Warner Bros. Delays 'Dune: Part Two' to 2024 in Hope of Hollywood Strikes Ending Before Press Tour
Warner Bros. announced Thursday that Dune: Part Two would be postponed until 2024. The official social media account now lists the release date as March 15. | Entertainment
I was looking forward to Dune part 2, until I realized what they did in the casting. The Fremen are all arabic and black. The evil Harkonnen and Sardaukar are White. The Harkonnen are literally albino White. The messaging couldn't be more clear. White people bad, non-whites are oppressed and good. To make it even more blunt, Paul is being played by a jewish actor, who bravely leads the non-whites against the evil Whites. This is probably why they won't (faithfully) adapt the subsequent Dune books, because it turns the first book on its head.
Even though Villeneuve claims to be a big fan of the books, he's said in recent interviews (if I remember correctly) that the female characters aren't focused on enough, and aren't strong enough as female characters, so he's going to change the story. Anyone that's read the Dune books knows that's a profound lie. The women are some of the strongest characters in the lore. The Bene Gesserit are literally immortal, if they choose, by manipulating their body chemistry, but don't for fear of being found out by the Imperium until their plan comes to fruition, and are some of the best fighters in the Imperium. Villenuive said he wants to focus on the female characters more and give them more material, which is just going to create the extremely grating modern feminist girl boss trope, in a story that doesn't need it. It's explicitly said in the first Dune book that the female Fremen fighters are extremely capable fighters, and fight with their men.
Should've seen this coming from what they did in Part 1. They race and gender swapped Liet Kynes. He was supposed to be able to blend in with both the Imperium royal houses and the Fremen. He's described as having "long sandy hair". His father was Imperial but his mother was Fremen. Black people don't have hair like that. Kynes was also supposed to be a stand in for Frank Herbert, a White man. Also, even though it's not explicitly mentioned in the books, Paul and Chani bond over the fact that both of their fathers were murdered by the Harkonnen and the Emperor. There was a lot left unsaid in the Dune books by Herbert, who left clues for his audience, enabling them to fill in the gaps, especially with regard to character motivations.
At most, the entire Dune saga revolving around spice is an allegory for oil and the Middle East, which would make the Fremen Arabic and the Imperium White, if taken at face value. However, the Fremen aren't native to Arrakis. Through thousands of years of immigration, they finally ended up there. I don't recall Fremen ever being explicitly defined in terms of race in the books. Skin color is mentioned sparsely, but only for a few key characters. There were some suggestions in the books of racial differences along planetary lines, and that there are differences between Fremen and the Imperium, but it's left just vague enough to allow other interpretations.
In any case, at the minimum, the race and gender swap of Liet Kynes was an insult to the author himself. At most, it's an insult to the author's work, characters, intentions, and story, perverting it to insert messages Herbert never intended or wanted. Nowhere in the books does Herbert chastise the evil White people and venerate the oppressed POCs, nor would it be smart. Herbert was quite intelligent, and any scifi author knows you make your allegories vague, so they have wider appeal and applicability.
The change in part 1 was a clear indication of what their priorities/subversions were, which is being dialed up in Part 2. It's annoying, because Dune would be a fantastic IP to (properly) adapt, but not in modern Hollywood. I guess I'll have to stick to the SciFi miniseries and the books.
To be fair, there are some factors that go against your narrative as well. Timothée Chalamet’s mother is Russian Jewish and Austrian Jewish, and his father is non-Jewish French. House Atreides from Caladan (Caledonia, i.e. Scotland), the obvious good-guy faction, is also white. And if anything, making the poor desert people look like the stereotypical Middle Easterners and having the faction of white saviors empower and recruit them should be more offensive to the opposing side than not.
jews are matrilineal, if his mother is Jewish then he's Jewish
But he's only half jewish!!!
Fucking thank you.
Herbert is good because he plays around with alot of things in his books, and the one thing he doesn't mind indulging in basically amounts to the conflict between gender.
The Padishah Emperor is the most powerful man in the universe. A god in all but name, whom commands all of humanity, whom calls the Guild and the Landsraad to heel, who orchestrates the downfall of those whom oppose him without care for the repercussions -
Yet the moment he requests a male child from his Bene Gesserit witch, the basic reply is 'Lol no get fucked. We'll whore your daughter out to whom we wish to secure our genetic plan for humanity'.
Yeah. You think someone in that sort of situation is going to send a woman as his Hand and Word on Arrakis? Fuck no.
(Also he should be a thirty-something looking redhead but none of the movies ever do that, heh.)
Conversely, Dune is also a story about how love can move the universe, because when Leto asked for a son from his Bene Gesserit witch, his wife in all but name, she basically went all in and gave him what he wanted - threw away thousand years of breeding, all for love.
But Villenuive supposedly has a deep understanding of the setting. Yeah. Sure.
Fun fact - we get an off-hand mention of how the Saurdukar and the Fremen were both taken from the same location before being resettled on their respective planets. So... yeah.
I don't recall that being said about Shaddam IV. Do you have a reference for it?
I do, actually!
(This is the part I love about Dune - Frank Herbert includes all these small little details just as offhand mentions that are kind of a big deal.)
I'm copying from an ebook, so excuse any whonky formatting.
His youth;
Maybe not thirty something, but still young-looking enough to be Leto's equivalent.
Red hair;
And again;
So, yeah. None of the movie's really got him right.
I remember most of those passages now. Been a bit since I read the first book.
Thank you.
I’ve read the first book. Should I read all the books? I still haven’t seen the sci-fi series. Just the 84 movie. I didn’t know he said all that. Race swaps serve as a red flag at least. I did hear in his defense he was forced to race swap but I didn’t know he said that about focusing on females. Didn’t know about the Fremen casting.
Read all the books by Frank. The later material by his son, Brian, and Kevin J Anderson are often considered to be little more than a cash grab and exploiting Frank's successes.
Ok. I have the next 2 in the series but haven’t read them yet
I would skip Dune Messiah. You won't miss anything you can't get from a wiki, and the book is difficult and slow and does not stand on its own.
But if you like Herbert there is a limited amount of material.
Thanks! I’ve heard that a lot so I’ll take that advice
Chapterhouse is actually favorite. Yes, dirty old man Herbert, but the interest is way beyond the futa BS
The SciFi miniseries is good. The CGI is obviously dated, but can be ignored because the rest of it is good. To be more efficient with their money, they also used massive painted/printed back drops, which give it an almost stage play like feel. They lean into this by using vibrant colors to highlight characters in specific shots. It might bother some, but I find it endearing.
It does change some aspects of the story, but they're relatively minor compared to what modern Hollywood does. The length even enabled them to add scenes, to expand some characters, like princess Irulan. Whether you agree with the changes or not, the changes are made to try and improve it, and not subvert the audience.
The first book is broken down into 3 parts in the Dune miniseries, which works really well, and doesn't condense the story drastically, or leaving a lot out like the 1984 movie, and even part 1 of the recent movie did. The "Children of Dune" miniseries is also good, and combines the 2nd and 3rd books together, but I like the first miniseries more.
I've only read up to Children of Dune. I'd like to read them all, but I prefer to buy the older hard cover books, which are ridiculously over inflated in price at the moment.
As for my impression, the first 3 books are well worth a read. A relatively minor, if largely impacting spoiler, but the first book is turned on its head. Herbert wanted to warn about messianic savior figures in the Dune saga, like Paul Muad'dib Atreides in the first book. The first book can be appreciated by itself as a classic hero's journey and revenge tail set in a great scifi universe. The Dune saga, however, explores the consequences of that, and of messianic figures in general.
To be vague, and yet clear enough to make the point, Paul's actions lead to horrific atrocities. Paul sees a far flung future problem which he sees no way to avoid, or chooses not to follow the path to avoid it. His children do, however, which affects all the subsequent books, which go much further in time than one would normally expect, and from what I've heard, get rather weird. I've also heard that Herbert intended to write one or two more books, but he knew his time was short (health problems), and wrote fairly strange final chapter, with himself and his wife inserted into the story, as ordinary yet godlike figures looking down upon the galactic story Herbert was telling, but it's really just a thinly veiled final address to his readers and fans, to thank them.
It's obvious, even in book 1, especially in Paul's spice visions, how esoteric Herbert can be. He also makes philosophical commentary throughout subsequent books, which you may or may not like. I appreciate what he's saying, but as I'm inclined that way, I noticed that he contradicts himself in some areas (philosophically), which I venture most people would miss. In any case, it doesn't affect much, because Herbert is very good at his world building, even if it's a bit unique compared to other authors, and the messages he's conveying are genuine. Some chapters/sections get quite abstract and cerebral, which can be tough to read, but overall I definitely recommend the books.
Nope, but then I haven't seen part 1, don't intend to, actually liked 2000 Dune and 2003 Children of Dune adaptations, and won't lose sleep over the strike continuing.
Why?
A lot of modern media is trash, the ones writing and producing said media are frequently paid too much for said trash - which they will use as a soapbox to air their own views on various topics instead of writing anything meaningful, and there is never any consequences for the writing of, or production of said trash while many far more popular titles get cancelled because of a lack of "message", instead actually attempting to tell a good story and not retell something for the third, fourth, fifth, or sixth time and harping on about casting decisions more.
If by 'a lot', you mean 'all', then I agree.
I dislike 100% absolutes as they are far too easy to disprove, something I point out to Imp when he makes them although he evidently doesn't learn anything there since he keeps on doing it and will probably do so again in a couple of days when his 48 day ban expires 🙄
On topic, while there can be the rare 0.1% show that isn't trash I am these days mostly watching things which are 20 years old or more as the selection of non woke stuff is significant. Recently started watching the 90s X-Men cartoon from the start as I never actually watched it from start to finish back when I saw it originally on TV and I'm sure there are still episodes I missed. Also planning to watch X-Men Evolution after as I enjoyed that one even more than the 90s version if simply because the animation was a lot better.
My rule of thumb is 2014 or prior but 20 years sounds good
Watch Legion
Legion starts good but goes woke several times such as when Syd starts spouting off about how "men are afraid of getting laughed at, women are afraid of getting murdered" to David. The guy is literally just trying to live his life away from all of the shit that has happened to him at this point and those who have caused it but continues to get harassed by people he thought were his friends who are now working with the very guy who has been abusing David and literally living off him like a parasite since he was born.
Season 2 only happens because future Syd is dumb enough to believe Farouk of all people and similarly the events that lead to season 3 only happen because Melanie is equally dumb enough to also listen to Farouk.
There is also Syd's history where she used her body swapping power to sleep with her mother's date/boyfriend and then acted like she was the victim afterwards, on top of not understanding why the date turned "her" around during sex in the shower 🙄.
Even better is the way the show en's as that all still happens because the whole time travel plan of the third season only changes David's early life and he didn't meet Sid until several decades had passed so all the shit Syd does will still happen in the new timeline.
Then you have girl boss Kerry, gay interogator Debussy, and whatever Ptonomy was meant to be because that character ends up getting dropped hard.
Apart from the rap battle in season 3 the few feel good moments of the show come from the catharsis of seeing David just cutting loose and turning various characters who have attempted to kill him into modern art, something we get to enjoy multiple times due to time travel being involved.
Basically everything you say, I agreed with upon my initial viewing (especially the later S2/3 “development” of Syd) but after rewatching the whole show I’ve come to largely think differently. I now regard it as probably the best show I’ve ever seen.
With regards to Syd, I think the issues you point out are addressed in Season 3’s “Syd episode”, Chapter 25. It was never her mother’s boyfriends “fault”, just like it wasn’t the “fault” of the girls who she beats when she takes over the young lad’s body. Her whole “I don’t need no man” shtick is a direct result of her upbringing by her “artist” single mother. Syd entirely lacked “coping mechanisms” for her alienation / unapproachability leading her to become the character we see over the show. I think the massive “shift” in her character we see after Chapter 25 drives this home. She goes from seeing David as an ebil r*pist to the hurt child he really was. Without her experience of a real, loving, and understanding family in the astral plane, the whole shitshow was bound to repeat itself with the same tragedies every step of the way. But thanks to her change, David has a chance himself. Perhaps even a school for people like them will be built this time.
Edit: I think the point of the show is second chances. Everyone needs one, even those variably seen as “villains” (peasants).
2010?
No, the series, 2017-2019
I think a lot of audiences are simply praising this because they are told to. "It's the Blade Runner 2049 director, clap peasants!" sort of thing. While BR2049 was OK, it was still yet another nostalgia piece heavily relying on the originals 80s movie. Hm, kind of the same deal with Dune 🙃
I wonder what his next big piece will be 🤔 Considering Blade Runner came out in 1982 and Dune in 1984 that means it will be something from 1986. That means one of Big Trouble in Little China ⚡, Flight of the Navigator 👽, Highlander 🗡️, Labyrinth 👨🎤, or Short Circuit 🤖
Wildcard option: Little Shop of Horrors 🥀
Those faggots wouldn't dare
I care deeply about the Hollywood Strike.
It will cause Hollywood to nearly kill itself and there can be no greater victory.
Yes. Wants me to make the strike last longer so we don’t get this race-baiting shot anymore.
Nah, if it's delayed, fine. I just want to know if it'll be a fantastic sequel like Empire Strikes back, Back to the future 2 or The Two Towers or something shitty like The Last Jedi.
Trilogies can only go three ways: greatness, mediocrity or scorn and the second film is a BIG indicator of that direction. Put it this way, a really bad second film can kill future installments like Pacific Rim 2.
Pacific Rim 2 had a lot of problems going for it, in particular the director/writer and producers.
The director/writer:
The producers:
Of those seven the last three were more to do with financing the film, del Toro's name speaks for itself, Mary Parent and Cale Boyter were also producers for the newest Dune adaptation, leaving John Boyega.
Easier to just quote an earlier post I made about this,
One of the worst things about Pacific Rim is that it may be the closest we get to a live action Neon Genesis Evangelion and as it managed to kill itself with Uprising even that hasn't gone very well.
That's probably a blessing, the Rebuild of Evangelion films satisfied everyone enough we don't need live action to ruin it, still have the ending song on my playlists because it was perfect to end the series.
There is also the advantage animation has over live action where it can completely suspend reality as well as explore concepts that are otherwise difficult to do well.
Pretty much, Time travel is one of those concepts that has flopped so many times in Hollywood and live action
Animated? Steins Gate, Re Zero, the entire tag of manga/manwha where you reawaken in the past.
It's a lot easier to do hard concepts and stories when it's animated because of the barrier to reality.
If people were satisfied with those I really have to question how low their barometer for quality and taste was, or if they even liked the original to begin with.
All I got from them was Anno hated what made him famous, and you for liking it (which we already knew), and he just wanted to milk it dry before burying it.
Going from memory, the problem is the original series didn't have funds to properly do it, it's why you had some scenes drawn out over the same background with only the audio changing and then led to the ending.
The end of Evangelion was made after a large amount of hate mail sent to the studio and him personally for the ending of the series and was a bitter response to all of that hate.
The Rebuild series of films actually worked when you pay attention to the titles of the films themselves. The fact that the 4th film isn't called 4 (because it's an unlucky number) and instead incorporated 1 and 3's titles (you cannot redo but you're not alone) and the additional character that actually represents his wife is good since the entire series is an allegory for depression.
The reason that thrice upon a time got a great response was because it felt like a proper conclusion and for depressed people (majority of Evangelion fans) a good message, you can't undo past actions but you're not alone so talk to someone about it. The series has been about not being trapped in fantasy and embracing reality which is actually the most anti left message you can think of so he's at least not woke.
That is the truth, and was the entire reason we were sold on the idea of Rebuild originally. It was supposed to be cleaning up the original from the rough diamond it was into a properly funded and shown piece. Few original fans signed up for his "everything you liked about the original was wrong, and here I am showing it the correct way" remake. That idea of "everyone who supported me and gave me a career and money is terrible" leads into your next point well:
The ending to the TV series was a near nonsensical mess that had little to help make sense of it. In context with the movie it actually does make a lot of sense and works so well that it is nearly impossible the movie wasn't already part of the lore (and he just couldn't afford to make it). It basically is 40 minutes cut out of the center of the movie, with the necessary lead up to that missing so it seems completely random.
Jap fans being hateful shits is nothing new or unique to him, they do that to most any creator who does wild shit. It only seems horrible to us because its not as common here. Japs regularly bankrupt companies and end celebrities careers for minor slights like "has a boyfriend" or "released a game I didn't like."
They work fine on their own as generic mecha. Its not that they are outright bad on their own, only in relation to what they were supposed to be and the work they were adapting.
That was my point though as mentioned above. He sold it to everyone as "we finally got the budget so we are remastering it as it was always supposed to be and better!" Which is much of what the first movie is even. Then he decided to start changing things wildly, including some outright made to spit in the face of people who liked how it worked in the original. Including his Wife as a major original character slotted in to replace Asuka, someone the fans he hates love.
In simpler terms. Its a guy who hates the original work adapting it and trying to supplant it and shit on what it stood for. Just because its the original creator doesn't make it less offensive in that regard than The Last Jedi or Starship Troopers (and it doesn't have the ironic funny of that one).
A live action Neon Genesis Evangelion shouldn't be made by Hollywoke.
It's not a trilogy. While the maker has expressed interest in a third film covering the second book, his adaptation of Dune was always a two-parter. It's not really even a sequel, just a continuation.
Guess I was mistaken, swear I heard somewhere it'd be spilt into 3 films because of run time.
I fucking hate how their turned the Bene Gesserit into fucking female Jedi ninjas.
Literally nothing could make me care about the Hollywood strike.
As long as my heckin Dune 2 funko pops arrive on time.
I've had them preordered since 2017! The holographic, flocked, genital-swappable limited editions.
What strike?
Why would I care about the Hollywood strike at all?
No really. What's my incentive?
Strike harder, Hollywood writers! Don't go back to work until they pledge to no longer use computers in any element of filmmaking!
Post Reported for: Rule 11 - Spam
Post Approved: No.
Multiple of my posts reported in a short sequence of time?! That aren't even mildly contentious posts?! I have a hater! Oh yay! I did it boiz!
I hadn't noticed, honestly.
I hope the strike continues until major studios start collapsing and going out of business.
Was expecting to see it in November/December, despite the race-swapping, but mostly to use my 'buy 1, get 1 free' movie tickets for one of the better movie theaters (and alternative movies not being worth the time to go out to the theater for).
But the tickets will still be usable next year and the race-swapping always creates this unconscious hurdle you need to consciously jump over in order to watch something you'd actually have to make an effort for.
Pls no bully, I once watched it on a plane, and I found it interesting that half the Fremen are full, proper black, while the others are brown-skinned as you'd expect from desert Bedouins.
Apparently, the other Fremen are racist against the black ones, because they don't interbreed.
Also, I'd say it's not race-swapped, but blackwashed.
I also liked the first. I'm looking forward to watching the new one.
Fuck Hollywood, I hope the strike causes all the studios to go bankrupt.
No, despite me liking the first movie. Pushing dates back for political or financial reasons just makes me feel defiant. That kind of thing doesn't work on me and I doubt it works on a lot of other posters here.
Not really. I enjoyed Part One, and am looking forward to this one, but I don't really give a damn about all that drama. Let Hollyweird suffer. No skin off my back.
Didn't really care for the first one. Would watch this one because I'll watch anything fantasy or sci-fi that isn't just a showcase for insufferably smug women, but would pirate, not pay.
I saw the first movie and liked it. I don't know, maybe my standards have dropped, but it was fun. Very very few movies I even try to watch these days, it was a nice surprise.
Yeah, it had a 'slow cinema' atmospheric experience, with a shitty abrupt ending.