It’s interesting to see the shift in real time though. The show that they’re undoing was a real early sort of canary in the coal mine in terms of how depraved Hollywood was getting with the whole hating their fans thing. It literally started with this ethnic girl boss and some sort of event that triggered a magic explosion that destroyed all of star fleet across the universe. Like they literally blew up Star Trek to establish the lore of this show
I saw the first 30 episodes of Lower Decks, before I had to stop Paramount Plus for budget reasons.
I liked it a LOT more than I thought I would. No joke, the worst episodes were, by far, the FIRST two, and I felt it picked up greatly in quality from there.
Sadly, I heard about what happened in season 4, turning Dr. Bashir homosexual for some Cardassian, and it looks like I quit at just the right time.
Now I wish I'd never seen it. I should have seen this coming. You were right.
Canon is such a joke. As long as people treat "Owners" as the lorekeepers rather than the creators, it's only going to keep going downhill.
It still blows my mind that some people will admit that certain sequels are garbage and bad, but insist "It still happened though." As though it's not all made up at the end of the day.
Ehh, like I've mentioned to you before, canon is still a useful concept, because anime filler exists (even if for example, the filler in the original Dragon Ball Z show is a lot better than for example, One Piece's filler), and to invoke Dragon Ball again, the only reason that Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super were made is because of Toriyama's personal disgust at Dragon Ball Evolution.
For my part I disagree only insofar as "canon" as a concept is always going to be limited to a specific key-holder's choice of continuity.
Outside of that, there's no "canon" for Greek myths, and i find that to be a purer example of human storytelling than the cluster of retardation that Ip law represents.
Broadly it's only purpose is to set your expectations of continuity. Which, is easy. And does not require government enforcement against anybody who tries to play pretend too effectively.
Its not useful to anyone because it can change on a whim. Its also far less sacred than it once was and now people will gladly pick and choose what parts they like, including the actual series owners.
DB is a great example. Super is literal garbage*, so a lot of fans like myself just ignore its existence and keep the prior Canon (that Toriyama retconned). Bardock is still badass, Broly is insane, and Trunks had purple hair and grew up instead of staying a loser Twink forever. We can even slot in Tapion giving Trunks the sword, Garlic Jr. kicking off Z, and Cooler having the better 5th form than Frieza ever could.
Which nobody can complain about it, as Toriyama himself treated his canon as shit and ignored things at a whim, so we can do the same back to him.
*It will never not be ironic to me that he saw an awful adaption of "his series" and it inspired him to ruin his actual series himself so badly that people turned their opinions on GT around. Great guy, but he should have let it stay dead.
Toriyama "canonized" him in a random one shot, so now instead he is a caring loving father (only to Goku, never even spares a thought about Raditz) who literally developed a conscience randomly after years of genocide because he saw some aliens who reminded him of his wife and younger son. He is also super duper smarter than any other Saiyan because he somehow was the only one who thought for a second and realized all the red flags Frieza was putting out about killing them. It also added Goku's mother, a literal void of personality who is just a generic nice and caring woman who is nothing like any other Saiyan we've seen.
So basically he just made the "Superman" rip off much more exact, destroyed every reason why fans loved the original Bardock, and retconned a shit ton of Saiyan established lore. Just for a throwaway character he never again references or uses. He ruined him just so he could "own" the character himself (instead of being an original creation of the anime team like all the movies).
At least nu-Broly is still an interesting and good character who was used very well so far despite being a lot more generic.
Honestly, people need to be willing to cut creators off too, when they go off the deep end and start vandalizing their past work with retcons and sequels.
It’s the best thing Trek has done since Archer’s Enterprise.
...maybe it's because I grew up with TNG, DS9 and, to a lesser extent Voyager, but that seems like a low bar to limbo under...
To be honest, though, If you haven't seen the OG series, I strongly recommend you binge watch it at your earliest convenience... The humor in that show alone makes it worthwhile(never seen that particular flavor of comedy anywhere else...it's hard to describe, honestly), and that's before you even get into the stories, the writing, the acting...I'll stop here, but yeah... the original star trek is hard to appreciate as a kid, but as an adult...wow...
You can watch every series through Enterprise, 1 + the even numbered movies + First Contact, then finish it off with Galaxy Quest and "then they all lived happily ever after".
Enterprise was terrible at the time, but there hasn't been anything better in the scifi space since. I've grown to like it in spite of itself because of that.
At the bare minimum, the In a Mirror Darkly two-parter is an excellent stand alone story.
It's standalone because it takes place entirely in the mirror universe, involves absolutely nothing of the prime plot or crew, and even has it's own intro and theme music. Therefore it can be enjoyed even by people who don't like the show or any of the characters. As has been the case many times over the years when I've introduced it to people who didn't like ENT.
The writer of the article has a potentially incorrect interpretation of that scene. The Series finale deals with a mutli-verse rupture that causes ships (and crew if precautions have not been taken) to undergo a permutation to another variation of that ship.
This also includes past and present for the current universe as well (the Cerritos ship changes back to a California class once its done doing several federation ship cameos). A Klingon ship also permutates into a ancient sailing barge in a scene meant to demonstrate just how dangerous the rift is (A literal primitive fishing boat and its crew has no chance of survival in the vacuum of space).
So the scene doesn't really remove the possibility that discovery occurred in the prime universe.
The writer of this article clearly has no idea what he's talking about and is huffing copium while trying to twist himself into various shapes in order to explain bad writing upon bad writing.
The only Klingons we ever see in Strange New Worlds look exactly like the Klingons we’re used to seeing since Worf stepped onto the bridge of The Next Generation.
This guy has never seen The Motion Picture or its sequels.
I have to confess that I didn't hate the first 3 seasons of Discovery. And thought the first half of Season 1 was actually good. The rest, 1.5 through 3 was still watchable in watching a giant pile of money burn up satisfaction way. Then season 4 had "non-binary" character and its nauseating "boyfriend" featured as major portions of the plot and I could no longer handle it.
Of course I was more tolerant when it came out. Now I would have turned it off and erased it from the Plex server at the first homo scene.
It’s interesting to see the shift in real time though. The show that they’re undoing was a real early sort of canary in the coal mine in terms of how depraved Hollywood was getting with the whole hating their fans thing. It literally started with this ethnic girl boss and some sort of event that triggered a magic explosion that destroyed all of star fleet across the universe. Like they literally blew up Star Trek to establish the lore of this show
I saw the first 30 episodes of Lower Decks, before I had to stop Paramount Plus for budget reasons.
I liked it a LOT more than I thought I would. No joke, the worst episodes were, by far, the FIRST two, and I felt it picked up greatly in quality from there.
Sadly, I heard about what happened in season 4, turning Dr. Bashir homosexual for some Cardassian, and it looks like I quit at just the right time.
Now I wish I'd never seen it. I should have seen this coming. You were right.
It was alternatively universe Bashir and alternative universe Cardassian.
The producers wanted head-pats for making a beloved character into a cocksucking faggot WHILE having plausible deniability.
Remember, the target audience for this series is tweens. Kids under twelve.
You can keep Lower Decks. I hope you two are very happy together.
If you think it will stop with AU variants Alan Scott has a bridge to sell you.
Why kids under twelve are being exposed to cocksucking faggots is the real question...
Canon is such a joke. As long as people treat "Owners" as the lorekeepers rather than the creators, it's only going to keep going downhill.
It still blows my mind that some people will admit that certain sequels are garbage and bad, but insist "It still happened though." As though it's not all made up at the end of the day.
Canon was useful when designating what was the actual show and what was fanfiction being written by a random person.
Once fanfiction became more than just shitty webrings and instead AAA productions by the "owners" of the IP, it became a useless concept.
Ehh, like I've mentioned to you before, canon is still a useful concept, because anime filler exists (even if for example, the filler in the original Dragon Ball Z show is a lot better than for example, One Piece's filler), and to invoke Dragon Ball again, the only reason that Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super were made is because of Toriyama's personal disgust at Dragon Ball Evolution.
...Why must you invoke the name of That Which Does Not Exist And Never Did!?!
What are you talking about?
exactly
For my part I disagree only insofar as "canon" as a concept is always going to be limited to a specific key-holder's choice of continuity.
Outside of that, there's no "canon" for Greek myths, and i find that to be a purer example of human storytelling than the cluster of retardation that Ip law represents.
Broadly it's only purpose is to set your expectations of continuity. Which, is easy. And does not require government enforcement against anybody who tries to play pretend too effectively.
Its not useful to anyone because it can change on a whim. Its also far less sacred than it once was and now people will gladly pick and choose what parts they like, including the actual series owners.
DB is a great example. Super is literal garbage*, so a lot of fans like myself just ignore its existence and keep the prior Canon (that Toriyama retconned). Bardock is still badass, Broly is insane, and Trunks had purple hair and grew up instead of staying a loser Twink forever. We can even slot in Tapion giving Trunks the sword, Garlic Jr. kicking off Z, and Cooler having the better 5th form than Frieza ever could.
Which nobody can complain about it, as Toriyama himself treated his canon as shit and ignored things at a whim, so we can do the same back to him.
*It will never not be ironic to me that he saw an awful adaption of "his series" and it inspired him to ruin his actual series himself so badly that people turned their opinions on GT around. Great guy, but he should have let it stay dead.
What did they do to bardock?
Toriyama "canonized" him in a random one shot, so now instead he is a caring loving father (only to Goku, never even spares a thought about Raditz) who literally developed a conscience randomly after years of genocide because he saw some aliens who reminded him of his wife and younger son. He is also super duper smarter than any other Saiyan because he somehow was the only one who thought for a second and realized all the red flags Frieza was putting out about killing them. It also added Goku's mother, a literal void of personality who is just a generic nice and caring woman who is nothing like any other Saiyan we've seen.
So basically he just made the "Superman" rip off much more exact, destroyed every reason why fans loved the original Bardock, and retconned a shit ton of Saiyan established lore. Just for a throwaway character he never again references or uses. He ruined him just so he could "own" the character himself (instead of being an original creation of the anime team like all the movies).
At least nu-Broly is still an interesting and good character who was used very well so far despite being a lot more generic.
It's all Dante, all the time. Just less ability and love for the subject.
Thank you for succinctly putting in to words the beef I've got with most of western media.
Honestly, people need to be willing to cut creators off too, when they go off the deep end and start vandalizing their past work with retcons and sequels.
Maybe we should go back to art only having value after the creator is dead?
No one wanted STLD in the first place, it's a shitty Rick and Morty lookalike show for tourists.
nothing happened after enterprise.
Ironically all of that nothing is what made me actually start to like Enterprise.
It's no DS9 but overall an interesting and usually fun look at pre-Federation
Obligatory: https://imgchest.com/p/m9yxmnb9p4q
...maybe it's because I grew up with TNG, DS9 and, to a lesser extent Voyager, but that seems like a low bar to limbo under...
To be honest, though, If you haven't seen the OG series, I strongly recommend you binge watch it at your earliest convenience... The humor in that show alone makes it worthwhile(never seen that particular flavor of comedy anywhere else...it's hard to describe, honestly), and that's before you even get into the stories, the writing, the acting...I'll stop here, but yeah... the original star trek is hard to appreciate as a kid, but as an adult...wow...
You can watch every series through Enterprise, 1 + the even numbered movies + First Contact, then finish it off with Galaxy Quest and "then they all lived happily ever after".
This is the true way.
Though I'm in a minority for actually liking Nemesis.
It's not great but it's In The Pale Moonlight compared to the Discovery-verse.
lol.
Enterprise was terrible at the time, but there hasn't been anything better in the scifi space since. I've grown to like it in spite of itself because of that.
At the bare minimum, the In a Mirror Darkly two-parter is an excellent stand alone story.
a plot device every generation of star trek has played with since the original.
lol.
sorry, had to give you a hard time about that one, lol
And?
It's standalone because it takes place entirely in the mirror universe, involves absolutely nothing of the prime plot or crew, and even has it's own intro and theme music. Therefore it can be enjoyed even by people who don't like the show or any of the characters. As has been the case many times over the years when I've introduced it to people who didn't like ENT.
lol, just yanking your chain, bro. all in good fun.😁
I just thought maybe you hadn't seen it. no worries.
I haven't, maybe I'll take a look.
Like I said, just picking on you, lol
They literally just made Garek and Bashir faggots.
The writer of the article has a potentially incorrect interpretation of that scene. The Series finale deals with a mutli-verse rupture that causes ships (and crew if precautions have not been taken) to undergo a permutation to another variation of that ship.
This also includes past and present for the current universe as well (the Cerritos ship changes back to a California class once its done doing several federation ship cameos). A Klingon ship also permutates into a ancient sailing barge in a scene meant to demonstrate just how dangerous the rift is (A literal primitive fishing boat and its crew has no chance of survival in the vacuum of space).
So the scene doesn't really remove the possibility that discovery occurred in the prime universe.
The writer of this article clearly has no idea what he's talking about and is huffing copium while trying to twist himself into various shapes in order to explain bad writing upon bad writing.
This guy has never seen The Motion Picture or its sequels.
Okay, but how do we remove ST:LD from mainstream canon?
I have to confess that I didn't hate the first 3 seasons of Discovery. And thought the first half of Season 1 was actually good. The rest, 1.5 through 3 was still watchable in watching a giant pile of money burn up satisfaction way. Then season 4 had "non-binary" character and its nauseating "boyfriend" featured as major portions of the plot and I could no longer handle it.
Of course I was more tolerant when it came out. Now I would have turned it off and erased it from the Plex server at the first homo scene.