A core lie of the democrat party
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Lazy word games again, murder is an entirely meaningless metric when only modern law dictates what is and isn’t murder. For example, if we changed out the word murder for homicide then women would be the overwhelming majority of killers by an insurmountable margin.
Of the worst type… Nobody really cares when grown adults murder each other, but we all understand it’s extraordinarily evil to murder or intentionally harm an innocent child, yet women have found a myriad of excuses to justify exactly that.
Apparently, you guys are not done losing Republicans elections. No one believes that a fertilized egg is a 'child'.
It's hilarious that you, as a European, says this(Apologies, as I don't recall offhand which country you're from), when most European countries have more restrictive abortion requirements that most states.
I don't see the irony. Do you think I'm advocating for third-term abortions or even abortions after birth? No, just common sense laws like those of France - first 14 weeks sounds good to me.
I'm mostly coming at it from an American point of view; a lot of liberals seem to view Europe as the land of milk and honey when it comes to their personal politics, without really knowing anything about it.
Hence the irony.
You're right about that. The only thing that they would like is Europe's economic policies. But their cultural stuff would be bizarre in the opinion of 90%+ of Europeans.
And the entire abortion debate over the last decades have shown that inches become miles overnight and any allowance becomes abuse. Which is a problem when that abuse is "legally murdering children."
Again, you treat it entirely as a game of back and forth about optics and winning, when people's strong points of view on it are completely moral in basis and thereby compromise is tantamount to giving blessing.
How so? In the US, Roe vs. Wade gave sweeping rights that were gradually rolled back over decades.
So you'd rather save zero rather than 50%?
In the way that "in rare, understandable cases like incest and rape" became turned fractionally rare occurences into somehow a common thing that all women go through. Or that "early enough that its not alive" evolved into certain states pushing the "mother's life in danger" to just deciding that "anytime" qualifies.
Every single "common sense" metric was just redefined until it basically did nothing, as the Left and women will always do.
We'd improve the life of the common Israeli by removing every Arab in existence, but I feel like you'd consider that not something we can only just genocide a few countries on. Or pick and choose any continent on this regard.
Again, you only look at issues through optics and winning and don't seem to understand not everyone thinks like you and has moral standings. Even if it might be the "best result."
Thank you for your kind words.
Dont go back to being a retarded faggot. Crazy how when Mitch McConnell isn't sabotaging elections then Republicans win in a landslide while still being anti abortion
I stopped?
Trump played down his supposed anti-abortion stance like an absolute madman. Pro-abortion initiatives have won in deep-red states, going further in allowing late-term abortions than I'd like (and I'm pro-abortion).
Also, like McConnell or not, but he raised and spent tens of millions to help even people he didn't like win, like JD Vance. Unsurprisingly, he cares about being Majority Leader rather than Minority Leader.
No problem at all. People have said far worse things over far less, so I appreciate your decency.
I understand that the issue is very important for people who believe that abortion is murder. But even then, if you try to, in your view, save as many lives as possible, you have to take account of realities.
elections have been fake and gay ever since the digital voting machines were put in place 20+ years ago, the same voting machines Mossad and CIA use to install puppet regimes in every place we’ve lovingly brought democracy to.
it’s because of the millions of people just like you that the west is in the toilet, ready to be flushed down the drain. You’ve been conditioned by “progressive” lies to believe we need to compromise our morals if we want to hold onto votes, and that has gone on until the west has lost everything that once gave it meaning, all of its morals, its integrity, its strengths all gone, all because you people believe tolerance to evil is the answer. It’s ain’t the answer, it’s at the core of the rot.
We use paper ballots.
You're not wrong. We're the proverbial frog.
I don't compromise any morals. I just don't share your anti-abortion beliefs.
I don't.
A fertilised egg that was gestated for 9 months, born and then murdered by a cunt with "but muh postpartum depression" or "but muh economic circumstances" or "but muh meanie boyfriend that I chose to fuck despite knowing what a shithead he is"?
I don't know man, I kinda do believe that is a child.
I'll go out on a limb and assume you're talking about abortion.
What's the gender of abortion doctors?
Oh, but they're not the murderers. The women are. Wait, are you saying that you want to not only jail women for having abortions, but give them more severe sentences than the doctors?
It's as if you're looking for ways to lose elections.
It's not an either
let's use a less politically charged example to explore this question. If I were to hire somebody to kill my boss (not that I would, but stay with me), am I the murderer, or is the guy who I hired the murderer? the answer is we were both accomplices to the act.
in the case of the abortion, this would mean that both were culpable, which raises the stats in both directions, though disproportionately on one side.
not trying to be a dick here, but I'm a little too autistic not to poke that hole in the logic, lol.
Right. I'm not sure on the exact English terminology, but this is certainly directionally correct.
But normally, anti-abortion advocates say that they only want to go after the doctors. If they start branding the women as murderers, then this implies that they also want to prosecute the women for murder, and this would be a bad idea for them - or at least the politicians who have such an albatross around their neck.
Far from it. You are making a good point. I like it when people make good arguments (not very common), even ones that poke holes in my logic.
I can only speak for myself on this, but here goes.
on the one hand, the moral choice would be to go after the doctors and the women, but as you said, there are pragmatic reasons not to. If the goal is to stop as many abortions as possible while shifting what little public support there is in favor of stopping abortions as little as possible, then it makes sense to target doctors(god i hope that's not too confusing, lol). it's a trade off. =/
yeah, but text-based conversations are prone to misunderstandings, and I tend to overthink things, so here we are, lmao.
Nope, makes perfect sense. Of course, it opens people up to the accusation of hypocrisy, same as leftists when they're OK with a murderer being prosecuted for double murder when a woman is pregnant, thus recognizing the potential life as a child in that context but not others.
Not a bad thing. It's not exactly as if there is a surfeit of pleasant people here.
you can the wins you can get, not the wins you can't, lol.
🎶welcome to the internet🎶
Millions of women killing their children and thousands of doctors aiding them, huh, it’s like math exists. Hilariously insane argument to say elections are more important than 65 million plus dead babies over 50 years. I get that society is far to gynocentric to even entertain the notion that the mother is culpable, but truth exists and what I said is entirely true.
The doctors are merely 'aiding' them? Now, I'm not an expert on the mechanics, but I'm pretty sure the mothers don't have to do that much.
I mean, this is a "muh climate is more important than the Mona Lisa so let's vandalize it". Even if I wanted to prevent as many abortions as possible, and I don't because many people who shouldn't reproduce would, I wouldn't go about doing it in the most counterproductive way possible.
I agree. If it's murder, which I don't think it is, then the mother is as responsible as the doctor. But of course, you're not going to get very far making that argument, because there is a difference between a fertilized egg and an embryo and a 'child'.
Mothers are the main drivers of the abortion the doctors in this argument literally act as a tool of the whims of the mother. No different than a pistol or abortion pill.
I’ve done this sad debate with you over and over, there isn’t any distinctive human difference between a newborn and a fetus, the only difference is an emotional attachment versus a trained disassociation.
Abortion pills don't have agency. People do. If one believes that it's murder, they're more like hitmen.
Please note that I specified fertilized egg and embryo. I don't believe in late-term abortions, and I do think that that is murder.
You do get that the egg is only fertilized for less than 24 hours before becoming a zygote? Also you’re misunderstanding embryo, by all scientific definitions the fetus stage is reached by week 9 and usually starts in week 5. Week 5 is when brain tissue is formed and when fetal heartbeat occurs. Again there isn’t any distinctive difference aside from an emotional argument.
Week 9 still isn't late-term. And I think you'll admit that there is quite a massive difference between week 9 and a newborn.
"When you're losing an argument, just Gish Gallop away from it and pretend that you've won."
While I'm not anti-abortion (I think it's probably an unavoidable but necessary evil, though I'm pretty convinced at this point that it's far more damaging to women than just having the baby would have been), I am consistently embarrassed when hearing the arguments from the pro-abortion side as they slide goalposts from field to field to rink to court to course as they dodge the morality question.
I can't say I've had that experience, but I do know you're a big fan of mine.
Probably. Having kids changes women for the better. The question is whether we want even more children of single mothers running around and being criminals. I say no.
Funny, I have the same feeling. For example, "IT'S HER OWN BODY". Not really, it is a separate organism. The question is if you believe this is developed enough to deserve rights.
Interesting question. Go find us a stat. Until then, let's assume 50/50. Which, when you include DIY abortions, would still be majority female.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6466461/
(retracted because the author was anti-abortion
But let's assume that they're 50/50. DIY abortions would not make 'the overwhelming majority' female, perhaps a very small majority.
In Florida from 2011-2016. Do you even bother reading your own sources? Let’s assume they’re 50/50 and the mother has equal culpability. That would mean millions of guilty mothers (65 million abortions since roe as of 2021) and thousands of guilty doctors. So yes, the massively overwhelming amount of homicide is still female because it’s MILLIONS versus THOUSANDS when you account for all homicide.
OK, so you're doubling down. Execute millions of women then?
Execute? Where did I say that?
You didn't, but if they're guilty of murder, then surely the penalty for murder would be reasonable.
You were luckier than I was trying to find numbers. But that's obviously disparate percentages only because Florida discriminates against female physicians. /s
You made the claim women murder more, you find the stats. Btw DV is known to increase abuse during pregnancy, and men kill pregnant women at higher rates.
Not being pregnant by some men saves the woman's life. But, women don't mean anything to you. You don't care about those stats.
Women commit DV at higher stats than men across the board. It would also track that pregnant women are more abusive.
Stupid liar. The search results for cut and lasting YOUR COMMENT proves you know you made it up, because it all proves my statement that men kill pregnant women, and termination doesn't just save the woman's life, they aren't stuck with 18 yrs of more abuse.
https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/pregnancy/abuse-during-pregnancy
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4361157/
https://vawnet.org/material/fact-sheet-domestic-violence-and-pregnancy
https://nationalpartnership.org/report/intimate-partner-violence/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_and_pregnancy
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2442136/
I'm sorry your mom raised a woman hater.
Aw! What’s it like being unable to have a discussion when you can’t even engage in the very base of it? Who commits more domestic violence, men or women? Funny how you just spammed a bunch of self surveys and pretended it was actually data. Also the retarded sperging about “18 years of abuse” is just adorable, women can, at any point, leave the relationship. I’m sorry your mother raised a miserable cunt who likely is a massive abuser.
Citations are not spam loser. Go get your GED, and then you can read them. No woman wants to coparent with an abuser for 18 yrs dumbass. Clearly you need more practice with your logic skills.
Getting away safely means a clean break. No ties. Ended, over. No interaction.
Oh hey, our sometimes-resident feminist retard shows her bigoted, misandrous face again.
No I didn't. Antonio insinuated that abortion doctors are usually men, so I told him to find the stats. Which, to his credit, he tried to do.
It's the same as if you hire a hitman, both the principal and the agent are culpable for the murder.
Where are you pulling that number from?
All publicly available statistics on homicide that break it down by gender show men are the largest group convicted of it. At least of the ones I can find
Homicide is the act of killing another, murder is what the law dictates as the illegal killing of another. When you account for all deaths, including abortion, women go into the millions of perpetrators and men go into the thousands. There was 65 million abortions in the us between 1973 and 2021, more than the entire total of war deaths, homicides, and suicides combine over the history of the us, doubled.
Women engage in proxy-violence.
I'm not a regular bar-goer but twice I've watched drunk women literally grab a guy by the hand, pull him over to another guy he didn't know, and try to get them to fight each other. Non-drunk women are usually less obvious and direct but the effect is the same.
The issue with women and violence is that it's very difficult to get the women who cause it to suffer the consequences. A man who picks fights risks getting hurt or killed in evety fight even if he wins the fight. A woman who pushes men into fights rarely has any consequences at all.
A reason why they really shouldn't be in charge of armies.
A reason why they shouldn't be in charge of anything and hold no authority at all within society.
Fun historical fact: back when kings were expected to personally lead their troops in battle, nations ruled by queens were far more likely to start wars.
Probably explains why only women generally vote for mass migration
The core lie of the Democrat party is that they are the ultimate arbiters of morality. All that they do stems from that, every defense designed to reinforce it.
A even more insidious lie that both Democrats and Republicans subscribe to is women are oppressed and men are oppressors
Or that women have EVER been oppressed
You can't tell me that women aren't oppressed in Islamic caliphates.
Everyone in Islamic caliphates is oppressed. And everyone (men and women) participates in and perpetuates it.
Women tend to be the strongest enforcers of moral orthodoxy.
To be fair, opting for the white bear is usually a bad idea.
The fundamental difference between these two statements is that one is actionable and one is not. You can’t have a sustainable, functional society without men - or without women - because the human species is sexually dimorphic and requires both sexes to reproduce and survive. You can, however, have racially homogeneous societies that thrive and prosper. In fact, that was the default state of humanity for most of its existence.
This is why anyone who responds to racial or ethnic discussions with “what about feminism” is just a retard. Women are a necessary condition. Feminism is a problem, but the solution is still going to require coexistence. This isn’t the case for multiculturalism. The solution to that problem is just literal separation.
So no, the two statements in this tweet are not equivalent. The facts of black violence are actually useful and can inform viable policy.