For boomers the WW2 narrative is their religion. Questioning it is blasphemy. You can see it in how the become performatively angry. They are terrified of appearing even slightly adjacent to anything that isn't in lockstep.
It's a foundational myth but it's inverted. Instead of your group being the heroes of the myth, they're the villains. As such it embeds the idea of eternal condemnation and shame. A very unhealthy outlook for life.
You can't scream about something that loud and that heinous without people eventually not caring, and even further than that stopping believing.
Its like a girl who constantly cries about being abused or raped. After the 3rd time she brings it up to win an argument or get out of something you start thinking either she is openly lying to you, massively exaggerating, or is the problem in the first place.
Either way, basically no one alive today was a part of the Holocaust, and we are quickly approaching the point of people's parents not either. So few have much claim to the victimhood unless they are trying to manipulate.
Whites cry for other races except the races that israel decides to genocide like Palestinians apparently. At least that's how it is with all the pro israel White people who fully believe the holocaust narrative yet will have no sympathy for Palestinians. Those boomers who believe in the holocaust narrative also cheer for israel to genocide Palestinians as well
No it isn't. What's scary is how few of Gen Z believe freedom of speech is a good thing. How many of them think "hate speech" should be a crime. How many of them think the constitution is an outdated document. Etc.
The holocaust was very real, but it has absolutely been exaggerated. Look at how they pretend Jan 6th was an insurrection, and we have the whole thing on video.
It honestly just needs a pretty simple refresh to account for modern technology and some clarifications on absolute freedoms and who they should apply to.
I've airways thought the bill of rights should be called something a little more clear. Namely, the bill of things the government is not allowed to make laws on
Actually well said. The use of euphemisms is highly problematic in a legal document and should be as clear as possible, even though the intention of the original authors is quite clear for someone without ulterior motives.
I've seen a complete rewrite that worked. But regardless. Failed state is failed state. If the constitution couldn't prevent it, the document is a failure. Not good enough.
It was neutered from the beginning and has does slowly ever since
Young Leftists hate the Jews over their treatment of Palestinians.
Young conservatives hate globalists and then they come to realize that a lot of globalists are Jewish and use the Holocaust as a bludgeoning tool against anyone who is opposed to globalism.
Not everyone here hates them for the right reasons.
Baby steps at this point.
Anyone not following their narrative is a good start.
Young Leftists hate the Jews over their treatment of Palestinians.
Young leftists hate Israel because they view Israelis as being 'whites' who 'oppress' 'browns'.
Young rightists hate Israel because they realize that Israelis are majority darker-skinned, and they don't recognize the rest of them as 'white' anyway.
Young rightest hate israel for many reasons and you purposely ignore all that and come up with the most shallow answer of "they hate israelis cause they are brown" purposely ignoring what right wing people who dont like israel have actually said
its really as bad as the propaganda you guys use against nazis saying that "nazis hated people without blonde hair and blue eyes"
How about the fact that they subvert their “allies”? Or do you have no issue with AIPAC/ADL/Epstain/mossad controlling American politics? As a eurofag invader I would wager you don’t, but this way I can get you on the record.
How about the fact that they subvert their “allies”?
Give three examples.
Or do you have no issue with AIPAC/ADL/Epstain/mossad controlling American politics?
I'd like to see your evidence for "Mossad controlling American politics". And the first two? Lobbies of American citizens, not 'Israel'. Yeah, lobbies are bad. Shocker.
As a eurofag invader
Imagine crying about Israel to someone whose taxes go to Gaza. Funny how that is foreign aid you don't have a problem with.
As much as I find your presence aggravating at times, I do appreciate having a leftist on this board who isn't just trolling and shitposting 24/7 and instead just provides consistently bad takes that they genuinely believe.
I don't mean tanned, I mean proper darker skinned - the Mizrahi Jews from Arab countries aren't nearly as fair as the Ashkenazi variety you are familiar with.
Nazi has become so diluted of a word now that they can't relate it to the original historical setting so they think everything around it including the Holocaust is as overblown as today.
They're at the rebellious ages so are rebelling against the authoritarian left and establishment including the ones using the Holocaust as a bludgeon to why we need to do certain thing.
It's almost as if the people who lived through that era, and in many cases witnessed things firsthand, have different impressions than people born 50 years later.
And yes, I do think the numbers are probably inflated, and yes I do think that the Holocaust is still used as cudgel to bludgeon nationalists and Europeans and Christians and yes I think it's annoying that every school kid in America has to read the Diary of Anne Frank and Night and no, I don't think the fact that a bunch of German fucks going genocidal is an excuse to take land from the Muslim and Christian Arabs of the Levant, but idea that the Holocaust is a "myth" is ludicrous.
The generation that believes in the holocaust are not the ones that lived in that era. They are the children of those that live in that era and they are scared of believing that their parents fought on the wrong side. Also Brother Nathanael is a jew who converted to Christianity and he often calls out the jews and he doesnt believe the holocaust happened. He said when he was a kid growing up in a jewish family, he never even heard of the holocaust
Eh, the way to see that the holofrost is, indeed, a hoax, is to look solely at the engineering (especially of Auschwitz). That is, forget Hitler, Eichmann and even the jews and just look at how it was allegedly carried out.
If you do that, it takes about five minutes to see that it's a hoax. (if engineering is foreign to you, then you might not grasp the point, though -- I've led non-engineers through it, and they all understand; also, keep in mind that I'm not talking about 'prussian blue' here).
People get caught up in Nuremberg etc. But signed confessions may/may not be extracted by force, especially under the rules of Nuremberg. I mean, if someone came around with a baseball bat, I'd probably sign any confession.
But boy, once you see through the hoax, you really see through it! It's like if you break up with a bi-polar girlfriend, and then you remember the 100+ times where it was obvious that she was bi-polar, but you just didn't want to think about it.
Boomers are the children of the ones that fought in ww2. They grew up with stories of how their parents were heroes who fought the evil axis. And that's all they saw on the media also . Try to tell them anything else and they cant handle it.
Age group alone doesn't mean much considering just how far back these demographs go alongside a host of other social issues such as ethnic makeup, prior habitation locations, and someone probably far more important given other matters education.
USA education has become a meme over the last few decades that the kids going through school are coming out stupider than previous classes, so whether or not they even know about the matter at hand here will be a big part of how they respond to the questionnaire.
The fact the term used in the tweet is "Americans" only compounds this because it create a single group that will be raise and lower actual values significantly when more than just age is looked at, but then looking at and reporting on things such as racial PoVs probably isn't in the interests of those looking to continue talking about this.
I saw a lot of counternarrative posts recently on Twitter about Auschwitz having a swimming pool/movie theater/arts theater/maternity ward/orchestra, library etc.
For heterodox people pushing that the camps weren't as bad as history tells us, what is their ultimate position?
That less died than reported?
That industrial scale extermination didn't happen at all?
Jewish cultural legacy is one of entitlement, subversion, and grievance. Its not a criticism. Same way that the American soul is one of humiliation and spite, it just is.
The Holocaust was a white culture recognizing the incompatibility of thay culture with its own, rejecting it, and what happened after.
Here's the critical piece. The narrative of Nazis is borderline mystical. They're suddenly for no reason at all arrival. Their magical instant mind control that dies with Hitler, their clockwork industrial perfection in efficiency and universal application of policy to rival mcdonalds in the fucking 40s.
What's the point? The Nazis rejected jews and wanted them gone. They attempted deportation which failed, they switched to concentration. Now what? Some were probably murdered by the camps staffed by people who hated them due to the above. Others starved because low priority people starve in war. And some were bombed by the Allies.
In the aftermath there is not SINGLE interested party who wants a nuanced conclusion. Europe wants somebody to blame, the Allies want a cover for their atrocities, the Jews want land and power. The Germans want to wash their hands as quickly as possible. Every single group has a vested interest in
Blaming Germany for everything
Germany having acted as evilly as possible.
The Nazis being both pure evil, and absolutely magnetic so the Germans can put it all behind them with minimal punishment.
These three goals directly incentivize maximizing the holocaust in terms of both intent and scale.
We end up with a Climate Change situation where the number has changed over and over to always make sure Jews juuuuust eek out to be the majority of casualties.
What's the point? The Nazis rejected jews and wanted them gone. They attempted deportation which failed, they switched to concentration. Now what? Some were probably murdered by the camps staffed by people who hated them due to the above. Others starved because low priority people starve in war. And some were bombed by the Allies.
So in this version, there's deaths in the camps from neglect and general wartime hardships, but no systematic gas chambers?
Is there still forced labor?
So in this narrative, Jews were literally being concentrated in areas but with no further plan while the war was still going other than segregation?
I'm asking these questions in good faith, trying to understand the more nuanced "Holocaust denier" labeled position.
I tried to find some of the "Auschwitz was full of amenities" posts on Twitter, but could only find this one. They may have been memoryholed.
Are you aware of the Japanese internment camps in America? Describe for us what you think they would have looked like 1-2 years after all American rail and supply lines are destroyed and the troops have been pushed back further inland. That’s how many picture Germany’s interment camps.
The North American POW and internment camps are a good counterexample of systems set up without the express purpose of genocide. POW camps also had some forms of forced labor AFAIK.
But again, is this the ultimate position that some Holocaust critics are arguing from?
That there were late war deaths of Jews from neglect and general disarray, but no actual systematic industrial scale genocide program?
Or that there was some but not as much as generally accepted?
A few bad egg camp/rogue commamders?
That Jewish extermination wasn't top-level Nazi party/command policy?
Frankly it depends on the person and the evidence that individual has seen and studied.
It’s similar to 9/11 - there is an “official narrative”, but that has had so many holes poked through it all we really know for sure is that it is far from the “real” story.
My biggest take away from the discussion can be boiled down by the old Norm Macdonald bit:
It says here in this history book that luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?
Frankly? I've no fucking clue what IS. But I know what it fucking isn't.
It's hard to get people to exterminate others. The "authority tells you to shock people" experiment is bullshit. It's hard to do. You can say a group deserves extermination and even convince people It's true, but getting those people to in lockstep achieve unheard of efficiency in something it usually takes decades of conditioning to convince somebody to do once.....
Then come the practical questions. Wooden doors. Magic furnaces. Magical chemical synthesis.
And in the end every new fact just happens to show that every atrocity against the German people and army was wholey justified, and now we get to vaporize entire cities because we're the good guys.
Put a shorter way. The exact same people who maintain the Holocaust at maximum and make questioning it illegal are the ones who call fighting ages, male economic migrants "terrified refugees" and will hold an infant in smoke to get a good photo op.
What's the point? The Nazis rejected jews and wanted them gone. They attempted deportation which failed, they switched to concentration. Now what? Some were probably murdered by the camps staffed by people who hated them due to the above. Others starved because low priority people starve in war. And some were bombed by the Allies.
Everyone killed Jews except the Nazis. These Nazis are some real big-time humanitarians.
In the aftermath there is not SINGLE interested party who wants a nuanced conclusion.
You want a 'nuanced conclusion'?
the number has changed over and over to always make sure Jews juuuuust eek out to be the majority of casualties.
More inhabitants of the USSR were murdered than Jews. And the USSR put emphasis on its people's suffering during World War II over anything that had been done to the Jews. Ironically, you are following the communist narrative. Then again, you have no idea what you're even saying.
OK, that's good, maybe you thought it was so obvious that you didn't need to specify. What it sounded like to me was the way I 'obtusely' expressed it. Nice that I was wrong.
I'd like an accurate one as opposed to the cartoon that you carry water for.
Great. Read any of the authoritative works of World War II history. They are nuanced and accurate. In fact, a significant school of historians has argued that the Nazis weren't totalitarian and repressive against the German population (e.g. Hans Mommsen). You know why? Because they wanted to argue that ordinary Germans are also to blame for the Nazi tyranny.
Camp casualties you numbskull Nobody gives a shit about the soviets.
I think the death numbers are likely inflated and that the event is exaggerated in order to use it as the building block of the current globalist world order.
Whenever any right wing politician is being considered, they quickly smear him as the next Hitler.
Whenever any powerful Jew is even slightly criticized, they can evoke the Holocaust as a golden shield to end the conversation.
A lot of globalist elites happen to be Jewish and they sadly do this all the time.
This creates hatred towards innocent Jewish people who have done nothing wrong.
I personally have nothing against the Jewish people as a whole. I know many good and decent Jewish people and I wish nothing but good things for them.
The problem is that the globalist elites are disproportionately Jewish and they use their background and the Holocaust narrative as a shield to push their agenda.
The Holocaust narrative has always been used to weaken right wing nationalism.
I personally don't care at all when it comes to debating details about the actual event itself.
Weakening the elite globalist narrative is all I care about
Whenever any powerful Jew is even slightly criticized, they can evoke the Holocaust as a golden shield to end the conversation.
I've never seen them respect this when it is a powerful Jew who gives money to Republicans. The same people who bristle at any mention of George Soros as 'anti-semitism' always have in their history numerous attacks on Sheldon Adleson.
They also called attacks on Tom Steyer (who is a Christian albeit a phony one) anti-semitic.
Basically, criticizing rich Democratic donors is anti-semitism whether or not they're Jewish, but criticizing rich Republican donors is not only fine but mandatory.
In The Gulag Archipelago, the author tells a story about a friend of his that was sent to the Nazi camps, was interrogated and possibly tortured for info, and then let go. It seems to him that they were mostly holding cells for prisoners and anything else is exaggerated
If industrial scale extermination were the goal, they would have simply left the cattle car doors locked for the three days it takes to die from dehydration, instead of wasting time and money building camps while short on resources. The official narrative is simply full of plot holes and hard to believe.
That's the critical meme to me. The narrative see-saws between "ruthless insanely perfect efficiency is the onlyvway they pulled this part off" and "they did this part as inefficiently as possible for no reason"
Irrespective of the factual nature of it, I don't think it's at all reasonable to deny that the Holocaust is a Myth, in the sense of "a story of central significance to a culture." I'm not sure there's anything more universally important across western culture than the Holocaust, to the point where questioning it will get you thrown out of "polite society" on either side of the political aisle faster than calling someone a nigger.
The globalists have used the Holocaust as a bludgeoning tool against all right wing parties and nationalism for decades.
Glad to see the youth are less cucked than the 65+ idiots.
For boomers the WW2 narrative is their religion. Questioning it is blasphemy. You can see it in how the become performatively angry. They are terrified of appearing even slightly adjacent to anything that isn't in lockstep.
That is why these same dumb boomers compare Biden to Hitler instead of comparing him to Stalin.
Leftist boomers call Trump Orange Hitler.
This is one of the things I hate most about the Boomers.
Their enemies are always called the next Hitler.
But will unconditionally defend and vote for Genocide Biden, who is literally providing weapons and funding to commit genocide right now.
I am a left leaning democrat (yeah, bite me), and I am voting for Trump next election in disgust (for the above reason and many other reasons).
I'm not up to date on any of my shots anymore, so I'll give it a pass.
It's a foundational myth but it's inverted. Instead of your group being the heroes of the myth, they're the villains. As such it embeds the idea of eternal condemnation and shame. A very unhealthy outlook for life.
You can't scream about something that loud and that heinous without people eventually not caring, and even further than that stopping believing.
Its like a girl who constantly cries about being abused or raped. After the 3rd time she brings it up to win an argument or get out of something you start thinking either she is openly lying to you, massively exaggerating, or is the problem in the first place.
Either way, basically no one alive today was a part of the Holocaust, and we are quickly approaching the point of people's parents not either. So few have much claim to the victimhood unless they are trying to manipulate.
It's because brown people don't give a shit. Only whites cry for other races.
Whites cry for other races except the races that israel decides to genocide like Palestinians apparently. At least that's how it is with all the pro israel White people who fully believe the holocaust narrative yet will have no sympathy for Palestinians. Those boomers who believe in the holocaust narrative also cheer for israel to genocide Palestinians as well
"tHiS iS vErY sCaRy"
No it isn't. What's scary is how few of Gen Z believe freedom of speech is a good thing. How many of them think "hate speech" should be a crime. How many of them think the constitution is an outdated document. Etc.
The holocaust was very real, but it has absolutely been exaggerated. Look at how they pretend Jan 6th was an insurrection, and we have the whole thing on video.
The constitution is a garbage neutered piece of useless garbage lol what are you on about.
It's a collection of feel good platitudes. I'm with Spooner.
I never said it's a perfect document, but it's way better than anything we'd get if they started fresh today.
It honestly just needs a pretty simple refresh to account for modern technology and some clarifications on absolute freedoms and who they should apply to.
I've airways thought the bill of rights should be called something a little more clear. Namely, the bill of things the government is not allowed to make laws on
Actually well said. The use of euphemisms is highly problematic in a legal document and should be as clear as possible, even though the intention of the original authors is quite clear for someone without ulterior motives.
maybe eliminate an amendment or two
Like I said:
I've seen a complete rewrite that worked. But regardless. Failed state is failed state. If the constitution couldn't prevent it, the document is a failure. Not good enough.
It was neutered from the beginning and has does slowly ever since
Michael Malice fan?
Never heard of.him
Normally I would view young people as completely indoctrinated by their teachers…
Now I am confused!
Young Leftists hate the Jews over their treatment of Palestinians.
Young conservatives hate globalists and then they come to realize that a lot of globalists are Jewish and use the Holocaust as a bludgeoning tool against anyone who is opposed to globalism.
Not everyone here hates them for the right reasons.
Baby steps at this point.
Anyone not following their narrative is a good start.
Young leftists hate Israel because they view Israelis as being 'whites' who 'oppress' 'browns'.
Young rightists hate Israel because they realize that Israelis are majority darker-skinned, and they don't recognize the rest of them as 'white' anyway.
Young rightest hate israel for many reasons and you purposely ignore all that and come up with the most shallow answer of "they hate israelis cause they are brown" purposely ignoring what right wing people who dont like israel have actually said
its really as bad as the propaganda you guys use against nazis saying that "nazis hated people without blonde hair and blue eyes"
It has a nice symmetry to it. If there were a 'white' country kicking ass and keeping Muslims out the way Israel is, folks would be cheering.
I've not seen any logical criticisms of Israel from the right, so I'm being generous.
How about the fact that they subvert their “allies”? Or do you have no issue with AIPAC/ADL/Epstain/mossad controlling American politics? As a eurofag invader I would wager you don’t, but this way I can get you on the record.
Give three examples.
I'd like to see your evidence for "Mossad controlling American politics". And the first two? Lobbies of American citizens, not 'Israel'. Yeah, lobbies are bad. Shocker.
Imagine crying about Israel to someone whose taxes go to Gaza. Funny how that is foreign aid you don't have a problem with.
USS Liberty, Oscar Seborer / Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, and jeffey epstain
What does the “i” in aipac stand for again you fucking shill? Who do the adl protect? The answer in both cases is not “americans”. Shocker.
Yeah thanks for admitting what you are sayanim.
And they hate jews because they realized that jews hate them.
The what?
Oh? How did they figure that out?
They found out that jews were kidnapping kids to film being raped to generate blackmail on powerful people...do you...not remember that whole thing?
As much as I find your presence aggravating at times, I do appreciate having a leftist on this board who isn't just trolling and shitposting 24/7 and instead just provides consistently bad takes that they genuinely believe.
Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks
Comment Approved: I don't see how.
I don't mean tanned, I mean proper darker skinned - the Mizrahi Jews from Arab countries aren't nearly as fair as the Ashkenazi variety you are familiar with.
Two likely reasons for the 18-39 results:
Nazi has become so diluted of a word now that they can't relate it to the original historical setting so they think everything around it including the Holocaust is as overblown as today.
They're at the rebellious ages so are rebelling against the authoritarian left and establishment including the ones using the Holocaust as a bludgeon to why we need to do certain thing.
It's almost as if the people who lived through that era, and in many cases witnessed things firsthand, have different impressions than people born 50 years later.
And yes, I do think the numbers are probably inflated, and yes I do think that the Holocaust is still used as cudgel to bludgeon nationalists and Europeans and Christians and yes I think it's annoying that every school kid in America has to read the Diary of Anne Frank and Night and no, I don't think the fact that a bunch of German fucks going genocidal is an excuse to take land from the Muslim and Christian Arabs of the Levant, but idea that the Holocaust is a "myth" is ludicrous.
It's been used as a myth for the progressive religion for decades now. That much is undeniable
The generation that believes in the holocaust are not the ones that lived in that era. They are the children of those that live in that era and they are scared of believing that their parents fought on the wrong side. Also Brother Nathanael is a jew who converted to Christianity and he often calls out the jews and he doesnt believe the holocaust happened. He said when he was a kid growing up in a jewish family, he never even heard of the holocaust
Eh, the way to see that the holofrost is, indeed, a hoax, is to look solely at the engineering (especially of Auschwitz). That is, forget Hitler, Eichmann and even the jews and just look at how it was allegedly carried out.
If you do that, it takes about five minutes to see that it's a hoax. (if engineering is foreign to you, then you might not grasp the point, though -- I've led non-engineers through it, and they all understand; also, keep in mind that I'm not talking about 'prussian blue' here).
People get caught up in Nuremberg etc. But signed confessions may/may not be extracted by force, especially under the rules of Nuremberg. I mean, if someone came around with a baseball bat, I'd probably sign any confession.
But boy, once you see through the hoax, you really see through it! It's like if you break up with a bi-polar girlfriend, and then you remember the 100+ times where it was obvious that she was bi-polar, but you just didn't want to think about it.
Boomers are the children of the ones that fought in ww2. They grew up with stories of how their parents were heroes who fought the evil axis. And that's all they saw on the media also . Try to tell them anything else and they cant handle it.
Age group alone doesn't mean much considering just how far back these demographs go alongside a host of other social issues such as ethnic makeup, prior habitation locations, and someone probably far more important given other matters education.
USA education has become a meme over the last few decades that the kids going through school are coming out stupider than previous classes, so whether or not they even know about the matter at hand here will be a big part of how they respond to the questionnaire.
The fact the term used in the tweet is "Americans" only compounds this because it create a single group that will be raise and lower actual values significantly when more than just age is looked at, but then looking at and reporting on things such as racial PoVs probably isn't in the interests of those looking to continue talking about this.
I saw a lot of counternarrative posts recently on Twitter about Auschwitz having a swimming pool/movie theater/arts theater/maternity ward/orchestra, library etc.
For heterodox people pushing that the camps weren't as bad as history tells us, what is their ultimate position?
That less died than reported?
That industrial scale extermination didn't happen at all?
That these camps were simply holding facilities?
Jewish cultural legacy is one of entitlement, subversion, and grievance. Its not a criticism. Same way that the American soul is one of humiliation and spite, it just is.
The Holocaust was a white culture recognizing the incompatibility of thay culture with its own, rejecting it, and what happened after.
Here's the critical piece. The narrative of Nazis is borderline mystical. They're suddenly for no reason at all arrival. Their magical instant mind control that dies with Hitler, their clockwork industrial perfection in efficiency and universal application of policy to rival mcdonalds in the fucking 40s.
What's the point? The Nazis rejected jews and wanted them gone. They attempted deportation which failed, they switched to concentration. Now what? Some were probably murdered by the camps staffed by people who hated them due to the above. Others starved because low priority people starve in war. And some were bombed by the Allies.
In the aftermath there is not SINGLE interested party who wants a nuanced conclusion. Europe wants somebody to blame, the Allies want a cover for their atrocities, the Jews want land and power. The Germans want to wash their hands as quickly as possible. Every single group has a vested interest in
Blaming Germany for everything
Germany having acted as evilly as possible.
The Nazis being both pure evil, and absolutely magnetic so the Germans can put it all behind them with minimal punishment.
These three goals directly incentivize maximizing the holocaust in terms of both intent and scale.
We end up with a Climate Change situation where the number has changed over and over to always make sure Jews juuuuust eek out to be the majority of casualties.
Watch American Krogan's pieces on Biosbock.
So in this version, there's deaths in the camps from neglect and general wartime hardships, but no systematic gas chambers?
Is there still forced labor?
So in this narrative, Jews were literally being concentrated in areas but with no further plan while the war was still going other than segregation?
I'm asking these questions in good faith, trying to understand the more nuanced "Holocaust denier" labeled position.
I tried to find some of the "Auschwitz was full of amenities" posts on Twitter, but could only find this one. They may have been memoryholed.
https://twitter.com/MarkFletcherOAC/status/1749558608872771742#m
Are you aware of the Japanese internment camps in America? Describe for us what you think they would have looked like 1-2 years after all American rail and supply lines are destroyed and the troops have been pushed back further inland. That’s how many picture Germany’s interment camps.
The North American POW and internment camps are a good counterexample of systems set up without the express purpose of genocide. POW camps also had some forms of forced labor AFAIK.
But again, is this the ultimate position that some Holocaust critics are arguing from?
That there were late war deaths of Jews from neglect and general disarray, but no actual systematic industrial scale genocide program?
Or that there was some but not as much as generally accepted?
A few bad egg camp/rogue commamders?
That Jewish extermination wasn't top-level Nazi party/command policy?
Frankly it depends on the person and the evidence that individual has seen and studied.
It’s similar to 9/11 - there is an “official narrative”, but that has had so many holes poked through it all we really know for sure is that it is far from the “real” story.
My biggest take away from the discussion can be boiled down by the old Norm Macdonald bit:
Frankly? I've no fucking clue what IS. But I know what it fucking isn't.
It's hard to get people to exterminate others. The "authority tells you to shock people" experiment is bullshit. It's hard to do. You can say a group deserves extermination and even convince people It's true, but getting those people to in lockstep achieve unheard of efficiency in something it usually takes decades of conditioning to convince somebody to do once.....
Then come the practical questions. Wooden doors. Magic furnaces. Magical chemical synthesis.
And in the end every new fact just happens to show that every atrocity against the German people and army was wholey justified, and now we get to vaporize entire cities because we're the good guys.
Awfully lucky ain't it.
Put a shorter way. The exact same people who maintain the Holocaust at maximum and make questioning it illegal are the ones who call fighting ages, male economic migrants "terrified refugees" and will hold an infant in smoke to get a good photo op.
Everyone killed Jews except the Nazis. These Nazis are some real big-time humanitarians.
You want a 'nuanced conclusion'?
More inhabitants of the USSR were murdered than Jews. And the USSR put emphasis on its people's suffering during World War II over anything that had been done to the Jews. Ironically, you are following the communist narrative. Then again, you have no idea what you're even saying.
I know you're obtuse but come on.
Nazis killed a lot of jews.
I'd like an accurate one as opposed to the cartoon that you carry water for.
Camp casualties you numbskull Nobody gives a shit about the soviets.
OK, that's good, maybe you thought it was so obvious that you didn't need to specify. What it sounded like to me was the way I 'obtusely' expressed it. Nice that I was wrong.
Great. Read any of the authoritative works of World War II history. They are nuanced and accurate. In fact, a significant school of historians has argued that the Nazis weren't totalitarian and repressive against the German population (e.g. Hans Mommsen). You know why? Because they wanted to argue that ordinary Germans are also to blame for the Nazi tyranny.
These are ordinary people.
I always forget subtlety is foreign to you lol
Putting out an incoherent mess is not the same thing as being subtle, but feel free to continue believing that.
I mean I explicitly said Nazis murdered people in my first post and your response was "sO NaxxiSs neVer KiLeD aNy WoN"
You can't even catch text, why would you be capable of subtext?
My position on this issue is simple.
I think the death numbers are likely inflated and that the event is exaggerated in order to use it as the building block of the current globalist world order.
Whenever any right wing politician is being considered, they quickly smear him as the next Hitler.
Whenever any powerful Jew is even slightly criticized, they can evoke the Holocaust as a golden shield to end the conversation.
A lot of globalist elites happen to be Jewish and they sadly do this all the time.
This creates hatred towards innocent Jewish people who have done nothing wrong.
I personally have nothing against the Jewish people as a whole. I know many good and decent Jewish people and I wish nothing but good things for them.
The problem is that the globalist elites are disproportionately Jewish and they use their background and the Holocaust narrative as a shield to push their agenda.
The Holocaust narrative has always been used to weaken right wing nationalism.
I personally don't care at all when it comes to debating details about the actual event itself.
Weakening the elite globalist narrative is all I care about
I've never seen them respect this when it is a powerful Jew who gives money to Republicans. The same people who bristle at any mention of George Soros as 'anti-semitism' always have in their history numerous attacks on Sheldon Adleson.
They also called attacks on Tom Steyer (who is a Christian albeit a phony one) anti-semitic.
Basically, criticizing rich Democratic donors is anti-semitism whether or not they're Jewish, but criticizing rich Republican donors is not only fine but mandatory.
In The Gulag Archipelago, the author tells a story about a friend of his that was sent to the Nazi camps, was interrogated and possibly tortured for info, and then let go. It seems to him that they were mostly holding cells for prisoners and anything else is exaggerated
If industrial scale extermination were the goal, they would have simply left the cattle car doors locked for the three days it takes to die from dehydration, instead of wasting time and money building camps while short on resources. The official narrative is simply full of plot holes and hard to believe.
That's the critical meme to me. The narrative see-saws between "ruthless insanely perfect efficiency is the onlyvway they pulled this part off" and "they did this part as inefficiently as possible for no reason"
Irrespective of the factual nature of it, I don't think it's at all reasonable to deny that the Holocaust is a Myth, in the sense of "a story of central significance to a culture." I'm not sure there's anything more universally important across western culture than the Holocaust, to the point where questioning it will get you thrown out of "polite society" on either side of the political aisle faster than calling someone a nigger.