Saw some ads at a cinema lately, every ad featured electric cars, either directly or indirectly. Not a single gas powered car.
I think I have seen one electric car in real life here, stuff doesn't add up. Poor people can't buy brand new fucking cars and everyone is getting poorer by the year.
Oh you won't buy it. If you're middle-class, you'll lease it. If you're lower-class, you'll be relegated to public transit only. You will own nothing, and you will be happy.
Toyota’s rivals, including General Motors and Honda Motor Company, have set dates for when their lineups will be all-electric. However, Toyota has invested in a collection of models that includes hydrogen-powered cars and gas/electric hybrids, The Wall Street Journal reports.
Tons of talk about hydrogen cars in the comments too. Hmm.
If I remember right audi also has plans on going electric too. Their goal is to effectively have 100-foot extension cords attached to each vehicle, as that's the distance one of them can go before it needs to see a mechanic again.
Just the energy costs of liquefying hydrogen is more than the total energy gained by burning the fuel. I did an assignment paper on hydrogen as a fuel, and the only thing it remotely makes sense for is large ships ... that are shipping hydrogen.
Liquefying it is nuts. But there are a few better solutions on the horizon. Solid State hydrogen storage for example.
Apparently it's so good that the DOD put their patents on hold.
Due to these successes, Plasma Kinetics had to put its plans (and patents) on hold for nearly a decade because the Department of Defense wanted to gain a lead in applying Smith’s methodology to missile tech and other military applications.
If I could have something in my garage that charged up a big cassette that I could swap in I'd consider jumping on board.
Stuff like this makes me wonder what other innovations the government in general and the DOD in particular are squashing.
Toyota has always been against electric for a good reason:
hybrids are far more efficient to scale up, because electrics need too much Lithium and global lithium production/reserves are not enough to keep up with electric cars going mainstream.
Toyota is already using NiMH batteries as an alternative to lithium.
They've already admitted that their isn't enough lithium or rare earth minerals to replace gas vehicles. That's the point, they aren't replacing gas cars, they are getting rid of cars. Only the rich get to have freedom of travel, peasants have to ride the bus or get a uber.
They seem to be followers in recent years. They don't innovate, just build solid versions of what has proven to work in the industry.
If Toyota is averse to EVs, it's because they don't believe EVs are the future. The fact that one of the world's most successful car companies says this speaks volumes, and will ripple across the industry.
I believe you're correct, they've definitely flipflopped on the subject. They did have modern EV projects running recently, and it sounds like the results are not up to their standards for a consumer car (like most EVs).
A lot of people think that you can just buy an EV and call it a day. They think they can get all those perceived benefits (cheaper than gas, etc) since day one. The reality is that, you gotta adjust to the charging lifestyle and its changes to your schedule. Not everyone has the luxury of having a dedicated 240v charger in their own garage. Then you have to worry about not charging around peak rates because that shit will cost you almost the same per mile as gas.
You are going from 5 minute fillups to hours. Even if you go the DC fast chargers, you will have to wait 30 mins or so. Those aint cheap either. More on that later.
You have to have you own home to even do that tho, - so stop being poor! Also you better sign up for one of those time of use plans where you have suffer thru the heat during the day sweeting your balls off cause they will rape you with extra peak rates if you dare to turn on the AC. You almost have to live like in the dark ages during the day just so you can charge your car at night for a decent rate.
A lot of people rent or live in multi family condos, even in newer ones you have a only few dedicated charging spots, with the added stress and drama of people camping the chargers for hours and hours even when done charging. Are you going to check if someone unplugged their car when they were done charging at 3:00 AM. Would you remember or have the courtesy to unplug your car and move it at 3:00AM? Fuck no.
Also Installing a charger aint cheap, unless you DIY it.
Public charging infrastructure is a joke. I guess you could use a regular 120v outlet, but that only charges at a rate of 3 miles per hour vs a 30 miles per hour with a 240V - it also less efficient.
So you end up buying a Tesla then have to dedicate a couple hours per week to sit in your car to charge at the supercharger. Sure you could go to the store, go to grab a coffee, or even dinner - but those xtra expenses add up. Taking any roadtrip sucks balls, having to stop every couple hours to charge. All that xtra time adds up. A 10 hr drive becomes a 15 hour one. I did that, never again. Autopilot sure is great, but I came live with dumb cruise control.
Not counting that using those Tesla superchargers is not that much cheaper than gas. Tesla fees just increased in CA. At $.58 - $.61 per kwh. At that rate, it cost to the same as a 40mpg ICE @ $6 per gallon. (The Model 3 averages 250-280 watts per mile, higher for heavier models. $.61 / 4 = $.15 per mile driven.
Unless you choose to sit in your car between 00:00 - 08:00 for the offpeak rate, in some dark corner of some mall and homeless hanging around.
There is one sweet spot: if your work wants to join the virtue signaling trend and offer free or reduced charging. Thats the stuff right there. EVs make for great commuter cars, but buying one just to save on gas when you already have a car is not a sound financial move, specially if such car is already paid off.
Tl;dr just buy an house with that EV to save on gas! Oh an add solar.
I'm not sure I understand the electricity thing, or maybe it's just your power provider. Mine has 2 basic kinds: metered and (peak) demand charging. The thing about charging your car would be if you did that while you did everything else at home that would spike your peak demand, so that plan would be bad for you. I'm not sure how it would go if you only charged while you're sleeping.
IDK what a Tesla fee is. Here you would pay .14 kwh*** on a standard metered plan, which is what I have. You can use that whenever you want. I consider that a shitty rate because I like Texas electricity prices.
***Technically "up to" .14 hr but there are also some BS fees so for me it works out to about that
I don't actually have an electric car to tell you what it costs though, but i was curious why you have to "sweat your balls off" to charge cheaply at night.
Since Chevy discontinued the Volt I'm probably going to get a 2023 Prius prime. I get free charging at work so the 40 mile pure electric will work for my Mon-Fri commute. And the gas engine works for my weekend getaways.
Probably debadge it though to reduce the guilt by association with other Prius weenies.
Hopefully they've made the catalytic converter harder to pinch.
Based in the TeslaCam channel there's plenty of Tesla hate to go around. But I think we're getting close to the optimal car shape as far as wind resistance. They're probably all going to look pretty close to the same in the next 10 years.
If you have free charging just get a Model 3 man bro.
I love turning wrenches with regular ICE cars, but the Model 3 is the perfect commuter car. You can always supercharger in the weekends, but with ~300 range you should be able to get around to charge it again at work on Mondays.
I get your reasoning but I still would rather have something I can dump a few gallons of dino juice in and get a few hundred miles. I have a cabin way up in the hinterlands (Sonora California area).
Plus the fit and finish of the Tesla just isn't up to what they're charging. And based on a friend, my boss and consumer reports the reliability is pretty substandard as well.
Thought they came out with this and said it wasnt possible the technology isn’t guaranteed to be as reliable. If they like every other manufacture do this they are going to see real quickly by 2027 that they put all their eggs in the wrong basket. If anything they need to start researching hydrogen and get ahead. Honestly i think all car manufactures have some agreement not to produce hydrogen even though they probably can already.
Toyota already had a fully functioning hydrogen fuel cell car in the US, the Mirai. It gets same range as a gas car, costs about the same, and can fill up in about five minutes. It's proven tech. Also, it's electric motor powered. They're working on a Hilux version now. I'm convinced HFC will beat out BEV after a hard fight. BEV has all the hype, but batteries are super unreliable and finicky, and expensive, and hazardous, and weight anywhere from 1500-3000 pounds for a normal two axle vehicle. Add on the hour plus charging time, it's not feasible.
welcome back imp, and yeah anytime i see what looks like an inorganic push i stop and think how are they gonna fuck folks today. this hydrogen push has the earmarks of that quality too...
Saw some ads at a cinema lately, every ad featured electric cars, either directly or indirectly. Not a single gas powered car.
I think I have seen one electric car in real life here, stuff doesn't add up. Poor people can't buy brand new fucking cars and everyone is getting poorer by the year.
Oh you won't buy it. If you're middle-class, you'll lease it. If you're lower-class, you'll be relegated to public transit only. You will own nothing, and you will be happy.
Like the other guy said, the plan is not for you to have a car necessarily
Its like james bond driving an eco friendly car haha.
Archive: https://archive.is/RJ2oC
Tons of talk about hydrogen cars in the comments too. Hmm.
Honda going all electric?? Tears in the rain bro
If I remember right audi also has plans on going electric too. Their goal is to effectively have 100-foot extension cords attached to each vehicle, as that's the distance one of them can go before it needs to see a mechanic again.
Please say it isn't so
Hydrogen powered cars are outright idiocy.
Just the energy costs of liquefying hydrogen is more than the total energy gained by burning the fuel. I did an assignment paper on hydrogen as a fuel, and the only thing it remotely makes sense for is large ships ... that are shipping hydrogen.
Liquefying it is nuts. But there are a few better solutions on the horizon. Solid State hydrogen storage for example.
Apparently it's so good that the DOD put their patents on hold.
If I could have something in my garage that charged up a big cassette that I could swap in I'd consider jumping on board.
Stuff like this makes me wonder what other innovations the government in general and the DOD in particular are squashing.
Toyota has always been against electric for a good reason:
hybrids are far more efficient to scale up, because electrics need too much Lithium and global lithium production/reserves are not enough to keep up with electric cars going mainstream.
Toyota is already using NiMH batteries as an alternative to lithium.
They've already admitted that their isn't enough lithium or rare earth minerals to replace gas vehicles. That's the point, they aren't replacing gas cars, they are getting rid of cars. Only the rich get to have freedom of travel, peasants have to ride the bus or get a uber.
I'm picturing mice in a capsule, Badnik style.
Biker Mice From Mars????
Naw, man. Afghanistan is full of Lithium. All those mountains are made of the stuff.
We just need to go back in!
Toyota tends to be smart designers.
They seem to be followers in recent years. They don't innovate, just build solid versions of what has proven to work in the industry.
If Toyota is averse to EVs, it's because they don't believe EVs are the future. The fact that one of the world's most successful car companies says this speaks volumes, and will ripple across the industry.
this isn't even the first time they've said this iirc
I believe you're correct, they've definitely flipflopped on the subject. They did have modern EV projects running recently, and it sounds like the results are not up to their standards for a consumer car (like most EVs).
They're often doing the Japanese box design method.
A lot of people think that you can just buy an EV and call it a day. They think they can get all those perceived benefits (cheaper than gas, etc) since day one. The reality is that, you gotta adjust to the charging lifestyle and its changes to your schedule. Not everyone has the luxury of having a dedicated 240v charger in their own garage. Then you have to worry about not charging around peak rates because that shit will cost you almost the same per mile as gas.
You are going from 5 minute fillups to hours. Even if you go the DC fast chargers, you will have to wait 30 mins or so. Those aint cheap either. More on that later.
You have to have you own home to even do that tho, - so stop being poor! Also you better sign up for one of those time of use plans where you have suffer thru the heat during the day sweeting your balls off cause they will rape you with extra peak rates if you dare to turn on the AC. You almost have to live like in the dark ages during the day just so you can charge your car at night for a decent rate.
A lot of people rent or live in multi family condos, even in newer ones you have a only few dedicated charging spots, with the added stress and drama of people camping the chargers for hours and hours even when done charging. Are you going to check if someone unplugged their car when they were done charging at 3:00 AM. Would you remember or have the courtesy to unplug your car and move it at 3:00AM? Fuck no. Also Installing a charger aint cheap, unless you DIY it.
Public charging infrastructure is a joke. I guess you could use a regular 120v outlet, but that only charges at a rate of 3 miles per hour vs a 30 miles per hour with a 240V - it also less efficient.
So you end up buying a Tesla then have to dedicate a couple hours per week to sit in your car to charge at the supercharger. Sure you could go to the store, go to grab a coffee, or even dinner - but those xtra expenses add up. Taking any roadtrip sucks balls, having to stop every couple hours to charge. All that xtra time adds up. A 10 hr drive becomes a 15 hour one. I did that, never again. Autopilot sure is great, but I came live with dumb cruise control.
Not counting that using those Tesla superchargers is not that much cheaper than gas. Tesla fees just increased in CA. At $.58 - $.61 per kwh. At that rate, it cost to the same as a 40mpg ICE @ $6 per gallon. (The Model 3 averages 250-280 watts per mile, higher for heavier models. $.61 / 4 = $.15 per mile driven.
Unless you choose to sit in your car between 00:00 - 08:00 for the offpeak rate, in some dark corner of some mall and homeless hanging around.
There is one sweet spot: if your work wants to join the virtue signaling trend and offer free or reduced charging. Thats the stuff right there. EVs make for great commuter cars, but buying one just to save on gas when you already have a car is not a sound financial move, specially if such car is already paid off.
Tl;dr just buy an house with that EV to save on gas! Oh an add solar.
I look forward to an increase in homes burning down
I'm not sure I understand the electricity thing, or maybe it's just your power provider. Mine has 2 basic kinds: metered and (peak) demand charging. The thing about charging your car would be if you did that while you did everything else at home that would spike your peak demand, so that plan would be bad for you. I'm not sure how it would go if you only charged while you're sleeping.
IDK what a Tesla fee is. Here you would pay .14 kwh*** on a standard metered plan, which is what I have. You can use that whenever you want. I consider that a shitty rate because I like Texas electricity prices.
***Technically "up to" .14 hr but there are also some BS fees so for me it works out to about that
I don't actually have an electric car to tell you what it costs though, but i was curious why you have to "sweat your balls off" to charge cheaply at night.
https://www.sdge.com/residential/pricing-plans/about-our-pricing-plans/electric-vehicle-plans
Well if your "regular" off peak is 38c or whatever that's a problem
Time to invest in Toyota.
Everyone I have ever met that owns a Toyota car, truck, or suv have loved it.
we've got a prado going on like 30 years. It's been great, and has been the cheapest to service.
Since Chevy discontinued the Volt I'm probably going to get a 2023 Prius prime. I get free charging at work so the 40 mile pure electric will work for my Mon-Fri commute. And the gas engine works for my weekend getaways.
Probably debadge it though to reduce the guilt by association with other Prius weenies.
Hopefully they've made the catalytic converter harder to pinch.
The redesign looks pretty unPrius'y, though. I may be able to get by with it.
Looks weird with huge wheels and tiny brakes
Based in the TeslaCam channel there's plenty of Tesla hate to go around. But I think we're getting close to the optimal car shape as far as wind resistance. They're probably all going to look pretty close to the same in the next 10 years.
I'm surprised if mfrs care about shape when the vehicle is going to weigh 6000 lbs because of the batteries
If you have free charging just get a Model 3 man bro. I love turning wrenches with regular ICE cars, but the Model 3 is the perfect commuter car. You can always supercharger in the weekends, but with ~300 range you should be able to get around to charge it again at work on Mondays.
I get your reasoning but I still would rather have something I can dump a few gallons of dino juice in and get a few hundred miles. I have a cabin way up in the hinterlands (Sonora California area).
Plus the fit and finish of the Tesla just isn't up to what they're charging. And based on a friend, my boss and consumer reports the reliability is pretty substandard as well.
The physics that would permit a world of all electric cars simply don't exist right now.
Akio Toyoda did not commit seppuku.
Thought they came out with this and said it wasnt possible the technology isn’t guaranteed to be as reliable. If they like every other manufacture do this they are going to see real quickly by 2027 that they put all their eggs in the wrong basket. If anything they need to start researching hydrogen and get ahead. Honestly i think all car manufactures have some agreement not to produce hydrogen even though they probably can already.
Toyota already had a fully functioning hydrogen fuel cell car in the US, the Mirai. It gets same range as a gas car, costs about the same, and can fill up in about five minutes. It's proven tech. Also, it's electric motor powered. They're working on a Hilux version now. I'm convinced HFC will beat out BEV after a hard fight. BEV has all the hype, but batteries are super unreliable and finicky, and expensive, and hazardous, and weight anywhere from 1500-3000 pounds for a normal two axle vehicle. Add on the hour plus charging time, it's not feasible.
Thanks for the insight i will look into the mirai
It wouldn't work. It's just not efficient, especially here, where most people live in apartment blocks
Tying women to a car discussion is like a superpower or something
It's Imp. He's no different from Stormfags that tie "muh joos" to everything, just with women instead.
welcome back imp, and yeah anytime i see what looks like an inorganic push i stop and think how are they gonna fuck folks today. this hydrogen push has the earmarks of that quality too...
i haven't heard anything about hydrogen except for this month on this site.
Same.