We spoke about typical family shit for 30 minutes, and then he asked me if I'm following the Trump indictments and what I think about it.
I forget my exact phrasing, but I basically told him I think it's a travesty that makes a mockery of our justice system.
He was taken aback and said he thinks it's a great thing and has been a long time coming. He truly believes that Trump tried to take over the government by ignoring the 2020 election results.
I asked what Trump did specifically. He said, "Trump filed a bunch of court cases and lost every single one."
I said that's sort of true but most cases weren't even heard so the evidence couldn't even be presented, but regardless there's nothing illegal about challenging election results through the courts. I then pointed out that Trump left office right on schedule. I also pointed out all the election results that Democrats have claimed (and still are claiming) were fraudulent.
So again I asked, what specifically did Trump do that constitutes trying to take over the government? And why is it a crime for Trump to question election results but not Hillary or that fatass from Georgia?
Crickets on that, so he shifted gears to the classified document case.
I told him that case is a complete joke. Trump didn't do anything that every past president hasn't also done with their documents. I pointed out that Biden had thousands of classified documents in his fucking garage, and he didn't even have the power to declassify, so why aren't your calling for Biden to be prosecuted??
He said that's different. I asked how. He couldn't even muster a pathetic reason and told me he doesn't think it's productive to continued the conversation because we aren't going to agree.
I said you're the one who brought it up and I'm fucking sick of people claiming all these wild things about Trump without being able to back it up and then saying they don't want to talk about it.
I ranted for a good long while lol, stopping every so often to ask him for specifics on this or that (all related to his original claims) and each time he just remained silent, so then I'd start ranting again. I reminded him that Hillary Clinton was caught red-handed using a private email server and she sent and receive classified documents, and that she destroyed evidence and laughed about it.
I said, "You're telling me if Trump were caught using a private server and classified material was involved, you wouldn't want him prosecuted??"
He said "I'm not sure." I said give me a fucking break, you know damn well you'd cheer on his prosecution if that happened. The media would claim he endangered every American and you'd be there nodding along.
At some point, he referenced Russia helping Trump in the 2016 election via Facebook. I asked him to explain what they did. He couldn't. I said why are you going around making claims about something you can't even describe?? Crickets.
I asked if he knew the Steele dossier originated from the Clinton campaign. Crickets.
It went on like this for another 30 minutes or so. He couldn't provide specifics about anything. I kept pressing him. He kept saying this isn't productive. I said yeah no shit because all you can do is regurgitate claims you've heard from biased sources.
I could have handled it better in some ways but I don't regret what I said. I'm so fucking tired of otherwise smart people being completely clueless about important issues that THEY bring up and claim to be knowledgeable about.
That's about it. Not all that interesting but it's slow around here so I thought I'd share.
Anyone else get into it with family members about politics lately?
Trump is a great NPC detector.
And I don't mean "supporting Trump." There are a lot of completely legitimate criticisms of Trump, and even the harshest critics cannot (while being intellectually honest) support the abuse of the legal systems to "Git dRumpf!"
Your family member failed the test. NPC through and through. Whatever the TV tells him is what he believes, honestly and earnestly. On the brightside: you now know you cannot trust his judgement or integrity. This family member will not only be completely unreliable in take up arms alongside you, but the probability is extremely high they will sell you out at the first opportunity that suits him.
Use this newly found knowledge and behave yourself accordingly, OP. You have my condolences.
Honestly reading this was cathartic. I too have experienced the same thing where family members start arguments they refuse to continue as soon as they realize they’re losing. Trump, immigration (legal and otherwise), covid, Ukraine, you name it.
I think that's normal for many. There's not much point in arguing with most normies IRL. They're usually too willfully retarded to be worth the time and effort. Even more-so on topics that become more about ideology than basic logic and details.
I try not to even mention him because I have no idea who is or isn't going to be a doxxing lunatic trying to get me fired for not hating cheeto man.
At this point, I just tell people, "Trump was the worst president of my lifetime, except for all of the others. I think he did mostly good things and was stymied by a uniparty system run by corrupt midwits that did everything it could to stonewall him. If I'd been in his position, I would probably have done some things differently but ultimately I don't have that much disagreement with him policy-wise."
"And if that means I'm an evil person in your eyes, I could not possibly care less."
I gave a less harsh version of this talk to my mom after the January 6th "attack" because she was pretty upset about it. "How could it possibly be some sort of 'insurrection' if nobody brought weapons and everybody left when they were asked?" Now she's at the point where she just assumes it's all a bunch of nonsense.
I tell people I'm not a fan of Trump because he isn't right-wing enough for me.
If I'm looking to just piss someone off instead of have an actual discussion, I just tell them, "I wish Trump were half as bad as you accuse him of being." Or, "Donald Trump is exactly what people like you deserved."
I just wish Trump were half as effective as the loons accuse him of being. Some minor good notes, some minor bad notes, but they seem to think the world shuddered with every step he took.
A.k.a.: Words are magic spells.
"But the prophets had used words, and their more dangerous byproducts, beliefs, to trick us all before" - Vorro Nar 'Mantakree
Another good one is, "Hillary Clinton convinced me that I should stop voting straight Democrat."
I try to avoid talking about politics with my family because they're all leftist commies and I think commies should be thrown from helicopters.
Yeah when I talk about being prepared for SHTF, and certain family tell me I'm dumb, I tell them I'm not helping out when the time comes. If their dumbasses refuse to prepare themselves.
Based.
Used to, my mother is a HORRIBLE judge of character when it comes to politics, she also used to despise Trump when he was in office (despite other country) and she'd shut down after trying to rant at anything he did since I'd be like a wall pointing out how 90% of the time it was bullshit.
Fast forward to post lockdowns and years of Biden, she flipped where she still can't stand him personally but admits it was better with him in charge. I've also been put in charge of voting since I'm actually a good judge of character (my gaydar is ruined though, I can't tell fag and soy apart.)
There is functionally zero difference. Both of them are forms of degeneracy, and both of them support authoritarian ideologies.
If you don't know the difference between igneous and metamorphic, you still know they're both rocks.
I'm seeing way too many people crawling out of the wood-work nowadays(or maybe it's just selection bias) who try to claim some variant of 'Muh Courts' or make an excuse about how 'Well, the Courts said they're guilty' to try and prove something.
Not just on Trump, either.
It's just appeal to authority fallacy by any other name.
Gentlemen, if there's one thing I can advise you - never, ever make casual talk with a lawyer. You will loose faith in the justice system so fast it will make your head spin. You will go full on doomer blackpill.
This is red flag to stay away and disassociate with this subhuman. Bitch wanted you to blindly grovel to him saying you agree with him or give him pity points on his circle jerk Twitter/Preddit group by being mean to him. In either instance, he got what he wanted. If he asks again, just smile and say “Still voting Trump” even if your not. No other words, just that. Making him mad at you is the only way to win.
I refuse to talk politics with people in my life who I know it will accomplish nothing to talk about. So instead I hit them with the grenade of:
Over and over if they try. Which is something that only makes them angrier, but it also denies them any pleasure from the discussion by completely ceasing to engage. Eventually they stop and then don't talk about it at all.
But on some occasions their curiosity will get the better of them and they will attempt other more bowed head approaches to get me to open up. Which go far better and calmer heads often prevail enough that either we end the discussion peacefully, or they even come around to some of smidgens of my perspective. Nothing miracle working, but "yeah that is kinda fucked up ain't it?"
Which is often the best you could hope for and the smallest step on maybe pulling someone out.
You know how birds can fly together in a flock all somehow seemingly coordinated? People are just like that with their opinions. They look left and right and see what most other people are doing, then they follow the herd because for basically forever until 5 seconds ago, being expelled from "your group" was a immediate death sentence. It takes a very strange person who is willing to diverge from the direction of the herd. Honestly you shouldn't expect most people to even be able of doing so because regardless of the intellectual or factual arguments you can put forward, their instincts won't allow them to do so. Republicans included. Just try discussing the downsides of the Civil Rights Act with a dyed in the wool patriot and tell me how that goes.
If I was pressed I would try to say the most confusing things (to them) possible. Like if we're talking elections, I would say that literally every election I've personally lived through is always and immediately followed by claims of cheating and stealing, from both sides. It's to the point where if you don't try to cheat and steal, are you even really trying? I would attack Republicans and Trump for being losers who didn't do what it takes, and praise the Democrats for having the balls to seize power and override the will of the people. I would look down at either side for being naive if they are not pushing to the letter of the law and even going beyond occasionally when they think they can get away with it. People literally cheat in completely meaningless activities like Monopoly or Counter-Strike, what sort of fucking imbecile would think that there isn't foul play in elections?
Seems like your relative still thinks it's spectacle politics as usual with two teams scoring points and as long as his favorite sports ball team scores he's happy regardless of how much the world around him has gone to shit
The saddest part about NPCs is that even after such a thorough deconstruction of their retardation, the odds that he went back to the mental drawing board and rethought things are slim.
I have gotten into it with family and friends over politics in the past, but I try hard to avoid it nowadays because I realized no matter how thoroughly I demonstrate that they're full of shit, their views are a religion to them and they will never change until they are forced by something much more real to them than my words.
I still applaud you for it though. Like I said, the odds he changed his mind are slim but they aren't zero.
I completely agree.
We might like to think they'd go, "Hmm, I guess it is a bit odd that Biden's classified documents are treated so differently than Trump, especially because Biden didn't have declass power", but that just doesn't happen. Like you said it's a religion to them.
This post actually made me feel kind of good. Why? Because someone finally did something for once and stood up for the truth for once.
So often I come across so many people who just either stay silent or encourage others to stay silent, but your boldness is at least somewhat encouraging, especially amidst so many who willingly roll over just to avoid confrontations.
Confrontations are needed -- because they will happen regardless. Only, the sooner they happen the sooner solutions can be found. The later they happen, the more combustible the outcome.
Pre Covid I would have stayed silent to keep the peace, but also because I know it would fall on deaf ears and I don't see this person very often so why bother.
But with all the fucked up things that are happening now (tranny shit in schools, blatant anti white discrimination, etc) I just can't do it anymore. They need to know how retarded they are.
If they want to cut off contact over it, so be it.
Right on! Well said.
It really is like sports teams to most of these people. "I'm a Dodgers fan, my dad was a Dodgers fan, my grandpa was a Dodgers fan." Similar to sports, they have an illogical emotional connection to their team. If a star player rapes someone, it doesn't matter because he is on their team.
It doesn't make sense for sports either, no reason to be emotionally attached to who wins or loses unless you bet big money on it, yet grown men cry over games they didn't play in or bet on.
I have been slowly redpilling my normie family over the past decade or so. Big gains were made when I told them about Epstein's island years before his arrest, and when I told them about covid before it hit the US, and then about the lab leak when it was still a "conspiracy theory". I warned my sister about gender weirdos before she encountered them. I tell them shit that sounds insane, but I always have the facts and reasoning to back it up and I try not to dump too much on them at once.
They have actually remarked that it's disturbing how many things I've been right about, but it's unusual for someone to straight up admit this. The more common success is when we're having a conversation, they give me their opinion or a little bit of reasoning and it's actually my own ideas that I gave them a few weeks ago. They don't remember where they got it from, but I do, and I never point it out, I just smile and agree. You don't ever want to "defeat" your family in an argument. You just give a little bit of push back, drop some reasoning then let it take hold slowly.
Yeah that definitely seems like the best approach for family, but I don't talk to this person often enough for a drip approach.
It's hard for me to care about politics, I can't even talk about my views with people because their programming shuts them down for good.
That sounded entertaining, but unproductive. You have to say his thoughts before he says them and point out that you know what he thinks because he's been programmed. And you know what that programming is.
This ''wasen't productive'' in validating what CNN told him. Stop talking about it, then. LoL.
I beat them down with facts until my gf says to stop. I mean they're her family; maybe I shouldn't beat them up lol
Not even a minute in my family has a blow up if I mention anything like this. We don't talk much anymore.
Maybe that'll teach him not to open his bitch mouth.
Would you be interested in buying a bridge?
It works on these types. They're used to everyone agreeing with them and celebrating their virtue for parroting the approved narrative. When someone opposes them strongly, it makes them very uncomfortable. They don't want that to happen again so they'll be more careful about casually talking about their nonsense. It's not going to convince them they're wrong but it will make them less confident to speak. That's a win.
I definitely didn't expect to change his mind and usually I wouldn't bother, but I just couldn't help myself this time.
The catharsis of exploding at someone you know is categorically wrong is too good to pass up. It can't be done all the time, but it's better to let off the steam now and again just to keep yourself sane.
In 2015, I’d disagree as blowing up on humans feels good short term but bad for long term relationships. Now, you can’t even consider these MSM sponges as human. Sheep even have the decency to scream when they are attacked.
They aren't human, at least not philosophically. They are a bag of conditioned responses to external stimuli. They cannot think, therefore they are not.
*Holds up
chickensheep*Behold! A man!
Hard feelings may just be the psychological pressure they need to snap out of it, pain is an excellent teacher. I've demoted many of my closest friends to distant acquaintances over the past three years when it became apparent they were bootlicking commies. Some quietly, some openly. Making it easy for them is not my responsibility, they deserve to suffer and learn the hard way.
If they are truly NPCs to that level you're doing yourself a solid. They are the kind to sell you out to the Man for goodboi points
These conversations need to be had. These are not friends worth keeping and by not having these hard conversation we have let the Overton window shift so far to the left that we hardly know how to argue our case anymore.
You can't change their mind, but can you make them to empathize with yours?
"You know, the most important thing to me is free speech, so which party should I vote for? The one that censored the President and made social media censor people?"
"It's important to me that we don't destroy history even when it's not things we'd do these days, and it seems to me liberals are committed to destroying statues and rewriting books"
And so on. They'll pretend to themselves that "orange man bad" is more important than any of those things, or censorship is okay as long as they do it, but they can't convince themselves that you don't care about those things when you say you do.
Over time they may say to themselves that, you know what, they also value free speech, self-defense, equal opportunity, equal enforcement of laws, trustworthy elections, and such as.