I know I need to get off of FB but I got this in a Star Wars EU group I'm in and I simply asked the guy who posted it if he thinks he is saying something important? I definitely noticed a big change within the past years in certain fandoms so that isn't just my imagination. But anyways, how would y'all respond and since this is a common thing about current woke "fans" is there anything to rebut this? I know Eric July did a video a while back in regards to comic books.
Forever taking risks since TOS. FOR THE UNEDUCATED. • X-Men is about civil rights. If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get X-Men. • Black Panther is about civil rights. If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get Black Panther. • Captain America literally fought nazis. He is the embodiment of fighting the alt-right. If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get Captain America. • The Empire in Star Wars is fascist. The Rebel alliance are Anti-Fascist. If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get Star Wars. • Doctor Who was about an alien fighting for all of humanity in spite of totalitarian regimes. If you don't get that, you don't get Doctor Who. • The Punisher isn’t meant to be a role model for police or armed forces. So much so that the writers of The Punisher made him actively speak out against it in a comic. If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get The Punisher. • Deadpool is queer. He’s pansexual. Fact. If you didn’t get that you didn’t get Deadpool. • Star Trek is about equality for all genders, races and sexualities. As early as the mid-60s it was taking a pro-choice stance and defending women’s right to choose. One of its clearest themes is accepting different cultures and appearances and working together for peace. (It’s also anti-capitalist and pro-vegan). If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get Star Trek. • Superman and Wonder Woman (and a whole host of other superheroes) are immigrants. The stance of those comics is pro-immigration and pro-equality and acceptance. If you didn’t get that, you didn’t get Superman or Wonder Woman. • Stan Lee said, “Racism and bigotry are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today.” If you’re bigoted or racist, you didn’t get any of the characters Stan Lee created. • The stories we grew up with all taught us to value other people and cultures and to treasure the differences between us. Only villains were xenophobic, or sexist, or racist, or totalitarian. I can’t understand how anyone can have missed that. • If you’re upset that there’s a black Spider-Man, or a black Captain America, or a female Thor, or that Ms. Marvel is Muslim, or that Captain Marvel was pro-feminism or any of the other things right-wing “fans” say is “stealing their childhood” - you never got it in the first place. The things you claim are now “pandering to the lefties” were never on your side, to begin with. If you consider yourself a fan of these things, but you still think the LGBTQ+ community is too “in your face”, or have a problem with Black Lives Matter, or want to “take the country back from immigrants”, then you’re not really a fan at all. Geek culture isn’t suddenly left-wing... it always was. You just grew up to be intolerant. You became the villain in the stories you used to love.
Has X-Men gone out of its way to have parents, teachers, and family doctors conducting dangerous biological experiments on children to turn them into mutants, and have those people be the good guys?
Everything that makes Wakanda great; the exact same thing is considered evil in White western nations.
Star Trek? Anti-capitalist and Vegan? Make the fucking replicator, or shut the fuck up. And tolerating other cultures does not mean destroying your own.
The "anti-bigotry" preachers are by far the most bigoted people on the fucking planet, and have no place lecturing anyone on racism and bigotry.
Having an 'insert trait insert hero' or an 'insert trait insert hero' was never good storytelling, it was always lazy culture-destroying identity propaganda. That much was made clear with their inability to ever make original characters to fulfill that task.
Great point. I responded to him and the dude deleted his post. Honestly back then a “treat people how you want to be treated” message was pretty clear. Not so much now
Then it was probably a copypasta reposted for cheap virtue points. Not worth it to them if they get any pushback.
It is. It made its way around Twitter a while back. Verbatim
I’ve seen shorter variations but never any this long.
I despise how they simply take any good trait and apply it to themselves.
Even TNG which was probably the peak of woke Trek before the recent resurgence had settlers living hard lives on distant planets because clearly pod life on Earth was not good. Even then it's unclear how the Siskos kept their jam-ba-laya restaurant and the Picards their vineyard. Maybe they fill out a form to explain the historical significance of their holdings or maybe that's why they were in Star Fleet. Want to keep your bougie landholdings? Well, sign up and hope you make at least Captain.
Want that same opportunity to have fucking anything besides porn and replicator hot pockets? Well better ship out to a barren hostile planet on the border of the neutral zone where you will definitely be assimilated by the Borg or murdered by Romulans.
I suddenly have more respect for the character of Neelix. Even if he pretty much did nothing but cook and exist, HE COOKED.
Dude was Chief Morale Officer.
And no one argued his self-imposed promotion.
He is a hobbit hero. He took inedible things and made them, while not palatable, at least edible, on a food-starved and resource-zeroed mission.
Plot-twist: Earth is an anarcho-capitalist utopia, and Picard and Sisko are wealthy land barons who swashbuckle around the galaxy for fun. Their families run the vineyard/restaurant as a hobby.
Yup, having actual characters who had specific traits has never been a barrier to good writing. Benjamin Sisko being a good example - good character first, black guy a distant second.
The problem is modern writers are terrified of giving a black (or female, or gay, or, or...) character the character flaws to work around that would make them, well, a character. So you're left with the same cardboard cut-out character that fits into any of their preferred characteristics because underneath the palette swapping it's the same Mary Sue wearing a different skinsuit. That's all such a politically safe character can ever be.
Aka the Galbrush Threepwood paradox. (search it)
Even good examples of minorities in media, like Sisko, are terrible because the media companies go to extreme lengths to filter the best of the best of a minority to represent that minority. A lot of idiot leftists don't interact with blacks on a daily basis, so they see characters like Sisko on TV and think they're just like us and that leads them to making lots of mistakes of judgement.
Write a White dude, cast a Black actor, claim it's representation.
It's way worse than that. They take the most presentable, stable, well adjusted, and intelligent of the group and put them in front of the camera. Literally the top 0.1% of blacks. Possibly even smaller. And this is on top of, as you note, reciting a script written by a non-black.
And this is the image that most libtards use to make their moral judgements on.
I don't know if that's really true. A lot of actors are POS IRL, including the black ones. I'd say a higher percentage than the average population, because it's always been a degenerate profession. If you mean they have them playing the top 0.1%, I'd agree.
You could have a black actor be a piece of shit and on par with the rest of Hollywood scumbags and they're still going to be in the top 0.1% of blacks.
That actually did come to mind, though he only targeted a certain conference with representatives. And didn't know that he wasn't actually turning them into mutants, but slowly degenerating their cellular structures until all that's left is just water.
Try to forcibly turn people "diverse." They die from it.
I suspect the device not actually working as intended was to keep the plot morally unambiguous. There isn't any room for sympathetic bad guys in Hollywood.
When the left was out of power, they pushed such things as "fighting against tyranny", which is ecumenical. Now that it in power, it wants to kick the ladder down. No more fighting against tyranny. Now it's just outright political propaganda.
I don't think comedians are the first to condemn other comedians. They may go along with the woke mob rather than try to stand up to them. Comedians (I mean good ones) can take a joke, and you know they tell irreverent jokes among themselves. Forces from outside their world are trying to keep comedy from being funny. Anyone trying to be good will have to just ignore that and try to get by in a woke world.
What do you mean: limiting newcomers?
Except comedy is very meritocratic. No one gives a shit about PC comedians.
Netflix does. Amazon does. And they pay big bucks.
The propaganda doesn't work if no one watches it. Rotten Tomatoes usually shows which comedians people actually enjoy.
best response 'shut up, faggot'
I was looking for something a bit more diplomatic. Lol
Diplomacy with a cultural marxist? You're wasting your time. They don't even believe in objective truth, nevermind objective morality. They only believe in winning, no matter the lie. Arguing with them is pointless.
I don't care how much you disclaimed it: Why are you using FB? Why are you in a FB Star Wars group? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.
It was a Star Wars EU page and strict rules keeping our Disney Star Wars. Thought I was safe. And you are right about diplomacy. I tried to have honest discussions during Floyd riots. Always ended with me being a white supremacist.
I’m gonna repeat this advice
You can find niches and creators in such areas that don't give a shit about the left and it's bullshit. Why give money to the mainstream culture and creators that hate you and want you dead. Support independents.
Fandom, (comics, sports, books, gaming, etc..), is such an easy target because it is mostly passive consumerism that has gatekeepers. And most of society is programmed to be passive consumers that seek the most popular path.
Try having active hobbies that are difficult to be taken over by leftists. Many of these have practical real life applications and deal with some aspect of reality that require you to do something more than buying media.
Geek culture used to be more than comic books and superhero movies.
We had people programming their own games on calculators just for themselves. Dudes that grind mirrors for telescopes. Gals that would learn to weld and build dome houses out of rebar, parachutes and spray insulation. Couples that mastered hundreds of bread and beer recipes. Old farts that collected arrowheads and mineral specimens. Motor-heads that hacked cars.
Create your own awesome M.F. story.
That’s true. I do a lot of hiking and heavy reading on a lot of topics. A lot of people don’t care to read old fashioned books anymore. As for my nerdy books and comic books I’ve been going to older stuff and trying to support indie comics. Even trying to do some writing myself.
I have officially started drafting notes of my ideas for a "Space Military Freelancers" scifi story (drawing more ideas from PSO2 and Gurren Lagann than I would like to admit). We'll see if I can actually turn it into a novel. Then comes the notion of publishing...
captain america fought communists too.
Shhhhh. Don’t bother these people with the facts.
Show them this.
I like that.
I thought you were going to give me a challenging debate. Half of those things are literally opposite of the truth, and the person presented no argument. "If you think the earth is round, you never understood the earth." The other half are strawmen, platitudes and thought-terminating cliches. It's all meaningless NPC words. You could go through every sentence and obliterate them without breaking a sweat, but why?
My reply: "LOL ok enjoy your textwall, I'll just be over here reading Isom #1."
Good point. I pre-ordered ISOM as well. I hope it’s good. I did tell the dude that racism has a specific meaning and he can’t change it to mean someone who disagrees with him or not liking an “update” to a character. I prefer Falcon as Falcon. Doesn’t make me a bad person
First off, woke as it's understood today is far different than whatever they are claiming as woke back in the 60s or 90s. As far as Star Trek goes, I can probably count the so-called woke episodes on one hand (Kirk kisses Uhura (RIP) while being mind controlled, Riker dates a non-binary but clearly female looking alien, Dax makes out with another woman who was a man in a past life, Sisko complains and has visions about racism in the 50s).
Most of these episodes are completely forgettable and were forgotten until they started being incessantly brought up by woketards to prove the franchises they started watching 5 minutes ago have "always been woke". The reason people actually watched these shows back in the day was cause of the cool sci-fi stories and cool characters. I guarantee you nerds in the 90s weren't watching TNG for racial and gender politics.
Yes there was a bit of an anti-capitalist streak but it was actually limited in scope a lot more than people remember. The Federation not using money was only first mentioned offhand in Star Trek IV, before that money and pay and buying things was still talked about by the TOS crew, though it was never a significant aspect of the show.
The first season of TNG (the one most universally reviled) is where most of the socialist no-money vegan utopia lectures by Picard happened and it was always viewed as eye-rolling to insufferable.
By the time DS9 rolled around these concepts were routinely mocked and subverted even by Federation characters. Either way Earth being a perfect utopia was always stated a priori as fact, with any explanation, justification, or details being left to the fans.
Point is it was never that deep, fans just liked the idea of a future where people were not forced to work soul crushing jobs to survive but still were productive, responsible, rational, competent members of society. The biggest misfit ever portrayed on the show was Barclay and he was still a brilliant eminently useful person.
Honestly if society as a whole was as competent and amiable as the crews portrayed on Star Trek, just financial compensation would never be an issue to begin with.
Thank you! Very well said. I enjoyed Star truck up to the new stuff. Also making a commentary on race in the 50s and 60s is different than today. Young ppl today think they are being brave by condemning racism
"Far Beyond the Stars" (Sisko lives out a vision of himself as a writer in the 50s experiencing racial discrimination) was a good episode in spite of it's woke/progressive plot, not because of it. The connection to the actual story line of the show was extremely thin, but seeing all the regulars without makeup but still portraying similar-in-spirit characters was really neat. And as usual the show was extremely well written, produced, and acted (with possible exception to Avery Brooks magnum opus performance at the end "IT'S REEEEAL". I liked it cause I like over-the-top).
Despite Sisko being widely touted in the press as Star Trek's "first black captain" (before the second first black captain dropped in Discovery), the character's race was never mentioned previously on the show, nor did the show feature any plot lines or stories that could be construed as relating to contemporary racial politics (minor xenophobia towards aliens portrayed as literal space nazis was about as far as it went).
Because of that the "commentary" contained in the episode was pretty much "racism happened in the 50s, and it was bad". No allusion or allegory whatsoever to any present tense issue. Really the only reason the episode was made is because Avery Brooks wanted to make it (and direct it).
Of course nowadays with NuTrek it's even worse as contemporary woke politics is inserted for similarly zero reasons with regard to plot, but also with the assumption that those politics still exist in the exact same way 400 or 1000 years from now. And instead of being shoehorned into one or two episodes they are endemic. And the writing and acting suck.
And remember when they went to save that hologram? At first he didn’t want to then he changed his mind. It was cool seeing those actors without makeup. Trying to figure out who was who was part of the fun. Avery Brooks has also said playing the best captain was his goal.
You mean "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang", the one where Vic's lounge is taken over by mobsters? Sisko's outburst about the racial realities of a period holodeck program was pretty random, and even more clearly driven by the actor. It was also dropped as quick as it came.
My takeaway from that scene is that black people must still be bitter about how their people were treated 500 years ago. I seriously doubt anyone now besides medieval/early modern historians could recall much less relate to social politics of the 1500's.
If anything the takeaway should be how far progressive politics had degenerated even from the 60s to the 90s, as when Uhura was called a "negress" by time traveling Abe Lincoln, she didn't even bat an eye, and when the unprompted apology came, she just said "why would I take offense? I don't fear words".
Really this scene is the ultimate counter to "Star Trek was always woke": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BBOWsWODX4
Since wokeness is the opposite of not fearing words, and not being bitter about a distant past (and being "delighted with who you are", as Kirk states, is anathema to the trans agenda).
During that episode I too was a bit puzzled that he would be bitter after centuries. But yea Uhura not getting worked up over a word is definitely the epitome non woke. Thanks.
It's also not very consistent with Past Tense where he acknowledges Earth had issues, but completely understands that it was a different time period. Drastically different from the 40s to us but to him they would be the same ancient era, and seeing how people were treated inferior based on race would probably only make him laugh. Best thing about Past Tense was at the end he doesn't make some moralizing speech about Federation values being better - with a wink to the audience about homelessness and poverty - when asked how a society could end up that bad he simply says "I don't know."
There's so much straight of uppity leftist racism in trek it's insane... Definitely insane to act like it isn't.
Aside from that, even if I agree with anti-racist messaging, there's a difference. The white-black vs black-white episode of trek is good. Dr Seuss 's star bellied sneetches are good. The heavy-handed unsubtlety of Sisko's pro-black episode it's terrible. I only made it through the first episode of Lovecraft country. Sci-fi can do it right. Hell, the point of sci-fi is that you can make allegory to show principles without beating the audience over the head with black=good, white=bad.
Good points. I guess the Sisco thing is odd because I’m puzzled by young black ppl today being bitter over slavery so hundreds of years later he is still bitter over something that ended a number of centuries before he was born? I didn’t bother with lovecraft country as soon as I heard it would be about race. I went and bought some of his books. In regards to Lovecraft it’s amazing that these woke companies bash him for the views he had but make money off him.
Sci Fi done right lets you reach your own conclusion. The Orville has a race of all men (who can naturally reproduce together) that forces all females to be turned to male (like, for real, not the fake, pseudo transition our science tries to do) and they make a whole big thing about transitioning a child born female (but changed male as a baby) back to female, because she feels that way innately. I think they're going for a pro-trans thing, but my takeaway is it's proof we shouldn't have trans kids at all. Good sci Fi lets you think, even if the authors are woke.
I remember a quote that a good story doesn’t tell you how to think, it makes you think. Part of the reason I love sci fi. Well sci Fi before 2014 and the sad puppies fiasco.
I just saw that episode last night. I am sure they were going for a pro trans message but I got the message that your true self is what you were born as.
I saw the episode where they made a big thing about changing the baby, but if it's so easily reversed then why was it such a big deal to begin with? Kinda shits on the previous episode.
Yeah TOS and TNG just weren't focused on Earth. Enterprise is essentially a military vessel, though supposedly an exploration one, despite the fact that it seems to be the most capable warship in the fleet and get into a ton of fights. So money is only important when you get into port. Otherwise your privileges are determined by rank.
It was more hippy than woke -- utopian. They didn't really spend a lot of time on planetary politics.
NuTrek is even worse because of the season-long plots. Every Trek always had a few bad episodes but they were self-contained and you could ignore them.
My answer is always: My hobbies were never woke until you got here. You can't just claim fictional characters like this is an arms race. You are clearly using them as political tools to annoy people you don't like, when they rest of us are just enjoying fun stories and interesting characters. You are the one that needs help if you look to fiction to make sense of reality.
Good point. I never heard the term “toxic fan or fandom” til they arrived.
'Always woke' means nothing more than than that they were left of center at the time of their inception.
Therefore, saying something was 'always woke' is the same as calling for a never-ending slide further and further left, inexorably, forever.
Remember; To Kill a Mockbird was woke once. Now it's 'problematic' because it has the word 'nigger' in it, and it gets pulled from school reading lists. That, too, was 'Always woke', but they don't say that, because there isn't a new, woke-by-the-standards-of-today version of the story for them to promote.
Rest assured that if they make a movie of To Kill A Mockingbird with Scout as a transgender child Atticus Finch as a black lesbian, and turn Tom Robinson into a George Floyd clone with a PhD in chemistry who was making his own ethical fentanyl, when you attack their bastardization of the original work, they will say to you, derisively, staring down their nose at you and grinning smugly, 'To Kill a Mockingbird was always woke, you just weren't paying attention.'
It's bullshit.
They're talking out of their ass, and they hope you're stupid enough to believe it.
Agreed. And they essentially take any good qualities and any negative qualities apply to those who disagree. I like To Kill a Mockingbird. We read it in 9th grade. I was shocked that it became problematic
Above all, the issue only worsens when you realize- they're not taking the messages to heart. They're projecting the "bad guy" image onto everything they don't like, and cannot even start to look inward for a second, believing themselves to be true arbiters of THE MESSAGE and can do no wrong.
"Racism bad?" Good message.
"Racism bad, therefore straight white men/conservatives/Christians bad?" You fucked up.
You can say no it wasn’t. with X-men at least you have Stan Lee, the creator, saying himself that he wanted to create a new superhero team but was tired of coming up with new origin stories so he made them all born that way. The stories in older comics like that are also incredibly simple. There is an issue of the X-men, either 9 or 12 I can’t remember, where it’s literally, “ hey look the avengers” and then they fight and then at the end they stop fighting for as little reason as they started and they go their separate ways. And that’s the plot of the book. Absolutely no message at all other than look at our 2 elite teams of hero’s fight. Original comics weren’t woke.
They like to point at early captain America comics fighting Nazis. Problem is those were real Nazis and in the Cold War he fought communist. Ironman fought the Vietcong. Those early books were written and sent to soldiers as entertainment and as morale boosts not as a tool of calling whoever would be challenging FDR as the devil.
Actual history is on your side of the argument not whatever they decide to attach to it.
Yea I remember Eric July playing an interview with Stan Lee debunking that view of the x-men. Also I don’t think Captain America would stand by while ppl destroy property in the name of “justice”
Certainly not looting and burning markets that have literally nothing to do with the "injustice" they are supposedly "protesting" about.
Some of it was was straight up war propaganda. Popeye is a good example. I'm not sure if and Action or Marvel comics were.
I think Superman and captain America was too at first.
Yeah, he said those things before women (Peggy McIntosh) redefined what racism meant.
Also, speaking of women, he was worked like a slave by his own daughter until his death, so if you unconditionally support women, you are supporting his oppressors who ruined his twilight years so they didn't have to work for a living.
https://archive.ph/HBraz
That's all I've got, because I don't like half the garbage mentioned.
Cool, now go be a faggot somewhere else.
I made a response asking him if he feels better about himself. He deleted his post.
"Fuck off leech"
The correct response is "So Star Trek doesn't have any problematic aspects to it?" Then they say "Yes" and you pull up Star Trek's many men are from mars women are from venus type episodes. If they say "No", you get to respond with then it's not woke. Because something can't be woke and problematic in their ideology and they know that.
You can do this with any fandom. D&D -> Drow femdom society. X-men -> Xavier creeping on teen girls. Deadpool -> Almost everything. The Punisher -> almost everything. Captain America -> Pro-war nationalism. Superman -> American exceptionalism. Wonder Woman -> bondage is her weakness. Star Wars -> Racism and Slave Leia. Doctor Who -> Patriarchy. Harry Potter -> Women are Women, Hermione is white.
For X-Men, I'd say he's following Magnetos ideology. Maybe the lgbtqrstuv should get an asteroid and live in space.
The rioters act more like Daleks than Kaleds.
I'm sure Bones McCoy could fix your mental illness with a shot quite easily.
Yea Magneto does seem like the logical conclusion of SJW thinking. Similar to Dany in Game of Thrones.
That's why he makes a good villain, you can see real life people like him, and with the same reasoning.
"Woke" has changed drastically.
Yes, X-men was about civil rights. But what the hell rights are minorities fighting for today? They have so many programs catered to them and still commit way more crime. Magneto was a mutant supremacist and he was the VILLAIN, yet that's exactly what BLM is today. They're black supremacists.
Captain America fought nazis. Which was useful propaganda to alleviate the guilt of a brother war. No one likes war, but turning them into cartoon villains makes living with it easier. Then in the 00s or so, suddenly EVERYTHING became fascist/nazi. That's completely taking Captain America out of context.
Yes, the Empire in Star Wars was a fascist regime. But guess what? Facebook, twitter, youtube, etc taking orders from the CDC is the literal fucking definition of fascism. The extended universe literally justified the Empire's existence because of a huge exogalactic threat. Which is precisely why they had to burn the EU. So these woke idiots again are turning against the wrong fascists and and neglecting the context of the lore.
The Punisher is about breaking the rules to punish bad guys. A case where things like "due process" gets in the way from bringing justice. It's about making people cheer for Duerte style mob justice, except they're proven themselves gullible enough to cheer for the death of anyone the state-run media tells them to cheer for.
Star Trek was promoting equality, sure. But like with X-men, people don't want equality today. They want privileges. And that's ant-Star Trek.
Superman and immigration? Superman is a perfect example of the "model minority" that woke-tards claim is harmful and why they hate asians. Specifically because asians make blacks and mexicans look bad.
The female Thor one is the most absurd nonsense going.
The typical “if you don’t like it you are a bad person”
Tell them that all their comic book heroes were created by white men. And the ones who are still alive are now OLD white men, the worst kind! The newest thing in the comic book scene is by a young black man, who they hate because they are so disgustingly racist.
I wouldn't waste much energy on gaslighters.
You know that really infuriates me. You know full well the woke employees at Marvel today have zero respect for Stan Lee, Ditko, Kirby, etc. yet they throw their names around
I recall people always saying the x-men mutants was an allegory for homosexuals when i was a kid. It never made any fucking sense. Unless buttfucking your mate let you shoot beams from your eye. If so... I've been playing on the wrong team....
That was funny. I heard some variation of that or that they spoke to outcasts. All that shows is that people can relate to characters that don't "look like them".
Except there's a massive difference between tribalism and serious concern over a motherfucking Jugernaught. Mutants were austrocized because they posed an enormous threat to average Joe's. I'm supposed to relate or feel bad for the guy cursed with the power to not die? Oh the poor baby.
"Lord of the Rings was clearly about the evils of niggers as embodied by orcs, if you don't get that you never understood LOTR"
Then you would need to run to avoid all the exploding heads
"I don't recall Xenogears, Chrono Cross or FF7 being about child mutilation. So no, my hobbies were never woke".
I could probably do a 500 word essay, easily, on how Star Trek is the definition of conservative (in hundreds of years, culture hasn't progressed past 19th/20th C). Not only that, but Starfleet is canonically segregated (different ships/stations are crewed by mostly single species. The Enterprise is a human ship, for example) because of biological necessity. Not only that, but with minimal interpolation, you can make a compelling argument that the reason the Federation was founded was because non-Europeans nuked themselves into near-extinction.
But I'm not going to write that essay because the assertions you came across are retarded and in bad faith. I won't spend energy refuting them and neither should you.
Absolutely, 100%.
They have replicators that automatically create food or build anything that's ever been designed, and rather than everyone lying around having orgies all day and eating until they need to go to the vomitorium, people are risking their lives to explore the stars and colonize every habitable planet that isn't already host to an intelligent civilization? And they take their FAMILIES with them? Hello? THERE ARE CHILDREN ON THE ENTERPRISE! There are children (of monogamous parents!) being essentially inducted into the military practically from birth!
And what of art? They venerate centuries old classics.
Data's paintings are interesting, too. They're almost all realist paintings, and while realist art is a hallmark of socialist and communist propaganda of the 20th century, these states were (and are) all socially conservative, no matter their economic policy.
Considering the technology they possess, and the lifestyles it would enable them to lead, The Federation is deeply conservative.
Despite Roddenberry's hang ups with religion, all the TNG characters are deeply, culturally Christian, moreso than the average American today. Several characters espouse the pursuit of self-betterment, especially when the goal is unobtainable, which is almost the definition of Christiandom.
In the 80s, Iain M. Banks started writing The Culture because, to his mind, all mainstream science fiction was hierarchical (military) and innately right-wing/authoritarian. Banks wanted to see if innately libertarian (colored by his own left, secular, socialist worldview) science fiction was possible. Now, apparently, all science fiction has always been communist. Too bad Banks' life's work was pointless, apparently.
"Remember when the Diversity Alliance and their grievance politics were the villains in Star Wars EU? I do. And how they even addressed how minoriti- err aliens oppressed each other and were their own worst foes, not whitey- I mean humans. So woke. Along with Boba Fett's belief in the immorality of premarital sex."
Good point
There isn't an answer, that's part of the problem. It's an appeal to authority, an appeal to the "mainstream," an enforcement of the Overton window.
You can point out how X was never Y until you're blue in the face, it doesn't matter. What matters is the Narrative, and SJWs have echochambered themselves into believing they know what the true narrative is.
So, there are plenty of ways to rebut their argument, but it generally won't stick, since they're cultists.
That's fine actually.
At that point it's not about convincing the other side. It's about presenting yourself in a sane, reasonable and collected manner. The audience will decide for themselves who's screws are less loose.
A lot of those examples are wrong or twisting context (leftists are great at that), but forgetting that for a moment... the difference is that the stories were idealist then, but they were stories first and foremost with a moral lesson attached. Now they're subversive trash which exist only to preach and dismantle society.
"Oh, so you're saying it was always woke? Wouldn't that mean that the long-time fans clearly aren't racist? And why does it need to 'change' if it was already 'woke'?"
I used that logic when they invoked Lee and Kirby and condemning racism. I told them they are dead white men so y’all hate that, they created women heroes who looked like women, and their definition of racism compared to modern day woke people is very different
Exactly and also remember the term toxic fan didn’t come up til they arrived. There used to be a lot of passionate debates but not that