonising the community.
From Sony, a LOT of executives and managers need to go. The people that thought this was a good idea and tried to implement this being high on the list. We still don't know if Helldivers 2 will recover after 2 days of immense negativity, if it wasn't for the communication of their CEO I'd say it couldn't but it'll take time.
Sony did a power grab and blinked so they have lost A TON of reputation for nothing and have now taught gamers to fight back HARD for results.
I fully agree with you on this but execs will just reflect and work better to understand their customers for next time.
Still, it was nice to see our tiny community of 12 racist misogynists completely knock out the entirety of those who label us thus. I hope all the fresh blood in the industry that wants to succeed remember this and Gawker when it comes to basic respect for a consumer group.
I hope gamers remember this win and learn to replicate the same again with any other game worth fighting for (as let's be honest, we'll fight for a Stellar Blade but NO ONE gives a shit about suicide squad).
I'll laugh if the Helldivers community becomes a training camp on how to organise and fight against horrible business decisions in the gaming industry.
Keep in mind that Helldivers 2's whole design was around fighting for a unified cause.
The developers ironically designed atmosphere that mentally trained everyone to focus with incessant diligence on a singular mission for "Super Earth".
As much as it was/is a meme, it's also something DARPA has probably been watching with keen eyes as people from around the world came together to achieve a singular mission using the exact same tactics that the game taught them to use, and for a cause that the game taught them to fight for.
Within two days you had a quarter of a million negative reviews from people across more than 150 countries using the platform to send Sony a very obvious message.
I think it worked well in the Helldivers 2 case because the game managed to build people's psychological profile to enact the exact kind of action that was required to get these kind of results.
As you stated, no one is going to fight like this for Suicide Squad because no one cares. Will people fight this hard for Stellar Blade? Maybe. It depends. But the Helldivers 2 case is a unique one because I've seen a lot of people say that they scored a hard-fought victory just like Melovan Creek, so they've likened this activism to the same kind of grinding they did in the actual game.
This is valid, but don't underestimate how stupid the move was on Sony's part. They literally made the game unplayable in any country where PSN isn't available (which is dumb in the first place).
Stellar Blade censorship is a bitch move, but the game is at least still playable.
have now taught gamers to fight back HARD for results
This is not news, it's just rarely been successful because what's necessary is for the response to be instantaneous.
It's kinda like artillery. How long you bombard a target has basically no impact on effectiveness. The effectiveness is determined by how much boom you get in the opening seconds of the barrage. Once the survivors are in cover you're not doing any damage.
It's kinda like artillery. How long you bombard a target has basically no impact on effectiveness. The effectiveness is determined by how much boom you get in the opening seconds of the barrage.
Don't know about that, I do like the Death Korps of Kreig mentality of bombing an area for centuries until there is nothing left THEN accepting their surrender lol.
True story, the US Army did casualty analyses of WW1 and determined that artillery barrages have a diminishing returns effect as survivors get into cover. It's what governed the development of time-on-target missions, to maximize the amount of metal falling in the opening seconds.
Time-on-target: Rather than assigning a battery to shell a target for a period of time, a central HQ directs ALL available batteries to put a couple shells on target, synchronized so that all shells arrive at the same time regardless of travel distance. MRSI (multiple-round-simultaneous-impact) takes the same concept and uses different powder charges and elevations in the same gun to get even more rounds to arrive at the same time
So if you were to, say, bomb a city to kill certain leaders, it would be totally pointless to continue for months? Especially if you knew they had a vast network of underground tunnels?
Oh I don't question the reality of what you are saying, I just have enough bitterness that even if they surrendered I'm going to say 'continue the barrage' till there's only a hole in the ground..
I do question it, because it ignores the purpose of artillery as suppression, morale killer and area denial. I mean for God's sakes we have a modern day trench warfare situation right now as plain as day as an example to draw from.
Too bad a large amount of people already refunded it and almost certainly aren't coming back.
Its a real lose lose here. Because now they've already lost the money and good will, but also look weak and pathetic by backtracking on it. Especially as we all know they only did it because the backlash was getting bad enough to fuck up their big conference call soon.
They might actually just be trying to stem the refund tide. The game has already sold crazy well, they probably have more to lose from existing purchases than new ones.
All the refunds past the guaranteed grace period are at valve's discretion. They were refusing at least some refunds at the start of the shitstorm, maybe by undoing the announcement they're hoping to not lose any more of their banked sales by not giving valve good reason to approve any more refunds.
Meanwhile it's still forced always online DRM for a perr to peer game, still has rootkit malware "anticheat" bundled with it that can fuck up your system and is beyond layman ability to remove without a clean OS reinstall, and still has freemium cancer.
Yep, the game could be done with even the seasons passes without all that shit, just look at Deep rock galactic for a modern example. Or you can look at their older titles when the studios could develop stuff without it...
The damage is still done. People know that the sword of Damocles is hanging over their heads now. I'm sure some will go crawling back, but their success will never be what it was before all of this.
The fact that Arrowhead knew all of this was coming six months ago and didn't say anything is absurd. If these AA developers are going to act no differently than the AAA studios, they will be going down with them in the coming crash. Fuck Arrowhead. Fuck Shift Up. Fuck Sony.
The fact that Arrowhead knew all of this was coming six months ago and didn't say anything is absurd.
Everyone at that studio should probably have thier social media revoked, because I've never seen a sadder bunch of attempts at dispelling controversy that watching their CM and CEO keep stepping on landmines and making the situation sound worse.
you already know this, but most people are midwits at best. you could probably do better, and you should try. start today. do it now. making a game is rough work but it is doable. Look at Helldivers (the first game). You can make this in Godot.
Arrowhead knew all of this was coming six months ago and didn't say anything is absurd
In Arrowhead's defense, they never anticipated six months ago how much this game would blow up. They then spent weeks in crunch time just trying to keep the servers alive. Then Sony starts demanding that they crack down on PSN linking even though Sony, who is in charge of sales, sold the game in countries with no PSN support. Sony deserves the bulk of the blame here.
A lie of omission is still a lie. Arrowhead is equally guilty, just like Shift Up is for their mess. "Just following orders" will never earn any sympathy from me.
The real issue at the end of the day was that Sony willfully listed the game on Steam in regions that cannot (without breaking ToS) create a PSN account. Even if the account linking requirement was supposed to be in from the start and only got kicked down the road due to server issues, Sony created a shitstorm largely because of how widely listed the game was. Arrowhead isn't to blame for that aspect at the very least, because the reason studios opt for a publisher is to manage logistics, like where to sell the game.
I haven't once said that Arrowhead is entirely to blame, so I don't know why people keep responding to me as if I did. Go read the responses that Arrowhead employees were making to angry gamers on Twitter over this and see if you are still so willing to go to the mat for them.
Arrowhead knew this was coming since before they launched and didn't say anything about it to warn their customers. And then when customers were upset, they laughed in their faces and told them to go fuck themselves. They have plenty of responsibility for the problem that has absolutely nothing to do with Sony. So once again, they are equally responsible here, and no amount of "bu bu but Sony!" is going to convince me otherwise.
I think the damage is done, sorry Sony. I was going to try this game at some point, but now I don't have confidence that my efforts can't or won't be ripped away from me.
Same. I had it on wishlist, but took it off at the "AcKsHuAlLy, it's woke AF, because we have women and blacks" nonsense, that and I figure it's best played with a regular group of buddies, which I don't exactly have right now.
Arrowhead can still get themselves out of this hole, but Sony is basically making it clear they can't be trusted ever again. I dropped PS4 at the California move and saw how they started treating Japanese devs.
Fuck off and die SOYNY and take helldivers with you. I would be very disappointed if people went back to this game. It would be as equally pathetic of a weak backtrack of the helldivers community to return as it was for SOYNY to backtrack their decision. They need to eat those class action law suits and this game NEEDS to fail.
That sounds like 'we'll just do it later' talk.
Its like microtransactions. 8 years ago, people rejected it. Now.. most people accept it and it seems if you speak out, they call you man babies or go touch grass.
Slippery slope is real. All the cancerous crap we endure today is because of it. Trannies, microtransaction, national debt, crime.
All rooted at the feet of people that say "it's ok". Fuck the participation trophy tards.
Exactly my thoughts. If they don't implement it in this game then they will do it in a future game. They will also make it a requirement to get PS+. That's their moneymaker right there.
Something tells me you're right, they'll just play the long game. These games will all require PSN accounts and they'll be mandatory. They're just relenting in the here and now because of the massive fuck up it's been.
I still say that they should have done it the soft way. Make PSN creating and linking optional. If you don't do it, you can't cross play with PS players. It's that simple. I mean heck, people have also mentioned they would do it if they were incentivized. A skin, or some in game currency or something to sweeten the deal.
All of this is just a bargain with the devil, The game itself has nothing that would require the amount of centralization they are after except for their own micro transactions. And if we look into the past in regards to micro transaction that were on a similar end, or look into to fallout paid mods debacle. Unless the pressure is on this will only be a speedbump and then sony goes back right onto track.
The desperation of it make me think the Stellar Blade/PSN cancellations hit them pretty hard.
You create/fund a massively popular game, then you tank it so hard that Steam won't even cover for you like they normally do when a game gets "review bombed". Good job Sony.
Even with this backtrack you aren't getting that goodwill back. You could've continued selling the game for $40 almost indefinitely on that goodwill and people still would've bought your game for that even years out. But now you've made people hesitant to buy it even if it's on sale. I haven't seen a fuckup this colossal on a released game maybe ever.
I think steam is probably more than happy to let any publisher get curbstomped for trying to cram their third party logins or launchers down customers throats.
They might cover for other shitty business practices with "off-topic review" bullshit, but Valve likes the loyalty being the biggest userbase launcher brings, they're not gonna help anyone usurp that even a little.
Also this has potential to be mutli national class action lawsuit and breaking EU laws, valve isn't going to cover for Sony
Not even close, that's just failure to deliver, this would be like making GTA Online only available to Rockstar members after 10 years.
The fact that Steam didn't actually remove negative reviews was real refreshing, usually these scummy fucks cover for big woke companies but this time they didn't, they also granted refunds to those who played more than 2 hours because EU/Aussie consumer protection laws (though americans have none of that shit)
i think its the pressure of the negative reviews and refunds that pressured them to reverse that decision, usually they just treat their customers like garbage and expect the people to continue as "usual" but they outjew'd their hand to the point where everyone on twitter/youtube knew about their schemes (the leaked "we are using playstation network to ban people we don't like")
though gamers precieve it as a "victory" but if i was granted a refund i'd take it leave this company to its own devices, since the "community managers" are literal trannies who HATE gamers with a burning passion, until these subversive degenerates are purged from the company, only then and there will my faith in this company will be restored
otherwise continue to precieve them as hostile because that's usually the case, hell i bet in 2 months (or even 1 month) they'll try to sneakily add the playstation network thing again, albit with better PR
There NEEDS to be firings for this:
For Arrowhead, a few community managers who were less damage control more adding fuel by antagonising the community.
From Sony, a LOT of executives and managers need to go. The people that thought this was a good idea and tried to implement this being high on the list. We still don't know if Helldivers 2 will recover after 2 days of immense negativity, if it wasn't for the communication of their CEO I'd say it couldn't but it'll take time.
Sony did a power grab and blinked so they have lost A TON of reputation for nothing and have now taught gamers to fight back HARD for results.
I fully agree with you on this but execs will just reflect and work better to understand their customers for next time.
Still, it was nice to see our tiny community of 12 racist misogynists completely knock out the entirety of those who label us thus. I hope all the fresh blood in the industry that wants to succeed remember this and Gawker when it comes to basic respect for a consumer group.
I hope gamers remember this win and learn to replicate the same again with any other game worth fighting for (as let's be honest, we'll fight for a Stellar Blade but NO ONE gives a shit about suicide squad).
I'll laugh if the Helldivers community becomes a training camp on how to organise and fight against horrible business decisions in the gaming industry.
Keep in mind that Helldivers 2's whole design was around fighting for a unified cause.
The developers ironically designed atmosphere that mentally trained everyone to focus with incessant diligence on a singular mission for "Super Earth".
As much as it was/is a meme, it's also something DARPA has probably been watching with keen eyes as people from around the world came together to achieve a singular mission using the exact same tactics that the game taught them to use, and for a cause that the game taught them to fight for.
Within two days you had a quarter of a million negative reviews from people across more than 150 countries using the platform to send Sony a very obvious message.
I think it worked well in the Helldivers 2 case because the game managed to build people's psychological profile to enact the exact kind of action that was required to get these kind of results.
As you stated, no one is going to fight like this for Suicide Squad because no one cares. Will people fight this hard for Stellar Blade? Maybe. It depends. But the Helldivers 2 case is a unique one because I've seen a lot of people say that they scored a hard-fought victory just like Melovan Creek, so they've likened this activism to the same kind of grinding they did in the actual game.
'Gamerfied resistance'
That should strike terror into any establishment type with a brain if we look at dismantling their plans and corrupt regime as a way to farm XP lol
This is valid, but don't underestimate how stupid the move was on Sony's part. They literally made the game unplayable in any country where PSN isn't available (which is dumb in the first place).
Stellar Blade censorship is a bitch move, but the game is at least still playable.
The seem like good soldiers.
Throw in some folk from the prequelmemes subreddit and we're all set!
This is not news, it's just rarely been successful because what's necessary is for the response to be instantaneous.
It's kinda like artillery. How long you bombard a target has basically no impact on effectiveness. The effectiveness is determined by how much boom you get in the opening seconds of the barrage. Once the survivors are in cover you're not doing any damage.
While the point is fine, that is not how artillery works.
Don't know about that, I do like the Death Korps of Kreig mentality of bombing an area for centuries until there is nothing left THEN accepting their surrender lol.
True story, the US Army did casualty analyses of WW1 and determined that artillery barrages have a diminishing returns effect as survivors get into cover. It's what governed the development of time-on-target missions, to maximize the amount of metal falling in the opening seconds.
Time-on-target: Rather than assigning a battery to shell a target for a period of time, a central HQ directs ALL available batteries to put a couple shells on target, synchronized so that all shells arrive at the same time regardless of travel distance. MRSI (multiple-round-simultaneous-impact) takes the same concept and uses different powder charges and elevations in the same gun to get even more rounds to arrive at the same time
Interesting.
So if you were to, say, bomb a city to kill certain leaders, it would be totally pointless to continue for months? Especially if you knew they had a vast network of underground tunnels?
Maybe. But if someone else is paying for all the bombs, is there really a reason to stop dropping them?
Oh I don't question the reality of what you are saying, I just have enough bitterness that even if they surrendered I'm going to say 'continue the barrage' till there's only a hole in the ground..
I do question it, because it ignores the purpose of artillery as suppression, morale killer and area denial. I mean for God's sakes we have a modern day trench warfare situation right now as plain as day as an example to draw from.
Arrowhead themselves are also responsible and not free of guilt.
Community Tranagers
Too bad a large amount of people already refunded it and almost certainly aren't coming back.
Its a real lose lose here. Because now they've already lost the money and good will, but also look weak and pathetic by backtracking on it. Especially as we all know they only did it because the backlash was getting bad enough to fuck up their big conference call soon.
They might actually just be trying to stem the refund tide. The game has already sold crazy well, they probably have more to lose from existing purchases than new ones.
All the refunds past the guaranteed grace period are at valve's discretion. They were refusing at least some refunds at the start of the shitstorm, maybe by undoing the announcement they're hoping to not lose any more of their banked sales by not giving valve good reason to approve any more refunds.
I know I been trying for a few days and haven't gotten past the auto bot, while most of my buddies have.
Now I'm fairly certain I won't get it any longer. Which sucks but I can't be too upset as I still got my fun out of the price.
And you know they're going to just try and to it again in the future
Meanwhile it's still forced always online DRM for a perr to peer game, still has rootkit malware "anticheat" bundled with it that can fuck up your system and is beyond layman ability to remove without a clean OS reinstall, and still has freemium cancer.
Yep, the game could be done with even the seasons passes without all that shit, just look at Deep rock galactic for a modern example. Or you can look at their older titles when the studios could develop stuff without it...
It's amazing isn't it, how people will rally to such a degree to change the least bad thing about the game, but ignore everything else wrong with it.
Gamers rise up etc.
Damn I removed the game. I didn't know I couldn't get rid of the software without a full OS wipe
There is apparently a third party tool for removing it without that, but I've never had to deal with it so YMMV.
The damage is still done. People know that the sword of Damocles is hanging over their heads now. I'm sure some will go crawling back, but their success will never be what it was before all of this.
The fact that Arrowhead knew all of this was coming six months ago and didn't say anything is absurd. If these AA developers are going to act no differently than the AAA studios, they will be going down with them in the coming crash. Fuck Arrowhead. Fuck Shift Up. Fuck Sony.
Everyone at that studio should probably have thier social media revoked, because I've never seen a sadder bunch of attempts at dispelling controversy that watching their CM and CEO keep stepping on landmines and making the situation sound worse.
you already know this, but most people are midwits at best. you could probably do better, and you should try. start today. do it now. making a game is rough work but it is doable. Look at Helldivers (the first game). You can make this in Godot.
In Arrowhead's defense, they never anticipated six months ago how much this game would blow up. They then spent weeks in crunch time just trying to keep the servers alive. Then Sony starts demanding that they crack down on PSN linking even though Sony, who is in charge of sales, sold the game in countries with no PSN support. Sony deserves the bulk of the blame here.
Some of Arrowheads own staff were initially on twitter basically just saying 'sucks to suck, you won't be missed'.
They changed their tune as the backlash grew but they've showed their true colours and can't hide them now, they were on board with this.
A lie of omission is still a lie. Arrowhead is equally guilty, just like Shift Up is for their mess. "Just following orders" will never earn any sympathy from me.
The real issue at the end of the day was that Sony willfully listed the game on Steam in regions that cannot (without breaking ToS) create a PSN account. Even if the account linking requirement was supposed to be in from the start and only got kicked down the road due to server issues, Sony created a shitstorm largely because of how widely listed the game was. Arrowhead isn't to blame for that aspect at the very least, because the reason studios opt for a publisher is to manage logistics, like where to sell the game.
That was Steam doing it to go after the publisher for the potential refund shit storm.
Sony wasn't awake and at work til last night, and odds are their executives crapped themselves when they walked in.
I haven't once said that Arrowhead is entirely to blame, so I don't know why people keep responding to me as if I did. Go read the responses that Arrowhead employees were making to angry gamers on Twitter over this and see if you are still so willing to go to the mat for them.
Arrowhead knew this was coming since before they launched and didn't say anything about it to warn their customers. And then when customers were upset, they laughed in their faces and told them to go fuck themselves. They have plenty of responsibility for the problem that has absolutely nothing to do with Sony. So once again, they are equally responsible here, and no amount of "bu bu but Sony!" is going to convince me otherwise.
too little too late
show some sincerity, i want to see firings.
Boy, the gamers in the comment section sure are eager to get back to licking Sony's boots.
Imagine a blue and white boot stomping on a human face forever.
Whoa I thought we were talking about Sony, why are you bringing up Israel? lmao ;D
This, im glad some of us that the integrity to punish devs and publishers with no recourse. It should serve as a warning to future devs.
I think the damage is done, sorry Sony. I was going to try this game at some point, but now I don't have confidence that my efforts can't or won't be ripped away from me.
I started actively distrusting Sony when they pulled OtherOS from the PS3, and then sued the hackers who got it running again.
If they're willing, and legally able, to remove an existing feature that was a selling point of the console, they're capable of anything.
Same. I had it on wishlist, but took it off at the "AcKsHuAlLy, it's woke AF, because we have women and blacks" nonsense, that and I figure it's best played with a regular group of buddies, which I don't exactly have right now.
Arrowhead can still get themselves out of this hole, but Sony is basically making it clear they can't be trusted ever again. I dropped PS4 at the California move and saw how they started treating Japanese devs.
Nice, damage is done though
For their reputation, yea but it went from fractions to negative numbers. For the sheeple, they will still buy Sony schlock.
Hopefully, Sony got tired of Steam and Helldivers fans pimp slapping them.
Fuck off and die SOYNY and take helldivers with you. I would be very disappointed if people went back to this game. It would be as equally pathetic of a weak backtrack of the helldivers community to return as it was for SOYNY to backtrack their decision. They need to eat those class action law suits and this game NEEDS to fail.
Soyny - After we completely destroy anu good will and reputation we've decided not to go forward with it (for now).
Damage is already done, good luck getting it back.
Ha ha!
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