This whole thing has been hilarious to watch from the sidelines, watching the mental gymnastics of the left try to justify an actual Nazi being honoured.
It's amazing to hear the ultra-progressives spewing 'far right talking points.' Keep it up, retards, amusing me this much is the most useful you've ever been.
What "dues" does he owe, and how are they paid by throwing a man in prison for the last couple years of his life?
But if that's the standard by which "civilized" people act, then that's fine. I hope to live long enough to see a 98 year-old retired pharmacist hanged for refusing to fill an Ivermectin prescription in 2020.
All anyone knows about history seems to be "muh Nazis bad".
The Soviets caused the Holodomr in the Ukraine less than 30 years before WWII. They systemically killed more than three times the number of people who were killed in the Holocaust and the whole operation was led by a Jew (Lazar).
If people are going to condemn a hundred year old man for fighting for his people, they'd better have the same attitude towards current day Jews genociding Palestians.
It's come up many times that Ukrainian Nazis are torturing people to death, shooting fleeing civilians, and committing war crimes against POWs, but this dude is suddenly just "fighting for his people"... because he's more closely linked with Hitler's Nazis. LOL
Some of you may have been staring into the void too long.
The Soviets caused the Holodomr in the Ukraine less than 30 years before WWII
Less than 10 years actually. You don't sound particularly well informed.
They systemically killed more than three times the number of people who were killed in the Holocaust
How many?
and the whole operation was led by a Jew (Lazar).
"Lazar"? You on a first name basis with murderous communists, or is that the only part of the name you know? I assume you mean Lazar Kaganovich. It's funny that you blame everyone except "Joseph", the Georgian at the top.
If people are going to condemn a hundred year old man for fighting for his people
This guy wasn't even from the Soviet part of Ukraine. He was born in Poland. And he was fighting for the people who were trying to exterminate Slavs in general. That's not "fighting for your people".
they'd better have the same attitude towards current day Jews genociding Palestians.
There's definitely a couple problems with this. Figures from the holodomor range anywhere between 4-10 million, so this would even be more than twice the deaths in the holocaust, if you were only counting jews alone. It seems like the more closely accepted number is around five, which would be at least comparable. The greatest difference here would be scope, as one involved most of Europe, and the other involved Ukraine in particular. That could have an effect on per capita rates; but I doubt those would be useful because one has an international scope, and the other has a national scope.
And as AoV said, there is a disingenuous attempt to ignore the fact that the orders were still coming from Stalin.
All that being said, it's hard to tell if it is proper disinformation, so won't be removed.
The multitude of Holocaust museums (including quite a number in the US) and half of the German nation suffering under Communism was never enough I reckon?
Nuremberg and additional trials of the time only convicted 179 people (with 37 of those being executed), but I guess we need to be hunting those who were SS members from a lifetime ago now? Statue of limitations, buddy.
(Edit: The number leaves out the other warcrime trials, like for Dachau etc, contemporary and long ex post facto, but it should be noted that a lot arrested didn't see trial)
I don't support prosecuting this man for mere affiliation with the SS, but are you seriously arguing that mass murderers should not be punished because some museums were erected to their crimes?
I didn't know that if 1/4 of Germans suffer under communism, that somehow pardons mass murders committed by Ukrainians. I guess Stalin is now pardoned because 100% of Germans and 40% of Soviets suffered under Nazism.
That's not what I was arguing. I was arguing against someone being persecuted by simple association.
As I said, I agree with that - unless evidence of serious crimes comes up.
Maybe I prefaced it badly, but don't put words in my mouth.
My bad if I misread you, but I still think it is a pretty weird argument. Surely, the existence of holocaust museums has nothing at all to do with whether or not it's a good idea to prosecute this man. Maybe you meant: this is symbolic, maybe it'd have been a point worth making if people were very uninformed, but they're not and a good deal of attention is paid to it, citing ...
Yup, I hope it doesn't happen. He was probably involved in some bad shit. But it was a very long time ago, and sending someone essentially a century old to prison is pretty fucked up. He's not going to reoffend...although the mental picture is hilarious. Genocidal ancient grandpa...what does he think he is, in government or something?
I don't care. If you're a Nazi or a communist or whatever, and you're a hundred years old, you should get a pass. Just like that concentration camp secretary lady should have gotten. Nazis did bad shit, but hunting down the Nazis and Nazi-adjacent from way back when is pretty messed up, in my opinion.
I love that this happened with the Canadians, because it's fucking hilarious, but I hope there's no legal blowback on this guy. If they are serious about extradition, I hope lawyers can drag it out until he dies naturally, at least. Leave the dude along, except to use him to laugh at the retarded libs.
The reason our ancestors allowed soldiers to put down their rifles and go home was to prevent wars from becoming Total Wars.
I'm not sure you're right there. Total war is the mobilization of the entire society, which is a development starting in 1793 with the levee-en-masse of the French Revolution - at least in modern times.
I think you mean: soldiers are allowed to surrender, because otherwise they would fight to the death. And that is indeed a very good reason to take prisoners and to treat them humanely. Like Sun Tzu said: make a golden bridge for your enemy's retreat.
That said, I fully support the Americans who committed the war crime of killing the camp guards at Dachau. SS soldiers were bad guys almost to a man (some were forcibly conscripted, so not all) and should not have been allowed to surrender, but obviously, great powers don't care about morality of any kind.
It's barely a step away from those old court trials where a corpse was dug up and put on trial for their crimes against the Kingdom. The flailing of an illegitimate power.
If any specific crimes can credibly be attributed to him, that's one thing, and then I really don't care that "that was like four days ago, five days ago". But if it's trying to prosecute him for being a member for an organization that they don't like, even a heinous and criminal one like the SS, that's quite a different matter.
May have thought the fact he was going to be paraded out meant they'd defend him from this sort of thing and failed to realize these are not honorable men.
On one hand there's no point prosecuting a 98 year old for anything, but on the other hand it's really funny to watch everything about what's happened here so far.
To most normal people, it's absolutely understandable why Ukrainians would have fought with the Germans against the Russians in WW2. But the modern left live in a world of black and white, where there are never any excuses good enough, and a single action is enough to permanently make you a nazi collaborator. Until it doesn't matter because it's inconvenient.
Rare L for Poland. Prosecuting a 98-year-old man for mere affiliation is rather draconian, unless it can be proven that he committed atrocities.
That said, the people who want to jail basically everyone somehow make an exception for actual Nazis. As usual. They don't mind Nazism, what they don't want is opposition.
I don't actually care about the old man (this is politics) but it's amazing how all these NGOs are nothing but shells for the regime. If Trudeau wanted an old man extradited and hanged, the "Anti-Hate Network" would be talking about how that man personally led a thousand Jews to their deaths.
And they're fairly open about it. Whenever I've checked funding of these NGOs, and they proudly publish it on their website, it's one US empire government after another.
It's like watching alternate reality television. So long as I am pro-ukraine, I guess I am free to naz it up.
White power bros!
"What the fuck did you just say?!"
Ah, hold on! (takes out a miniature ukraine flag and waves it between two fingers)
"Oooooh, okay."
That's literally what id-politics is about
I swear I've seen a PebbleYeet comic do exactly this.
This whole thing has been hilarious to watch from the sidelines, watching the mental gymnastics of the left try to justify an actual Nazi being honoured.
It's amazing to hear the ultra-progressives spewing 'far right talking points.' Keep it up, retards, amusing me this much is the most useful you've ever been.
I feel bad for the 98 year-old guy who's going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
He lived a long time as a free man. Time to pay his dues.
What "dues" does he owe, and how are they paid by throwing a man in prison for the last couple years of his life?
But if that's the standard by which "civilized" people act, then that's fine. I hope to live long enough to see a 98 year-old retired pharmacist hanged for refusing to fill an Ivermectin prescription in 2020.
His dues? For being a good man and killing communists?
All anyone knows about history seems to be "muh Nazis bad".
The Soviets caused the Holodomr in the Ukraine less than 30 years before WWII. They systemically killed more than three times the number of people who were killed in the Holocaust and the whole operation was led by a Jew (Lazar).
If people are going to condemn a hundred year old man for fighting for his people, they'd better have the same attitude towards current day Jews genociding Palestians.
Muh Soviets doesn't mean Nazis aren't bad.
It's come up many times that Ukrainian Nazis are torturing people to death, shooting fleeing civilians, and committing war crimes against POWs, but this dude is suddenly just "fighting for his people"... because he's more closely linked with Hitler's Nazis. LOL
Some of you may have been staring into the void too long.
edit: if you downvote me, you just hate Poles
He's actually ethnically German. I hope he's alright, he's a good guy notwithstanding his Ukraine craziness.
No, I think those people started out being Nazis, and that they parasitically attach themselves to any community that allows free speech.
Less than 10 years actually. You don't sound particularly well informed.
How many?
"Lazar"? You on a first name basis with murderous communists, or is that the only part of the name you know? I assume you mean Lazar Kaganovich. It's funny that you blame everyone except "Joseph", the Georgian at the top.
This guy wasn't even from the Soviet part of Ukraine. He was born in Poland. And he was fighting for the people who were trying to exterminate Slavs in general. That's not "fighting for your people".
Genocide? Are you retarded?
Comment Reported for:
This isn't an identity attack
There's definitely a couple problems with this. Figures from the holodomor range anywhere between 4-10 million, so this would even be more than twice the deaths in the holocaust, if you were only counting jews alone. It seems like the more closely accepted number is around five, which would be at least comparable. The greatest difference here would be scope, as one involved most of Europe, and the other involved Ukraine in particular. That could have an effect on per capita rates; but I doubt those would be useful because one has an international scope, and the other has a national scope.
And as AoV said, there is a disingenuous attempt to ignore the fact that the orders were still coming from Stalin.
All that being said, it's hard to tell if it is proper disinformation, so won't be removed.
You have more than a few screws loose.
Explain how killing conscripts in the Red Army and butchering Poles and Jews is 'killing communists'.
The multitude of Holocaust museums (including quite a number in the US) and half of the German nation suffering under Communism was never enough I reckon?
Nuremberg and additional trials of the time only convicted 179 people (with 37 of those being executed), but I guess we need to be hunting those who were SS members from a lifetime ago now? Statue of limitations, buddy.
(Edit: The number leaves out the other warcrime trials, like for Dachau etc, contemporary and long ex post facto, but it should be noted that a lot arrested didn't see trial)
I don't support prosecuting this man for mere affiliation with the SS, but are you seriously arguing that mass murderers should not be punished because some museums were erected to their crimes?
I didn't know that if 1/4 of Germans suffer under communism, that somehow pardons mass murders committed by Ukrainians. I guess Stalin is now pardoned because 100% of Germans and 40% of Soviets suffered under Nazism.
That's not what I was arguing. I was arguing against someone being persecuted by simple association.
Maybe I prefaced it badly, but don't put words in my mouth.
As I said, I agree with that - unless evidence of serious crimes comes up.
My bad if I misread you, but I still think it is a pretty weird argument. Surely, the existence of holocaust museums has nothing at all to do with whether or not it's a good idea to prosecute this man. Maybe you meant: this is symbolic, maybe it'd have been a point worth making if people were very uninformed, but they're not and a good deal of attention is paid to it, citing ...
You can't say this guy was simply "associated" when there are pictures of him with the regiment armed and reports of him participating in the battles.
Maybe the reports aren't accurate, but he wasn't the supply clerk.
Maybe something short of massacre of Polish civilians.
Yup, I hope it doesn't happen. He was probably involved in some bad shit. But it was a very long time ago, and sending someone essentially a century old to prison is pretty fucked up. He's not going to reoffend...although the mental picture is hilarious. Genocidal ancient grandpa...what does he think he is, in government or something?
I don't care. If you're a Nazi or a communist or whatever, and you're a hundred years old, you should get a pass. Just like that concentration camp secretary lady should have gotten. Nazis did bad shit, but hunting down the Nazis and Nazi-adjacent from way back when is pretty messed up, in my opinion.
I love that this happened with the Canadians, because it's fucking hilarious, but I hope there's no legal blowback on this guy. If they are serious about extradition, I hope lawyers can drag it out until he dies naturally, at least. Leave the dude along, except to use him to laugh at the retarded libs.
The reason our ancestors allowed soldiers to put down their rifles and go home was to prevent wars from becoming Total Wars.
The end result of this will be that all wars against the GAE will become Total Wars.
I'm not sure you're right there. Total war is the mobilization of the entire society, which is a development starting in 1793 with the levee-en-masse of the French Revolution - at least in modern times.
I think you mean: soldiers are allowed to surrender, because otherwise they would fight to the death. And that is indeed a very good reason to take prisoners and to treat them humanely. Like Sun Tzu said: make a golden bridge for your enemy's retreat.
That said, I fully support the Americans who committed the war crime of killing the camp guards at Dachau. SS soldiers were bad guys almost to a man (some were forcibly conscripted, so not all) and should not have been allowed to surrender, but obviously, great powers don't care about morality of any kind.
It's barely a step away from those old court trials where a corpse was dug up and put on trial for their crimes against the Kingdom. The flailing of an illegitimate power.
If any specific crimes can credibly be attributed to him, that's one thing, and then I really don't care that "that was like four days ago, five days ago". But if it's trying to prosecute him for being a member for an organization that they don't like, even a heinous and criminal one like the SS, that's quite a different matter.
Quite unlikely, I doubt that he's going to be extradited.
I hope you are right, but I have no doubt everyone involved would gladly throw him under the bus if it would save their own hides.
Definitely, but their hides are not at risk. They get away with everything.
May have thought the fact he was going to be paraded out meant they'd defend him from this sort of thing and failed to realize these are not honorable men.
"You fucked up! You trusted us!"
I mean, he probably figured that it would go exactly as it went - with people giving him a standing ovation for fighting against ze evil Russians.
On one hand there's no point prosecuting a 98 year old for anything, but on the other hand it's really funny to watch everything about what's happened here so far.
To most normal people, it's absolutely understandable why Ukrainians would have fought with the Germans against the Russians in WW2. But the modern left live in a world of black and white, where there are never any excuses good enough, and a single action is enough to permanently make you a nazi collaborator. Until it doesn't matter because it's inconvenient.
They love to compliment each other about nuance, while everything we talk about is pure black and white friend/enemy division.
The left falling over themselves trying to decide how to defend this while condemning it has been the most entertaining thing I've seen this year.
By the way, has anyone been held accountable for those fabricated indigenous mass graves? Any apologies?
Rare L for Poland. Prosecuting a 98-year-old man for mere affiliation is rather draconian, unless it can be proven that he committed atrocities.
That said, the people who want to jail basically everyone somehow make an exception for actual Nazis. As usual. They don't mind Nazism, what they don't want is opposition.
I don't actually care about the old man (this is politics) but it's amazing how all these NGOs are nothing but shells for the regime. If Trudeau wanted an old man extradited and hanged, the "Anti-Hate Network" would be talking about how that man personally led a thousand Jews to their deaths.
And they're fairly open about it. Whenever I've checked funding of these NGOs, and they proudly publish it on their website, it's one US empire government after another.
And a increasingly common L for AoV.
Explain why you disagree with that comment.