A few days ago, we had a thread about games that released in 2004, and I made a comment that ended with "old shit is better." And then I started thinking about it... old things are better.
Case in point: vehicles. I needed a truck for the family farm, and I went shopping. Quickly I realized that 1) newer 3/4 ton diesels are designed to fail as a revenue stream and 2) buying a $80,000 truck that will probably need at least one, maybe two $5,000 service visits before it hits six digit mileage wasn't in the cards. So I bought a 20 year old truck... that every mechanic who has seen it has tried to buy. Total cost was less than a Tabroma with the same mileage.
This continues on to just about everything. My house was built before I was born, and has the original air conditioner, stove and hot water heater. The original fridge died a few years ago, and the washer and dryer finally shuffled off this mortal coil last year. I doubt, seriously, that any of the replacement appliances lasts a decade, much less two or three.
Printers? Unless it's Japanese, don't buy a new one. HP will remote control your printer, if you opt in to the program (which they don't make clear what it is), and Xerox is a crapshoot if it works out of the box. Meanwhile, I have seen cheap Brother lasers go to half a million pages easily.
Tractors? Buy a new John Deere, and if it breaks, you either have Deere's mechanic fix it, or it stays broken. (Keep making your payments, please.) Meanwhile, you can buy an older Deere or Yanmar tractor and keep it going forever.
The modern world is starting to give me serious 40k vibes. Almost nobody knows how things work, new things are bad knockoffs, and there are mutants everywhere.
The real thing is that a greater portion of the offerings were good, not that everything was good.
Every society built on lies, by logic, is going to be inferior to another society that was built on truth.
Technology does not escape from this, in fact, it is a clear reflection of it, as you have well noted.
Ah so City of Ember.
I bought a 94 Toyota Camry from a college student in 1998 for 750 Canadian.
I figured it would last a few years and I'd get something else.
It's still going.
I had a 95 Camry I sold for a profit in... 2018? This is after 150k miles and a tree limb through both windshields thanks to a hurricane.
Those old late 80s and early 90s econoboxes just didn't wanna die huh?
I'd say anything from like '87 to '97 just refuses to die if you take moderately okay care of them.
Leftists will blame Capitalism for this, as if shit-tier quality isn't a cornerstone of every commie nation on the planet both past and present.
Yeah, planned obsolescence is fucking evil, but it's not unique to Capitalism. Then again, disposability was fucking lauded by urbanite trash, and they can't stand the idea of anyone being as independent as possible by being able to fix or repair their own property. Urbanites are the reason for most of societies problems. And the sad thing is, it never just effects urbanites.
eye begins twitching Oh, Lord, the suburbanites and their MUH KEEPIN UP WIT TEH JONESES bullshit. I live in the house I grew up in, with the original carpet, floors, kitchen, cabinets, everything. My brother lives in a 4,000 square foot McMansion in a gated community, remodeling a room every year, and complains continuously about houses being expensive.
Planned obsolescence was devised by companies run by people whose dads were all friends with Allen Dulles. Apple for example, the first company to introduce it to electronics. Steve Jobs(Jafari) and his dad were thick as thieves with the CIA.
Old things are "better" because all the stuff that wasn't good has basically been forgotten or abandoned. That said, the reason a lot of newer stuff fails is because of all the extra electronics shit added to comply with some emissions regulation.
Also, never buy Samsung appliances.
Go listen to music that wasn't a big hit or simply a flash in the pan.
It's just as garbage as the stuff now, just without the digital music making
Ironically my Samsung 50 inch flatscreen has been trucking since 2008.
Their TVs and phones are fine. Their appliances are a nightmare.
If you want an improvised hand grenade, then sure, Samsung phones are "fine".
Trying to get an genuine OEM part from Samsung is a complete fucking nightmare. Ended up getting jerked around by several companies before just settling on harvesting the oven door panel from another stove that was close enough.
It's not just old american made stuff. My wife's granddad passed away last year. At the bottom of one of his tool boxes, buried under a pile of rusty tools, was a pair of needle nose pliers that have "Made in West Germany" stamped on the side. They have a tiny bit of rust on the very tips where it looks like he might have ground them for a sharper point but other than that they look just about pristine. The handles are dipped and that is even fine. I've found old stuff that wasnt rusted before but I've never known any sort of plastidip stand up for years.
Better start learning prayers to the Omnissiah if you want your machines to run for years to come.
Brother, I burn incense when I work on blessed relics.
Fair point. I’d say 1912 with the death of Queen Victoria.
$80,000 USD for a new truck…??
Sorry to only focus on that, but holy shit…
That is like… That’s beyond obscene. What is it, a fucking Cybertruck..??
We patently refuse to call utilities “trucks” in Australia, though you can buy American pickups, now. But $80K??!
That’s… I’ve never heard of one costing that much here. Ever. What features could it possibly have to warrant that price tag, even in current year..??
Multifaceted:
That's for a semi-basic diesel F-250, cloth seats, no engine options, 2 wheel drive. You can buy a regular cab for $73k... if you can find one. Tundra is about the same price for a crew cab 2WD. Crew cab FX4 F-350 with leather seats is six figures, six months lead time for delivery.
You see, trucks are now marketed here as the ultimate MAN ACCESSORIES. Most end up being used like the utes you Aussies have, but more expensive.
Ok, looked it up - you can buy those models in Australia, but they’re like… They go up to $200K ($53K base model, average is ~$100K)…
No fucking wonder these never took off here, my god…
That’s just fucking obscene. It really is…
"Conspicuous Consumption" is the phrase.
This is insane to me. Those prices are insane…
Mind. Blown.
I mean, you’re right about the “Man Accessories” thing, but even then…
The only people here paying that price for a car are buying Teslas and luxury German cars and the like…
I actually don’t think I’ve even heard of trucks being that expensive (here) - wow…
They do sell the F350 here, but I really, really don’t think the model on offer is that price…
That’s just… Nuts. Like absolutely wild.
If I had that capital, I would just be going for a house deposit, and/or paying off my (hypothetical) mortgage, lol…
Not paying for a bloody truck!
Something like 80% of new vehicles sold in the US are trucks or SUVs too. Both of which are in the 75k range. I see more trucks now than sedans on the road. Normies will by whatever is marketed to them.
How can I own the libs without a 100k truck though?
Truck prices have gone absolutely bonkers since the Covid clownery. I bought a brand new F-150 in 2013 for just over $30k. Not anywhere close to a top spec truck, but it was a nice 4x2 with a V8, crew cab, a few options but not luxury either. Totally fine truck overall it went on a ton of trips full of people, etc. Would have been perfectly serviceable as a farm truck around here if you don't need heavy towing. I just looked at the local dealer websites and a similar spec truck is listed with their discounts at $51k. Only thing I can pick out mine didn't have is a big ass touchscreen that I wouldn't even want. $20k price increase in ten years.
Modern vehicles piss me off. You can't find a stripped down version of a modern car. It has to have all the bells and whistles. Camera for backing up, sensors for the tires, sensors for the seat belt, built in GPS, built in computer that requires specialized equipment to fix, etc. My dad and mom bought new Ford Explorers and F150s and had to take them into the dealership to get repeatedly fixed within the first couple months. I have come to the conclusion I will never buy an American vehicle again, sadly enough.
Do not buy a new high efficiency washing machine if you can in any way avoid it. Bought one new in 2016 and it died in 2021. Buy used/learn to repair what you can and keep that 30 year old ge chugging as long as you can.
My cousin bought a house around 2015. His wife is a big conspicuous consumer so they immediately replaced all the appliances with shiny new ones. Since then he has gone through two dryers and, in a moment of clarity, had the refrigerator repaired once instead of buying new, only to replace it after it failed a second time. He doesn't see it as an issue.
This is insane to me. My house has "updated" appliances from the 90s. They work fine. If my washer or dryer went out there is no $250/hour repair fee to replace some circuit board that may or may not be available or even manufactured now. They are pretty easy to repair DIY style and other than maybe a couple of hours lost time are cheap to fix.
I keep hoping my 90s fridge dies so I can "downgrade" to those gorgeous mid century refurbs you can find around. No luck yet, it keeps chugging.
Brother, I am in the exact same boat lol
I've had the same problems with washers and dryers. I'm fairly certain the manufacturers don't even know that metallurgy is a thing. You can't just grab any random Chinese scrap lying around, melt it into a washer, and expect the spin cycle not to rip the thing apart.
My problem was that the washer and dryer (Maytag both, and from the 80s) died. So, I'm hoping that their "commercial grade" replacement lasts until I can find someone with a stockpile of old appliances for sale.
My old man has a John Deere that was getting old when I was born. It's gotta be at least 40 years old and still runs fine.
He's done all his own maintenance; hydraulics, engine, PTO, tires. No computers, no BS.
We've used it for everything from fieldwork, tree felling, building demolition, running a generator, residential construction, you name it.
So, obviously, we can build things that both work fine and last forever without dealer service. The fact that we can't buy them is nothing but a grift.
My grandfather still uses the Farmall tractor his father bought new sometime in the '50s. And it's seen some shit. My family is big on redneck engineering/DIY/nig-rigging. Honestly with some of the things I've come across it amazes me my great-grandfather lived as long as he did and my grandfather is still alive.
So, yeah. We used to build wonderful things. Now we either chose not to or just don't know how. I'm sad to say I think its the latter.
The old Deere 4000 series (4020/4030) are known for the fact that they can't be killed. The family used to own two of them, and then they got sold when all of the older generation decided "fuck it, let's pretend we were never farmers".
And thus the true betrayal that is NAFTA comes to light. Outsourcing and globalization destroy knowledge bases in civilized countries. This leads to decay within a few decades.
And for what? Make line go up. More fake fiat currency for the money changers to enslave people with.
The only solution is the expulsion and villification of foreigners, and fierce protection of domestic manufacturing. We once had this, and America worked. It doesn't work now.
40k is less intentional designing of things to fail, but more forgetting how to make stuff.
More reasons for me to hate that device.
More Philip K. Dick than 40k. What you're describing is all throughout Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.
I think God wanted him to be a prophet but he burned himself out on drugs instead. Fascinating guy. If you havent read any of his books do so. I promise you you've seen movies based in his stuff even if you dont know his name. I doubt there is another author out there with more movies, tv shows, or video games based on their work.
It's been a while since I read it, but I own a "Complete" collection of his work.
I bought a lawnmower this year. Suburban house lawnmower not a farm machine. They push so hard towards electric and everything I saw about those they are nothing but throw-away machines. Can't get parts for them in a lot of cases even things that should be common. They are designed to toss and replace. I ended up buying a Honda instead. Feels like the end of an era, something made to be repairable and just be the best at it's job. Sadly the ecomentalists are running Honda out of that business too, but they will probably make parts for 20 years so I'm good.
I've got a washing machine that isn't even 10 years old pissing me off amongst other things. I hate disposable culture.
The worst thing is, the very people enabling this bullshit with mindless consuption are the ones bitching about the environment.
It's like, hey bud, what's the last piece of equipment you fixed yourself rather than replacing it?
I don't know, I like the newer Camries. I rented one last year and loved the thing. I had so many luxury items hooked up to my phone or chair that it made driving a different experience.
I do have a complaint about gaming. In the mid 10's we had a lot of games that were fun just to walk around. Skyrim, Zelda, GTA5, Kingdom Come, and others have been upgraded and are great to just walk around in. I think Cyberpunk 2077 is the last one. It feels like that genre has sort of died somehow.
It's a red market. The company can't sell more, so they're charging more, and trying to get more from a single user.
My Audi was in the body shop after a fender bender and the insurance set me up with a 2018 Camry as a rental.
I was not prepared for how nice that car was. I had been in my aunt's 2004 Corolla and it was about as bland as Crispix cereal. This Camry however was almost as nice as my Audi in most respects. The leather wasn't quite as good, but the features and comfort was almost the same, and to top it off I was getting like 40mpg just driving around town.
That will be the next car I buy after I offload the Audi somehow.
Exactly, just really impressive for the price. My biggest problem was mine was dark gray enough to be invisible at night. Really annoying in the work parking lot.
I like my 2018 Camry. In my mind it's still a new car since I actually bought it new, outright. I went with the stripped down version though. I wanted them to give me one with a CD player but the only way to do that was to get a moon roof and whole bunch of other moving pieces I didn't want, so I just stuck with the stripped down model. My only complaint is that the retraction on the seat belt is a little slack when I get out and try to let it wind the belt back in. Toyota makes a good car.
The newer Camrys are nice. They also buck the trend. Newer Ford sedans are made in China, newer Chevy sedans blow their engine at 50k miles (and so many have died the wait list for a crate engine is months long), and Buick is now a joke in search of a punchline.
I think much of Toyota is still nice. The Corolla has no right to look that good and work so well.
How many miles are on the truck?! I’ve been toying with the idea of one of those 160K mile power strokes I see around my town but I’ve been scared to pull the trigger.
Mine had 236k. Average lifespan before overhaul is 400k, but the overhaul is ~ five grand. If you can find a 7.3 with less than a quarter million miles for a good price, buy it.
With basic investment, you can double your money every 8 years.
Put in other words, the value of your money halves every 8 years.
By all rights, something that costed $5,000 back in Y2K should cost $40,000 in modern money. But it doesn't. It costs more then back then, for sure, but not THAT much more. We must subsidize it with government-operated commie slave labor from China, or other dictatorial communist regimes, to keep costs manageable.
Where before we had a trained American craftsman making something, we now have some sweatshop pseudo-slave doing it. And the ingredients in the product are likewise brought down in cost, inferior inputs -> inferior outputs, even ignoring the whole unskilled laborer issue. And so, the longevity and durability simply isn't there.
You can sum it up as Led Zeppelin vs Lizzo.
It's a consequence of inflation.
I'll give you an example with sewing machines.
I have 3 sewing machines in my house. One is a modern sewing machine from the 1990's. It broke after about 5 years. Another is a 1970's Sewing machine. It cumbersome, loud, but it gets the job done. Another is from 1903. It is made of cast iron, is manual speed, but in such a way that it is basically unlimited in it's variability, and it has never broken. It actually can't break.
Most people, and all Leftists would tell you that this is "Planned Obsolescence", but that's actually not true. It's not truly designed to fail. It's designed with an assumed life-span, but everything has a limited lifespan because no product is unlimited in life with or without maintenance. The issue here is that they have a life-span at a given purchasing power.
In 1903, that sewing machine would have been relatively expensive. Probably worth something like a few weeks worth of wages, which probably would have ended up being something like $20. (The prices don't have to be perfect, but stick with me) In 1970, that sewing machine might be worth several days of wages, somewhere around $20. In 1990, that sewing machine would have been worth several hours worth of wages, somewhere around $20. Translated to gold coins, that would have been around a 1 oz gold coin in 1903, a 1/10th an once of a gold coin in 1970, and 1/100th a gold coin in 1990.
So let's think about it. How good of a sewing machine could you get today for 1 oz of gold? Well, something like a $2,000 sewing machine is probably pretty good and comes with a life-time warranty. ... So what kind of sewing machine could you get in 1903 with 1/100th an ounce of gold? Nothing, they would have laughed you out of the General Store. So you would have probably had to go to your local "Tinkerer's Shop", and had to have brought a broken, barely functional, piece of junk... just like your 1990's sewing machine.
Technology has a deflationary pressure, but our Fabian Socialist monetary system (operating since 1913), has inflation that has outpaced technological innovation. Worse, the only types of companies that can manufacture goods as cheap in purchasing power are only the absolute largest mega-companies on Earth, who can drive the price of their product down by manufacturing 100 billion of the same identical products. It's all part of the same scam.
This is the same reason "Shrinkflation" exists. Notice how Arby's sliders aren't even the size of your palm anymore? They can't sell you a slider for $1 at the size of meat. They have to reduce the quality of the good in order to keep the price down. The reason they don't make pennies out of copper anymore is because copper is too expensive for how worthless your money is.
If the price point has to stay the same, but the money doesn't have the same purchasing power, then the quality MUST GO DOWN.
Congratulations, that has been happening unabated for over 100 years. If technological innovation hadn't countered the rate of inflation as good as it has, you'd realize you were a serf a lot sooner, because no one would wonder whether or not their parents had it better. The answer would be an obvious yes.
Where does one go to buy old appliances?
Look for appliance repair shops near you, or on Craigslist.
An UHD Blu Ray is objectively better in any just about any metric you could come up with than a VHS tape (or even a DVD which would have been the state of the art in 2004). They are better than what a movie theater would have had access to in 2004. Though of course there's not much being produced that's worth watching at such high quality, but that's a human problem and not a technical one.
Try running Windows XP on a modern computer: it will blow you away with how fast and responsive it is. It will perform like 20 years ago you would have expected a computer of today to perform.
There is still good tech being produced today. The problem is that the default state of this tech is for it to not work very well, and to make it work well requires that you become an expert. Sadly this is a problem in many domains including health, medicine, nutrition, law, etc...
I suspect "making modern tech not suck" is going to be a growth industry in the coming years/decades. Or taking the good aspects of modern tech and applying it to older tech to get the best of both worlds.
There are several companies and big YouTube channels that do retrocomputing on modern machines. I think the next big thing is going to be ground up phone design.
What I'm thinking about isn't "retrocomputing" so much as it's "use old methodologies (which made designs efficient out of necessity) to develop new technology". An obvious example of this in the computing world would be "If you need to make a GUIs, develop it using the Win32 API (like we would have done in 2004) instead of developing a web app and embedding a fucking web browser in your executable".
But on the flip side, things like audio and video codecs are way better than they were in 2004, and there's no reason to not use them.
There probably is some overlap with "retrocomputing" though, just because so much modern software is in such a degraded state.
Stereo equipment too. Tried buying off Amazon, had a hiss that made listening impossible. Got a 1980s monster receiver with all the bells and whistles for a couple hundred and it can blast the roof off the house in perfect clarity if I crank it up. Magic.
Also applies to people.
My new tornado flush toilets work 1000x better than that clog-o-matic shit funnel my parents had.
I like my bluetooth and backup camera in my car
Flatscreen TVs just get better
DVDs and blurays can be tossed in the garbage, watch whatever i want from my NAS, listen to music in any room in my house
My house's siding is ultra durable and will never need to be replaced
My front concrete is thicker, stronger, looks nicer, and will last longer than old-style concrete, which was poured as separate slabs and more prone to shifting and water wear
Older is better for SOME things. I think the various EV laws being passed will make gas cars into priceless commodities.
I Disagree and will words-words-words until I PROVE that your stupid baby racist brain TRICKS you into liking old things.
How racist of you, you'll make the slaves producing cheap knockoffs of old designs cry! Well, cry more at least.