One of my many nerd groups I’m is is one for pre-Disney Star Wars fans which is mainly an EU group and we were talking about how all these shill sites have so many good things to say about the EU now when I can remember them talking about how bad it was when Disney took over. Honestly that was my first awareness of the shill media because nerd sites who were pretty positive about the EU all of a sudden started crapping on it once Disney got rid of it.
Some of the guys see this as a positive sign but I guess I’m cynical because I think they just realize that the sequels and a lot of Disney Star Wars isn’t as popular as they want us to believe. Plus I hear the OT toys still sell pretty well.
So what do y’all think? Is this a positive sign or am I right to be cynical?
OG Star Wars merch does still sell pretty well. Not just toys and collectibles but also media. The sales of the Jedi: Fallen Order and Survivor games as well as Battlefront are proof that the brand still has some life to it.
But I'm not convinced that reviving the EU is the best way to restore good storytelling in Star Wars. The early EU stuff was great: the Daley Han Solo novels, the Zahn novels and the comics were fixtures of my childhood. I re-read the Young Jedi Knights books so many times that my copies fell apart and I had to get new ones.
But the whole thing really went off the rails with the NJO, and I don't see how reviving the EU would put Star Wars in a better place when audiences will eventually have to put up with the Yuuzhan Vong and Darth Caedus. Frankly, neither of those storylines is any better than Rian Johnson at his worst.
I’m currently reading the last NJO book. I really like the series but I know a lot of people didn’t. I mean Kylo Ren is a ripoff of Darth Caedus. At this point I think you could do some good animated adaptations with some EU stories. Rian Johnson is so obsessed with subversion
I think the Yuuzhan Vong were the original subversion: a concept that had no place in Star Wars, inserted into it anyway by a bunch of proto-woke 2000s degenerates so that they could feature all of their weird fetishes in a bunch of YA/kids books.
Well I never saw it that way but there was a lot of the pleasure and pain with them.
I never read that far but I did get a book once that gave a synopsis of the entire timreline and even just that gave the impression that the whole thing jumped the shark with the Yuuzan Vong.
I likes the Crispin Solo origin story, and how it dovetailed around the Daley books.
It's so frustrating to see how they butchered Solo when so many obvious and workable plot-points were laid out for them.
Why is Solo such a good pilot and why is he familiar with Imperial ships and protocols?
He trained to be in the Imperial Navy.
Where did he meet Chewbacca and why is he owed a life debt?
Wookies were enslaved by the Empire; he got kicked out of the Navy for saving Chewie's life.
Why was he a smuggler and how did he know people like Lando and Boba Fett?
He was blacklisted and needed work so he flew for criminals, meeting various characters along the way.
Like, just really obvious and believable stuff that they could have run with. We'll never know what they were snorting when they cooked up squid vampires and robo-sexual life partners.
When I first saw they were doing a Solo movie I foolishly thought they would adapt the Crispin trilogy. Boy was I wrong. I thought Emilia Clarke would play Bria Tharen
Disney had one job; Bring the old cast back together for one last hurrah. The consumers may have forgiven everything else if they did so. Instead, they made every wrong decision in the Mickey Mouse trilogy. The damage done is permanent. The story is tarnished. No reason to care for any Star Wars media, since it all leads to that trilogy.
I'm glad they distanced themselves from the EU, rather than wrecking that, too. Funnily enough, the worst parts of the EU inspired their franchise killing trilogy. Now they're crawling back to the beloved stories, hoping you lavish gratitude for crumbs while rewriting them for their terrible OCs. I guarantee the mickey mouse version of Heir to the Empire will be dreck.
And the Rey movie sounds like they will bastardize NJO. Showing the old heroes together at the beginning of episode 7 should’ve been a slam dunk. Not having Luke be pathetic as well
The force awakens was acceptable. Not great by any means but it had some moments. The last Jedi was the straw the broke the camels back. It was a giant shit on the fans. The vanguard of wokism that destroyed everything great about Star Wars. It was at that moment I realized that Disney’s goal wasn’t to honor a great franchise but to push their misguided agenda forcefully into the masses.
I didn't mind it being basically a reskin of A New Hope because it was reasonably well done and gave us Kylo Ren as a compelling new bad guy.
They did his character no favors by having him being defeated in TFA by Rey
Imagine watching a new hope and Luke fighting Vader after a few hours of lightsaber practice and winning the duel. Same thing. Even in empire he put up a good fight but that was after training with yoda and Vader was holding back because he was trying to get Luke over to his side.
Rey is just an insufferable Mary Sue. One of many reasons the sequels were crap.
Exactly
I didn’t find Kylo very interesting. He felt one dimensional, shallow, and more teenage angst than burning with hate.
I would’ve preferred he kept the mask on. Would’ve added some mystery to his character.
Even with Kylo, people were pointing out the suspicious similarity between him and another, much more cooler character from the Old Republic times made by much better writers(coughcoughRevancough).
For all the screeching KK did about not having any source material, they seemed very eager to poorly copy alot of shit from their betters.
I thought Darth Vader's Ugly Ass Millennial Shithead Grandson was a good premise, the mask was interesting but didn't seem vital to the character. Plenty of places that character could have gone and they picked the worst one possible.
Im still bitter at the fan reaction to Midichlorians.
This single handlely crushed the man's enthusiasm.
He sold out , he deemed himself unfit.
He sold to the biggest dog on the market. Hoping the investement was enough to make them work on it.
They consulted him for 8. He went "not my problem".
I forgive the zealous re edits. I cant forgive how people treated the man who created what they say they "love"
I don't.
It means I can't get my hands on a digital copy of the movie I grew up rewatching on VHS.
Do a search for 4K77
God bless you, you beautiful bastard.
I found the experience made the movie feel "new".
It's stupid, but because my brain didnt remember the random shit in the background, and the order of scenes , etc. When I rewatched the series it forced me to consult the VHS to make sure my memory haad been failing.
Disney has done this to me alot too. DvD releases were not like VHS releases. Mild differences to make a movie lover think they've gone mad.
It happens all the time, and no one says anything usually. What's different about Lucas?
Midichlorians work perfectly well as a symptom of Force Sensitivity. People way overreacted.
A simple line of dialogue explaining it in later movies would have fixed it.
"Midi chlorians aren't the force but they are always attracted to it"
"The force is an energy field that binds all living things. Ones who are naturally in tune with the force naturally harbor many of these microscopic creatures who thrive on the connection."
You could even have a chicken or the egg sort of deal. Are Midichlorians the source of force sensitivity, or are they merely drawn to it? Or are they spawned from the Force itself? Having mysteries in-universe that people in and out of story can debate over is good storytelling in of itself.
They overreacted to the Prequels, period.
Did it have its moments of cringe? Yes, especially in Episode 1. But there was nothing I considered to be unwatchable, and I will die on my hill proclaiming that Revenge of the Sith is my favorite Star Wars movie.
But a lot of it seemed like spite over nothing. Like all of the people complaining about Anakin having strange dialogue. Yes, he did. My boy was raised in a cult that told him emotions were evil. How did you expect him to talk to people?
My favorite moment in all of Star Wars is Vader’s redemption. You don’t get that without the awesomeness of Episode 3. That final battle is epic. When I heard they would have them fight again in that obi wan show I was like WTF.
There is a legends book called the life and times of Anakin Skywalker and when he dies he is greeted by Obi Wan in the afterlife and that’s who trains him on how to be a force ghost
No. The Star Wars prequels are legitimately, objectively trash. George Lucas has no ear for dialogue, shows no editing or directing talent, and is obsessed with soulless special effects.
The notion that any of the Star Wars prequel movies are better than any of the original trilogy is laughable. And I say this as a man who thinks Return of the Jedi is pretty borderline.
Older Lucas made mistakes.
He is human. And I wont be angry at him for fucking around and finding out. He tried, did you?
Say what you will, I can prove prequels are memorable. Just by pulling up memes. Evidence that it sticks with people. I see the laying in the fields "you mean this , right?" meme almost every fucking day. Or the "I hate sand".
You dont get that out of the new ones, barely remember em, and I saw most of em.
And even the originals get quoted, memed reprised all the time, proving its iconographic value.
Prequels dont need to be better, they need to fit. And the star wars prequel fit in as the TLDR of what led to 5. I will never forget Vader getting off the table and going "Noooooo"
What a wholesome rehash of that scene.
Nah the prequels were pretty trash
Good.
George Lucas was one small piece of what made Star Wars great, among an entire cast and staff of people working their hardest on it, including his ex-wife.
The prequels were him deciding that he could do it all on his own and didn't need anybody else.
That's why they were shit.
The prequels are not awful. There are some fantastic things about them and in some ways they took Star Wars to new heights. The problem is that there are also some glaring flaws that you can't overlook.
It's definitely a mixed bag but prequel stuff like Jedi robes, the crazy lightsaber fights*, Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, Hayden Christensen as Anakin, Coruscant, and Yoda's combat prowess are truly part of Star Wars.
*lightsabers are not swords and the Disney attempt to appeal to Mike Stoklasa is partly responsible for Disney SW fights being bad
Yeah, too much freedom and confidence, Its just the man living the dunning kruger, I grew up with the prequel releases , and sure there was alot of love scenes that I hated as a kid. As an adult, they really fuel the character of Vader.
He isnt just a bad guy, he's a dude life has stolen everything from , left with only his rage.
Precisely. The revisionist movement to rehabilitate Lucas’s image in the wake the terrible sequel trilogy is insane. The prequel trilogy remains awful, and the culpability remains with George.
I liked the prequels. It had a good story which was the tragedy of Anakin. I wish he would’ve just had a father but I was fine with midichlorians. Disney threw out his outline for sequels. Then they trash the EU and say they have no source material. Unbelievable
Yes but what about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you.
I have that book but haven’t read it yet
The biggest problem with Mara Jade was that she was an attractive redheaded woman, something you absolutely cannot have in modern movies or TV shows, especially adaptations.
Happened in comics and gaming too. They are so obsessed with getting women in the hobby they never try to get women who were actual fans. I gave Disney Star Wars a chance and Carano being fired was the last straw. Especially with all the anti white stuff or hatred of trump supporters from Pedro Pascal.
The problem was never that they didn't have good ideas, it was always that they were woke. Even if they had used the EU materials, they would have just fucked them up.
The important thing to recognize is that this is not merely a matter of a giant corporation trying to cash it; if it were, we might get some decent stuff.
It's a political attack against our culture, in this case using Star Wars as a weapon.
That's why they don't care that they're bleeding money like a stuck pig, and Kathleen Kenedy kept her job after the Solo dumpster fire. They are trying to get us to hate ourselves, and to question the very idea that there ever was such a thing as good, either morally or in terms of quality.
They want us so depressed that we won't get off the couch to stop them when they're literally raping children. They tested the waters by raping Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
I used to want Disney to do something with the EI but now I’d rather the fans have it. Have you seen Darth Angelus on YouTube? He is doing an Heir to the Empire animated adaptation.
It's a
politicalspiritual attack against our culture, in this case using Star Wars as a weapon.This goes beyond politics and even culture. The Sequel Trilogy is an attack on heroism itself. It's not just a subversion of Star Wars; it's a subversion of the Hero's Journey itself. The destruction of these cultural icons is an attack on heroism itself. It's their way of striking out against Goodness and the God that is the source of all Goodness.
Until people realize that this is an extension of the same spiritual war that has been going on since the Fall, I don't think that we're going to make any real progress in fighting this.
once a shill, always a shill. if they're saying something good it's because they were told to.
Ding, ding, ding. What do you want to be that the next Disney project after the current crop is something from the EU? Rogue Squadron, back from cancellation? Prince Xizor?
Prince Xizor and Black Sun could be really cool if adapted by the right person
Excuse me, bigot. I think you meant Princess Xizor and the Sun of Color. -- Kathleen Kennedy
I stand corrected.
When it comes to the media, it is entirely cynical. It is now becoming acceptable to attack Kathleen Kennedy and declare her a failure, so now they are allowed to big up the old EU.
Although if you want a point of optimism, it is this: If Lucasfilm or Star Wars ever gets to a point where it is allowed to actually start making movies again, they have yet to actually touch the EU. Which means you can go ahead and make movies and games in that timeline.
And that may not be as remote of a chance as you might think, considering that Hollywood is seemingly finally starting to realize you have to actually make money somehow.
I’m currently reading the last NJO book. I always felt that would make a great animated adaptation but you have to really show the ruthlessness of the Vong and be mature. Safe bet would be Heir to the Empire. What do you think?
It would probably be the safest bet, yes. Thrawn is probably one of the best villains/characters in all of Star Wars, so he would be able to be a very good draw for the movie. And like you said, his obsession with preparing the galaxy for the Vong invasion he knows is coming would be a great way to introduce them while making it out like Luke and the New Republic are just dealing the Imperial Remnant forces.
Actually getting the Vong done would probably be a lot harder. You have to show them as being even more evil than anything the Empire would have ever done, but they do plenty of things that would probably not fly with an audience who thinks Star Wars is a kid-friendly property. So you would need to ride a fine line of showing the Vong as evil as they were, while also making it passable. But you would probably need the Vong since their anti-Force abilities would be an interesting way of giving the Jedi a threat other than the Sith, so it would be healthy for it overall.
The problem is that there probably isnt anyone in Hollywood capable to puling this off who also wouldnt piss off the current ruling forces at Disney. So either Lucasfilm needs to be under new management, or Disney needs to be. It would probably be hard to get to that point, but it would be extremely rewarding. And I think if you did it well, you could see Star Wars bounce back and go right back to being the money printing machine it has always been.
All they needed was to cast Michael Fassbender as Thrawn, or Jeffrey Combs standing on a box, and they had it made.
"What would a note have said? 'Wookiee dead, details later'?"
That's actually the exact series I'd like to see AI produce into an animated production.
I'll never trust most of these media companies ever again. They'll twist, lie, and say anything if they think it'll help them manipulate fans of an IP or franchise.
At this point we're all better off turning our backs on the companies and doing whatever we want with the franchises in our own way, ignoring any news or updates being pushed by Disney or their like.
Star Wars is cautionary tale of first not crapping on the original creator too much as that's what made him sell to Disney and of careful who you get entertainment news from as these shill sites are only rotating their position as Disney is right now in full titanic mode and there's a massive iceberg in the distance.
If it's going to recover as a franchise, it'll have to be post Disney as so long as it's in their 'stewardship', you're best of sticking to EU and fanfiction only.
Exactly what I do. Currently reading the last NJO book. If they weren’t gonna use the Lucas outline then they should’ve adapted Thrawn trilogy or use the Yuuzahn Vong as the big bad for a new trilogy.
If Disney had faithfully adapted the Heir to the Empire trilogy (with story allowances for Carrie Fisher being too old to plausibly be pregnant, I have no idea how because C'Baoth trying to get ahold of Jedi twins is integral to the story but they pay writers six figures to solve things like that) The Last Command would have grossed 3 billion dollars.
The EU was awful, in more than a few places, while good in others. The Yuuzhan Vong is still the single stupidest plotline I've ever read in my entire life.
Disney's version of the franchise is still far worse. But arguably they were never trying to be good.
Even EU novels' worst stories were at least respectful to the franchise. I never read New Jedi Order, but it's hard to imagine getting worse than I, Jedi (and I read that because it was a solo adventure of one of my favorite EU heroes).
What’s the best of the EU in your eyes? Crystal Star is my least favorite but I’ve been into the EU since my 12th bday when I got Heir to the Empire. I understand how some didn’t like NJO because it was a big departure and the deaths
Thrawn trilogy, no doubt.
Hands down.
Nothing else even really comes close is the thing. A lot of Thrawn's deductions are ass pulls, let's be honest, and the man himself is just blue, evil Sherlock Holmes. However it's the closest thing the entire series ever got to actual space tactics and strategy.
Something that many people crave from fiction.
There was always garbage in the EU. Some of it is great, but you also had shit like Karen Traviss pretending the Mandalorians are the real heroes of the Star Wars universe.
True. Can’t say everything is great but it’s my personal head canon along with pre Disney films.
Be cynical until star wars is actually owned and run by competence again. Major reason why current star wars is bad and eu was discarded was writer's rights needed to be renewed and disney obviously didn't want to do that
So the end result was content that ripped off the eu but never actually did proper world building like the eu did. Part of this penny pinching also meant hiring many people who work basically minimum wage but are underqualified to write the stories (this is the same process used for the dying comic book industry).
Until we get people who arent penny pinching plagiarists, there isnt really any reason to not be cynical. The media is easily bought off. The only reason they write that the eu is good now is because disney aint paying and they want the clicks.
The moment that Disney bought star wars there was a weird full court press shaming fans for daring to be critical of the prequels as well, totally inorganic.
I never really followed the EU but the prequels especially got a Media Makeover once Disney bought it. All of a sudden there was lots of press about how they weren't that bad and were actually good. It was pretty disgusting.
I always liked the prequels but I can understand why some didn’t like them. I do think compared to the sequels they look much better. Plus they were made by someone who doesn’t hate Star Wars.
And the spite Disney shows. They could’ve easily just made it a separate continuity and continue stories or at the very least finish the Sword if the Jedi trilogy. Imagine how popular Mara Jade would be if they got an attractive red head to play her.
I’m just picturing that scene from the Simpsons where Marge tries to order coffee in an Australian bar.
Fan: “I’d watch a show with an attractive redhead.“
Producer: “One fat black non-binary with a skin disease coming right up.”
Fan: “I said, an attractive redhead.”
Producer: “Right, a fat black non-binary with the skin disease.”
Fan: “R-E-D…”
Producer: “F-A-T…”
Ha!!! So true
Corporate greed rarely understands why something is popular.
I would say it is more cynical than that, there are plenty of people huffing their own fumes creatively but I genuinely think especially with a company like Disney that many people internally are aware they aren't producing quality content because they want and expect an audience that will simply consume what they are told to consume. The entire approach to the EU after acquisition I believe was because they knew from the get go that of they attempted to engage with it or altered anything or tried to adapt any of it that there would be backlash or criticisms about what they did, so they not only wiped the slate they then astroturfed a wave of criticism against the EU in the first place. It is not remotely a perfect thing at all but it was always odd how suddenly a bunch of online sentiment and midwit YouTubers were suddenly saying "the EU was always bad" at the same time. I think sometimes the ideology approach doesn't account for the fact that a bunch of these folks merely ape the ideology because it's relevant now days and the more significant factor is that a bunch of scummy fucks want you to pay them multiple times a year to eat their shit and do that for the rest of your entire life and make sure every kid born is quickly on the drip feed of garbage for their entire life too. They don't remotely care about making a good or even acceptable product, they want to make any garbage they want and make billions off it and if you remotely address the scam or the shit content they produce they just astroturf more bullshit about entitlement or whatever the current label fits to make you out to be a bad faith actor