A while ago it was brought up the joyful circumstances of numerous commentors here being married or in some other form of relationship. Some even had kids.
Question for you all, how hard is it nowadays to be in one (relationship), or get in one? The red pill media has, over the years, become very black pilled and sensationalist on the subject. Granted, with ever increasing feminism and a decrease in tolerance for male behavior I have noticed it getting a lot harder out there... but ia it anywhere near as bad as they say?
While we are at it, what the hell does everyone do for fun in the real world? Prices have gone sky high in America, especially rent and housing, and over the years I have noticed less and less people go out, especially those in their 20s and 30s. I like to hike and explore so sitting at home doing nothing but play video games, read and watch tv drivers me nuts after a while. Granted, society seems less friendly and more shut in nowadays anyways. Still, there must be some clubs or whatever that people do for fun, even if not as frequently as ye olden times.
In general yes. Women have absurdly inflated expectations and men have largely given up. If you're a guy the best you can do is improve your SMV and not give up.
And on top of that as was mentioned we're in an economic depression, that WILL be much worse than a century ago. Not to mention that the left has started and is busily losing world war 3.
The United States will become a past tense in our lifetimes.
But the black pill is suicide. Giving up is the only wrong choice.
You only have four choices.
Give up and admit that dating on an individual level is hopeless because of genetics and factors outside of your control (inceldom as opposed to just being an incel who are more "blue pill" individuals who repeatedly fail in the dating market);
Manipulate the dating market to your advantage, a strategy that will fail for most men if you don't get arrested for doing it nowadays because you've (deliberately if you're selling a paid-for programme for profit) failing to acknowledge the differences between high value SMV men and average/below-average men. (PUA/"red pill"), or;
Accept that across the societal and political spectrum from feminism to traditional conservatism, the dating market and relationship structure is a result of by biology which in turn shapes culture and in turn ideology with technological advancements shaping the dating and relationship market today ("blue pill"). The "purple pill" is a mixture of this point and the last point.
Exit the dating market knowing the game is rigged against men, acknowledge the concept of biology, culture, ideology and go your own way (MGTOW);
Or you can shop in a different market that's more favorable to you.
What the "passport bros" haven't grasped yet is that as more men follow their lead, supply goes up while demand doesn't. And women in other countries now live in a connected world where feminist doctrine and dating mantra has reached them from the west. The same pressures that affect western dating have spread worldwide.
Certainly to a degree, but every culture is different, just as every market is different.
There's zero reason to stay where you are miserable.
See, I don't think this is anywhere near as narrow of a situation as you define it. Take for example your point of "genetics and factors outside your control."
You're talking about being short. Let's be real, that's what it is.
Women aren't nearly as visual creatures as men are, they're much more about status and means. That's hardwired into them regardless of NPC programming. To amplify that, men have a narrower range of physical attractiveness than women, there are less outliers in either direction. Which incidentally I suspect is why so many male celebrities look exactly the fuckin same.
This is why you see ugly mother fuckers like Russel Brandt banging Katy Perry. Because women value status and see sex as more transactional than men. He didn't marry her and she makes way more than him, but he still got a year of tapping that.
Short guys are at a disadvantage because it literally is a functional disability for a man. Hence status loss, hence hard to snag chicks.
But that doesn't mean you can't look good, keep yourself in shape, be well groomed etc. There's factors outside your control and then there's just missing out on free points.
A lot of people think you can career your way to high SMV. The problem is, a lot of what makes someone successful is also down to genes, inherited traits, personality is half genetic, wealth from your parents, IQ, even height - men six foot and over make up fourteen percent of the population but make up over half the CEO's. The halo effect where physically attractive people get preferential treatment over their unattractive peers also comes into play. People prefer being around attractive people.
There are a lot more variables at play than just merely "just work bro" easy platitudes that red pill life coaches love to say.
There are always exceptions to the rule but that doesn't invalidate the rule. For example, homosexual people exist but because we know they exist, it doesn't suddenly invalidate the concept that people are on average heterosexual. As I say, there are many variables at play. In your example, you may not consider Brand attractive but I bet there are many women who would find him physically attractive and will have traits most of us won't have. It's also why he is in the position he has been in his adult life that most of us never will.
Nothing particularly to argue with here, but Brandt looks like a raccoon and a capouchin monkey got into a fight and rolled into a cloning machine. He's ugly, even for a Britbong.
But he has self confidence. And women really can't tell the difference.
That's the problem with a lot of red pills types. They conflate alphafux and betabux, often with the intention of selling you something. A man's career doesn't do jack shit for his SMV. It does quite a bit for his RMV, but attracting women with RMV is a good way to get divorce raped. The only real advice is become Chad or don't play at all. Escorts and geomaxxing are an option for not playing at all if monk mode is unfeasible or undesirable.
6'2" tall, 210lbs, chiseled jaw, movie star hair, works in a high tech and high paying field.
With a high value woman to match. Petite and busty, Eastern European good looks, professional chef, and currently percolating our second child.
Care to try again?
Congrats (sincerely), but please tell her to stop percolating the baby lol
That's just our term lol. And thank you, she's having a much easier pregnancy by far than the first one. The first baby just wouldn't let her eat.
pics or it didn't happen, newfag
newfag is inaccurate.
I've been here longer than you. So has my wife, who actually did post pics a while back because some other dick beater decided that based, sexy women don't exist.
I’m currently single and I’d say it can be tough. They always tell me to talk to women in church but no luck there as of yet. Online dating can work I suppose but it does multiply what happens in the real world by 1000. Women get perverted messages sure, but they get a lot of legit messages and can afford to be picky. I read that guys get one response for every 100 messages which I can attest to that.
I'm 35yo. I got married and divorced in my 20s. I haven't had a relationship for about 7 years now. I haven't had sex without paying for it in 2.5 years.
I honestly expect to be single and sexless the rest of my life.
It's well passed the "just improve yourself" point. I make $150k/yr, I'm in shape, hit the gym, eat healthy, whatever. I'm not even in the ballpark. Problem is in fact my own standards. There are a lot of fat women with shitty personalities out there I could simp for and be rewarded with the grace of their fishy vag every so often. I have 0 interest in this. I like young, hot, nymphomaniacs that have a strong desire for me to put my dick in them. At 35yo, I'm well passed ever gaining access to these kinds of women because the women that meet my standards have a list of a 1000 different men who have more money, more entertaining personalities and better looks than me.
I find dating itself to be a complete waste of time and money. It's not even enjoyable. I'm at the point now where I've literally uninstalled all dating apps and I don't even put effort into trying to date anymore. I go out to try to meet new people and just try to find relationships the old fashioned way but when women my age who I find not attractive turn me down, why would I even bother trying to navigate an even more broken online dating system? It was always the same shit. Meetup, have a good convo, they ghost or didn't feel it. Rinse, repeat. Or I get catfished and don't want to call them again or I realize they aren't very sexual and require way too much effort to get into their pants. Their personalities are trash. Not worth it. If a woman is single in this society there's a damn good reason she's single and it's not to your benefit. Every single hot girl in this society is taken as soon as she's a teenager. There's very few exceptions. The supply of quality women is just way too low.
I even tried being a sugar daddy and just tried paying women but honestly, it's getting so bad out there average escorts and sugar babies want men to treat them like gold while they hardly treat the men well at all.
I'm heading to Thailand at the end of the year. That is basically my last attempt at enjoying my time with women. I pretty much hate all the women I've met my age and if I don't hate them then they either have 0 interest in me or they have so much baggage they aren't worth getting involved with.
I don't expect anything to get better in my lifetime. Even if things fix themselves, I'll be too old to enjoy it because as I keep aging, I still only find 18-25yo women attractive. I'll never be able to enjoy myself with a woman my age knowing she gave herself away when she was actually still physically attractive to other men when she was younger. I don't really find sex with ugly women enjoyable.
What do I do for fun? Nothing. I just do things to pass the time and I hope I die rather soon, tbh. Playing BG3 at the moment. Sometimes read books. Jerk off. That's about it.
You’ve never had sex without paying for it one way or another.
Bruh honestly you need to ask yourself why would any woman date or sleep with you to begin with? In your own words you say you don't put any effort into dating, hate all woman, and don't do anything for fun or have any pursuits or hobbies besides jerking off. On top of that you sound incredibly depressed and aren't doing anything to fix that.
So why would anyone want that? Like sure blame your age or society if you want but running off to Thailand isn't gonna fix the real problems your having.
No, that's okay. I already know with absolute certainty the problem isn't me, it's society. I will never change anything about myself, period. There's nothing wrong with me. Society is the problem. The fact you even suggest it's me just indicates to me, you are part of the problem.
How am I part of the problem? I'm not here writing six paragraphs on why a woman won't fuck me and saying things like "I hope I die rather soon, tbh". Society is not forcing you to think that, society is not forcing you to jerk off and do nothing for fun. These are your words and actions, not mine and you complain but then also say that you won't change anything about yourself.
There's nothing wrong with you yet no woman will sleep with you. Both things can't be true.
That is incorrect because who women will sleep with has no indication whatsoever on whether you are good or bad. In fact, arguably, women are trash; therefore, whomever women want to sleep with is likely NOT a good person. This is proven time and time again based on women's choice of men. That's why optimally, it should be the father who chooses who a woman marries not herself.
All I know is men like you are part of the problem and we'd be better off as society without men like you.
Dude you just wrote this after complaining that it takes "way too much effort" to get into some women's pants.
Yes the self reflection is just not here. From the comments he doesn't present as a "good person" yet these woman still won't sleep with him.
Where did you pull good and bad from? I'm just pointing out the fact you yourself say you're suicidal, have no hobbies or pursuits and make no efforts in dating and yet expect woman to fall in your lap, so my question again is why would they? Furthermore if life was "optimally" as you wish why would any girl's father pick you over anyone else? You still wouldn't be getting laid in that case, because any father with half a brain would want someone better for their daughter.
And again how am I part of the problem, I'm not sitting here with suicidal thoughts wasting my days jerking off. Society would be better off without men like YOU, because honestly what are YOU providing to society? How is sitting there playing BG3 with your dick in your hand advancing anything or doing anything for the world?
Why would I want to exist in a society full of people like you? It's terrible. Literally every day is torture because I have to listen to people like you with your menial understanding of anything in positions of either equal or more standing than myself. This "democracy' is terrible and the mainstream influence of our society even worse so. Our leaders are trash. The people are trash. Of course I'm suicidal. You'd have to be a retard not to be in this society.
You're right, most fathers are simps. They'd pick other simps for their daughters just like them. Just another joke. But that doesn't have to be the case. I actually think they would pick me over most other guys. Keep in mind I make $150k/yr, have a masters and am "successful" by every metric of success that men want to see in other men.
What am I providing society? It's men like men that keep society going around because I am far more productive than you are. Without men like me, this society would crumble. If every man like me did kill themselves, there would be no society to speak of.
How are you "successful" by every metric of success that men want to see in other men? You're a 35 year old man who sits around jerking off, playing videogames, blaming society for their problems and literally has to pay for sex. Who aspires to be that?
So you make $150k/yr and have a masters, so? I know plenty of men who make a third of that a year yet have loving wives and children. You have no partner, no children, you're literally going to leave behind a bank account that'll go to the society you hate so much and a unfinished BG3 save and a mountain of porn.
You say you're far more productive but also that you're suicidal and hate society so why should anyone trust anything you work on? You need to fix your problems man because I honestly don't blame any woman or person who stays clear of you.
I was in a long term relationship and have two kids. Frankly, I don't really want another.
It is literally easier to raise two kids by myself than with my ex. It's definitely easier to raise kids with a partner, but most women today are not partner material and the ones that are, are married already.
I'm open to the idea of a relationship if I find someone worthwhile, and I've been on a few dates, but I can't see the appeal of most women today. They're all take and no give and, as a single parent, I have no time for games.
One of the real mindfucks these days is women rejecting men in pursuit of the elusive 10/10. This gives men the impression that the women are somehow of better quality (why else would they be rejecting you?) In reality, these women are extremely low quality other than physical attractivness (and even then...); if you actually got a date, you would soon realize how shallow and basically useless they are.
I'm no MGTOW; I don't think this is an inherent problem with women. Rather I think almost every women has an inflated sense of self-worth to the point that they don't feel the need to provide anything to a relationship; not money, not emotional support, not even motherhood.
As for fun, these days I'm into guerilla gardening.
Probably best for your kids. I've known some people single parenting who try to go on dates, shack up etc., and it often turns into a disaster for all involved.
..Guerrila gardening?
Guerrila gardening sounds like a euphemism for setting punji traps.
I’m picturing a Monty Python skit where the lads hide in a bush and wait for an unsuspecting garden to pass by.
Planting fruits and vegetables in unused public spaces.
Not sure about relationships, looking back and looking at women in general I feel extremely lucky. Listening to single women talk about men is ridiculous.
Dating today would be horror for me.
If you plan to date, my advise be 100% upfront about expectations and who you are. If you put a girl off it is a win. Saves you a lot of stress. As for fun, I like to take on projects. Build new stuff around the yard, renovate, stuff like that. I would take up fishing but the lakes near me are off-putting, kind of filthy and to crowded. I also don't know how to fish.
If you want any sort of 'natural' relationship, you need to be in a social setting that exposes you to single women.
This isn't an automatic guarantee that anything'll happen, but it does mean that it gives you experience. Social skills are, at the end of the day, skills, and they require practice.
The problem is that such an organic avenue is fucking impossible to find. So you have to go afield and outside your comfort zones. Which can be a good thing from time to time, but depending on where you live, when 'socializing with other men and women that are also single in a setting that has firm rules so everyone knows what to do' requires you traveling atleast 50 miles one way, uh... this causes problems.
All my hobbies are either loner stuff, gaming, or complete sausage fests(or the only women there are there because of thier husbands/dad/boyfriend). I've considered taking up dancing, but no local classes are available on my free afternoons. Sad.
I've pretty much given up on the women front. Although if I'm honest there wasn't a very long time I put a ton of effort in. I'm sure back in the day of a woman at home raising kids while I go to work, I'd have been in on that. I never wanted kids for most of my life and am still pretty indifferent on that now, so dealing with today's woman just doesn't offer me any positive value. For whatever reason like the whole dream of a wife and kids just wasn't really ever there for me for the most part anyway. Perhaps at times as I get older. I'm sure someone will say I've got some sort of social disorder or am on a spectrum or something. I don't care to know honestly; I don't need any crutches anyway.
Fun stuff? I mean I play games a ton. Watch TV a little. Read about in between those two. That's just day to day stuff. I don't want to spend every evening out doing something. Otherwise? Alone stuff I work on my house, wrench on cars, some hiking, I've been working on game dev, etc. I game online some with one of my cousin's kids 2-3 times a week, occasionally my nephew, and less occasionally some friends. I'll do something more involved with friends once or twice a month. We will go camping, well sort of, it's RV camping and sometimes I just go hang out for the day (no RV myself). Occasional golf game with friends. Don't think I'm some amazing golfer either, they'd probably make videos of me on how not to play golf. I don't really do clubs and bars, but I will on rare occasion also with friends. I go visit my brother a couple times a year, my dad a couple times a year, and my mom and cousins another couple times a year. After all this I'm tired and out of time anyway, so while it doesn't seem like much it's more than enough for me.
It's interesting. I always wanted to have children. I clearly remember having a conversation in highschool where some of the guys were like "hell no, I'd never have kids" and I felt the exact opposite.
There may be no rhyme or reason behind it...just something that you're into or you're not.
Yeah who knows. It's not the easy answer of "not liking kids" either. I mean I get annoyed by little kids, but doesn't everyone a bit? Screaming like an obnoxious brat is not ever cute. I'm a wizard with teenagers though, they generally all love me. I don't mean getting walked all over by them either.
I'm weird in that I never even pursued a relationship untill recently (well after college). It kinda just fell in my lap, so I consider myself lucky.
Legally speaking, the woman has all the leverage. If she were sufficiently evil, she could destroy your entire life and take everything you own. So be extra sure if you start thinking about marriage, moving in together, etc etc.
That said, if you genuinely love her, and she genuinely loves you, there won't be any issues.
I don't think getting into a relationship is as impossible as people here (myself included) often make it out to be. Getting into a relationship that's a net positive in our lives is a different question, and if anything I think the community is too optimistic about that. I'm in the same position I think a lot of men are: If I jumped through enough hoops and dived deep enough in the dumpster I'm sure I could get something. The thing is she would be far below my SMV/RMV level, be a net negative in my life, and resent me for not being the gigachad that feminism taught her that she's entitled to. A woman at my level who would actually add value to my life is unobtainable, and she doesn't even become a possibility until she's 35+ and ran through by every Chad and Tyrone within a 200 mile radius. In other words the kind of woman that would be worth the time and effort it takes to deal with the radioactive minefield that feminism has turned dating into isn't going to be the end result of all the crap you have to put up with. I also want to live alone and don't desire children, so that saps a major motivation for dating that I would otherwise have.
I saw your other post but didn't respond.
I'm in my 40s, relationship started RIGHT before apps got huge. Wife and I met in a grad school program. Shared interests, shared classes, etc. We had chemistry, hit it off, went from there. I had gone through undergrad with exactly zero sexual female relationships. I was very much white knight nice guy friendzone, and it SUCKED. Literally incel. I kind of reinvented myself when I went to grad school, and it was good.
It took me until my late 20s to figure out how to get in shape and eat healthily (and cook), and that was huge too. I would highly encourage all men to take charge of your health and your body, starting with what you eat.
Neither wife or I are 10/10s--nor are we disgusting ham planets. I'd say we're basically just normal people. I would not have done well in the app world.
What do we like to do? A lot of hiking. Daytrip somewhere over the weekends to a lake or a beach or some trails. Nothing expensive or fancy, just being outside.
I've spent time in the past on redpill, marriedredpill, etc. I think there are pieces of very good information, but there are a lot of depressed and angry people. If you allow yourself to fall too deeply into the anger and blackpill, what's the point?
I'm not MGTOW, but I respect the position.
I worry for my Gen Alpha children.
Getting sex is almost easier than in the past.
Finding a relationship worth a damn is the hardest it has ever been.
It's "HOE-FLATION": your grandfather had to work half as hard as you do to get a girl 4x times better than what we are dealing with now.
For anyone here: If you decide to get a woman from outside the West/Globohomo sphere, do not move her to your home country. Stay in hers.
Her family will make sure that she does not fuck up the relationship (unless you are actually a fuck up) and it will keep her from being contaminated by Woke.
Disobey this rule at your own peril.
80% of the guys I knew that brought their girls to the US/Canada are now divorced yet all of the guys I know that moved to the country of the girl are still in relationships with them all these years later.
I haven't actually looked into the statistics regarding this, but it's funny that about 20 years or so ago, there was a guy I knew who flew to Mexico to get a "traditional wife" after he had been talking/meeting with her for a while. He wasn't much of a catch, though, and had been divorced twice before, I think?
Anyway, they got married in Mexico and then he made the massive mistake of flying her back to his home country. It didn't take long for her to get the "grass is greener" idea sat in her head, and shortly after she left him for someone else.
The sperges are obsessive about women, but you're touching on a big issue that usually gets ignored. Social life in general has collapsed. It's not just an issue with romance. People have fewer friends and socialize less IRL overall. You really need to build some kind of social circle. That's got a bigger chance of working than just trying to ask women out until you hit the jackpot. The lack of a social circle makes people more paranoid as well since you don't know anything about the people you are trying to date. If you have mutual friends, there is vetting that has happened through that.
For meat space activities, there's the classic bowling billiards, etc. and card and board games. Small town festivals are a bit of a hidden gem in some places. For rural areas, there's fishing, hunting, and other outdoorsy stuff. There's the odd birthday parties and such.
For years, these people insisted that they had it all figured out, that they understood women and could get you laid and help with long term relationships and even marriages. They're now terminally single and black pilled. Despite this, they have not admitted to being wrong about anything and still insist they have it all figured out. Keep that in mind as you read the rage baiting screenshots of reddit posts they base their worldview on.
I wish more people would talk about the complete collapse of social life. It's fucking terrifying and is the underlying root cause for a whole host of problems in the modern world. We need more in the way of efforts being made to correct the issue. I've been trying to do what I can in my small sphere of influence by just sending out a weekly email to try and get people together to go hiking once a week, but it's like pulling teeth to get more than one or two people to show up regularly. It's what we all need though, something where we all get together regularly to interact with one another.
As much as I hate to say it, the collapse of social life is the fault of men. In times past the men would organize groups and events (rotary, masons, etc) that would be social and help the community. Otherwise men would organize BBQ and neighborhood meetups.
We dropped our responsibilities, many with no father figure to teach them.
I tell you though, people are hungry for it if you start. I am introverted but have taught myself to organize and have gotten to the point where I throw parties where I get more people than I invited.
It can be done, but only if you make it so. The benefit as well is you can make the party what you want it to be.
I have noticed a lot of modern western people, whites and men especially, are phenomenally lazy when it comes down to social circles. Men get married, have kids, get a career, never leave the house again. And I have had the same issue setting up social things as well. Trying to get people to meet up for an event is a lot harder than it should be.
Yes, because as new information, evidence and data comes in, people who are not ideologically motivated or dogmatic in their beliefs change their mind. I've seen several "red pill" content creators adopt a more "black pill" mindset in recent times. And evolutionary psychologists also find overlap of their findings with black pill philosophy, even if they disagree fully with the men who follow that concept. And there is a reason for that, evolution, genetics and external factors outside of your control don't care about your feelings, emotions and desires. Nature is brutal and how biology functions, which in turn shapes our cultures and in turn, ideology. Such as feminism and traditional conservatism, religions and the social contract. How biology works and what informs our dating, courtship and relationship practices today primarily matches what those who are black pilled say. Feminism and traditionalism follow the same track when it comes to biology. It is what it is.
It is bad with many factors coming together to make the situation horrible. I mean it was hard then (20 years ago) but it seems impossible now. Here are some problems that I didn’t have to deal with:
Online dating was in its infancy & largely looked down upon for only the most desperate.
Cost of living was way lower so the cost of going out was negligible.
Women were still largely traditional as in they aren’t super liberals complaining where all the good men went.
Women’s expectations weren’t retarded like it is now. I mean they were creeping up sure, but the whole 666 (feet, figures, inches) was NOT standard.
Starting a new life was easier and owning property was doable.
Most importantly men & women were actively seeking each other out.
Bullshit like “monkey branching” would have easily been considered cheating.
Being a single mom was looked down upon. Especially with interracial kids.
White men were largely not under attack by society, so there was no perception of danger or prejudice.
Pre-social media; you had to have social chops. The more social you were the better off you be.
Likewise, introverts had to drag their asses out too to socialize too. This was better for everyone.
My experience mirrors what a lot of people have posted already so I'll just say this: I'm 40 and I have seen so many people, including close friends, ruin their lives with marriage and children. I have multiple friends with severely autistic sons. That was mostly because of their pill head wives though. Not to mention divorce rape, can't imaging having a bitch I now can't stand coming after my 401k. Plenty of reasons not to waste energy going after that shit. If you get lucky and get laid, enjoy it.
Normal guys can get relationships, but they usually are one sided with a woman way lower in value than them and eventually end with her monkey branching to another man within a few years.
If you want a marriage and children, you're walking blindly into a minefield. My parents were divorced 3 times before they met each other, my father's ex wife put him into 100k of credit card debt in the 1990's and then left with another man. It's much worse now, women will just destroy your life and then get praised on social media for it.
Prices going up? Start up a sports league, tabletop game group, or a non-money poker night at a bar. Evening you don’t drink, people will still come and enjoy it.
what to do for fun? explore the great outdoors and fuck. same as always.
I'll admit, I'm intrigued by the idea of geomaxxing. Seeing female nature unleashed here in the West killed any desire I had for an LTR, but going to Brazil for a good time sounds highly appealing.