If you actually read the article the 22k was dealership price and the 3rd party shop price was 5k. And "few" years is 8 which is how long the warranty lasts, and we don't know what % of cars have these failures when.
Still not cheap but not the ridiculous exaggeration the post title is trying to insinuate.
Yeah but the Great Resetters currently in power and their allies the non-MAGA republicans are doing what they can to raise the price of gasoline to prevent that from being economically feasible.
What old shitboxes? You wouldn't want to encourage something like owning an illegal car, would you citizen? How dare you!
Cause, 12 governors sent letters to Biden asking him to put a nationwide ban on gas cars into place by 2035. AFAIK Biden hasn't done that yet (just increased the emissions standards on cars), but the Gretas of the world are undoubtedly going to keep trying.
Something like a Prius battery can be 3-4K on its own and I imagine that’s with the Toyotas scale discounts and for something less complicated than a Tesla’s. He may not be exaggerating
its a second hand vehicle, but that doesnt make it any better. you expect to buy a 10 year old car and it needs 20k in repairs? that is going to be EVERY car, soon, if they get their way with 'evs'
So battery capacity and health testing results will likely need to be provided with each used car sale. The market will catch up. Consumers will quickly realize the true cost of these vehicles.
We can talk about single cases and edge cases all day long. The fact is we need to talk about statistical outcomes and the mean outcomes far more than we need to talk about edge cases.
How reliable is a battery test? How many times is there a fail state that is NOT predicted by these tests? Even if it became "diagnosable", you still will forever have the problem of 10 year old car is suddenly worth 22k less. This will add to the rusting landfills and doesnt help with global warming, unless its reduced by throwing all these wrecked teslas into the atmosphere to create a new greenhouse effect, lmao.
Ok, single cases, what is the failure rate of these batteries at 10-15 years?
Electric cars are a joke until someone makes them with universal battery packs that are owner replaceable and commodity priced...like gasoline.
They're built specifically to be the opposite of that.
They're the most unconsumer-friendly vehicles on the road because if anything goes wrong with the powertrain/drivetrain there's almost nothing you could or can do on your own to replace/repair the vehicle.
Yes. I know this. I've been staying since about 1999 that electric cars would be a great 2nd car (for commuting, groceries) IF they were required to use a universal, modular battery pack. Sort of like how regulations exist that keeps gasoline pretty much the same. But no, electric cars are like iPhones. Proprietary and intentionally designed with a short lifecycle.
They ALREADY do. No, not an ICE. And no, not a tesla, nor a EMustang, nor the Hummer or Etron. You can buy an electric car TODAY that has a modular AND universal battery pack. You can fill it up at any compatible station. It's called a mirai, you can even get a few years of power, for Free!
It's a common trend in our society and culture to remove freedom and choice from individuals and concentrate power. This may be a universally human tendency, I don't know. Rest assured though, this trend will continue in EVs, gas engine vehicles, everything.
It limits travel distance. Fine in the city but if you need to get somewhere far away? Plus no guarantee of a charging station, or one that would work if everything went to hell.
People who live in rural areas tend to depend more on using their personal vehicles to travel further distances. Even if there's an airport nearby, flying out of a regional airport tends to cost more than flying out of a hub. Rural areas are also less likely to have chargers for electric cars.
Limiting travel distance would encourage people to live in cities, where their children can be indoctrinated in Democrat run schools. The higher cost of living also tends to mean that both parents must work full-time and don't have the time to keep track of what their children are being taught.
I have a theory that feminism is the patsy in this scenario. There are number of very rich interests that are looking to make a very good ongoing profit from climate fraud. Government coercion to buy their flawed "products" - note this includes carbon credits - means a lot of profit for someone(s).
Because feminists are easily influenced especially by causes / movements that demonise cis hetro patriarachal capitalism and men, they are very useful to push this agenda.
We, as a society, have accepted feminist logic as the norm hence decision making is based on emotion instead of logic.
And just think they will push to ban gas stations soon and try to force everyone into an ev. Takes 3 minutes to fill up a tank of gas vs 40 for a 90% charge
Counterpoint to all those arguing that EVs create dependency--I have solar panels. If/when I get an EV, I can charge it off grid, and even use the EV to power my house (see Ford F150 EV). That's true energy independence.
[I would never argue that EVs, with their current capacities, are good for everybody or even most people. I do think we're at a technological tipping point, and EVs are going to surge in the next couple of years.]
The F150 EV is guessed to have a battery capacity of 100-130 kWh. My personal max power generation is about 45 kWh per day. Average across the year is more like 25-30kWh, though it can be virtually zero. So yeah, it could be a week to charge a fully depleted battery.
Think about it like a large battery with wheels--fill up from from the grid, uses it sparingly in outages, recharge during the day, use at night, etc., you can get some substantial usage out of it.
The technology is only getting better in all aspects (battery capacity, charging, efficiencies, regenerative technologies, solar panel efficiencies, etc.). For the majority of residential users, ICE is dead man walking not due to anything governments are doing, but due to convenience and technological advances.
That's fairly impressive for home solar, but you need to take into acct the charging losses, so likely 2.5-3.2 days on your current output. CLOSER AROUND 4.8ish-6 on the average days. Teslas also need more Elec to charge to full, i dont know if your ford will be the same, but if so... add a 20th more on to that, maybe a bit more. I think the idea of that is pretty cool, being able to power our homes without having to have many draw on the power grid, but probably still years away from practicality. if you could double that output safely tho, youd be in a pretty sweet spot for drive regen. The recharge home idea is great, but again, losses make it impractical for more than emergencies (IMO), and your battery is now getting worn--- here comes the ford profits. But all technology is improving. We're seeing in race car tech the ability for nearly 50% efficiency engines. THats astounding. Current cars are somewhere around 23-30%. I havent been able to find hard figures for the model T, but I believe earlier cars were around 15% and lower. ice is more afforable, easier to work on, and quicker to produce, and they dont suck in states outside of california ;). If we can get 40-50% effic widely produced cars, we will handily be able to overcome the 'green' advantage of musks 'evs'. a comparison is that modern diesel is around 35-40%, so you can extrapolate the added fuel mpg compared to modern day ice with regular ignition. Battery capacity has been getting better for the last 20-30 years, I think youre a bit optimistic that there will be some massive advance in capacity anytime soon ;).
Yeah yeah, "renewables" are all a scam, and Elon makes most of his money from subsidies and carbon stupidity. To be fair he didn't set up the system he's milking.
If you actually read the article the 22k was dealership price and the 3rd party shop price was 5k. And "few" years is 8 which is how long the warranty lasts, and we don't know what % of cars have these failures when.
Still not cheap but not the ridiculous exaggeration the post title is trying to insinuate.
It may well be an exaggeration (he's not exactly known for his understatements), but a 22k dealership bill is extraordinary after only 8 years.
I can get a good 2'nd hand car for that price
Yeah but the Great Resetters currently in power and their allies the non-MAGA republicans are doing what they can to raise the price of gasoline to prevent that from being economically feasible.
What old shitboxes? You wouldn't want to encourage something like owning an illegal car, would you citizen? How dare you!
Cause, 12 governors sent letters to Biden asking him to put a nationwide ban on gas cars into place by 2035. AFAIK Biden hasn't done that yet (just increased the emissions standards on cars), but the Gretas of the world are undoubtedly going to keep trying.
a brand new mitsu and have 5k to spare.
Something like a Prius battery can be 3-4K on its own and I imagine that’s with the Toyotas scale discounts and for something less complicated than a Tesla’s. He may not be exaggerating
Someone doesn't own a Mercedes.
No, not at all. It's a statistical question and you are talking only about a single outcome.
Of course a single outcome can be extraordinary.
Not for a BMW
the whole story is clickbait misrepresentation.
its a second hand vehicle, but that doesnt make it any better. you expect to buy a 10 year old car and it needs 20k in repairs? that is going to be EVERY car, soon, if they get their way with 'evs'
So battery capacity and health testing results will likely need to be provided with each used car sale. The market will catch up. Consumers will quickly realize the true cost of these vehicles.
We can talk about single cases and edge cases all day long. The fact is we need to talk about statistical outcomes and the mean outcomes far more than we need to talk about edge cases.
How reliable is a battery test? How many times is there a fail state that is NOT predicted by these tests? Even if it became "diagnosable", you still will forever have the problem of 10 year old car is suddenly worth 22k less. This will add to the rusting landfills and doesnt help with global warming, unless its reduced by throwing all these wrecked teslas into the atmosphere to create a new greenhouse effect, lmao.
Ok, single cases, what is the failure rate of these batteries at 10-15 years?
And government will add tax for servicing normal cars to subsidize servicing electrics.
I bought my Corolla 100k and 5 years ago for $4k. Probably still has a other 250k left on it.
Electric cars are a joke until someone makes them with universal battery packs that are owner replaceable and commodity priced...like gasoline.
They're built specifically to be the opposite of that.
They're the most unconsumer-friendly vehicles on the road because if anything goes wrong with the powertrain/drivetrain there's almost nothing you could or can do on your own to replace/repair the vehicle.
Yes. I know this. I've been staying since about 1999 that electric cars would be a great 2nd car (for commuting, groceries) IF they were required to use a universal, modular battery pack. Sort of like how regulations exist that keeps gasoline pretty much the same. But no, electric cars are like iPhones. Proprietary and intentionally designed with a short lifecycle.
They ALREADY do. No, not an ICE. And no, not a tesla, nor a EMustang, nor the Hummer or Etron. You can buy an electric car TODAY that has a modular AND universal battery pack. You can fill it up at any compatible station. It's called a mirai, you can even get a few years of power, for Free!
That thing is fuel cells!
You can pop the batteries out with that bad boy. Where can you get one?
Electric cars could be so great if every company making them wasn't God awful.
You can buy one from most major auto mfrs. I guess if you hate them all...
Yes
It's a common trend in our society and culture to remove freedom and choice from individuals and concentrate power. This may be a universally human tendency, I don't know. Rest assured though, this trend will continue in EVs, gas engine vehicles, everything.
It costs more than making a new one, thats why eLoN doesnt do it.
Yep no massive government subsidy for fixing your old one.
You must be new here. OP is a massive faggot and a cuck.
Which is more than enough to buy a whole car outright at...
CAPITOL CITY MOTOR COMPANY, ONE BLOCK OFF TWO THIRTY FIVE ON THE STATE FAIR SIDE OR ONLINE AT APPROVEDBYJOEDOTCOM.
(Anyone from central Iowa knows that voice.)
Who knew that throwing out the tried and tested for something completely new but stylish would be a bad idea?
But hey, at least the carbon is emitted at the coal-burning power plant and not by your car. HOW DARE YOU?
Yeah, and automatic drives used to be total pigshit when they first came out.
Your point?
Also, as for the "coal plants" thing: maybe stop letting fucking France of all countries kick your ass when it comes to nuclear energy?
these batteries are far from the first generation... theres not much more to improve besides the energy capac afaik
It limits travel distance. Fine in the city but if you need to get somewhere far away? Plus no guarantee of a charging station, or one that would work if everything went to hell.
Ionization. To trap people and keep them isolated and contained.
Farmers generally don't like it when their livestock jump the fence.
People who live in rural areas tend to depend more on using their personal vehicles to travel further distances. Even if there's an airport nearby, flying out of a regional airport tends to cost more than flying out of a hub. Rural areas are also less likely to have chargers for electric cars.
Limiting travel distance would encourage people to live in cities, where their children can be indoctrinated in Democrat run schools. The higher cost of living also tends to mean that both parents must work full-time and don't have the time to keep track of what their children are being taught.
You can control people's movement, where they go, how far they go. Does Tesla have that in mind? Nah, but the government might like that power.
It's a cult.
to force the poor into buying cars that average 10k+ higher than what they can afford.
I have a theory that feminism is the patsy in this scenario. There are number of very rich interests that are looking to make a very good ongoing profit from climate fraud. Government coercion to buy their flawed "products" - note this includes carbon credits - means a lot of profit for someone(s).
Because feminists are easily influenced especially by causes / movements that demonise cis hetro patriarachal capitalism and men, they are very useful to push this agenda.
We, as a society, have accepted feminist logic as the norm hence decision making is based on emotion instead of logic.
its not feminism its big business and the govts seeing $$ signs from yearly replaced batterie packs
Tesla quality is unacceptable for that price range. And even worse for the stock price
At what capacity has your battery degraded, since that time?
And just think they will push to ban gas stations soon and try to force everyone into an ev. Takes 3 minutes to fill up a tank of gas vs 40 for a 90% charge
Counterpoint to all those arguing that EVs create dependency--I have solar panels. If/when I get an EV, I can charge it off grid, and even use the EV to power my house (see Ford F150 EV). That's true energy independence.
[I would never argue that EVs, with their current capacities, are good for everybody or even most people. I do think we're at a technological tipping point, and EVs are going to surge in the next couple of years.]
Heh, you 'can', but enjoy spending 2 weeks to get a day or two of ev time. power losses will make the house transferring very expensive, I bet.
The F150 EV is guessed to have a battery capacity of 100-130 kWh. My personal max power generation is about 45 kWh per day. Average across the year is more like 25-30kWh, though it can be virtually zero. So yeah, it could be a week to charge a fully depleted battery.
Think about it like a large battery with wheels--fill up from from the grid, uses it sparingly in outages, recharge during the day, use at night, etc., you can get some substantial usage out of it.
The technology is only getting better in all aspects (battery capacity, charging, efficiencies, regenerative technologies, solar panel efficiencies, etc.). For the majority of residential users, ICE is dead man walking not due to anything governments are doing, but due to convenience and technological advances.
That's fairly impressive for home solar, but you need to take into acct the charging losses, so likely 2.5-3.2 days on your current output. CLOSER AROUND 4.8ish-6 on the average days. Teslas also need more Elec to charge to full, i dont know if your ford will be the same, but if so... add a 20th more on to that, maybe a bit more. I think the idea of that is pretty cool, being able to power our homes without having to have many draw on the power grid, but probably still years away from practicality. if you could double that output safely tho, youd be in a pretty sweet spot for drive regen. The recharge home idea is great, but again, losses make it impractical for more than emergencies (IMO), and your battery is now getting worn--- here comes the ford profits. But all technology is improving. We're seeing in race car tech the ability for nearly 50% efficiency engines. THats astounding. Current cars are somewhere around 23-30%. I havent been able to find hard figures for the model T, but I believe earlier cars were around 15% and lower. ice is more afforable, easier to work on, and quicker to produce, and they dont suck in states outside of california ;). If we can get 40-50% effic widely produced cars, we will handily be able to overcome the 'green' advantage of musks 'evs'. a comparison is that modern diesel is around 35-40%, so you can extrapolate the added fuel mpg compared to modern day ice with regular ignition. Battery capacity has been getting better for the last 20-30 years, I think youre a bit optimistic that there will be some massive advance in capacity anytime soon ;).
Hydrogen cars incoming?
I gotta say, it do look pretty sleek. and the 'free' fuel does make it a LOT more tempting than a tesla at today's prices.
Yeah yeah, "renewables" are all a scam, and Elon makes most of his money from subsidies and carbon stupidity. To be fair he didn't set up the system he's milking.
Plug in hybrids are the foreseeable future. Ev for short distance, regular engine for road trips.