He made a really good point about the just world fallacy only being applied to outgroups. The same people who blame romantically unsuccessful men for their problems tell favored castes that nothing is their fault because the hated straight white male is oppressing them. Expecting intellectual honesty from those types is a fool's errand but pointing it out can be useful for onlookers.
This veers into the leftist idea of "the less fortunate" if you take it to it's conclusion.
If the claim is that genetics is the majority determiner of value and that nothing else matters, then it acts to discourage self improvement on both sides. Why should someone try to improve themselves if they have already won/lost?
This is dangerous because genetics are not an accident. The circumstances of your birth are a combination of factors, choices made not just by your immediate parents but by your ancestors going back centuries. Regardless of whether it's a good hand your family dealt you or not your existence is not a matter of random chance. And it's almost disconcertingly nihilistic and envious for anyone to assert that they would rather be dead than rich, or be dead than pretty. I've heard both statements in fact, from people who would almost certainly beg for their lives if someone leveled a weapon at their heads.
But the thing is, and I say this as one of the "attractive" people... lots of people in that group work our asses off too. I grew up poor. Repairing your own shoes poor. Hunting for meat poor. I earned what I have, and while I personally think the whole "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" thing is horseshit, in a lot if not most cases, people earn what they have in life by that age. Sure, my genetics resulted in being tall and attractive. One of my brothers is tall and an absolute gargoyle. And he's a puling leftist funny enough.
Genetics are not everything and you're still allowed to make choices to improve yourself.
The issue here is not as much with men's choices however, but with the hypergamy centric society that was engineered by the same hostile cabal of foreigners that has flooded us with third world invaders. The same system that was built wholesale around the previous few generations while they got drunk off credit cards, medications, Disney movies and rampant promiscuity.
Older civilizations didn't have this problem. There were women to go around. And it's a question we should ask ourselves, why? What did they do, say, and believe differently and how do we get back to what worked?
The problem comes when plummeting into full blown determinism. the idea that your choices don't matter, won't effect anything so why bother. It's basically the inevitable outcome of socialism, just not economically.
Being hyper focused on genetics as the sole determiner is just flipping Lysenkoism on it's head and declaring it to be true.
My point is that I'm not trying to tell anyone that they can wish themselves taller. Frankly, being short is essentially a disability for men and that is no lie. Genetics matter, and just like with economics some people are better off than others. Inequality is a fact of life and it is not inherently wrong either. Some people have more money than I did growing up, because of a combination of choices their ancestors made. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try, and lo and behold I am wealthy now, I want for nothing and I have no monetary insecurities.
I'm not suggesting any particular course of action, but I am saying that there is a wrong one.
Nihilism has no good future, either for individuals or society.
Part of the reason for hoe_math's viral over the hill post is:
he was an overweight nobody who was relatively invisible to women until after college
then he committed to getting swole around 25 and instantly women started treating him better & throwing themselves at him (IIRC he claims to have slept with something like 3 dozen women in his first year after the gym). He self-described himself about an 8/10.
women treated him like a Chad for about 12 years until his body count odometer clicked over 3 digits, mostly through apps. He was disgusted by learning the true nature of women. He claims to have unknowingly slept with lots of married women & women with bfs.
he feels he aged out about 2-3 years ago after COVID. He stopped having success on the apps. Feels he slipped to about a 6/10 and stopped getting unsolicited attention from younger women.
he says since going viral his DMs are still full of attractive women offering to do nasty things. But he's too jaded & depressed, not wanting to leave his house to get to know anyone.
It's something I've noticed for years, by this point.
Point out how unsuccessful you are sexually(or even just relationship-wise), and people will stumble over broken glass trying to find some excuse or fault to explain it away.
They never want to point out that getting a relationship is one part luck, another part skill, and that society as a whole has done it's best to take both of those elements out of the equation by destroying everything that could help the median average find a relationship and a good life.
Sadly, the nihilistic aspect is an inevitability, though.
That's what a lot of people are uncomfortable with, because the laws are designed to ensure straight White men are setup to fail at every turn due to DEI policies, and unless those are changed, failure is either guaranteed or success is deigned to be slim. Sure, you CAN work hard, but you're always going to be treading uphill on thin ice in the current career climate.
Additionally, there is no silver lining for marriage. And let's be real here, the main biological purpose for human beings is to procreate -- they're designed around that functionality. Before the last 60 years, civilised nations had a working system for building relationships and growing stable families. All of that is gone now.
Women have been convinced the most important thing they can do is kill their unborn babies (the only thing they should have been good at), and to give away the one thing that would enable them to be attached to a man as a life-partner (their sexuality). So majority of women in developed or civilised nations no longer want kids (due to career) and no longer value chastity (due to the zeitgeist pressuring them to "explore their sexuality").
And that's not even getting into the family court situations, divorce laws, and paternity fraud.
As a man, what does this leave you with?
Well, your main goal COULD be to focus on your career... but then what? You're now just a materialist, and have to essentially ignore your own biological urges to start a family because the pickings for actual wife material are slim. Majority of women are literally incapable of pair-bonding because they've become sexually numb.
Regardless of what people think of her, Nala Ray was absolutely 100% spot on in that interview about the aftermath of living like a whore, as she said: the spirit can be renewed, but the body never forgets.
Various studies show that today's 19-year-old female has a bodycount equivalent to that of a 54-year-old from the previous generation (others have more egregious stats, but we can never really know what the real numbers are because almost all women lie about it).
So all these simps out there trying to turn whores into housewives (or trying to ignore their past) are learning the hard way that she cannot and will not ever love him genuinely, because physically she's no longer capable of doing so (and if you listen to various marriage podcasts, this is becoming more and more of a problem).
It's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of guys, but it's reality. If she's on social media, has Liberal friends, or Liberal tendencies, or is a "born again virgin", she's already lost. And stats are showing majority of women are moving further Left while men are moving further Right.
It's why I always say that we won't get back to proper ways until a collapse, because no one who has power is willingly going to give it up. And in order to get back to proper ways, we need to strip the divorce laws, strip women of the right to vote, strip women of the right to office, and make infidelity a criminal offence again.
And we all know under the current systems in occidental nations (especially the U.K., New Zealand, and Australia), those changes are not possible with current leadership.
There is a reason for the old adage of "if nothing you do matters, then all that matters is what you do."
Nihilism is easy, its why its the default place of burnouts and losers. From hippies, to Lefties, to pseudointellectuals. Its a great place to feel better and superior to other people by saying simple worthless platitudes and then putting in zero work.
Having to engage with it, and recognize how it actually changes your position in the world to having more importance than ever before, that you have a very short timeframe to create meaning from meaninglessness, is extremely hard work and puts a lot of responsibility on your shoulders.
So its easier for childless grifters and man-hoes to talk about it endlessly while living lives of pure hedonism and meaningless money chasing, while trying to sucker you into following to justify their own existence.
I think one can find a form of meaning without God, but that requires your works to be larger than yourself. Raising children of great stock, producing things that enhance the world, simply being a force of inspiration for those around you. Things that might not grant you spiritually fulfillment or actualization, but are still a meaningful life if not 100%.
But, instead its just used as a lazy excuse to do nothing but sad self-pleasure. To give up entirely and be a self-fulfilling worthless, meaningless life.
You can fool yourself into thinking those things are meaningful by themselves, sure. Some people do that pretty effectively. But an honest look at the universe without Elon's sci-fi romanticism will lead you to either A) stop looking, B) anti-natalism, C) recognize God.
They are meaningful by themselves, because they lay a path for those who come after you to have a chance and find meaning for themselves. Including the chance to find and know God.
Its a subpar existence, but its still one of meaning simply because of the fruits of its labor have meaningful value to those who can benefit from it.
Metering this kind of input is probably better for you than seeing it constantly and feeling overwhelmed by it. Probably leads to better mental health and better decision-making.
Yeah, people need to be posting hopeful and good things in addition to harsh truths that need to be recognized. Wallowing in the latter will just drag out down without any motivation.
Hoe_math is correct about basically every dating observation he talks about and correct about most of the societal premises that cause those phenomena.
The part where he loses me is working 90 hours a week to release 4 videos a month plus tweets. Admittedly the videos are pretty long as of late and require dozens of hours of work each, but the math ain't mathing. Dude tweets like a chimpanzee on crack, so if he's that drained he should lay off X. He gets $3k a month from Patreon alone without collecting digital fees from his AI and reading materials. I don't think he needs the X payout.
His X posts themselves have gotten increasingly febrile and dogmatic to the point where it's hard not to imagine him writing a 2,000 word rant in a near-permanent state of eye-popping rage. He's also expanded from relationships to cultural politics and the Bible, somewhat understandably, but also a little out of his wheelhouse.
I wonder if part of this is the pressures of the influencer career where they are constantly looking at their metrics in fear of loss of engagement leading to a doom spiral for their channel. This is what caused Lindsay Ellis to flip out the last time she ran afoul of her audience. She knew she was shedding viewers, and the channel needs a constant intake of new subscribers to keep revenue up.
All of this, of course, is exacerbated by the housing costs, inflation, overregulation, and cultural propaganda crushing everyone into little Blackrock economic units. The worst effect of this might be the loneliness. If you're not in your twenties anymore, you don't have a family, and you're not plugged into IRL communities, then it is much harder to find real friendships and dates in a world where diversity has fractured community and nonsensical social conventions are attacking what's left. At that point life can start to look like a funhouse mirror. Terrance Popp has a good video about this. I think many of us are running on the treadmill to either prevent this from happening to us, or try to climb out of that hole. Popp himself has concluded that he simply "won't be around" after some point in his 60s, which is really sad.
In the past, husbands and wives would have faced the world together at least. Larry Fink, Gloria Steinem, Obama, social media engineers, the owners of online dating and porn, and a train of other ghouls have ensured this does not happen.
Did you know that Lindsay Ellis is still milking her old fans for about 300k/yr in old Patreon subs despite essentially producing zero content since her "canceling"?
A lot of guys in the "anti-hoe" sphere fell for the "men's peak is 35!" line and forget that by peak it means you are probably all downhill from there in a lot of ways.
Sure career might improve, money might be more flowing, and your ability to pull hoes with daddy issues might become simple, but you'll an aged father to any children and miss a large amount of their adulthood, and your grandchildren's childhoods.
Yeah, but when you have kids it’s not about you and your experiences. Your kids will turn into adults and just be happy you made them and we’re around for a little while.
40s isn't ideal, but it's not a terrible time to have kids either. Nobody should stop trying to have kids at 40.
If you're treating your body like garbage, stop doing that and you will have plenty of fun times with your kids.
I know people with significantly older fathers than that and while at all costs you should try to have kids earlier, I wouldn't go so far as discouraging anyone.
And if you are 40+ as a man, you are almost certainly going to not be able to give them as much of an experience as if you were 10+ years younger. Age limits us all, no matter how much you fight it it will still catch you. Sure you might have more money, but then you are at the gap between "attention versus stuff" on what makes a kid happier.
And its more than just your own kids. Grandparents are an integral part to not only helping newparents be successful through generational knowledge, but as part of a kid's happiness and development.
If you have your kids at 40+, then you will be pushing 60 by the time your kids have their own at the earliest possible chance. Reasonably you'll be closer to 70+, an age with very low capability to play with a child and a near certain death in their childhood that will devastate them.
As you say, its not about you and your experiences. Which also means giving your kids the best, longest and most capable years of your life possible instead of waiting for some "ideal" age just because you, as a man, can technically do so.
I’m proof that you can, because I make more money and have more time off to spend with my kids. During my younger days I had neither time nor money because I was always working.
You’ll still have kids at 40+, just fewer of them, and you have established a life you can provide well for them.
Its certainly possible, but its also unlikely. Most men are not going to be making more money while also working less as they age, one hopefully but not quite both. We live in clown world, where those types of jobs and careers aren't as plentiful and available to the average white guy.
During my younger years I also lacked money and time, but I made up for it with energy and resilience. Which is my point with age. I could come home after a 10 hour shift, beat up my kids for fun, sleep sporadically with a newborn and still be fully recovered with just one night on the weekend of sleeping in.
Now I am far less able to do that, and most men will cross this same bridge. You will throw a lot more footballs with the son you have in your 20s than the one in your 40s, no matter if you have the time or not.
You can still have them, but that's not the ideal choice and it has costs. Just as it does when women try to argue the same logic on their in.
just fewer of them
Considering we are in a birth rate plummet and demographic crisis, having fewer is a major problem itself on a communal and nation wide level. Even if you ignore every other point you and I can make on the topic, simply having less of them because you are waiting too long is a major issue.
This just makes me sad, and also a little worried that I’ll end up the same way. If I got to that age with nothing to show for it I’d probably end up killing myself (either intentionally or doing something stupid because I’ve got nothing to live for).
It's becoming the norm, but don't worry, I'm sure you can beat the odds. I mean just imagine if you had health problems, no money, no chance for a family AND never have the "success" with women that hoe_math did - or a career, or life experience in anything. Like you were some genetic dead end who literally wasted his youth playing video games and shit and ended up with nothing. Lmao... Can you imagine losers like that even trying to exist past 40?😆🔫
For someone in that situation I would find something they're good at and focus on that. NOT necessarily something that will make you a lot of money, but something you're decent with and could get better at.
I don't claim this is a means to an end and you will be swimming in baddies after you get good at carpentry or jujitsu or something. I only claim this is a surefire way to draw a reaction from the world, thereby validating your own existence at a basic level. For example, if you like video games and you have a modicum of talent at them, as you spend time trying to build your own game, you will see that your own efforts make a difference as you develop new and better features. If even a small number of people then play your game and give you feedback, you have affected their lives. If you address the feedback, then you have another opportunity.
Absolutely. That's good advice. The black pill is poison. Don't ever take the black pill. On the other hand, don't assume you're so good looking, or smart, or ambitious that it won't ever be force-fed to you some day. Keep your options open and be ready to adapt to life no matter where it takes you.
It sounds like hoe_math is trying to become a millionaire and bag himself a young wife with a low body count, which still seems entirely doable in his situation, so I don't know why he's complaining. It's nice that he can empathize with the audience he cultivated though.
He is trying to become a millionaire and he is trying to bag himself a young wife.
I've heard him talk about that he's only interested in age gap relationships with a cutoff around her being under 26. He doesn't even want kids, he just likes them college-young and at their peak.
He supposedly dated a an early 20s girl who moved in with him for about a month a year ago. But it didn't last because he self-reportedly is a tired, sad old man who isn't as pretty as he used to be and not rich enough yet. And he found her immature, greedy & way too sheltered by her parents.
I've heard him talk about that he's only interested in age gap relationships with a cutoff around her being under 26. He doesn't even want kids, he just likes them college-young and at their peak.
He doesn't want kids? I didn't know that. Then there's a lot of tight bodied women around his age, despite what redpillers say. Some of them come with one or two kids attached, but not much difference to him.
Why go for a 22-year old if you just want a spouse? She's going to age out eventually.
His default position is "I have no innate desire to have children".
But then this very week he had another tweet talking about how one of his side hoes who was cheating on her bf with him got pregnant and told him it was his and that she was going to abort it. Which he was fine with.
That same tweet mused that he'd probably have 70 kids by now if not for the pill & abortion.
I've also heard him muse that now that he's YouTube rich, he might as well get a young wife to have his kids and do the dishes while he spends 90 hours a week doodling.
His past in his 20s-30s is uber degenerate.
But I give him credit that in his older wisdom, he's really mopey & longs for a deep connection with a hot young woman.
When he talks about his sordid past, he talks about the ones that got away as sort of "pick mes" that he felt a kindred spirit in, not so much his piece of ass conquests that he hit it & quit it.
His business doesn't tie him anywhere, so he could move to a place with a low cost of living.
His problem is his mentality. Thinking that marriage and children are the be all end all. It was a mistake to post that blackpill stuff: it makes him look weak and unhappy, which hurts his credibility. He ought to make peace with his prospects, move to a nice, cheapish place, and live comfortably. Perhaps slowly transition his content to other stuff since it appears that focusing on women's issues is killing him.
Yeah, sorry, I was just throwing that in there because I knew it to be true. Especially when you pointed out he is self-employed, has an online influencer career and could move anywhere for tax purposes or become a passport bro.
If you follow his Twitter at all, he spent months last year garment rending that there were no cheap & based & beautiful places in the US to live.
He spent a couple of months roadtripping last summer/fall to tour potential new home states, but ended up not liking a lot of the ones we'd probably consider the most based - TX, FL, NH, etc.
He also gets asked all the time when he is blackpilling about awful hoes & the fall of the West why he doesn't go abroad. He shuts those suggestions down pretty quick even though I've never seen him give an answer why he in theory couldn't because of dependents, etc.
If you're a "you can do it" type, your sentiment is appreciated, but it's misguided. Most of you aren't taking the time to understand what our social and policy changes have actually done to people.
Look, at the end of the day, "social and policy changes" still doesn't change the fact that you are a single case study within the statistic, and you're going to have to get with other case studies to change things. Statistics aren't laws. Hyper-focusing on macro level issues will never help anyone. It's important to recognize they exist, and that you have to work around them, but that can't be all that you're doing, or waiting to be corrected.
Yes, I get it, your 40 and don't date or have a family. I get that that's bad. However, the point is that if loneliness is a problem, then you are going to have to take time and find a partner to work through the reminder of your lives together. You can still have 40 years together with someone at 40. Maybe biological kids are out of the picture, maybe they are not. Even if they are, there's enough broken families out there that the likelihood of you having an unofficial adopted child is quite high; or being an adopted uncle or grandfather figure to other parts of your (or your spouses) family.
Yes, sure, you're probably not gonna marry a 25 year old woman as an average middle-class man at 40. That possibility is coming to an end. However, that doesn't mean you can't contribute to a family or social system.
If you are working 90 hours a week and are completely drained and making only a moderate income, then you're doing something very inefficient and unproductive with your time and you need to change your work. You need to figure out how to work 60 to 80 hours a week: 40 on your job, and 20-40 on yourself, your home, and your family.
He's just LARPing as a "40 year old middle-class man with only a moderate income".
This same week he was bragging that his selfmax.AI app is projected to make him a million dollars alone.
A problem for him though is that he hasn't diversified his income streams or embraced alt tech. He's done incredibly well financially over the last 2 years, but he hasn't even bothered to make a backup Rumble channel. And his Twitter makes it obvious that he has the "wrong" views about women, politics, LGBT, minorities, etc.
So it's only a matter of time until he starts getting hit with the ban hammer.
He made a really good point about the just world fallacy only being applied to outgroups. The same people who blame romantically unsuccessful men for their problems tell favored castes that nothing is their fault because the hated straight white male is oppressing them. Expecting intellectual honesty from those types is a fool's errand but pointing it out can be useful for onlookers.
This veers into the leftist idea of "the less fortunate" if you take it to it's conclusion.
If the claim is that genetics is the majority determiner of value and that nothing else matters, then it acts to discourage self improvement on both sides. Why should someone try to improve themselves if they have already won/lost?
This is dangerous because genetics are not an accident. The circumstances of your birth are a combination of factors, choices made not just by your immediate parents but by your ancestors going back centuries. Regardless of whether it's a good hand your family dealt you or not your existence is not a matter of random chance. And it's almost disconcertingly nihilistic and envious for anyone to assert that they would rather be dead than rich, or be dead than pretty. I've heard both statements in fact, from people who would almost certainly beg for their lives if someone leveled a weapon at their heads.
But the thing is, and I say this as one of the "attractive" people... lots of people in that group work our asses off too. I grew up poor. Repairing your own shoes poor. Hunting for meat poor. I earned what I have, and while I personally think the whole "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" thing is horseshit, in a lot if not most cases, people earn what they have in life by that age. Sure, my genetics resulted in being tall and attractive. One of my brothers is tall and an absolute gargoyle. And he's a puling leftist funny enough.
Genetics are not everything and you're still allowed to make choices to improve yourself.
The issue here is not as much with men's choices however, but with the hypergamy centric society that was engineered by the same hostile cabal of foreigners that has flooded us with third world invaders. The same system that was built wholesale around the previous few generations while they got drunk off credit cards, medications, Disney movies and rampant promiscuity.
Older civilizations didn't have this problem. There were women to go around. And it's a question we should ask ourselves, why? What did they do, say, and believe differently and how do we get back to what worked?
I don't necessarily disagree with much of that.
The problem comes when plummeting into full blown determinism. the idea that your choices don't matter, won't effect anything so why bother. It's basically the inevitable outcome of socialism, just not economically.
Being hyper focused on genetics as the sole determiner is just flipping Lysenkoism on it's head and declaring it to be true.
My point is that I'm not trying to tell anyone that they can wish themselves taller. Frankly, being short is essentially a disability for men and that is no lie. Genetics matter, and just like with economics some people are better off than others. Inequality is a fact of life and it is not inherently wrong either. Some people have more money than I did growing up, because of a combination of choices their ancestors made. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try, and lo and behold I am wealthy now, I want for nothing and I have no monetary insecurities.
I'm not suggesting any particular course of action, but I am saying that there is a wrong one.
Nihilism has no good future, either for individuals or society.
Part of the reason for hoe_math's viral over the hill post is:
Hoe_Math got defeated by hoe math.
It's something I've noticed for years, by this point.
Point out how unsuccessful you are sexually(or even just relationship-wise), and people will stumble over broken glass trying to find some excuse or fault to explain it away.
They never want to point out that getting a relationship is one part luck, another part skill, and that society as a whole has done it's best to take both of those elements out of the equation by destroying everything that could help the median average find a relationship and a good life.
I had to stop following guys like this and devon stack.
I know everything's shit. Going for a daily deep dive in the excrement isn't helping.
At least Devon Stack doesn't post everyday.
Only get the blackpilling stuff from Blackpilled a couple of times a week.
Sadly, the nihilistic aspect is an inevitability, though.
That's what a lot of people are uncomfortable with, because the laws are designed to ensure straight White men are setup to fail at every turn due to DEI policies, and unless those are changed, failure is either guaranteed or success is deigned to be slim. Sure, you CAN work hard, but you're always going to be treading uphill on thin ice in the current career climate.
Additionally, there is no silver lining for marriage. And let's be real here, the main biological purpose for human beings is to procreate -- they're designed around that functionality. Before the last 60 years, civilised nations had a working system for building relationships and growing stable families. All of that is gone now.
Women have been convinced the most important thing they can do is kill their unborn babies (the only thing they should have been good at), and to give away the one thing that would enable them to be attached to a man as a life-partner (their sexuality). So majority of women in developed or civilised nations no longer want kids (due to career) and no longer value chastity (due to the zeitgeist pressuring them to "explore their sexuality").
And that's not even getting into the family court situations, divorce laws, and paternity fraud.
As a man, what does this leave you with?
Well, your main goal COULD be to focus on your career... but then what? You're now just a materialist, and have to essentially ignore your own biological urges to start a family because the pickings for actual wife material are slim. Majority of women are literally incapable of pair-bonding because they've become sexually numb.
Regardless of what people think of her, Nala Ray was absolutely 100% spot on in that interview about the aftermath of living like a whore, as she said: the spirit can be renewed, but the body never forgets.
Various studies show that today's 19-year-old female has a bodycount equivalent to that of a 54-year-old from the previous generation (others have more egregious stats, but we can never really know what the real numbers are because almost all women lie about it).
So all these simps out there trying to turn whores into housewives (or trying to ignore their past) are learning the hard way that she cannot and will not ever love him genuinely, because physically she's no longer capable of doing so (and if you listen to various marriage podcasts, this is becoming more and more of a problem).
It's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of guys, but it's reality. If she's on social media, has Liberal friends, or Liberal tendencies, or is a "born again virgin", she's already lost. And stats are showing majority of women are moving further Left while men are moving further Right.
It's why I always say that we won't get back to proper ways until a collapse, because no one who has power is willingly going to give it up. And in order to get back to proper ways, we need to strip the divorce laws, strip women of the right to vote, strip women of the right to office, and make infidelity a criminal offence again.
And we all know under the current systems in occidental nations (especially the U.K., New Zealand, and Australia), those changes are not possible with current leadership.
There is a reason for the old adage of "if nothing you do matters, then all that matters is what you do."
Nihilism is easy, its why its the default place of burnouts and losers. From hippies, to Lefties, to pseudointellectuals. Its a great place to feel better and superior to other people by saying simple worthless platitudes and then putting in zero work.
Having to engage with it, and recognize how it actually changes your position in the world to having more importance than ever before, that you have a very short timeframe to create meaning from meaninglessness, is extremely hard work and puts a lot of responsibility on your shoulders.
So its easier for childless grifters and man-hoes to talk about it endlessly while living lives of pure hedonism and meaningless money chasing, while trying to sucker you into following to justify their own existence.
Funny enough, nihilism is supposed to help you find meaning but in the end that doesn't happen apart from God.
I think one can find a form of meaning without God, but that requires your works to be larger than yourself. Raising children of great stock, producing things that enhance the world, simply being a force of inspiration for those around you. Things that might not grant you spiritually fulfillment or actualization, but are still a meaningful life if not 100%.
But, instead its just used as a lazy excuse to do nothing but sad self-pleasure. To give up entirely and be a self-fulfilling worthless, meaningless life.
You can fool yourself into thinking those things are meaningful by themselves, sure. Some people do that pretty effectively. But an honest look at the universe without Elon's sci-fi romanticism will lead you to either A) stop looking, B) anti-natalism, C) recognize God.
They are meaningful by themselves, because they lay a path for those who come after you to have a chance and find meaning for themselves. Including the chance to find and know God.
Its a subpar existence, but its still one of meaning simply because of the fruits of its labor have meaningful value to those who can benefit from it.
Truth.
Excellent point.
Metering this kind of input is probably better for you than seeing it constantly and feeling overwhelmed by it. Probably leads to better mental health and better decision-making.
They are at a low point. They’ll snap out of it.
Hell, I was at this point for a few years and my life was good.
Yeah, people need to be posting hopeful and good things in addition to harsh truths that need to be recognized. Wallowing in the latter will just drag out down without any motivation.
Hoe_math is correct about basically every dating observation he talks about and correct about most of the societal premises that cause those phenomena.
The part where he loses me is working 90 hours a week to release 4 videos a month plus tweets. Admittedly the videos are pretty long as of late and require dozens of hours of work each, but the math ain't mathing. Dude tweets like a chimpanzee on crack, so if he's that drained he should lay off X. He gets $3k a month from Patreon alone without collecting digital fees from his AI and reading materials. I don't think he needs the X payout.
His X posts themselves have gotten increasingly febrile and dogmatic to the point where it's hard not to imagine him writing a 2,000 word rant in a near-permanent state of eye-popping rage. He's also expanded from relationships to cultural politics and the Bible, somewhat understandably, but also a little out of his wheelhouse.
I wonder if part of this is the pressures of the influencer career where they are constantly looking at their metrics in fear of loss of engagement leading to a doom spiral for their channel. This is what caused Lindsay Ellis to flip out the last time she ran afoul of her audience. She knew she was shedding viewers, and the channel needs a constant intake of new subscribers to keep revenue up.
All of this, of course, is exacerbated by the housing costs, inflation, overregulation, and cultural propaganda crushing everyone into little Blackrock economic units. The worst effect of this might be the loneliness. If you're not in your twenties anymore, you don't have a family, and you're not plugged into IRL communities, then it is much harder to find real friendships and dates in a world where diversity has fractured community and nonsensical social conventions are attacking what's left. At that point life can start to look like a funhouse mirror. Terrance Popp has a good video about this. I think many of us are running on the treadmill to either prevent this from happening to us, or try to climb out of that hole. Popp himself has concluded that he simply "won't be around" after some point in his 60s, which is really sad.
In the past, husbands and wives would have faced the world together at least. Larry Fink, Gloria Steinem, Obama, social media engineers, the owners of online dating and porn, and a train of other ghouls have ensured this does not happen.
Did you know that Lindsay Ellis is still milking her old fans for about 300k/yr in old Patreon subs despite essentially producing zero content since her "canceling"?
Hey, who said tolerating people like MovieBob wasn't worth it? There's a lot of money in MovieBobs.
Not wrong, but leads to nihilism.
We discussed some of these issues here some time ago, very relevant.
https://scored.co/c/KotakuInAction2/p/16c243E25x/are-relationships-hard-in-this-c/c
https://scored.co/c/KotakuInAction2/p/16c248tSvg/collapse-of-social-life/c
He's not too young. He's 40. His life is more than half over. The story and trajectory of his life are already written.
A lot of guys in the "anti-hoe" sphere fell for the "men's peak is 35!" line and forget that by peak it means you are probably all downhill from there in a lot of ways.
Sure career might improve, money might be more flowing, and your ability to pull hoes with daddy issues might become simple, but you'll an aged father to any children and miss a large amount of their adulthood, and your grandchildren's childhoods.
Yeah, but when you have kids it’s not about you and your experiences. Your kids will turn into adults and just be happy you made them and we’re around for a little while.
40s isn't ideal, but it's not a terrible time to have kids either. Nobody should stop trying to have kids at 40.
If you're treating your body like garbage, stop doing that and you will have plenty of fun times with your kids.
I know people with significantly older fathers than that and while at all costs you should try to have kids earlier, I wouldn't go so far as discouraging anyone.
And if you are 40+ as a man, you are almost certainly going to not be able to give them as much of an experience as if you were 10+ years younger. Age limits us all, no matter how much you fight it it will still catch you. Sure you might have more money, but then you are at the gap between "attention versus stuff" on what makes a kid happier.
And its more than just your own kids. Grandparents are an integral part to not only helping newparents be successful through generational knowledge, but as part of a kid's happiness and development.
If you have your kids at 40+, then you will be pushing 60 by the time your kids have their own at the earliest possible chance. Reasonably you'll be closer to 70+, an age with very low capability to play with a child and a near certain death in their childhood that will devastate them.
As you say, its not about you and your experiences. Which also means giving your kids the best, longest and most capable years of your life possible instead of waiting for some "ideal" age just because you, as a man, can technically do so.
I’m proof that you can, because I make more money and have more time off to spend with my kids. During my younger days I had neither time nor money because I was always working.
You’ll still have kids at 40+, just fewer of them, and you have established a life you can provide well for them.
Its certainly possible, but its also unlikely. Most men are not going to be making more money while also working less as they age, one hopefully but not quite both. We live in clown world, where those types of jobs and careers aren't as plentiful and available to the average white guy.
During my younger years I also lacked money and time, but I made up for it with energy and resilience. Which is my point with age. I could come home after a 10 hour shift, beat up my kids for fun, sleep sporadically with a newborn and still be fully recovered with just one night on the weekend of sleeping in.
Now I am far less able to do that, and most men will cross this same bridge. You will throw a lot more footballs with the son you have in your 20s than the one in your 40s, no matter if you have the time or not.
You can still have them, but that's not the ideal choice and it has costs. Just as it does when women try to argue the same logic on their in.
Considering we are in a birth rate plummet and demographic crisis, having fewer is a major problem itself on a communal and nation wide level. Even if you ignore every other point you and I can make on the topic, simply having less of them because you are waiting too long is a major issue.
This whole thread needs Jesus.
This just makes me sad, and also a little worried that I’ll end up the same way. If I got to that age with nothing to show for it I’d probably end up killing myself (either intentionally or doing something stupid because I’ve got nothing to live for).
It's becoming the norm, but don't worry, I'm sure you can beat the odds. I mean just imagine if you had health problems, no money, no chance for a family AND never have the "success" with women that hoe_math did - or a career, or life experience in anything. Like you were some genetic dead end who literally wasted his youth playing video games and shit and ended up with nothing. Lmao... Can you imagine losers like that even trying to exist past 40?😆🔫
I know a lot of people like this. 40 going on 17.
For someone in that situation I would find something they're good at and focus on that. NOT necessarily something that will make you a lot of money, but something you're decent with and could get better at.
I don't claim this is a means to an end and you will be swimming in baddies after you get good at carpentry or jujitsu or something. I only claim this is a surefire way to draw a reaction from the world, thereby validating your own existence at a basic level. For example, if you like video games and you have a modicum of talent at them, as you spend time trying to build your own game, you will see that your own efforts make a difference as you develop new and better features. If even a small number of people then play your game and give you feedback, you have affected their lives. If you address the feedback, then you have another opportunity.
There are some hot single moms in BJJ though.
Absolutely. That's good advice. The black pill is poison. Don't ever take the black pill. On the other hand, don't assume you're so good looking, or smart, or ambitious that it won't ever be force-fed to you some day. Keep your options open and be ready to adapt to life no matter where it takes you.
It sounds like hoe_math is trying to become a millionaire and bag himself a young wife with a low body count, which still seems entirely doable in his situation, so I don't know why he's complaining. It's nice that he can empathize with the audience he cultivated though.
He is trying to become a millionaire and he is trying to bag himself a young wife.
I've heard him talk about that he's only interested in age gap relationships with a cutoff around her being under 26. He doesn't even want kids, he just likes them college-young and at their peak.
He supposedly dated a an early 20s girl who moved in with him for about a month a year ago. But it didn't last because he self-reportedly is a tired, sad old man who isn't as pretty as he used to be and not rich enough yet. And he found her immature, greedy & way too sheltered by her parents.
He doesn't want kids? I didn't know that. Then there's a lot of tight bodied women around his age, despite what redpillers say. Some of them come with one or two kids attached, but not much difference to him.
Why go for a 22-year old if you just want a spouse? She's going to age out eventually.
He's really full of contradictions.
His default position is "I have no innate desire to have children".
But then this very week he had another tweet talking about how one of his side hoes who was cheating on her bf with him got pregnant and told him it was his and that she was going to abort it. Which he was fine with.
That same tweet mused that he'd probably have 70 kids by now if not for the pill & abortion.
I've also heard him muse that now that he's YouTube rich, he might as well get a young wife to have his kids and do the dishes while he spends 90 hours a week doodling.
His past in his 20s-30s is uber degenerate.
But I give him credit that in his older wisdom, he's really mopey & longs for a deep connection with a hot young woman.
When he talks about his sordid past, he talks about the ones that got away as sort of "pick mes" that he felt a kindred spirit in, not so much his piece of ass conquests that he hit it & quit it.
He has a lot.
His problem is his mentality. Thinking that marriage and children are the be all end all. It was a mistake to post that blackpill stuff: it makes him look weak and unhappy, which hurts his credibility. He ought to make peace with his prospects, move to a nice, cheapish place, and live comfortably. Perhaps slowly transition his content to other stuff since it appears that focusing on women's issues is killing him.
He just moved to a zero-income tax state about six months ago.
He's one of those guys that has never left the US and has no desire to despite having very little tethering him here.
I didn't mean leave the US, I just meant going away from big cities or something.
Yeah, sorry, I was just throwing that in there because I knew it to be true. Especially when you pointed out he is self-employed, has an online influencer career and could move anywhere for tax purposes or become a passport bro.
If you follow his Twitter at all, he spent months last year garment rending that there were no cheap & based & beautiful places in the US to live.
He spent a couple of months roadtripping last summer/fall to tour potential new home states, but ended up not liking a lot of the ones we'd probably consider the most based - TX, FL, NH, etc.
He also gets asked all the time when he is blackpilling about awful hoes & the fall of the West why he doesn't go abroad. He shuts those suggestions down pretty quick even though I've never seen him give an answer why he in theory couldn't because of dependents, etc.
Sounds defeatist.
Look, at the end of the day, "social and policy changes" still doesn't change the fact that you are a single case study within the statistic, and you're going to have to get with other case studies to change things. Statistics aren't laws. Hyper-focusing on macro level issues will never help anyone. It's important to recognize they exist, and that you have to work around them, but that can't be all that you're doing, or waiting to be corrected.
Yes, I get it, your 40 and don't date or have a family. I get that that's bad. However, the point is that if loneliness is a problem, then you are going to have to take time and find a partner to work through the reminder of your lives together. You can still have 40 years together with someone at 40. Maybe biological kids are out of the picture, maybe they are not. Even if they are, there's enough broken families out there that the likelihood of you having an unofficial adopted child is quite high; or being an adopted uncle or grandfather figure to other parts of your (or your spouses) family.
Yes, sure, you're probably not gonna marry a 25 year old woman as an average middle-class man at 40. That possibility is coming to an end. However, that doesn't mean you can't contribute to a family or social system.
If you are working 90 hours a week and are completely drained and making only a moderate income, then you're doing something very inefficient and unproductive with your time and you need to change your work. You need to figure out how to work 60 to 80 hours a week: 40 on your job, and 20-40 on yourself, your home, and your family.
He's just LARPing as a "40 year old middle-class man with only a moderate income".
This same week he was bragging that his selfmax.AI app is projected to make him a million dollars alone.
A problem for him though is that he hasn't diversified his income streams or embraced alt tech. He's done incredibly well financially over the last 2 years, but he hasn't even bothered to make a backup Rumble channel. And his Twitter makes it obvious that he has the "wrong" views about women, politics, LGBT, minorities, etc.
So it's only a matter of time until he starts getting hit with the ban hammer.
I despise the defeatism but what I detest even more is how much it resonates with me.