This is how “high trust” societies function. It’s probably how our kids would be living if globalists weren’t destroying our country through immigration.
Eh... Japan is an autistically bureaucratic and collectivist (not in the commie way, but the way that their community enforces social norms) country. Imagine losing your job and your reputation because you missed the trashcan or something.
If anything this makes me wonder how paranoid the average Jap has to be about stepping out of line. This dude's life is probably ruined in the long-term over this.
I love some of their artistic/entertainment products and music, but I prefer my freedom and more reasonable social norms, thanks.
The word you are looking for is conformist. Extreme social pressure to "fit in" drives all kinds of weird shit there, and is in large part responsible for their suicide rate that is much higher than ours.
Hmmmm, data I'm seeing puts their rate per 100k as higher than US by about 10%, but not as high as I thought it was. It wasn't that long ago that their suicide rate was enormous.
Imagine losing your job and your reputation because you missed the trashcan or something. If anything this makes me wonder how paranoid the average Jap has to be about stepping out of line.
Conformist yes, but that doesn't mean everyone is paranoid. This guy didn't miss the trashcan - he admitted to stealing multiple times. The reaction sounds extreme, but I have to wonder how much is "ok" to steal for an authority figure and role-model of children?
He'll probably be allowed to make a comeback after some time has passed and further apologies, but he'll never get a big promotion/salary unless he moves somewhere where the locals didn't hear the news.
Bro, dude was 60 years old. I think it was just old person cheapness.
Dude can no longer retire or work in his field because of a grand total of... $3.50? Wow, what a monster.
It should've just been a reimbursement, a fine, or hell, a fucking warning if even that. Calling the police, hunting him down, and making a scandal out of this is frankly, embarrassing. Yeah, he shouldn't have done it, but this is so minor an infraction that hunting him down makes it seem like a joke.
It probably cost the state more money in transportation costs (read: gas money) to reach this guy than he actually fucking stole over the course of months. One wonders why the guy wasn't just confronted by the employee and asked to pay what he actually owed.
If you told me you called the police on a 60 year old man for something like this, I'd wonder if you were a sociopath with nothing better to do. Good luck to him making a comeback at this stage, I'm sure a lot of schools will want a disgraced guy close to death.
I mean hell, this is the kind of scandal and disgrace you could see a suicide over, have some fucking perspective dude.
This is the correct take. Ruining someone’s career over exploiting for an extra $1 of coffee over the course of a period of time is no different than commie fucks hear trying to ruin your career because you didn’t supply money for a kid to get transitioned.
If you told me you called the police on a 60 year old man for something like this, I'd wonder if you were a sociopath with nothing better to do. Good luck to him making a comeback at this stage, I'm sure a lot of schools will want a disgraced guy close to death.
No, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. I was more speaking in general about how to treat people in authority who do this. They went totally overboard in his particular case (especially taking away his pension), he did admit the theft and apologize, and I bet even most Japanese people would agree the reaction seems extreme. He hasn't "disgraced" himself. I'm sure he'll be able to get another job after some time passes. Maybe not as an administrator, if only because of the ageism there.
have some fucking perspective dude.
Chill out, I'm not the one who called the police. I only asked what people thought the appropriate punishment should be. Getting away with "just say sorry and pay back the $3.50" is too easy unless we're talking about a child.
I would not be surprised if like someone else here suggested the school only used this excuse to cover up some other hidden scandal... or maybe someone else on campus just hated him and wanted to take his job.
Ah yes, so we should cut his hands off for this grave offense too while we're at it, eh Muhammad?
While we're at it, we should go after people who eat grapes from the grocery store, and people who jaywalk too should be on the chopping block next, they've had it too good for too long. Execute them all I say.
By the way citizen, I noticed you were a few cents off on your tax filing... you should have been more careful. I sure hope you enjoyed your life until now.
This is exactly what has led to the moral decline of the West. You think: well, it's just 50 cents, so I guess stealing isn't all that bad. When this sets in motion the slippery slope, the undefeated champion, up to the point that thefts of up to $950 are tolerated in California.
Churchill once asked a woman if she'd have sex with him for a million pounds. She said yes. Then he asked if she'd do it for 10 pounds. She said, why, do you think I'm a whore? And he said: Ma'am, we've already established what you are, now we're haggling over the price. And this is what you're doing. You have basically stated that it's OK to steal what you regard as small sums, and now you're haggling with California over how much it's OK to steal.
Stealing grapes: yes, people shouldn't be putting their disgusting paws on food to begin with. That's worse than stealing.
Jaywalking isn't a crime anywhere outside of America (that I'm aware of), so that's just uncommon silliness.
Is what happened to this guy draconian? Well, yeah. Was it undeserved? No. Having a functioning society has a price, and I'd rather that people like this pay the price than to have my city turned into Chicago.
No, its not that stealing isn't all that bad, its that there are clear degrees of crime and wrongdoing, you fucking dense buffoon.
The punishment should fit the fucking crime, but then again I'm talking with someone who has no idea that even his history of being a reddit liberal in the past could be used to end him in the future if the pendulum swings back hard enough.
If you think human's life is worth $3.50, I'd ask you what separates you from those niggers who kill each other over $20 in the ghettos. The difference is that you could probably moralize yourself into believing you're somehow better for it because you have a rule you can point to for your bloodlust and sadism, as if you've never done anything wrong in your own life, ever.
Absolutely graceless and completely lacking in self-awareness.
Context, cost and scale are important for determining degrees of punishment.
You're correct that ALL crimes need punishment to deter even simple infractions, but the context of the crime and the scale of the punishment need to be doled out in respect to the cost it has on society when it comes to stability and maintaining cultural consistency.
In short, the context was over something minor (i.e., coffee), the cost of which was also minor (less than $5) while the scale of punishment was more than what was taken, and a potentially greater detriment to the man's life than what crime he had committed.
I've posted this before and I posted it again, more than half the people here who praise Japan wouldn't last five seconds in that society precisely because of what you describe. I've trained with Japanese martial arts instructors, possibly going to see about travelling to Japan sometime to maybe train there as well and holiday a bit depending.
The passive aggressive politeness with them is real. They're totally nice generally and quite forgiving of foreigners don't get me wrong, but their society is very much fuck around and find out and you have to know how to adapt to their society pretty well. People here are too individualistic so they'd immediately start stepping on toes if they hung around Japan long term. That's why there's partly a problem of even the westerners living in expat bubbles and not really adapting.
I totally agree I wouldn't really last living in Japan, and if I visited I would definitely be relying on their kindness and forgiveness. all that being said, I would not ask them to change a thing. From everything I've watched and read, their society is extremely clean and safe.
On a personal level, I think their weapons laws are extreme (historical fencing with steel trainers is more illegal there than owning a machine gun is in the US), their work culture is oppressive, their seniority system elevates people who don't deserve it while belittling people who do, and their complete allergy to rudeness is even more insulting than if they would just speak their mind. But this is all coming from a person who lives in an individualistic society were the murder rate is much higher, drug use is out of control, the streets are filled with litter, walking around at night is begging for a mugging, productivity and ingenuity are being outsourced to foreign countries, and degenerate lifestyles are considered a moral good amongst a significant portion of the population.
While I have a few theories, I don't know exactly what it is that they do that makes their society so much cleaner than ours, but whatever they're doing it's working.
Oh yeah, I'm just pointing out the realities, as for our own individualistic society, it's not about individualism itself that's the problem the rule of law has completely broken down into a system of nepotism and you see it day to day. Don't ever let twats like Jon Stewart gaslight about that and claim it's the price of freedom, they're lying. You don't have to have mass migration in a free society.
People getting caught sometimes doing the worse things imaginable and they end up getting executives jobs at corporations or they're simply moved to another part of the country while the heat dies down. Mass migration of course and the blatant discrimination going on against normal citizens has gotten to ridiculous levels and is only going to get worse.
We can still enforce the law without becoming collectivists, it's just about there being any kind of political will behind it. Right now there's nothing, even with the people who claim to care about it the most.
When you lock it down as much as they do, you lose individuality at the sake of making sure degenerates are caged up.
Except Japan is still full of antisocial whack jobs, so idk if there’s a fair balance where you can toss stones at the freaks but also not get smited just for $3 of coffee
When you lock it down as much as they do, you lose individuality
I'm honestly not sure what that means. It reminds me of the arguments in the 2000s against school uniforms in the US. Nobody could explain to me how wearing certain clothes a few hours a day was restrictive or what personal individuality was lost. I know they lean more collectivist there but that's cultural not because anything is locked down.
the US had it made at one point. Most of our cities were clean, murder rates were low, drug use was highly stigmatized and therefore underground, our productivity was high, and so was the quality of our exports.
of course, it's not like that now, but it does show that it can be done withoutsacrificing the rights of the individual.
I think most people are aware Japan has it's own share of problems, especially in major cities where the work culture and conformity are at their maximum, but what people find refreshing is that these are an entirely different set of problems from our own.
More and More, Japan's problems seem relatively quaint and managable on the grand scale. There's always a chance that a decade of good governance could right the ship, and deal with the worst of it.
In comparison, people are losing hope that the west can be fixed at all. For many, destruction of western culture seems immanent. I'm not that black pilled, but I can see where they are coming from. In any case, it would probably take more than a decade to resolve the issues we find ourselves mired in.
(Unless this all ends in fire, that can fix issues astonishingly fast. However, that's an even more undesirable solution for most.)
Yep I'd rather have a Japanese lady at 7-11 be fake polite to me than some rude Indian guy trying to overcharge me on an out of date product and then having a group of teens outside the store ask "you wanna get fuckin smashed eh cunt?"
I really miss how the west (or at least NZ where I grew up) used to be 20+ years ago.
At that time I'd say it was superior to Japan. But right now it's fucked. Not sure if its salvageable.
Partly a problem of even the westerners living in expat bubbles and not really adapting.
Not unique to Japan, either. A significant percentage of the western population in Korea lives in Seoul and frequents these same kind of bubbles. I knew Westerners who lived in Korea for years who couldn't read basic Korean, which is sad because it takes about 15 minutes to learn.
But I do think Japan is easy to navigate as a tourist if you pack your humility. I've fucked up numerous times myself, including walking into a hotel lobby with my shoes on. The reaction to that transgression was severe - imagine one of those record-scratch moments in a movie - but was quickly moved past by listening.
This also helped me out quite a bit when my wife's lab brought in a Japanese postdoc. We helped his family navigate US society a bit and we made some lifelong friends out of the deal.
Of all my international friendships, my Japanese friends are the most rock-solid.
we used to have manners (social norms), culture, and a functioning society in the USA too. step out of line and you were kicked out of your community. it worked.
All true. Working for a Japanese company would be hell. I doubt I could endure it.
Im lucky enough to work remote.
In regards to martial arts. This might not be a common experience but the kendo clubs I train at here are much more relaxed about manners and other formalities than in the western clubs Ive been to.
More physically demanding and more skilled, but just sloppy with manners.
Not what I had expected.
Being a forigner, at first they do offer you a lot of opportunities to be held to a lower standard.
Decline those offers.
Its a good way to quickly make real friends. Theres a lot of value in shared suffering.
'Deference to your superior' is a real thing and very interesting to see in action.
God help you if you, say, run a training camp without permission or at the same time as someone else higher ranked than you are. You will get in some hot water and you will be apologizing. In writing.
I've seen this happen. My own sensei won't have class if there's a training camp going on, specifically because of that. There's an arguably valid reason behind said action, mind, but it's fascinating to actually experience it.
Imagine losing your job and your reputation because you missed the trashcan or something.
It reminds me of that TNG episode where that one planet was going to execute Wil Wheaton because he fell on some of their flowers. LOL.
On one hand, losing your retirement over semi-stealing coffee seems a bit too much, but on the other, if a system ends up making it so that we don't have to deal with the douchebaggery of Wil "The Douche" Wheaton? Eh, maybe it's not all bad.
All i know is that if i wanted to sell second hard mtg cards to stores in japan i needed to give them my identification and address. And this was 20 years ago. I always thought that was a bit insane
This is what enforces social cohesion though it does have consequences in mass conformity.
I know when everyone was wearing masks, when it was no longer enforced people were so used to wearing them that it took MONTHS to ditch them, anecdotally I heard from some it took the one guy to not wear theirs, then you'd have few looking around seeing they weren't in trouble then the next bravest would take theirs off and begin a chain reaction.
On the flip side though, it does make it a bureaucratic hell hole at times, try opening a bank there to understand what I mean..
It starts with cutting in line. When people are guilted into thinking "No big deal, it only happens once in a while", they are surprised to see the behavior propagate and subsequently ask "Why is everyone cutting in line now? What happened to manners?"
I think arguing for the appropriate punishment makes sense, but the "not a big deal" attitude is how society devolves. People didn't just spontaneously develop customs and norms. Certain pressures existed to create them.
might be more to this story than what they are telling everyone
this seems like a, "he was doing something quite terrible but we don't want it getting out to the public or overseas because it was quite bad and would cause us to lose face", kind of situation. which is common with crime in Japan and other parts of the East.
The equivalent in the USA is a bunch of blacks chimping-out in a McDonard's, trashing the place and damaging the equipment, and none of them are held accountable.
It is theft. Of a small amount, sure, but still theft.
A company giving you a Large because they ran out of Small cups, that's a bonus from them. But taking one yourself without permission, is stealing. "But it's 50 cents!" If a person went into a grocer's, and as a morning ritual, stole a KitKat, not because they were starving or broke, but just because they don't feel awake enough without shoplifting a chocolate bar every single morning... It's less than a dollar, but there's still something pretty important going wrong there, that isn't in line with the views of the company or society.
Japan has insanely strict laws, and in some cases it could be easy to suggest it's very much over the top. However. Japan also does NOT have an issue with prison overcrowding.
As per usual, if it's not strict, overzealous laws that cause prison overcrowding, what is it? And the vast majority here already know that answer, but people not paying attention need to be asked in that way because they instinctively reject uncomfortable truths. They need to stumble upon the answer themselves.
This is how “high trust” societies function. It’s probably how our kids would be living if globalists weren’t destroying our country through immigration.
Eh... Japan is an autistically bureaucratic and collectivist (not in the commie way, but the way that their community enforces social norms) country. Imagine losing your job and your reputation because you missed the trashcan or something.
If anything this makes me wonder how paranoid the average Jap has to be about stepping out of line. This dude's life is probably ruined in the long-term over this.
I love some of their artistic/entertainment products and music, but I prefer my freedom and more reasonable social norms, thanks.
The word you are looking for is conformist. Extreme social pressure to "fit in" drives all kinds of weird shit there, and is in large part responsible for their suicide rate that is much higher than ours.
Japanese suicide rate is similar to the suicide rates of Europeans, including White Americans.
Hmmmm, data I'm seeing puts their rate per 100k as higher than US by about 10%, but not as high as I thought it was. It wasn't that long ago that their suicide rate was enormous.
Ah that's it, thanks.
Their suicide rate is lower than the US, retard.
Yeah but usa has a huge 41% population
This is the issue of working in percentages lol, be wary of that.
No it isn't
Conformist yes, but that doesn't mean everyone is paranoid. This guy didn't miss the trashcan - he admitted to stealing multiple times. The reaction sounds extreme, but I have to wonder how much is "ok" to steal for an authority figure and role-model of children?
He'll probably be allowed to make a comeback after some time has passed and further apologies, but he'll never get a big promotion/salary unless he moves somewhere where the locals didn't hear the news.
Bro, dude was 60 years old. I think it was just old person cheapness.
Dude can no longer retire or work in his field because of a grand total of... $3.50? Wow, what a monster.
It should've just been a reimbursement, a fine, or hell, a fucking warning if even that. Calling the police, hunting him down, and making a scandal out of this is frankly, embarrassing. Yeah, he shouldn't have done it, but this is so minor an infraction that hunting him down makes it seem like a joke.
It probably cost the state more money in transportation costs (read: gas money) to reach this guy than he actually fucking stole over the course of months. One wonders why the guy wasn't just confronted by the employee and asked to pay what he actually owed.
If you told me you called the police on a 60 year old man for something like this, I'd wonder if you were a sociopath with nothing better to do. Good luck to him making a comeback at this stage, I'm sure a lot of schools will want a disgraced guy close to death.
I mean hell, this is the kind of scandal and disgrace you could see a suicide over, have some fucking perspective dude.
This is the correct take. Ruining someone’s career over exploiting for an extra $1 of coffee over the course of a period of time is no different than commie fucks hear trying to ruin your career because you didn’t supply money for a kid to get transitioned.
It’s a gross over correction
No, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. I was more speaking in general about how to treat people in authority who do this. They went totally overboard in his particular case (especially taking away his pension), he did admit the theft and apologize, and I bet even most Japanese people would agree the reaction seems extreme. He hasn't "disgraced" himself. I'm sure he'll be able to get another job after some time passes. Maybe not as an administrator, if only because of the ageism there.
Chill out, I'm not the one who called the police. I only asked what people thought the appropriate punishment should be. Getting away with "just say sorry and pay back the $3.50" is too easy unless we're talking about a child.
I would not be surprised if like someone else here suggested the school only used this excuse to cover up some other hidden scandal... or maybe someone else on campus just hated him and wanted to take his job.
It doesn't matter how much you steal, it matters that you steal.
Ah yes, so we should cut his hands off for this grave offense too while we're at it, eh Muhammad?
While we're at it, we should go after people who eat grapes from the grocery store, and people who jaywalk too should be on the chopping block next, they've had it too good for too long. Execute them all I say.
By the way citizen, I noticed you were a few cents off on your tax filing... you should have been more careful. I sure hope you enjoyed your life until now.
This is exactly what has led to the moral decline of the West. You think: well, it's just 50 cents, so I guess stealing isn't all that bad. When this sets in motion the slippery slope, the undefeated champion, up to the point that thefts of up to $950 are tolerated in California.
Churchill once asked a woman if she'd have sex with him for a million pounds. She said yes. Then he asked if she'd do it for 10 pounds. She said, why, do you think I'm a whore? And he said: Ma'am, we've already established what you are, now we're haggling over the price. And this is what you're doing. You have basically stated that it's OK to steal what you regard as small sums, and now you're haggling with California over how much it's OK to steal.
Stealing grapes: yes, people shouldn't be putting their disgusting paws on food to begin with. That's worse than stealing.
Jaywalking isn't a crime anywhere outside of America (that I'm aware of), so that's just uncommon silliness.
Is what happened to this guy draconian? Well, yeah. Was it undeserved? No. Having a functioning society has a price, and I'd rather that people like this pay the price than to have my city turned into Chicago.
No, its not that stealing isn't all that bad, its that there are clear degrees of crime and wrongdoing, you fucking dense buffoon.
The punishment should fit the fucking crime, but then again I'm talking with someone who has no idea that even his history of being a reddit liberal in the past could be used to end him in the future if the pendulum swings back hard enough.
If you think human's life is worth $3.50, I'd ask you what separates you from those niggers who kill each other over $20 in the ghettos. The difference is that you could probably moralize yourself into believing you're somehow better for it because you have a rule you can point to for your bloodlust and sadism, as if you've never done anything wrong in your own life, ever.
Absolutely graceless and completely lacking in self-awareness.
Context, cost and scale are important for determining degrees of punishment.
You're correct that ALL crimes need punishment to deter even simple infractions, but the context of the crime and the scale of the punishment need to be doled out in respect to the cost it has on society when it comes to stability and maintaining cultural consistency.
In short, the context was over something minor (i.e., coffee), the cost of which was also minor (less than $5) while the scale of punishment was more than what was taken, and a potentially greater detriment to the man's life than what crime he had committed.
I've posted this before and I posted it again, more than half the people here who praise Japan wouldn't last five seconds in that society precisely because of what you describe. I've trained with Japanese martial arts instructors, possibly going to see about travelling to Japan sometime to maybe train there as well and holiday a bit depending.
The passive aggressive politeness with them is real. They're totally nice generally and quite forgiving of foreigners don't get me wrong, but their society is very much fuck around and find out and you have to know how to adapt to their society pretty well. People here are too individualistic so they'd immediately start stepping on toes if they hung around Japan long term. That's why there's partly a problem of even the westerners living in expat bubbles and not really adapting.
I totally agree I wouldn't really last living in Japan, and if I visited I would definitely be relying on their kindness and forgiveness. all that being said, I would not ask them to change a thing. From everything I've watched and read, their society is extremely clean and safe.
On a personal level, I think their weapons laws are extreme (historical fencing with steel trainers is more illegal there than owning a machine gun is in the US), their work culture is oppressive, their seniority system elevates people who don't deserve it while belittling people who do, and their complete allergy to rudeness is even more insulting than if they would just speak their mind. But this is all coming from a person who lives in an individualistic society were the murder rate is much higher, drug use is out of control, the streets are filled with litter, walking around at night is begging for a mugging, productivity and ingenuity are being outsourced to foreign countries, and degenerate lifestyles are considered a moral good amongst a significant portion of the population.
While I have a few theories, I don't know exactly what it is that they do that makes their society so much cleaner than ours, but whatever they're doing it's working.
Japan shouldn't change a thing.
Oh yeah, I'm just pointing out the realities, as for our own individualistic society, it's not about individualism itself that's the problem the rule of law has completely broken down into a system of nepotism and you see it day to day. Don't ever let twats like Jon Stewart gaslight about that and claim it's the price of freedom, they're lying. You don't have to have mass migration in a free society.
People getting caught sometimes doing the worse things imaginable and they end up getting executives jobs at corporations or they're simply moved to another part of the country while the heat dies down. Mass migration of course and the blatant discrimination going on against normal citizens has gotten to ridiculous levels and is only going to get worse.
We can still enforce the law without becoming collectivists, it's just about there being any kind of political will behind it. Right now there's nothing, even with the people who claim to care about it the most.
When you lock it down as much as they do, you lose individuality at the sake of making sure degenerates are caged up.
Except Japan is still full of antisocial whack jobs, so idk if there’s a fair balance where you can toss stones at the freaks but also not get smited just for $3 of coffee
I'm honestly not sure what that means. It reminds me of the arguments in the 2000s against school uniforms in the US. Nobody could explain to me how wearing certain clothes a few hours a day was restrictive or what personal individuality was lost. I know they lean more collectivist there but that's cultural not because anything is locked down.
the US had it made at one point. Most of our cities were clean, murder rates were low, drug use was highly stigmatized and therefore underground, our productivity was high, and so was the quality of our exports.
of course, it's not like that now, but it does show that it can be done withoutsacrificing the rights of the individual.
I think most people are aware Japan has it's own share of problems, especially in major cities where the work culture and conformity are at their maximum, but what people find refreshing is that these are an entirely different set of problems from our own.
More and More, Japan's problems seem relatively quaint and managable on the grand scale. There's always a chance that a decade of good governance could right the ship, and deal with the worst of it.
In comparison, people are losing hope that the west can be fixed at all. For many, destruction of western culture seems immanent. I'm not that black pilled, but I can see where they are coming from. In any case, it would probably take more than a decade to resolve the issues we find ourselves mired in.
(Unless this all ends in fire, that can fix issues astonishingly fast. However, that's an even more undesirable solution for most.)
Yep I'd rather have a Japanese lady at 7-11 be fake polite to me than some rude Indian guy trying to overcharge me on an out of date product and then having a group of teens outside the store ask "you wanna get fuckin smashed eh cunt?"
I really miss how the west (or at least NZ where I grew up) used to be 20+ years ago. At that time I'd say it was superior to Japan. But right now it's fucked. Not sure if its salvageable.
You can reverse almost anything except demographic replacement. Which is why they are using demographic replacement.
Not unique to Japan, either. A significant percentage of the western population in Korea lives in Seoul and frequents these same kind of bubbles. I knew Westerners who lived in Korea for years who couldn't read basic Korean, which is sad because it takes about 15 minutes to learn.
But I do think Japan is easy to navigate as a tourist if you pack your humility. I've fucked up numerous times myself, including walking into a hotel lobby with my shoes on. The reaction to that transgression was severe - imagine one of those record-scratch moments in a movie - but was quickly moved past by listening.
This also helped me out quite a bit when my wife's lab brought in a Japanese postdoc. We helped his family navigate US society a bit and we made some lifelong friends out of the deal.
Of all my international friendships, my Japanese friends are the most rock-solid.
we used to have manners (social norms), culture, and a functioning society in the USA too. step out of line and you were kicked out of your community. it worked.
At the very least you got punched in the face and this was everywhere.
All true. Working for a Japanese company would be hell. I doubt I could endure it. Im lucky enough to work remote.
In regards to martial arts. This might not be a common experience but the kendo clubs I train at here are much more relaxed about manners and other formalities than in the western clubs Ive been to. More physically demanding and more skilled, but just sloppy with manners. Not what I had expected. Being a forigner, at first they do offer you a lot of opportunities to be held to a lower standard. Decline those offers.
Its a good way to quickly make real friends. Theres a lot of value in shared suffering.
'Deference to your superior' is a real thing and very interesting to see in action.
God help you if you, say, run a training camp without permission or at the same time as someone else higher ranked than you are. You will get in some hot water and you will be apologizing. In writing.
I've seen this happen. My own sensei won't have class if there's a training camp going on, specifically because of that. There's an arguably valid reason behind said action, mind, but it's fascinating to actually experience it.
It reminds me of that TNG episode where that one planet was going to execute Wil Wheaton because he fell on some of their flowers. LOL.
On one hand, losing your retirement over semi-stealing coffee seems a bit too much, but on the other, if a system ends up making it so that we don't have to deal with the douchebaggery of Wil "The Douche" Wheaton? Eh, maybe it's not all bad.
All i know is that if i wanted to sell second hard mtg cards to stores in japan i needed to give them my identification and address. And this was 20 years ago. I always thought that was a bit insane
i mean... this was maybe a little excessive...
This is what enforces social cohesion though it does have consequences in mass conformity.
I know when everyone was wearing masks, when it was no longer enforced people were so used to wearing them that it took MONTHS to ditch them, anecdotally I heard from some it took the one guy to not wear theirs, then you'd have few looking around seeing they weren't in trouble then the next bravest would take theirs off and begin a chain reaction.
On the flip side though, it does make it a bureaucratic hell hole at times, try opening a bank there to understand what I mean..
It starts with cutting in line. When people are guilted into thinking "No big deal, it only happens once in a while", they are surprised to see the behavior propagate and subsequently ask "Why is everyone cutting in line now? What happened to manners?"
I think arguing for the appropriate punishment makes sense, but the "not a big deal" attitude is how society devolves. People didn't just spontaneously develop customs and norms. Certain pressures existed to create them.
might be more to this story than what they are telling everyone
this seems like a, "he was doing something quite terrible but we don't want it getting out to the public or overseas because it was quite bad and would cause us to lose face", kind of situation. which is common with crime in Japan and other parts of the East.
Hell it happens in the US, like with Cuomo killing hundreds of elderly people and only being removed for sexual harassment.
The equivalent in the USA is a bunch of blacks chimping-out in a McDonard's, trashing the place and damaging the equipment, and none of them are held accountable.
Invited to be a special advisor in the whitehouse or given a spot on msnbc
The retirement pay i feel is a bit too brutal.
It is theft. Of a small amount, sure, but still theft.
A company giving you a Large because they ran out of Small cups, that's a bonus from them. But taking one yourself without permission, is stealing. "But it's 50 cents!" If a person went into a grocer's, and as a morning ritual, stole a KitKat, not because they were starving or broke, but just because they don't feel awake enough without shoplifting a chocolate bar every single morning... It's less than a dollar, but there's still something pretty important going wrong there, that isn't in line with the views of the company or society.
People sometimes get fired if their company finds out they've cheated on their spouse too. I have mixed feelings about it.
Ethnically homogeneous people problems
Japan has insanely strict laws, and in some cases it could be easy to suggest it's very much over the top. However. Japan also does NOT have an issue with prison overcrowding.
As per usual, if it's not strict, overzealous laws that cause prison overcrowding, what is it? And the vast majority here already know that answer, but people not paying attention need to be asked in that way because they instinctively reject uncomfortable truths. They need to stumble upon the answer themselves.