In the wake of Trump’s motorcade driving through the Atlanta ghetto - in order to film a few black people cheering for a conservative - we’re once again seeing a bunch of conservative talking heads rehash the same tired bullshit about blacks waking up to the corruption and degeneracy of the left. These pundits are claiming that black support for Trump is now at 20% and climbing!
Nonsense. The reality is that we have a cottage industry of black content creators, influencers, and reactors who promote conservatism not for a black audience but rather for a white conservative audience. Because white conservatives are absolutely terrified of being labeled racist, so black creators are ready to cash in with content that serves that demographic.
Blacks are never going to support republicans.
Trump does draw more of the black vote than generic Republican candidates, but it isn't very many in raw numbers. Where he really draws minority voters is latinos, which dwarf blacks demographically.
Yeah, the anti-communist contingent of latino voters ( Cuban-Americans etc. ) is something very few people talk about, plus there's the added issue of the border because the latino voters who all came into the U.S legally etc. know exactly who the criminals following them are so they won't want to have to deal with that shit. Add to that the very based anti-communist Chinese who do exist and that's another factor.
Not for a second suggesting this will make up a difference, I do think current_horror has a point about internet bias. However journalists were very much in disbelief when they found out how many Cuban-Americans were voting for Trump. Shocker the people who most recently lived in socialist countries don't want socialism in the country they just moved to.
It was not just Cuban-Americans who swung heavily towards Trump in 2020. Southern Texas isn't filled with Cubans or Venezuelans.
The people I talk to that despise illegals the most are legal Hispanics, for good reason.
Oh yeah, definitely, but that's a specific demographic I'm plucking to help explain things, the Cuban-Americans are mostly based in Florida if I remember correctly.
In 2020 Trump pulled 12% of the black vote. In 2004 Bush pulled 11%. They're a constituency that simply can't be appealed to by Republicans no matter what, but trying to pander to them can alienate enough white people to doom a Republican candidate.
He gained 1% of blacks, and lost 4% or something of whites.
Latin people want to work and build themselves. They're usually right wing, as long as employers don't abuse them too much.
This is a fantasy. They just want to get paid and turn whoever they are to wherever they came from. That’s not building anything.
they're only right wing when it comes to against abortion, and left wing when it comes to wanting your tax money to pay for the gobliños they refused to abort
That's not my experience.
Black men, specifically men, who manage to climb into the middle class might be slightly more inclined to support Trump-like populists. Not conservatives, and even then, it will be a minority of them. I could see a future where 20% of black men vote for someone like Trump. But their support for rightist populism won't last longer than that particularly charismatic candidate does.
Black men on average have polled as high as 40% for Donald Trump.
The thing that's utterly killing him is black women: 2% support.
You're never going to get a demographic of people dependent on government gibs to vote for Republicans.
Not to mention the abortion rate. Black women make black men look like Jainists.
Yeah, honestly, you're better off having them marry conservative black men than trying to recruit them.
That being said... that's a tall order too.
If I were in a position to shape policy, I'd end welfare and strongly incentivize women to marry and have children. Basically with regard to black society, a return to life as it was before Johnson's Great Society.
I'd point out that if we look at what racialism has wrought, black racialism has fucking destroyed the lives of black people. Sure some of the racialists have political power, but everyone else is worse off, more homeless, damaged by more crime, have had thier families destroyed, their churches are a hive of Leftism, educational attainment has utterly collapsed, so on and so forth.
If you support racialism, all you have to do is look to what it's done to blacks to see the future of whites.
it's not racialism that destroyed blacks, it's the fact most of them are retarded and/or violent. blacks can't even survive well without infrastructures white people built, whites don't have any problems prospering without blacks.
Again, this is totally ahistorical and ignorant. Whether it's freedmen pioneer communities in the west, or plenty of places in modern Africa, we see over and over that your narrative is completely fictitious.
Even if we were to accept violence and low IQ as an explanation, no human civilizations could have evolved out of the Bronze Age, let alone Europeans. Even violent, low IQ civilizations exist without the help of your imaginary galaxy brain whites.
Where we see the most violent social destruction of black populations is the same place we see the most violent social destruction of white populations: under Leftist rule.
What percentage of blacks are 'dependent on government gibs'? If what you say is true, then the votes of the rest of them are up for grabs - which is not the case.
It depends on the program, for example 36% were on Medicaid/CHIP in 2021.
But to your point, yes, it is not just welfare as a motivation. There are also cultural reasons for why 90% of blacks vote for Democrats.
That would suggest that 64% of blacks would be open to Republicans.
And I think there are many white people who are 'dependent' on the government but who still vote GOP.
So they're not qualifying for Medicaid/CHIP, but are qualifying for other 'gibs' for which the standards are lower? Alright, then take how many use those.
Well there was the whole affirmative action thing for quite a while.
Also, while less to do with governments, there's been a sea of diversity-based favoritism in various job markets for the last 15 or so years.
I think the percentage of blacks who benefit from affirmative action is vastly lower than the 36% who someone said get Medicaid.
Probably, but it's still a fairly high expenditure even so.
But we're not talking about whether or not expenditure is high or low, but whether or not 'government benefits' prevent blacks from being Republicans. If only a small portion of blacks benefit, but the rest don't vote GOP either, it's clearly not that.
(Not that there's much difference between Republicans and Democrats regarding government benefits, or anything.)
Polls drive a narrative, which is exactly what OP is talking about. Don’t buy it.
Many polls drive narratives, but this is something that we are seeing reflected in reality. A slow but steady increase in black-republican votes.
Black men have a decent rate of Trump support and a low rate of voting.
The fact is black women have been driving Dem policy for ages due to vastly different voting patterns by sex.
I think the same is true of Republicans, for the same reason, and only to a lesser degree. Whether men kind of "dropping out" ends up being a good thing remains to be seen.
Certainly, we do not put all of our faith in "voting."
A lot of this is to try to keep whites asleep about our precarious demographic future by creating false hopes about the prospects of political unity (which is more than just mon-whites voting Republican).
Even if what they're trying to sell were true, what kind of retard would get excited over a 20% share?
Trump would be better off trading that entire 20% for just 100 black people (who work the polls in swing states).
There's a subset of normies republicans whom always assume good faith when arguing with their opponents.
When the left trot out the old racism canard, they're obviously horrified and go immediately on the defensive. They don't realize that this makes you look weak, that this makes you 'the lady doth protest too much', that this plays exactly into the kafka-trap their opponents engineer and makes normies waste energy on things their opponents really don't care about.
These self-same normies are the one's trying to go 'See!? SEE!?' about this, as if makes the racism accusation null and void. Not realizing that it doesn't matter, that they'll be accused of racism even harder with the terms 'House Nigger' and all the various epitaphs they throw at Sowell.
This is, incidentally, why I tend to have a very hard time swallowing the idea of any GOP candidate that's non-white or a woman. Because I have a very hard time believing they're putting them forth as honestly skilled candidates and tend to assume that they're using them as an accusation against racism/misogny, which doesn't work anyways.
If you have black friends, then obviously, you are a racist. If you don't have black friends, then obviously, you're also a racist.
Now you get it!
White conservatives that are desperate to not appear racist, even if that means pretending to love blacks who absolutely hate then back.
we love our based blackerinos don't we folks! demokkkrats are the real racists! lowest black unemployment rates!
Because of the overall problem of the Democrat's coalition of votes.
The reason the Democrats are whining about racism and white supremacy is because they lost the white vote. They try to make it sound like a sudden rise of white supremacy, but the truth is that the Democrats have been bleeding white voters since 1964 because of Goldwater, and when they started abandoning the white working class, they made it nearly irreparable. Democrats can't get much more than 30% of the white vote, and most of those are going to be progressive elites, the managerial class, and default Leftists. In total votes, it means white voters barely make up 45% of all Democratic votes. Worse, Trump keeps gaining more and more white voters, even "out-of-the-woodwork" white voters who never voted before.
As a result, the black vote is do or fucking die. Black votes nearly rival that of white votes among Democrats, and even hispanic votes are a distant third.
The uncomfortable truth of the Democrats is that without white voters, they are utterly dependent on absolute voting blocks. Polarization is mandatory for their survival, or they'd be bowled the fuck over electorally. They need every fucking young person they can get to vote Democrat, because as people age, they push right. They need every hispanic they can get their hands on, by hook, crook, or caravan. They also need every black person in America to vote Democrat. Not some, almost all of them. To be clear: if the black vote turned out 70% Democrat and nothing else changed; Republicans would win an electoral landslide, and create a Republican Solid South. You can test this on any vote calculator you would like. Think about it: blacks are only 12% of the population, but represent almost 30-40% of all Democratic votes cast. If you're depending on that to support almost the entirety of your election, you're utterly dependent upon that demographic for political survival. Trump is striking at a keystone for political control by hitting at black voters. Especially if he wants to take North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, and Florida.
Actually, I think Democrats have been bleeding white voters since the 1930s. That 1964 meme is part of the 'party switch' meme.
This is also not borne out by longitudinal studies. People actually become more left as they age, at least on the bad stuff, which is a most terrifying prospect. Let's hope those studies are as fake as the rest of them.
Nice idea, but it's not working, so it's a waste of time and effort.
Don't write blacks off, but pandering without end when it has no effect is also a bad idea. Instead, engage in low-level, low-cost efforts, like radio ads, describing how bad Dems are for blacks.
That's too far back, FDR had a one party state in the 1940's. It's more fair to say they've been slowly loosing FDR's regime of control since Eisenhower, then LBJ propped it up with a new coalition between unions and minorities in 1964, then they suffered a terrible collapse even while destroying Nixon, and only managed to hold on with a right-ward shift under Clinton, and subversive efforts under Obama. They are now in yet another crisis.
I've seen no study that reflects this.
I don't see it as a waste of time, it's just one aspect of a larger strategy that has to be hit from many angles. Undermining the black voting block weakens the cities. Hell, if the Dems do start more race riots, (as I said in 2020), Trump needs to do what Nixon did in 1968. American blacks are the primary victims of crime, and we have seen that they are also anti-illegal immigrant at many levels.
Why throw away a few % of votes if you can have them?
It's a scam. The Latino vote for Trump increased by 10% even though they did nothing to appeal to Latinos. Meanwhile, the black vote barely moved, despite pandering to blacks non-stop.
A lot of blacks may be natural populist Republicans, but there is no prospect of piercing through the prejudices and media indoctrination that prevent them from being Republicans.
Reinforce strength, not weakness.
Black support is important for getting the support of some suburban whites though.
Haha right on!
I mean I’m a registered Republican. Granted I don’t see black people voting more than 15% and that would be the first time since the 50s. I’m conservative because it makes more sense not to pander (but I’ve seen what you describe) but I’m just one guy. But I don’t foresee any increase in the vote percentage.
This is true, however I have noticed black culture is starting to shift. I have had the opportunity to be closer to black culture these days and have been surprised by a few things:
-refusing to call themselves "black", instead going with "melanated".
-high focus on industriousness
-clinging to Christianity, much more so than whites.
It certainly doesn't mean it's different now, but my gut is the momentum has started to shift that direction.
What lol. This sounds more to me like leftist shit, the rest are good though.
Yeah this one was strange and took me by surprise.
I first noticed it with a survivalist gardener YouTuber and wrote it off as him being nuts, but then I ran into a woman who used the term in a professional conference call and was like "woah, maybe this is a real term?"
Blacks always let us down. Don’t fall for it.
Like I said, I don't expect any changes for voting in immediate future but my latest interactions with the black community have been positive.
I just bumped into a black guy leaving an elevator at night and he turned around to yell at me "Jesus loves you".
A black woman chatting me up at a bar had to take a break for conference call on running your own business.
Imagine white liberals doing either of these things. Unheard of.
Something is shifting culture wise there. It might not translate into votes just yet, but I think it can be cultivated and gives me a lot of hope.
That totally happened.
Yeah, there is something of a movement now especially among black men where they're waking up to the bullshit they've been fed and they're fleeing the democrat plantation as it were. The problem is, the left are very creepy about what they do we've seen how they treat black americans behind closed doors.
You are the “target audience” I’m talking about.
I'm white you muppet and yes I know what he meant but even so, he's slowly going off the deep end which is why I don't like him much and I think I'm done now.
You didn’t understand the post. The target audience for black conservative content creators is white people. There aren’t enough black conservatives to constitute a profitable demographic. There are, however, tons of white conservatives who are desperate to prove themselves not racist, and that’s the primary appeal of black conservative creators. “How can I be racist if I agree with this based black dude?” It’s a pathetic acquiescence to the leftist worldview on racism as a legitimate accusation and not an exclusively anti-white bludgeon.
Thank god the 66% of black men who aren't felons, and thereby might vote, have started to realize the Left doesn't like them. I'm sure they will all now throw off their entire culture, reject their mothers, and become upright citizens worth calling our countrymen!
They certainly aren't just feeding an empty line about not voting for someone they weren't voting for anyway or doing the easiest action to win your approval with no followthrough to fix the problem.
I mean, black voter turnout is about 51%. So that gnarly 1 in 3 black men left who can and do vote I'm sure are all the ones who are turning to our side.
Good GOD please stop. This is not based in an applicable reality.
Absolutely. Probably why they are keeping it underground.
White boomer-cons are just as obsequious to race grifters as white leftists.
Correct.
And I’ll go a bit further. Black support for Trump will never go beyond 8-12% with Trump and will crater back to 4-8% when he’s gone.
This is reality. Any money, promises, or support given to these people will never be returned.
The Hodge Twins is a good example of that. While mostly based, they went completely ape shit over the Scott Adams rant about getting the fuck out of cities since 50+% of blacks don't believe white lives matter. Most conservative blacks with an audience were smart enough to see through the leftist propaganda (eg Larry Elder had Scott on his show to talk about it), but not those guys.
Almost like the mask slipped for a bit...
So what exactly do you consider conservative then?
Well obviously not. I don't know anyone who thought they would.
I don't know. Trump's motorcade got a really enthusiastic, lining the streets and cheering type welcome as they drove through the hood in Atlanta. I tried to find the clip, but oddly couldn't. It's been huge on the wins the last few days; if anyone wanted to link it, I would say thanks.
As others pointed out, even a few percent more of the black vote would be a huge Trump victory.
Edit: I see at least 2 people are upset at the truth.
They did support Republicans, and there's no reason they can't again. Many of you all were saying that it was physically impossible for any hispanic population (including white hispanics), to support Republicans at more than 30%. This, of course, wasn't true. Whether under Bush, Trump, or DeSantis. (There's a reason most of Border Patrol is latino) Hell, Lee Zeldin managed to get 80% of the vote in a primarily Hassidic jewish part of NYC. This is because (as I said at the time) those jews were being explicitly racially targeted by BLM, and religiously targeted by Bill DeBlasio ("Buy a Galil"). He didn't even-out a voting bloc, he flipped it entirely.
Your racialism completely blinds you to ethnic, cultural, religious, national origin, and geographic differences, and it is why you fail. Unfortunately, it's your fault for wanting to politically homogenize populations into specific racial-political categories.
You hate me because I'm Mr. Subverter. Fine, listen to the subversive point out that when a Feminist tells women to shut up about their rape for the sake of diversity, that is an avenue of attack to break up an intersectional coalition of the margins. When Hascidic jews are being told to shut up about their murders by machete wielding Race Communists, that's an avenue of attack. Behind the Black National Socialism's racial solidarity of "Blackness" is a writhing, teeming, tumult of "black" ethnicities that hate each other between American blacks, Caribbean blacks, West African blacks, and Somalis. Hell, "hispanic" isn't even fucking real; it's a political affiliation. These are all avenues of attack that the Leftists are desperately papering over, and that default-Leftists are too blinded by "universalism" to notice.
The black upper-middle-class intelligentsia are National Socialists, and the ghetto urbanites are nearly full on National Bolshevists, as Democratic control is relying on Criminalism and Anarcho-Tyranny. The blacks that Trump is winning are rural, property owning, and men. These are distinctions that are very valuable and exploitable against Leftist and Racialist coalitions.
I have been saying for years that's it's not impossible for Republicans to win over non-white voters. They're just going to have to be even more neglectful of their white voter base and more retarded and terrible than before. We're already seeing this develop. TPUSA holds Black Leadership Summits (none for whites, of course). Republicans have started to cuck on criminal justice by way of the First Step Act, Platinum Plan, etc. Instead of using Dems' past support of stopping crime to call them out for being soft now, Republicans now condemn them as racist for supporting anti-crime bills in 90s and use that to justify the GOP's cucking.
Here is how Republicans can further increase black support:
Orthodox Jews have a solid history of supporting Republicans. Why wouldn't they? Republicans take gentiles' money and send it to Israel and domestic ortho communities where they learn about the subhumaness of the gentile in their yeshivas (orthos suck up a ton of welfare gibs, by the way). The GOP censors criticisms of the Jewish Supremacist ethnostate and criminalizes boycotts of it. There is a lot of harm being done to gentiles for the benefit of Jews to keep these votes.
Even your example of the black criminal attacking Jews highlights the point I'm making about mutually exclusive, irreconcilable differences. Dems support soft-on-crime policies that lead to these attacks in order to retain support of black voters so they have trouble spinning both of those plates. Republicans can clean up by not cucking out on crime.
Your point about feminism doesn't translate well onto black support of Dems because the alternative to feminism isn't being pro-rape. Blacks overwhelmingly support welfare, social programs, abortion, and so forth. The alternative to Democrats requires blacks compromising on key policy positions like that which they won't do.
That's why the old "LBJ said 'nigger' routine" isn't winning them over. A more lucid and candid black Democrat would probably tell you something like, "LBJ might have called me a nigger, but dat check still comes every month. I might be a nigger, but at least I'm a nigger with money now!" A black voter like this intuitively understands the transactional nature of voting and politics. It doesn't matter if LBJ likes you. It matters if his policies benefit you.
There is this canard against White Nationalism that we only believe what we do because we don't understand other groups. That's not true. We are White Nationalists because we do understand them and understand that our interests clash with theirs in ways that, if they are reconcilable, no one is doing it right.
Damn this post is good!
If you want to be wrong about each point, sure.
The increase in the Latino vote for Trump was not because of any 'retardation' or 'terribleness', but probably because of good things, like not supporting rioting and looting.
Absolutely true. Even some people on places like this attack the 1994 crime bill, which was actually very good.
A lesson for all.
I don't see the clash. If you're a white nationalist, you should be strongly in favor of abortion, as abortion prevents a lot of black babies from being born. Soft criminal justice overwhelmingly hurts blacks. You could make an argument that 'social programs' have the interests of whites clash with those of blacks, because blacks would benefit disproportionately, but it's still rather tenuous.
The clash of interests is because of wealth transfers away from whites to non-whites. Social programs and welfare do that incidentally, but there are also explicit wealth transfers to blacks (and other non-whites) based at least in part on identity.
But as you say, that is merely incidental. It's a wealth transfer from the rich and high-income to those lower on the scale. So I don't think a poor white minds that Zuckerberg is taxed a bit higher to help him as well as some poor black.
On the other hand, he does mind when the elites try to benefit themselves while bashing him for 'white privilege'.
Which ones are you thinking of?
It's not purely incidental. There are programs specifically for blacks like the black farmer thing that prompted lawsuits. The Platinum Plan was also going to be setup to be racially targeted.
Ah yes, and I also remember the 'contract set-aside' for blacks and women. Still, it's worth looking at how many blacks actually benefit from these advantages. Very, very few. Same for affirmative action.
If personal benefit is not the reason for their support for Democrats, there must be something else.
Also, Asians keep voting in majority for Democrats, who take their money and give it to both blacks and whites, and discriminate against kids.
It's perceived personal benefit. Politics is all about perception.
Abortion prevents a lot of white babies being born too. It allowed white women of childbearing age to be complete whores because it removed the one accountability mechanism that kept them bound to chilbearing.
The only thing that matters is the relative number. If 40% of black babies are aborted, compared to 5% of white babies, that should lead a white nationalist to support abortion (that is not the reason I support abortion though). At the very least, it's anything from settled that anti-abortion is in the interests of white nationalists.
5% of the white population dominates 40% of the black population in terms of raw numbers and cultural influence.
Abortion begins & ends with white women.
You simply can't imagine that each member of each race is not set diametrically opposed to one another.
The welfare state programs are the result of the abolition of private property in black communities as well as the social immobility of those welfare states. There are black entrapanuers (may of them have moved into improving bad real estate and flipping houses), and that is a good wedge for that. Abandoning pro-life efforts wouldn't persuade anyone because black religious men are opposed to it, and black women are enthralled to it. Softening criminal justice hurts black people more than anyone else, it just helps the black intelligentsia who are in league with criminal gangs.
You're not going to win racialist blacks because they are ideologically captive to Democrats, and I'm not saying you should. I'm actually saying you, Arch, can't figure out what a non-racialist black would look like because I don't think you believe such a thing exists, or that any such people exist, anywhere.
Orthodox jews don't have a history of supporting Republicans at all, particularly not in New York City, which voted 80% Democrat until Lee Zeldin.
Democrats are not trying to retain black voters by being soft on crime, they are trying to maintain their control of black criminals and black intelligentsia to control black voters and suppress dissent through Anarcho-Tyranny.
A black racialist will take any white person's money for any reason, that is true. Again, the problem is that you can't imagine that there are non-racialist blacks (or non-racialist humans).
The canard against you National Socialists is the same canard against feminism: you don't understand your own proletariat, let alone your bourgeoise. You are potentially even more ignorant of whites than you are of blacks, and it is you are ideologically captive to your asserted intertemporal racial abstractions.
You need to convince black voters of the evils of crime and welfare, not me. So far, the GOP has failed miserably at doing so and doesn't seem to have any new cards up its sleeve.
Blacks are the most racialist people in the country. The GOP is not fighting against their racial attitude and instead is leaning into it, as I described above with idpol pandering.
Orthodox Jews have been trending Republican. Why?
With orthos as with blacks, we have a group with a strong in-group bias. The GOP once again leans into it. Anti-idpol is fake & gay. They only preach that to whites while supporting affinity groups, affirmative action, reparations, and even full on ethnostates for other groups.
You are once again preaching to the wrong audience. You need to convince the GOP - including your beloved Trump - that they should oppose idpol and racialism instead of their current strategy.
It's taken nearly a century to convince half of white people that welfare is bad, so that's not a surprise that it's a long game. As for crime being bad, most blacks already know crime is bad, it's just that every single institution they live under has rationalized it. "It's bad but..."
Crime.
Who the fuck is we? The two of us both know that whites don't have a strong in-group preference. I hope you're not outing yourself as a JIDF shill pushing counter-signaling. That would be both funny and sad.
Trump isn't pushing IdPol, but one of the reasons I'm fine with the Republican party burning to the ground is because the entirely of the establishment are far closer to your position on IdPol than you would like to admit. The vast and sweeping majority of voters are already anti-racialism, so there's nothing to preach to there. I don't need to convince almost any normies that racialism is bad. The establishment are pushing racialism harder than anyone's seen in 70 years, and that's where my fight is: condemning the establishment, and stopping people like you from doing their bidding.
White people started moving away from Dems as the welfare state was being constructed. Blacks moved toward them in response.
I can't believe you sperged out over the phrase "we have." Take your meds.
How the hell was Trump's Platinum Plan not idpol? He also loves Israel, a country based on idpol.
Utter nonsense. Besides Socialist ideology and Social Welfare programs being implemented in all majority white countries during the later part of the industrial revolution, you'd have to claim that whites in America weren't voting for FDR.
White southerners started moving away from Democrats because the Democrats had clearly abandoned the old Southern aristocracy with LBJ who was making a new coalition. They had a choice between Wallace style progressive racialism under a different banner; or Goldwater Conservativism (effectively: American Classical Liberalism). They moved steadily towards that because the past 100 years of Progressive Racialism hadn't basically led them anywhere. Embracing economic liberalism lead to widespread economic growth in the south that it hadn't seen since the ending of the Civil War.
Blacks (almost entirely living in the South), were already voting Democrat in the 30's because no Republican candidates were allowed to exist there. FDR recruited black Socialists among his coalitions, and he was the one who actually was the last straw to break the Republican hold on black voters.
Way to reveal your hand in trying to preempt the downvotes by acting like we are the problem. No, people hate you because you post essay rants acting like a Super Intellectual who understands everything and everyone else needs your lectures.
And now you've revealed that you enjoy being that contrarian, meaning that your position can no longer ever be assumed to be in good faith and not you simply trying to take the opposite position of everyone here to act smug.
I've often wondered on places like r-politics why people want to post in a place where there are 300 identical opinions, and then post what 299 other people have said already.
And here you suggest that 'everyone' holds one sort of opinion. While I don't go out of my way to be a contrarian, it's better to have someone take the opposite position of everyone even for the sake of being contrarian, than for all opinions to be identical. There's a reason Devil's Advocate is a thing. An excess of contrarianism is to be preferred to an excess of conformity. If nothing else, I want to see if people have valid grounds for believing what they do, and if they can actually defend their opinions, rather than relying on the fact that they live in an echochamber where their views will never be challenged.
Except, that isn't what he is doing. That's you projecting what you believe you are doing onto him. Clearly you can understand the difference between "I am playing devil's advocate to generate discussion" and "I disagree with everyone to feel smarter because I totes got them with my relentless gish gallop!"
As I said below in a further reply to him, the issue isn't what he is doing, its how he is going about trying to do it and it being so bad it actively drives people away from taking him or his discussion seriously. The point I am making there is that he inadvertently revealed that he both knows this and even revels in it.
Badly selling your side doesn't accomplish anything. It makes those who are entrenched feel even more so, those on the sideline side with your opponents more, and those on your side have to wade into the fray to pick up your slack only to get dogpiled by a fresh off victory mob. The "truth and facts" you think you are speaking literally get lost into the void, because you as the contrarian failed them.
Its the same as when I used to criticize you for your crusade against Stormfags, and how I criticize TheImp for hurting my own crusade against women.
That's just your imagining of someone else's thoughts and feelings.
Because he said that others regard him as a 'subverter'?
The point is not to persuade people, but to create discussion.
No, its turning his own bullshit back on him:
He assumes everyone's feelings and thoughts (its why he constantly accuses me of bad faith for merely not agreeing with him). In that very top comment he is assuming miles of things about everyone's politics and beliefs simply because they don't think Blacks are going to support Republicans.
Yes, because its a moment of revealing he isn't a retarded autist (like Imp) or even a stubborn mule like yourself. Its self awareness to know that his methodology is martyrdom, but he does it anyway. And because he does it constantly, he clearly must derive some joy from it.
This runs contrary to your point of "An excess of contrarianism is to be preferred to an excess of conformity."
Because all it does is make most people feel more valid in their beliefs. They don't have to successfully defend them well, or have principles, or anything else you claimed it accomplishes. They can just point and laugh at someone trying to combat them badly and feel more validated.
It straight up increases the conformity simply because they now all know who each other are, have a common enemy to point and laugh at, and can strengthen each other's arguments by leeching off what they see other's say. DrJester was a classic example of an extreme example of literally driving people to join arms with the antisemites because of how awful his "contrarian" takes were.
If you want to generate discussion that's fine. But most of the discussion will just make the echo chamber stronger unless you are sufficiently charismatic and persuasive enough to make people question and back down on points, or at the very least likeable enough that people won't just call you a fag and stop engaging with you in real discussion.
Racialists are the problem. I'm not sorry. If you are going to act as cultural and political suicide bombers to support both Leftist narratives and Leftist political objectives by doing permanent damage to the political right and the anti-establishment populist movements, then you are nothing but Uesfull Idiots at best; and as I've been forced to accept over time: an explicit ally to Leftist movements at worst. You call me a subverter because I want you to save your money, start a business, raise a family, and not get subsubed by the ideology of race politics. But, you fuckers will turn around and support Fuentes, Milo, and Kanye so long as it blows up the Trump campaign, and then offer your support to local Fed PsyOp: Patriot Front.
I can't even begin to be as subversive as you all.
Beyond that, I don't give a shit that you don't like discussions on a forum.
And I don't actually enjoy being a contrarian, I'm actually quite an agreeable person. The problem is that i've had to learn to be disagreeable from people who engage solely in bad faith from an ideology based entirely on motivated reasoning, and Leftist meta-narratives. I understand your position: "lynch the nignogs", but honestly: you're crazy people and you should be belittled and mocked for your mind-breaking hatred and stupidity.
But, I suppose it's actually okay to be lectured by retards for the billionth time how "the holocaust didn't even happen bro" and "blacks are just a jewish golem". Those lectures are apparently totes legit and everyone should hear them multiple times a day.
I can call you one because even when I want to agree with you, I see your charisma as so bad that you actively turn people away from your side by being insufferable. A problem with a lot of intellectuals and faux intellectuals, who think if they just say enough facts they just win people over by looking smarter and better versed.
It is interesting that when called on that though you devolve to TheImp levels of "everyone who disagrees with me is a X Supremacist trying to trick you! I'm the voice of reason in a maelstrom!"
I'll tell you like I tell him. People disagree or agree with these takes all the time, the common element in the response you get is you and how you present the idea you are attempting to sell.
Considering the amount of times you've accused me of acting in bad faith for posting my genuine opinions because you just didn't like them and needed some way to dismiss it, this entire paragraph of you acting like a weathered martyr genius falls flat, hombre.
I agree that this is a problem: telling the truth and presenting evidence doesn't often persuade people, but it does help to delegitimize liars and zealots.
Not sure what gave you the idea I was an intellectual though.
I know the ideological narrative when it's spit back at me. It's the same shit. If someone's arguing about how we should adopt the Labour Theory of Value to set prices for good, I know they are a Marxist. That's an accurate assessment. I don't need to wait hours for them to finally admit it, I can just point it out and call them on their bullshit. If you fall into that ideology, it's not my problem that you don't want to be associated with the label that comes with it. "I'm not a Communist, I just think that if we equitably re-distribute wealth to the proletariat, we'll stop the inevitable violence that stems from the dialectical materialism!" No, that's communism. I know that, the person saying it knows that, we all know that, they are just playing stupid.
I don't disagree (except for that sell part). The problem is that I have cogent counter-points to motivated reasoning that people actually accept. That is why I'm "subversive". I said something that counters the narrative successfully.
As for selling, I'm not trying to "sell" you on not being a racialist idiot. In the same way I don't try to "sell" people to not play in traffic. It's horribly self-destructive and you shouldn't do it, but I can't stop you if you insist. Now, when you start dragging people into traffic, or trying to convince other people to play in traffic with you, that's when I have to challenge the bullshit.
You didn't come in with genuine opinions any of the other times, and you explicitly said you didn't. That's your fault, not mine. You are being a bit better today, so I'll give you that.
Hey, you know what doesn't delegitimize anyone?
Making yourself the center of negative attention to the point where no one listens to anything you say, and leaving all your FACTS AND LOGIC useless babble into the void.
Of course, its all dogwhistles and "I knows it when I sees it!" Someone who has a slight observation of there maybe looking like a lot of Jews in Hollywood is just a Stormfag trying to trick you! Everyone is in on the ruse and moves in lockstep, so you can reject everyone who disagrees with you instantly and equally!
It is funny you say this after saying "I'm totes not trying to be an intellectual." Because " I don't need to wait hours for [you] to finally admit it, I can just point it out and call [you] on [your] bullshit."
Yes, you are so smart and effective and great and that's why people take issue with you. Do you even hear yourself? All you keep doing is saying "I'M RIGHT THAT'S WHY EVERYONE HATES ME I'M SMARTER THAN THEM AND THEY HATE IT!!!"
I don't recall doing anything of the sort. I do recall you saying that your interpretation of what I said is what I believe, and then saying I admitted to saying things and continuing to crow about me saying things I never said in a spiral to circle jerk how bad faith I was.
I will, under no circumstance, be given anything but negative attention by all nearby stormfags, at all times, for disputing a stormfag. This is the essence of collectivism. Find the target: label, slander, defame.
I know it when I see it because I listen to them. I understand their ideology. Like other Leftists, sometimes I end up confronting people who don't understand their own ideology as much as I do. This is because I listened to them, understood them, saw where they were coming from, and saw how wrong they were about everything.
You'll note that your comparison has never been a legitimate criticism. It's never a 'slight difference of opinion in Hollywood about the number of jews'. That's an easy conversation. That's an issue about identifying the cause of a disparity in outcome, which normally the result of natural processes.
The issue is that I'm only greeted from stormfags with: "Jews control Hollywood because, as a race, they are dedicated to spreading jewish propaganda to hypnotize and pacify white populations, and get them to accept socialist values which will allow for a jewish takeover of society. They have an additional objective to disseminate porn to the masses as a weapon of war against white populations to pacify them in general and dissolve families as part of a larger genocidal campaign."
How do I know that? Well, because that's the argument I get every time someone mentions jews in Hollywood. Even if it was not by a stormfag, and only done in passing.
Then they should stop literally telling me that.
Yes, because it was your exact words.
Yes of course. Its all a perfect conspiracy of lockstep actions against you that they have coordinated together to always immediately discredit. Because you are so smart and special see? They have to, they all crawl out of the woodwork to shut you down because if not the people might turn against them!!
Once again, your narcissism bleeds through everything you saw. But considering you came back to this nearly a week later, I suppose just you responding is an act of hurt ego constructed to act like a principled position.
Except it has, because that's literally a situation I went through. Not from you, to make that clear, but over the lifespan of this little shithole we share and priorly on reddit. I had no strong feelings about Jews, but I did agree "hey there are a lot of them clustered in places, that's a little odd" and I had anti-Stormfags jump down my throat that I was a secret Stormfag who needed to admit to my foul sin! I was just pretending to "notice" and "just ask questions" as a dogwhistle to trick the ignorant normies to my side!!
That's why I take such umbrage against you anti-Stormfag tards. Its why I went at Antonio dozens of times over his crusade against them. Because you are so deep in your little mindgames you construct this fucking psycho drama where everyone is working in conspiracy to accomplish some grand task with subterfuge and secret codes.
Considering how you seem to interpret my words and extract "you said exactly this and are now gaslighting me by not agreeing with my narrative of them omg" from them, I take massive doubt with them actually saying anything close to that to you.
The dirt isn’t magic, retard. The nation is the people, and the American nation is over.
Never said anything about magic dirt, fuckwit. The nation is the people. The American nation is alive and well, you just don't like it because it was always a Liberal Civic Nation. You're welcome to leave.
Not me. So I guess you’re talking to someone other than the author of this post. Pandering to Hispanics actually makes sense now because they are the ascendent voting demographic in America.
Yeah, I totally hate you because of the cool label you’ve given yourself. This shit is embarrassing lol
That’s because of illegals. They need to get sent back.
Riiiiiiiiiight. I'm just going to ignore the implication that they weren't an ascendent voting demographic in America since the Hart-Celler Act.
"Secret Jewish Subverter" is the label you motherfuckers gave me. I'm just going to keep harping on it to prove how stupid and motivated your reasoning is.
Blacks support whomever will give them free stuff & ignore their bad behavior.
I support both Tate and hot girls in video games, so you’re conflating different people.
Your 90s era argument that conservative ideas with a religious leanings are a losing proposition is equally hilarious. When have they ever been put in place for people in our lifetime as proof that they don’t work? Or are we using the fact that they never get passed as proof that they don’t work?
This statement may be true in 2012 (why would you support Romney over Obama), but it's not true now. A very small number of Republicans are decent.
The art of politics is to get those in power to move towards you, willingly or unwillingly.
Its amazing how a guy who built his entire empire on getting men so addicted to simping and porn that they destroy their lives is somehow the Savior of the Right because he got super rich and said some of the most obvious shit known to man.
But I guess convincing a bunch of guys to ruin everything around them in pursuit of nothing is progress, as long as you don't actually give a shit about those guys at all. Men are disposable after all, which makes your views mirror the Left. Lonely white men are just the fodder trash for both you and the Left's political posturing.