Fuck these cunts, they just want a libtard light version of reddit. If I hear one more "I hate SJWs, but like... I am a turbo atheist, who wants "free" everything, trannies everywhere, I support all weird sexual perversions, marriage is evil, I totally support feminism, everyone should be a whore, no borders, fuck the police, I adore Islam, veganism is the way, etc." idiot, I will scream.
They always act like little bitches the moment you dare to speak up about their shit. Then they claim it's totally both sides. BULL. Fucking. SHIT.
If I sperged all day about some mystical totally real right wing crypto Nazis, they would never care.
EDIT: As a sidenote, which Admin is trying to fuck a tranny? Every time some shit like this happens, one of the admins is trying to fuck some ugly, horse faced dude pretending to be an anime girl.
Fess up, which one of the limp dicks is trying to pick up a dude in knee socks on Discord?
The goal has always been to not show politics on communities.win by default. Users who want to see politics can flick on toggle and see it all.
The first time that we included any communities with their own domains on the front page at all was 2 weeks ago, and we were clear that communities which feature politics would be tagged as politics.
Alternatively, they can subscribe to communities and use the home feed.
No surprise, we just deployed the initial topics system without finalizing what's what. Like how IP2 and ConsumeProduct are tagged as politics when perhaps they aren't (we'll review).
This is ridiculous fear-mongering, u/Graphenium is being intentionally misleading.
It's always been the policy for politics to be opt-in, when browsing via communities.win. In fact, until two weeks ago, none of the sites with their own domains were included on the front page at all.
Two weeks ago, we added the three "topics" of Politics, NSFW, and Other for the front page (which are toggles that users can enable or disable, and customize what they want to see on the front page). By default, users have the Politics topic disabled.
This was the first time any of the sites with standalone domains were featured on the front page, and we were clear that politically focused communities would be tagged as political communities.
The user also linked to an out of context comment (it didn't include the comment that it was in response to, making it look like it was in response to the post --- it wasn't, it was in response to an entirely different user's comment)
Ultimately - I don't think anyone should have an issue with us tagging communities that one could argue are political as politics. What could be debated is whether or not we should hide politics for default. It's always been our vision for politics to be opt-in, and that's unlikely to change without first trialing it on a bigger scale.
I don't post much here b/c it's gone from politics to 95% crazy fringe conspiracy theory nonsense. I actually agree with the frustration Ragnar_Danneskjold is expressing in his post. It's hard to have reasonable discussions or convince the unconvinced when the guy behind you is REEEEING just as loud as the people you oppose.
Is that what happened? Assuming you've got an accurate read... nope. Like I said, I'm tired of every thread being dominated by "all the women in the world are out to get me" or "it's all the Rothschilds" or the ever fun out and out racism.
I am not advocating for silencing anybody. Free speech means everybody gets to speak. But with what goes on around here I frankly see this place as a shitposting forum at this point.
Buddy do yourself a favor and read up on “the Hegelian Dialectic” aka “Problem/Reaction/Solution” aka the same faggots making the posts you’re talking about are also pushing the posts I’m talking about.
It’s all contrived to get you to mentally accept censorship.
KiA2, now that I look at the front page, isn't necessarily as political (although we have a wide definition of politics to include social issues).
I would recommend considering us political, since we're quite involved in culture war stuff. Almost a political meta, as the culture war involves a lot of non-political fields (like gaming) becoming intentionally politicized.
While you're around: any word on allowing user-created communities? I have not seen any moderator-tier failures so far on the .win network, but I believe it is inevitable to occur and reliable countermeasures should be made.
We'll allow user-created communities eventually. As for how we'll handle moderators, it's not determined...
Reddit's mainly in the mess its in with regards to moderators because the company is on board with it. They could fix their situation overnight if they cared to.
I think Win's anti-politics stance will provide some protection against moderators with ulterior motives. If Reddit removed all politics + social issues from the feed today, a lot of their political operatives disguised as moderators would be out of a job.
I don't think I agree about reddit being fixable in a single night, but I'd agree that it could be made tolerable. Just that it'd be likely for similar problems to come back afterwards.
I think Win's anti-politics stance will provide some protection against moderators with ulterior motives.
I'll interpret this favorably, but I want to point out that it will sound suspicious to others here. I'm sure you've seen some online spaces get dominated by some one-sided politics alongside claims that amount to "your ideas are political, but my ideas are moral".
Specific example. I was actually a bit alarmed when I stopped by the gaming .win, because I've had it ingrained in me from reddit that every gaming space that openly declares "no politics" will not implement the rule fairly. Reading the actual threads there afterwards, however, I did not notice evidence of such a corruption.
Back to the idea of fixing reddit, a great motion towards that end would be ensuring that all rules are applied fairly. But the nature of a ruleset is to bind its subjects, so it organically attracts bad actors who wish to place others beneath them. If you could conjure some AI supermod to eliminate that human element, the bad actors would just be pushed to the next softest target. I will not suggest attempting a purge like they have done with us, as it solves little and breeds conflict. Merely preventing the highest tiers of power from becoming compromised could be enough in the long term, but that in itself is not a simple feat.
I think it'll be fine. Powermods will end up being a thing again, but that only matters long term when the users are denied the opportunity to pack up and make a new camp. It'd be interesting if some sort of system were attempted to try to counter the phenomenon, but I won't get my hopes up.
I'm sure we'll end up repeating a lot of dumb stuff that happened on reddit. Just so long as it doesn't get totally wrecked like they did, it should be okay. I don't want to see shit like shadowbanning, bots checking post history for naughty words, scripts that auto-ban users from one section because they made a post in another section, groups dedicated to harassing neighbors, etc.
And yeah, it's sad, but I know schizo posters are real. I try to talk them down occasionally but it doesn't seem to help. But letting them run their own little camp? That should be no problem. Who could they bother there, the 4 people that follow them? I'd even abide my own enemies a place to gather as long as they keep to themselves.
will report innocuous posts as "degenerate", they have very strong political views and want opposing views removed
The report screen implies that false/frivolous reports are punishable. Do you know if that is the case? The mods would probably need a record of who reported what for this to be possible. I think that sounds fine. If a mod starts using it for bias, the admins should be willing to step in.
Actually, I'd be tempted to force reports to be public. "snitches get stitches" should only become a serious issue if the group has a problem with their ruleset. Maybe only test it in one community to see how it goes.
As far as a takeover, it could happen right now just by the wrong people worming their way into positions of power. So the admins already must be ready to deal with a takeover.
I don't agree that user created .wins would make that worse. They don't need a .win to organize and plan attacks, they can just use discord for that. It could cause some other problems, though, so I'd be fine if there was some kind of test or investigation for every attempted .win creation - preferably something handled manually by the admins and the details not being publicly disclosed so it would be very hard to cheat (if it were something dumb like post karma, that's really easy to pump with bots).
More specifically, most people, if not all, are completely untrustworthy with any amount of power over whether someone is allowed to speak their mind or not. It's why having a shifting selection of people who make rules and enforce laws was so important; no one person would be able to entrench themselves in a position of ruling over a class of people, instead of representing them. We see where that's ended up, however.
Some people just want a place to exchange ideas not being censored, without being flooded by crypto-Nazis who want to make everything about the nefarious Joooz.
The bad drives out the good, because very few people will want to join a forum where most people are whining about an ethnic group, and not intelligently at that.
Some people just want a place to exchange ideas not being censored, without being flooded by crypto-Nazis who want to make everything about the nefarious Joooz.
That is self defeating. If you want a place where you aren't censored then that implies that no one is censored- otherwise you are censored but its okay somehow because you didn't want to express those ideas anyway. And as an example on the Jew hate subject where do you draw the line? I don't hate Jews. I don't think Jews deserve hate. But I do notice. I'm a bit of a noticer. On which side of noticing do you draw the line?
If you want a place where you aren't censored then that implies that no one is censored
I would like that. The problem is that any place that allows free speech, attracts a significant contingent of the 'dregs of society' who are not allowed to express their views in any other place. They swarm any free speech community and wreck it with their BS.
If they were not swarming such places and trying to dominate them, or trying to turn them int recruiting stations/another Stormfront, there would not be a problem.
We live in the world there is, not in the world we wish to have. And the reality is that no one wants to post in a place where 80% of users blame the Jews for everything. So you can either commit suicide to stick to ossified principle, or you can argue that principle is not a suicide pact. And I am firmly of the latter. (I'd have a much greater objection if these people had anything of value to contribute, which is almost never the case. It's constant meme'ing, insinuation, and generic nonsense, almost no intelligent argument to see.)
And as an example on the Jew hate subject where do you draw the line? I don't hate Jews. I don't think Jews deserve hate. But I do notice. I'm a bit of a noticer.
I think we all know that Jews are over-represented among 'problematic' people. That doesn't mean that any thread where someone has a Jewish name has to be made a discussion about how nefarious Jews are, or with BS like 'oy vey' and 'STOP NOTICING THINGS'.
If you want to create an intelligent thread to have a discussion about it, that is of course always welcome. But the abovementioned BS just ruins a forum.
I'm finding it difficult to argue since I made basically the same argument in the lolbertarian thread. I would drop the idea of "ideas not being censored" thing altogether because it isn't what you want, and you may be right not to want it, but saying you want it when you don't is going to make it hard to formulate a real plan. You can't get what you want if you don't admit to yourself what you want. Do you ever read Curtis Yarvin? He's just wrote an essay that seems relevant to the conversation https://graymirror.substack.com/p/censorship-a-21st-century-approach .
Not wanting to censor ideas is different from being OK with a group of people trying to hijack a place. Imagine if a bunch of communists decided "hey, this is a free speech place, let's swarm and take it over". Then just spam everything with Stalin quotes and downvote the rest us. Would you like that? Neither would I. This place is about Gamergate, which is resistance to unethical journalism, PC, SJ and censorship, not a recruiting ground for people's unrelated agendas.
I understand the intent is different, but the action is the same. Censor isn't an intent it's an action. To quote the article I linked, 'Censor is just Roman for “moderator.”'
I am pretty sure it means judge (note the actor suffix -or). Quite a specific sort of judge - namely the one appointed every five years, serving for 18 months, who would judge (censere) who did and did not belong in the Senate.
Regardless, preservation is the highest good of any community. That is why we impose totalitarian speech restrictions on the subreddit, because otherwise the Reddit admins will ban us. The calculus is that it is better to have a subreddit with these restrictions, but with generally free discourse otherwise, than to have none at all.
Here as well. How on earth can you let outsiders swarm and take over this place, and drive out the people for whom it was created?
Now, if 'censor' means 'moderator', or if we want to assume that it does, then any action taken is censorship. Even removing spam. So it does not seem like a very useful and productive idea.
It's a shitty situation and he's not really wrong.
If you allow anything, the 4chan types are going to kill your site because they scare off anyone else. You simply cannot grow or have broader appeal with that kind of userbase. It's also hard to tell whether these are genuine people or lefty larpers/trolls who try to kill your site by spamming shit they know is going to get you Voated.
On the other hand, if you start moderating, the question becomes "where does it stop?".
I see both sides but no easy compromise. There's a bunch of possibilities, at least, but trying any of them practically denies the option to try the rest.
The current trajectory makes the goal clear enough, at least: make reddit v2. We'll have to wait and see how well the admins understand why reddit failed.
"Remember, it is illegal for you to look at these dot wins. It's different for the media. That's why everything you're learning about this, you're learning from us."
I do think there's some legit points made there though. There's a big difference between quality posts and just garbage presented under the guise of "you can't censor me or you are as bad as they are."
I'll take for example our resident woman hater. I don't mind him for the most part as he's consistent and you know where he stands. His post quality is typically higher, e.g. archived articles from notable sources. I said notable sources, not credible. You now have an article to discuss that's outside the context of one man's opinion. The discussion tends to stay fairly good on these posts, excluding some of the bickering with AoV at times, but even then that's entertaining and not leftist quality drivel.
I think what this /all post might be getting at is the influx of low quality garbage is bringing things down. Posts of either the: "Look I made a collage, agree with me totally or I will rail off personal attacks at you." or "Here's my opinion! I am totally right, come see if your dick is as big as mine by submitting your statement of total agreement. I bet it's not because I am the biggest of all!" don't really provide much. They devolve to nothing but a slew of personal attacks most of the time if they draw any attention at all. I also don't understand what I'm supposed to get out of some of these posts anyway. They are providing me very little educational value and zero useful intel.
I tend to avoid the latter category. I come here for fun, to educate myself, have good discussion, occasionally bitch about things and blow off steam, etc. I have no desire to make sure I measure up, and if I wanted to bicker I would have more fun screwing with leftists. Do I want to censor it, not really, but do I wish it would go away, yes. Do I think it drives others away, yes.
Are they wrong though? That post is pretty on the mark from my experience.
Any alternative to reddit becomes full of edgelords and LARPers who push everyone away and the rapidly declining userbase becomes a circlejerk of tards.
Look at consoomproduct/win, it's just 'The Jews' and 'I hate women'. This place is largely the same as well. There were more rational people on KiA2 but not so much now.
It's easy to tell it's LARPers because the only threads are edgelord posts and memes. Any post about not consooming is dead. Any post about lifting, gardening, or doing literally anything productive, is dead. The only threads like that that get replies are reading threads, and it's always the same people trying to tell each other that they're reading shit like Ayn Rand. Which again, it's easy to tell they're not because they bring up the same books every time, no one finishes a book, and they don't actually talk about what they like/dislike. They just say they're reading it and then that thread dies too. No one wants to admit they're reading shit like Tom Clancy or Clive Cussler, if they're reading anything at all.
It's the same when anything is created that promotes free speech. It's immediately filled with child porn. Then argument breaks out about how it doesn't count because they're just cartoons. Regardless of your stance, it is considered child porn depending on what country you're in. These people are expecting the site owners/admin to facilitate illegal activity and risk jail time because they can't just jack off to normal porn.
Same when they cried about Parler giving information to the FBI. Like it was a surprise. No shit they give information to the FBI, illegal activity is still illegal. Parler isn't offering to be your host of terrorism and shit. "Don't worry bros, I'll go to prison on your behalf, you go shoot up a government building... IN MINECRAFT LOL".
And I'm talking actual terrorism, not shit like a woman recieving jail time for saying the Jews need to get over the Holocaust or people protesting a clearly rigged election.
I digress, but these sites end up becoming the same as Reddit. The extreme userbase drives normal people and actual discussion away. If people wanted actual discussion the site wouldn't even have an upvote/downvote system that allows people to 'disagree' without adding anything. Or discourages discussion because people are scared of being downvoted. "I'm not scared lol" Psychologically you're influenced by the voting system, once a few votes either way have passed, the rest will follow. This is how the front page of reddit is controlled.
I hate SJWs as much as the next guy, but these sites have a problem, and that problem is that the userbase makes them unsuable for everyday people. And as much as you say you don't want normies, normies are what keeps social media going. You need them. The only difference was that these sites were supposed to have mods weren't SJW control freaks. But the userbase just shits all over it by being spergs incapable of forming one intelligent thought between them. And said spergs either attack or ignore anyone that isn't also a sperg.
But then modern 4chan is the same. Any attempt at discussion is met with seethe, tranny, dilate, shill, filtered, or people just start posting porn and hijack the thread. It's boring, it's tiring to see over and over, and these sites will die because the people who use it can't get their shit together. These people hate self improvement as much as SJWs and they are too focused on being victims, the same as SJWs.
What's worse is that from what I've seen of age discussion, it's not even kids. It's people in their late 20s-mid 30s who just never grew up.
Any alternative to reddit becomes full of edgelords and LARPers
Because anyone softer doesn't need an alternative. They could just stay on reddit because a small amount of self-censoring will suffice.
KIA1 on reddit is a "true/good liberal" shithole, while KIA2 was founded mostly on the backs of people banned from KIA1 for being too extreme or having bad opinions. And then any of our "softer" people on KIA2 either aren't committed enough to join a whole different website, or just moved on because it wasn't a deeply held fight for them.
These people are expecting the site owners/admin to facilitate illegal activity and risk jail time because they can't just jack off to normal porn.
No, most people expect them to not be morally hypocritical about it. If it was entirely legal based, they would say that. Instead they often use it as a position to soapbox about how everyone is a pedo or that all porn is evil. Most people would understand the rock/hard place problem of it, instead they turn it into a "my principles only count until its what I dislike."
These are true problems, I won't disagree. But these are problems because most people sat on their asses and let it progress so far that you have to share your space with a Nazi and borderline criminal to even speak. To pretend there is some mystical compromise where "we keep out the riffraff so the normies will flock in!" is pure utopian fallacy.
We lost this "culture war" numerous times over already. This is the consequence of that.
Sure, normies are what keeps social media going. They're also why anyone with two neurons to rub together fucking hates social media, because normies turn them into... well just go look at any social media. Facebook, or le peddit's front page, would be shit even without all the pedo tranny jannies powertripping and calling anyone who isn't one of them a nazi, I mean have you ever been to r/funny, or r/atheism, or literally any facebook page? It's not just the internet janitors that make these subs horrendous, most of the blame is solely on the users themselves.
If I wanted to share a forum with my grandma, I'd be on Facebook. I suggest you do exactly that if that's what you're looking for.
In the meantime, there's a certain discussion board about agriculture in New Zealand which is booming in both user count and amount of content, much of it excellent quality, without cucking to any corporations. The forum and its users are completely unrepentant and the owner has zero chance of making it "the next big thing" and selling it to a corporation, because no investor would ever touch it due to its reputation - and it's much better than any mainstream website, precisely because of this. Anyone new either understands what the community is about and fits in, or gets chased out and possibly doxed. It's the anti-normie forum and it's great.
There are more, lesser known ones like that. What they all have in common is that they don't apologize, they don't grovel, and the people running them aren't interested in making a ton of money by normiefying them.
This isn't something unique to internet forums and social networks, either. Remember the endless amazing tiny game studios that just did their thing and made games they wanted to make, and they were amazing? Remember when they got bought by megacorps and turned into shit? Remember when every PC gamer waited with bated breath for the next Blizzard game?
Look at consoomproduct/win, it's just 'The Jews' and 'I hate women'. This place is largely the same as well. There were more rational people on KiA2 but not so much now.
The rational people are all on the subreddit.
As for ConsoomProduct - it was always full of retards, even when it was on Reddit. Without fail, any time I had to ban someone for anti-Jewish nonsense on KiA2, he had a history on ConsumeProduct. I have no idea why, because it does not seem like it should have anything to do with the Jeeeeews.
Post Approved: At this point, literally Doggos is in the thread, so I'd rather have you see what he's saying than simply removing the post. I need to build a contested flair or something.
I don't know. That seems to happen right before I approve a post.
I don't do anything before approving a post, so I wonder if it's because I approve a post, I don't see it change, refresh the page, and then re-approve it. I have had to do that a couple times.
There's nothing else for me to do besides approve a post if it's acceptable.
Have you noticed that even though my comments aren’t visible to the forum, they have 5+ downvotes? Now which part of “shills who engage in vote manipulation are pushing to keep c/conspiracies and KiA off the front page” was in any way misleading?
Further proof that there will be no effective pushback against this latest Marxist takeover until all the civnat Boomer retards are rotting in the ground.
We are each ONE within ALL, and ALL is ONE in energy. If you comprehend this, the endless attempts to divide cannot reach your comprehension, which is why they use division in the first place...to divide the ONE from comprehending the ALL; to divide the ONE potential from comprehending ALL perceived potentiality.
Utilize inspiration over information (idols aka c/All, KiA and Conspiracies).
But... BOTH SIDES!!!!!
Fuck these cunts, they just want a libtard light version of reddit. If I hear one more "I hate SJWs, but like... I am a turbo atheist, who wants "free" everything, trannies everywhere, I support all weird sexual perversions, marriage is evil, I totally support feminism, everyone should be a whore, no borders, fuck the police, I adore Islam, veganism is the way, etc." idiot, I will scream.
They always act like little bitches the moment you dare to speak up about their shit. Then they claim it's totally both sides. BULL. Fucking. SHIT.
If I sperged all day about some mystical totally real right wing crypto Nazis, they would never care.
EDIT: As a sidenote, which Admin is trying to fuck a tranny? Every time some shit like this happens, one of the admins is trying to fuck some ugly, horse faced dude pretending to be an anime girl.
Fess up, which one of the limp dicks is trying to pick up a dude in knee socks on Discord?
The goal has always been to not show politics on communities.win by default. Users who want to see politics can flick on toggle and see it all.
The first time that we included any communities with their own domains on the front page at all was 2 weeks ago, and we were clear that communities which feature politics would be tagged as politics.
Alternatively, they can subscribe to communities and use the home feed.
Why are you surprised Pikachu that Conspiracy involves politics, though? What did you expect? Rehashed conversations about the Berenstain Bears?
No surprise, we just deployed the initial topics system without finalizing what's what. Like how IP2 and ConsumeProduct are tagged as politics when perhaps they aren't (we'll review).
Seems like a good idea. I don’t have a problem with things being filtered if the filters are up front and at the user’s control.
This post pretty much says it all. We've seen this song and dance enough times to know how it ends.
You know, you are arguing with children, women (same as children), and CIA/NSA/CCP bots, right?
I am a woman as well, but yeah, you have a point.
This is ridiculous fear-mongering, u/Graphenium is being intentionally misleading.
It's always been the policy for politics to be opt-in, when browsing via communities.win. In fact, until two weeks ago, none of the sites with their own domains were included on the front page at all.
Two weeks ago, we added the three "topics" of Politics, NSFW, and Other for the front page (which are toggles that users can enable or disable, and customize what they want to see on the front page). By default, users have the Politics topic disabled.
This was the first time any of the sites with standalone domains were featured on the front page, and we were clear that politically focused communities would be tagged as political communities.
https://communities.win/c/Changelogs/p/12hl5DX8m9/x/c/4DyNWLbyhHQ
This policy has not been at all swayed by any users, we have remained consistent on it.
Politics is opt-in.
We are an easily spooked bunch due to having been hunted across the internet.
I just wanted to
play vidya gamesmove stair muffinsGaMeRgAtE!!!! *diarrhea intensifies*
The user also linked to an out of context comment (it didn't include the comment that it was in response to, making it look like it was in response to the post --- it wasn't, it was in response to an entirely different user's comment)
Here's the more important conversation from that post: https://communities.win/c/Meta/p/12i443KZIx/x/c/4Dzdt0gYjZu
Ultimately - I don't think anyone should have an issue with us tagging communities that one could argue are political as politics. What could be debated is whether or not we should hide politics for default. It's always been our vision for politics to be opt-in, and that's unlikely to change without first trialing it on a bigger scale.
I wasn’t trying to be “misleading”, I was linking to the comment that mentioned KiA.
How are either of these subs “politics”? One is about conspiracy theories the other about shitty “journalism”
Kia is like 95% politics.
I don't post much here b/c it's gone from politics to 95% crazy fringe conspiracy theory nonsense. I actually agree with the frustration Ragnar_Danneskjold is expressing in his post. It's hard to have reasonable discussions or convince the unconvinced when the guy behind you is REEEEING just as loud as the people you oppose.
Do you feel silly agreeing with a shill who purged and deleted his account when exposed?
Is that what happened? Assuming you've got an accurate read... nope. Like I said, I'm tired of every thread being dominated by "all the women in the world are out to get me" or "it's all the Rothschilds" or the ever fun out and out racism.
I am not advocating for silencing anybody. Free speech means everybody gets to speak. But with what goes on around here I frankly see this place as a shitposting forum at this point.
Buddy do yourself a favor and read up on “the Hegelian Dialectic” aka “Problem/Reaction/Solution” aka the same faggots making the posts you’re talking about are also pushing the posts I’m talking about.
It’s all contrived to get you to mentally accept censorship.
If you know wrestling, kayfabe.
I'll refer to our conversation on conspiracies.win about that community: https://communities.win/p/12i443Lwsp/x/c/4Dzdt5HZ6Qu
KiA2, now that I look at the front page, isn't necessarily as political (although we have a wide definition of politics to include social issues).
I like this community, and I like seeing it on my all feed, despite having the politics topic disabled. However it does violate the vision.
As I've said, we'll be pushing the home feed - users should customize their experience by subscribing to communities.
I would recommend considering us political, since we're quite involved in culture war stuff. Almost a political meta, as the culture war involves a lot of non-political fields (like gaming) becoming intentionally politicized.
While you're around: any word on allowing user-created communities? I have not seen any moderator-tier failures so far on the .win network, but I believe it is inevitable to occur and reliable countermeasures should be made.
We'll allow user-created communities eventually. As for how we'll handle moderators, it's not determined...
Reddit's mainly in the mess its in with regards to moderators because the company is on board with it. They could fix their situation overnight if they cared to.
I think Win's anti-politics stance will provide some protection against moderators with ulterior motives. If Reddit removed all politics + social issues from the feed today, a lot of their political operatives disguised as moderators would be out of a job.
I don't think I agree about reddit being fixable in a single night, but I'd agree that it could be made tolerable. Just that it'd be likely for similar problems to come back afterwards.
I'll interpret this favorably, but I want to point out that it will sound suspicious to others here. I'm sure you've seen some online spaces get dominated by some one-sided politics alongside claims that amount to "your ideas are political, but my ideas are moral".
Specific example. I was actually a bit alarmed when I stopped by the gaming .win, because I've had it ingrained in me from reddit that every gaming space that openly declares "no politics" will not implement the rule fairly. Reading the actual threads there afterwards, however, I did not notice evidence of such a corruption.
Back to the idea of fixing reddit, a great motion towards that end would be ensuring that all rules are applied fairly. But the nature of a ruleset is to bind its subjects, so it organically attracts bad actors who wish to place others beneath them. If you could conjure some AI supermod to eliminate that human element, the bad actors would just be pushed to the next softest target. I will not suggest attempting a purge like they have done with us, as it solves little and breeds conflict. Merely preventing the highest tiers of power from becoming compromised could be enough in the long term, but that in itself is not a simple feat.
I think it'll be fine. Powermods will end up being a thing again, but that only matters long term when the users are denied the opportunity to pack up and make a new camp. It'd be interesting if some sort of system were attempted to try to counter the phenomenon, but I won't get my hopes up.
I'm sure we'll end up repeating a lot of dumb stuff that happened on reddit. Just so long as it doesn't get totally wrecked like they did, it should be okay. I don't want to see shit like shadowbanning, bots checking post history for naughty words, scripts that auto-ban users from one section because they made a post in another section, groups dedicated to harassing neighbors, etc.
And yeah, it's sad, but I know schizo posters are real. I try to talk them down occasionally but it doesn't seem to help. But letting them run their own little camp? That should be no problem. Who could they bother there, the 4 people that follow them? I'd even abide my own enemies a place to gather as long as they keep to themselves.
The report screen implies that false/frivolous reports are punishable. Do you know if that is the case? The mods would probably need a record of who reported what for this to be possible. I think that sounds fine. If a mod starts using it for bias, the admins should be willing to step in.
Actually, I'd be tempted to force reports to be public. "snitches get stitches" should only become a serious issue if the group has a problem with their ruleset. Maybe only test it in one community to see how it goes.
As far as a takeover, it could happen right now just by the wrong people worming their way into positions of power. So the admins already must be ready to deal with a takeover.
I don't agree that user created .wins would make that worse. They don't need a .win to organize and plan attacks, they can just use discord for that. It could cause some other problems, though, so I'd be fine if there was some kind of test or investigation for every attempted .win creation - preferably something handled manually by the admins and the details not being publicly disclosed so it would be very hard to cheat (if it were something dumb like post karma, that's really easy to pump with bots).
You were made by a political group wanting somewhere to discuss their ideas. Without them, or rather us, this site wouldn't be what it is today.
Own it.
Oh hey man, I didn't know you hung around here.
It seems to be a running pattern. Maybe people weren't meant for free speech.
More specifically, most people, if not all, are completely untrustworthy with any amount of power over whether someone is allowed to speak their mind or not. It's why having a shifting selection of people who make rules and enforce laws was so important; no one person would be able to entrench themselves in a position of ruling over a class of people, instead of representing them. We see where that's ended up, however.
TL;DR; I want a progressive version of reddit but like the 90s version of progressive not the 20s version of progressive.
looooooooooool, he's the pebbleyeet "the democrats are the real transphobes" comic.
I don't see that at all.
Some people just want a place to exchange ideas not being censored, without being flooded by crypto-Nazis who want to make everything about the nefarious Joooz.
The bad drives out the good, because very few people will want to join a forum where most people are whining about an ethnic group, and not intelligently at that.
That is self defeating. If you want a place where you aren't censored then that implies that no one is censored- otherwise you are censored but its okay somehow because you didn't want to express those ideas anyway. And as an example on the Jew hate subject where do you draw the line? I don't hate Jews. I don't think Jews deserve hate. But I do notice. I'm a bit of a noticer. On which side of noticing do you draw the line?
I would like that. The problem is that any place that allows free speech, attracts a significant contingent of the 'dregs of society' who are not allowed to express their views in any other place. They swarm any free speech community and wreck it with their BS.
If they were not swarming such places and trying to dominate them, or trying to turn them int recruiting stations/another Stormfront, there would not be a problem.
We live in the world there is, not in the world we wish to have. And the reality is that no one wants to post in a place where 80% of users blame the Jews for everything. So you can either commit suicide to stick to ossified principle, or you can argue that principle is not a suicide pact. And I am firmly of the latter. (I'd have a much greater objection if these people had anything of value to contribute, which is almost never the case. It's constant meme'ing, insinuation, and generic nonsense, almost no intelligent argument to see.)
I think we all know that Jews are over-represented among 'problematic' people. That doesn't mean that any thread where someone has a Jewish name has to be made a discussion about how nefarious Jews are, or with BS like 'oy vey' and 'STOP NOTICING THINGS'.
If you want to create an intelligent thread to have a discussion about it, that is of course always welcome. But the abovementioned BS just ruins a forum.
I'm finding it difficult to argue since I made basically the same argument in the lolbertarian thread. I would drop the idea of "ideas not being censored" thing altogether because it isn't what you want, and you may be right not to want it, but saying you want it when you don't is going to make it hard to formulate a real plan. You can't get what you want if you don't admit to yourself what you want. Do you ever read Curtis Yarvin? He's just wrote an essay that seems relevant to the conversation https://graymirror.substack.com/p/censorship-a-21st-century-approach .
I don't know the name, but I'll look at it.
Not wanting to censor ideas is different from being OK with a group of people trying to hijack a place. Imagine if a bunch of communists decided "hey, this is a free speech place, let's swarm and take it over". Then just spam everything with Stalin quotes and downvote the rest us. Would you like that? Neither would I. This place is about Gamergate, which is resistance to unethical journalism, PC, SJ and censorship, not a recruiting ground for people's unrelated agendas.
I understand the intent is different, but the action is the same. Censor isn't an intent it's an action. To quote the article I linked, 'Censor is just Roman for “moderator.”'
I am pretty sure it means judge (note the actor suffix -or). Quite a specific sort of judge - namely the one appointed every five years, serving for 18 months, who would judge (censere) who did and did not belong in the Senate.
Regardless, preservation is the highest good of any community. That is why we impose totalitarian speech restrictions on the subreddit, because otherwise the Reddit admins will ban us. The calculus is that it is better to have a subreddit with these restrictions, but with generally free discourse otherwise, than to have none at all.
Here as well. How on earth can you let outsiders swarm and take over this place, and drive out the people for whom it was created?
Now, if 'censor' means 'moderator', or if we want to assume that it does, then any action taken is censorship. Even removing spam. So it does not seem like a very useful and productive idea.
You know you can say rockthrow's name, right?
"WHY CAN'T THIS BE JUST LIKE FACEBOOK?"
They fear our ideas.
It's a shitty situation and he's not really wrong.
If you allow anything, the 4chan types are going to kill your site because they scare off anyone else. You simply cannot grow or have broader appeal with that kind of userbase. It's also hard to tell whether these are genuine people or lefty larpers/trolls who try to kill your site by spamming shit they know is going to get you Voated.
On the other hand, if you start moderating, the question becomes "where does it stop?".
The other side of the coin is by seeking the broader appeal you neuter yourself but still get demonized anyway (see GOP). Many such cases.
I see both sides but no easy compromise. There's a bunch of possibilities, at least, but trying any of them practically denies the option to try the rest.
The current trajectory makes the goal clear enough, at least: make reddit v2. We'll have to wait and see how well the admins understand why reddit failed.
"Remember, it is illegal for you to look at these dot wins. It's different for the media. That's why everything you're learning about this, you're learning from us."
so just like reddit, they turn r/all into r/some
I'm honored.
That would be the choice of the mods or sub.win, not something foisted on them by admins and cucked “powerusers” in an attempt at “containment”
This place is too small to be worth targeted by political actors.
I do think there's some legit points made there though. There's a big difference between quality posts and just garbage presented under the guise of "you can't censor me or you are as bad as they are."
I'll take for example our resident woman hater. I don't mind him for the most part as he's consistent and you know where he stands. His post quality is typically higher, e.g. archived articles from notable sources. I said notable sources, not credible. You now have an article to discuss that's outside the context of one man's opinion. The discussion tends to stay fairly good on these posts, excluding some of the bickering with AoV at times, but even then that's entertaining and not leftist quality drivel.
I think what this /all post might be getting at is the influx of low quality garbage is bringing things down. Posts of either the: "Look I made a collage, agree with me totally or I will rail off personal attacks at you." or "Here's my opinion! I am totally right, come see if your dick is as big as mine by submitting your statement of total agreement. I bet it's not because I am the biggest of all!" don't really provide much. They devolve to nothing but a slew of personal attacks most of the time if they draw any attention at all. I also don't understand what I'm supposed to get out of some of these posts anyway. They are providing me very little educational value and zero useful intel.
I tend to avoid the latter category. I come here for fun, to educate myself, have good discussion, occasionally bitch about things and blow off steam, etc. I have no desire to make sure I measure up, and if I wanted to bicker I would have more fun screwing with leftists. Do I want to censor it, not really, but do I wish it would go away, yes. Do I think it drives others away, yes.
Are they wrong though? That post is pretty on the mark from my experience. Any alternative to reddit becomes full of edgelords and LARPers who push everyone away and the rapidly declining userbase becomes a circlejerk of tards.
Look at consoomproduct/win, it's just 'The Jews' and 'I hate women'. This place is largely the same as well. There were more rational people on KiA2 but not so much now. It's easy to tell it's LARPers because the only threads are edgelord posts and memes. Any post about not consooming is dead. Any post about lifting, gardening, or doing literally anything productive, is dead. The only threads like that that get replies are reading threads, and it's always the same people trying to tell each other that they're reading shit like Ayn Rand. Which again, it's easy to tell they're not because they bring up the same books every time, no one finishes a book, and they don't actually talk about what they like/dislike. They just say they're reading it and then that thread dies too. No one wants to admit they're reading shit like Tom Clancy or Clive Cussler, if they're reading anything at all.
It's the same when anything is created that promotes free speech. It's immediately filled with child porn. Then argument breaks out about how it doesn't count because they're just cartoons. Regardless of your stance, it is considered child porn depending on what country you're in. These people are expecting the site owners/admin to facilitate illegal activity and risk jail time because they can't just jack off to normal porn.
Same when they cried about Parler giving information to the FBI. Like it was a surprise. No shit they give information to the FBI, illegal activity is still illegal. Parler isn't offering to be your host of terrorism and shit. "Don't worry bros, I'll go to prison on your behalf, you go shoot up a government building... IN MINECRAFT LOL". And I'm talking actual terrorism, not shit like a woman recieving jail time for saying the Jews need to get over the Holocaust or people protesting a clearly rigged election.
I digress, but these sites end up becoming the same as Reddit. The extreme userbase drives normal people and actual discussion away. If people wanted actual discussion the site wouldn't even have an upvote/downvote system that allows people to 'disagree' without adding anything. Or discourages discussion because people are scared of being downvoted. "I'm not scared lol" Psychologically you're influenced by the voting system, once a few votes either way have passed, the rest will follow. This is how the front page of reddit is controlled.
I hate SJWs as much as the next guy, but these sites have a problem, and that problem is that the userbase makes them unsuable for everyday people. And as much as you say you don't want normies, normies are what keeps social media going. You need them. The only difference was that these sites were supposed to have mods weren't SJW control freaks. But the userbase just shits all over it by being spergs incapable of forming one intelligent thought between them. And said spergs either attack or ignore anyone that isn't also a sperg.
But then modern 4chan is the same. Any attempt at discussion is met with seethe, tranny, dilate, shill, filtered, or people just start posting porn and hijack the thread. It's boring, it's tiring to see over and over, and these sites will die because the people who use it can't get their shit together. These people hate self improvement as much as SJWs and they are too focused on being victims, the same as SJWs.
What's worse is that from what I've seen of age discussion, it's not even kids. It's people in their late 20s-mid 30s who just never grew up.
Because anyone softer doesn't need an alternative. They could just stay on reddit because a small amount of self-censoring will suffice.
KIA1 on reddit is a "true/good liberal" shithole, while KIA2 was founded mostly on the backs of people banned from KIA1 for being too extreme or having bad opinions. And then any of our "softer" people on KIA2 either aren't committed enough to join a whole different website, or just moved on because it wasn't a deeply held fight for them.
No, most people expect them to not be morally hypocritical about it. If it was entirely legal based, they would say that. Instead they often use it as a position to soapbox about how everyone is a pedo or that all porn is evil. Most people would understand the rock/hard place problem of it, instead they turn it into a "my principles only count until its what I dislike."
These are true problems, I won't disagree. But these are problems because most people sat on their asses and let it progress so far that you have to share your space with a Nazi and borderline criminal to even speak. To pretend there is some mystical compromise where "we keep out the riffraff so the normies will flock in!" is pure utopian fallacy.
We lost this "culture war" numerous times over already. This is the consequence of that.
Sure, normies are what keeps social media going. They're also why anyone with two neurons to rub together fucking hates social media, because normies turn them into... well just go look at any social media. Facebook, or le peddit's front page, would be shit even without all the pedo tranny jannies powertripping and calling anyone who isn't one of them a nazi, I mean have you ever been to r/funny, or r/atheism, or literally any facebook page? It's not just the internet janitors that make these subs horrendous, most of the blame is solely on the users themselves.
If I wanted to share a forum with my grandma, I'd be on Facebook. I suggest you do exactly that if that's what you're looking for.
In the meantime, there's a certain discussion board about agriculture in New Zealand which is booming in both user count and amount of content, much of it excellent quality, without cucking to any corporations. The forum and its users are completely unrepentant and the owner has zero chance of making it "the next big thing" and selling it to a corporation, because no investor would ever touch it due to its reputation - and it's much better than any mainstream website, precisely because of this. Anyone new either understands what the community is about and fits in, or gets chased out and possibly doxed. It's the anti-normie forum and it's great.
There are more, lesser known ones like that. What they all have in common is that they don't apologize, they don't grovel, and the people running them aren't interested in making a ton of money by normiefying them.
This isn't something unique to internet forums and social networks, either. Remember the endless amazing tiny game studios that just did their thing and made games they wanted to make, and they were amazing? Remember when they got bought by megacorps and turned into shit? Remember when every PC gamer waited with bated breath for the next Blizzard game?
TL;DR
Anyone who is still a "normie" at this point is an NPC.
Sorry grandma is programmed by MSM.
For saying there was no Holocaust to get over. "She asserted that the gas chambers were not 'homicidal,' but used 'to save lives from typhus epidemics'."
The rational people are all on the subreddit.
As for ConsoomProduct - it was always full of retards, even when it was on Reddit. Without fail, any time I had to ban someone for anti-Jewish nonsense on KiA2, he had a history on ConsumeProduct. I have no idea why, because it does not seem like it should have anything to do with the Jeeeeews.
Post Reported for: Rule 12 - Falsehoods
Post Approved: At this point, literally Doggos is in the thread, so I'd rather have you see what he's saying than simply removing the post. I need to build a contested flair or something.
Rofl “falsehoods”, it’s a link to a post by an admin.
Thanks for having a level head.
Test
Thanks for muting me cuck
I don't even think that's a feature. The site probably just slow.
Sorry for calling you a cuck.
Can you tell me what this means, from the logs:
“ 1 day ago A moderator other Graphenium “
It's okay we can still be friends.
I don't know. That seems to happen right before I approve a post.
I don't do anything before approving a post, so I wonder if it's because I approve a post, I don't see it change, refresh the page, and then re-approve it. I have had to do that a couple times.
There's nothing else for me to do besides approve a post if it's acceptable.
Have you noticed that even though my comments aren’t visible to the forum, they have 5+ downvotes? Now which part of “shills who engage in vote manipulation are pushing to keep c/conspiracies and KiA off the front page” was in any way misleading?
I didn't say it was.
Further proof that there will be no effective pushback against this latest Marxist takeover until all the civnat Boomer retards are rotting in the ground.
We are each ONE within ALL, and ALL is ONE in energy. If you comprehend this, the endless attempts to divide cannot reach your comprehension, which is why they use division in the first place...to divide the ONE from comprehending the ALL; to divide the ONE potential from comprehending ALL perceived potentiality.
Utilize inspiration over information (idols aka c/All, KiA and Conspiracies).