The left hates the police because the police occasionally protect normal people from the left. The right hates the police because they protect leftists from the right. We are not the same.
As someone closer to a libertarian, I hate cops because they are government employees with guns, and sometimes they very clearly act like it by abusing innocent people; while taking a responsibility away from the militia that we should all be made to involve ourselves in.
Abolish ICE? That's a worse idea, a million times worse. It doesn't distinguish between citizens and non-citizens so it's a globalist idea. It wouldn't be effective either since the cartels run a sophisticated trafficking operation, far too difficult for random people to police on their spare time.
I'm fine with shooting trespassers who are citizens.
But yeah you would always need some kind of collective protection division staffed by trained professionals. Randy in his backyard with a rifle isn't going to stand up against the cartels. Naturally we also need to abolish the NFA so it would be Randy in his backyard with an M2A1, but still...
Not sure how you concluded that citizens and non-citizens wouldn't be distinguished by citizens, the community, and the militia.
True, the cartels run a sophisticated operation, and so did the French in their occupation of Algiers. No organization, not even a sophisticated government and military, can really win a war against a genuinely mobilized population without literally killing the entire population: and good luck not expecting blow-back from that.
Citizens and non-citizens are grouped into the category "trespassers" under your system. You make no distinction between some teenage punk sneaking onto a farm to go cow tipping or something and a thousand-person migrant caravan. They're all just reduced to "trespassers."
Why would you deliberately fight a war with civilians instead of the military?
Yes. And I have a right to remove them from my property. And my neighbor has a right to remove him from his property. And if he doesn't get the message, we can set up a posse and physically remove him from our property.
Respect borders, and there won't be problems.
Why would you deliberately fight a war with civilians instead of the military?
The people will defend their homes with the tenacity of the most aggressive soldiers, because of the value they are fighting for. The professional soldier, is a very well trained, very well equipped, possibly indoctrinated... mercenary. There's no way around it. Only a standing, professional, well-paid, army will go into foreign lands to invade them. But the militia will almost never do that. The militia simply won't allow itself to be used as an offensive mechanism because each member has more important things to do... until their actual homes and communities are threatened.
I could point you to the Battle of Saratoga, Concord, or Bunker Hill, but I could just point out that the US has repeatedly lost wars against militias, like Vietnam and Afghanistan.
...Did you sleep through 2020 when they were arresting people for sitting on the beach or parking their car in a lot on the side of the road to eat lunch? Or sending out the SWAT APC for a couple guys standing outside a bar drinking beer?
They weren't so tough when the 2020 race riots started and they had to deal with rocks and Molotovs instead of retirees on the beach.
no, gay commies hate cops because they occasionally provide consequences to the anti-social behavior of blacks
normal people hate cops because the fact that they have to deal with opportunistic blacks all day made many cops paranoid, jumpy, unpredictable assholes who arbitrarily enforce retarded laws
cops in mostly White areas have the luxury of acting like humans and not occupying soldiers
Police are entirely unnecessary in a society of civilized people.
Then the government decided to throw open the doors to uncivilized people. Then the bleeding hearts decided to throw open the doors of insane asylums. Then hollywood decided to program people to believe lies about diversity.
Congrats, now we "need" police. Now that we have the "required" police, they're here to stamp their boots on civilized and uncivilized people both. The only modern change is that their masters have discouraged them from dealing with the uncivilized which was the whole point of their existence in the first place.
I do not think it is possible for humanity to achieve a civilization so civilized that police are not needed. rather, police in a hyper-civilized society would not need to be armed and their job would not be considered life-risking. however, they would be necessary in order to protect the local community from outside threats and to clarify minor disputes over property.
Sheriffs are elected by the local people. That is a far cry from the modern police state with standing police forces that rival most countries' armies.
Mexico is a place where many people exercise their right to bear arms, despite the fact that doing so is heavily illegal in the country. I do not consider that a safe place.
Being heavily illegal in the country is the problem. This means only criminals are exercising their right to bear arms while the law abiding are discouraged from doing so.
No, that's too far. Look, I'm all for an armed populace, but I still want a standing peacetime military to mobilize against a fast aggressor. Especially with modern weapons and technology.
Same thing goes for crime. When shit goes well and truly sideways, I want someone with Bearcats, helicopters, and automatic weapons to defeat whatever enemy has appeared. I can't really rely on the militia to have that. Unless, of course, you have some kind of permanently standing militia, which would effect the same idea as police.
Your scenario only works for small towns where everyone knows each other. In a large enough city even among civilized folk there will always be disputes and you can't always be sure who is wandering through, and normal people are too busy with work to police the city themselves.
For large cities with peaceful residents (not the kinds of cities we have today), I sometimes wonder if the best setup would be a massive smart camera network - not run by a government, just a publicly accessible network - and voluntary police/militia groups. Or maybe those voluntary police would end up like jannies and moderate everyone to an annoying degree.
Fuck The Police is the one thing I wholeheartedly agree with the left on. The difference is that my "Fuck The Police" is not conditional on whether they're Federal agents investigating Trump for political reasons or county sheriff's deputies conducting illegal searches of your car. Fuck all of them with a splintery wooden dildo.
The thing you need to understand about "defund the police" is that it's not about abolishing law enforcement. It's about getting rid of local police and replacing them with federal law enforcement. That is a terrible thing and will quickly lead to numerous and horrendous abuses of the people.
I honestly don't know as there are definitely people in the world who need to be kept away from other people. If we don't have police to tackle the front end of that problem then by necessity we must end up with a posse, yes?
I wouldn't know, I've never had that experience. My local police actually protects our community and I've never had an issue with them, and neither have my neighbors.
They deserve all of it and more. I can't say how much more without violating rule 2.
It is the one belief that I've still maintained even after I stopped being a leftist.
That being:
The police aren't your friend, they were never your friend, they are jackboots of the state who would gladly choose their paycheck over peoples God-given rights (and in some cases, peoples' lives). If they were given the order to perform door-to-door confiscations, they would do it no questions asked.
Hell, they showed themselves willing to blockade people from escaping a massive conflagration on the Hawaiian island of Maui (of the people caught in traffic trying to get away, only the people who got out of their cars and ran past the blockade on foot survived, whereas those who stayed in their cars basically got cremated alive). You also have a perfect demonstration of where their true loyalties lie with the 2020 race riots, where they arrested people defending themselves and/or their property, while letting BLM/Antifa running around completely unopposed, or worse, protecting politicians' homes and no one else.
Further still, there are also legitimate cases of police brutality that have gone completely unpunished (and/or unnoticed), both far back and in the more recent past (Fentanyl Floyd notwithstanding).
Policing should be left to citizens. If you don't trust average citizens to police themselves then you need to start questioning what kinds of people are in your society and whether they belong in your society or not.
it's not a global or even countrywide issue. police are a local issue and should be thought of as such.
police do need to exist because there will always need to be a profession for enforcing common law (no stealing, no murdering, etc).
Whether or not your police are a problem and deserve the hate depends entirely on how your local police act, how your local police jurisdiction is run, and how your local politicians fund and encourage your local police.
Police didn't exist before London got its police department in the 1800s. How did people survive before corporate police standing armies were the norm?
Based on what I know from only this video, I'll say people are right. I'm always on the side of the cops not wasting time on victimless crimes. I don't know where this is, but you're telling me they don't have something else to do? Are all the gangs still shooting each other? Are all the thefts resolved? I've had hit and runs and thefts happen to me and the police didn't even bother to collect evidence and were often dicks about me even bothering them at all.
It would have been plenty good enough to just diffuse and even if they have to arrest the guy a simple misdemeanor, night in jail, free to go come back and pay a fine. Cops don't seem mentally capable of doing that, they have to throw the book at someone because that's what gives them their jollies.
Things that would change my opinion would be something like this guy was driving down the middle of the freeway, etc.
A friend of mine got a DUI about a decade ago. As he described it, the legal process was a sort of "choose your own adventure" where every outcome resulted in about the same restrictions and dollar amount spent by the accused.
If you did nothing and just pled guilty, you'd pay about a $10k fine, they'd yank your license for a time, and you have some restrictions on your license once you got it back.
If you retained a lawyer, the DA filed all sorts of motions to ensure that the total fines + legal fees ended up being about $10k. Maybe the lawyer was able to negotiate down the duration of restrictions or get one or two minor ones knocked down (eg. being able to drive to/from work instead of a blanket license yank).
At the end of it he wondered why he even got the lawyer in the first place, but it was one of those things where once you go down a path you can't turn around and try the other one instead.
They're only beginning to see the hate they've deserved for a long, long time. How often do I have to say that the Police departments are nothing but government backed gangs more interested in extracting money from the citizenry than actually protecting them?
Police I think are too centralized in their current form. A more diverse (hah) policeforce, in that they're actually from all the specific boroughs they... police, I think would work better than bringing in outsiders, even if "outsider" is only "they live 5 miles away". 5 miles is a lot of miles, the entire social landscape can shift in 5 miles. They can use a centralized dispatch center, or prison, or containment area, sure, but I think, wherever possible, policing of an area should be the "responsibility" of that area, and cops should be from the area they police, as accurately as possible.
If some place needs a lot more cops, get the army. Enemies foreign and domestic. That's what they're there for. Solving local problems locally gives more empathy, more opportunity to understand the circumstances, and suggest more useful sentencing. Right now, cops are just tools of the state-level (or province level for those non-Freedomers out there) administration, not actually participants in the local ecosystem.
So it makes sense they get pushback (or hate), because they're acting in a way that is jarring with the area's sensibilities, since the cops aren't from that area. Whether they deserve it or not is a different question of course, but I can see that causing some great amount of the dislike.
EDIT: Ultimately, cops are tools. There is no point in hating on a hammer or a chisel or a fancy laser-guided 3d sculpture thing. Any scorn, or praise, should be on the organizations that utilize these tools, at least from a morality standpoint. You can praise a tool for being good quality, or condemn it for being kinda shitty, but that's not a moral assessment, and "people" are hating on cops on a moral level, when it is hardly the cops deciding these things that are being done.
For large population centres to exist, you need some kind of central authority to dictate common rules to ensure stability and social cohesion. The police have been shown NOT to be this as they are too easily corrupted by politics, bribes and ideology.
Being honest, if we could replace the police in urban areas with drones whether flying with guns or literal humanoid robots looking like they came out of battlestar galatica with a binary set of laws (this person is trying to kill people, neutralise person) it would be a massive improvement. Urban areas need 'Judge Dredd' style enforcement to ensure that large numbers are too fearful of retribution to use numbers against innocent people.
In rural areas police can be more an extention of a militia because they know everyone there so their task can be mostly ensuring the town delinquents are kept out of trouble and watching outsiders.
Hey, remember when the Uvalde police were standing around doing nothing to stop to psychopath shooting up an elementary school? You know, while preventing parents from trying to save their children?
Yes, the police fucking deserve hate because they are government fucking thugs who will bash your fucking head in given the order and this idea of "if you don't like the police, you're a commie faggot leftard" needs to fucking die.
I haven't watched the video, but as to the question you're posing, it's not so black and white. But yes, because cops monopolize force and use it against you to protect the interests of the state. Very few of them break ranks when they're told to oppress citizens.
Cops are necessary and they're not bad in a political vacuum, if kept in check with regulations, but under a hostile regime they are little more than troops mobilized against the citizens they're supposed to protect.
Sadly the better cops have all been run off the force for not blindly obeying when they told them to arrest people for not masking and all the blm/Marxist shit.
There was a massive shift in police staffing after covid. The general rule was more normal or old school cops left and rabid leftists and npc cops stayed on.
The left hates the police because the police occasionally protect normal people from the left. The right hates the police because they protect leftists from the right. We are not the same.
As someone closer to a libertarian, I hate cops because they are government employees with guns, and sometimes they very clearly act like it by abusing innocent people; while taking a responsibility away from the militia that we should all be made to involve ourselves in.
If they used said guns to defend the border, that would be fine by me.
I have a better idea: what if you allow private persons the right to defend their property from trespassers
Abolish ICE? That's a worse idea, a million times worse. It doesn't distinguish between citizens and non-citizens so it's a globalist idea. It wouldn't be effective either since the cartels run a sophisticated trafficking operation, far too difficult for random people to police on their spare time.
I'm fine with shooting trespassers who are citizens.
But yeah you would always need some kind of collective protection division staffed by trained professionals. Randy in his backyard with a rifle isn't going to stand up against the cartels. Naturally we also need to abolish the NFA so it would be Randy in his backyard with an M2A1, but still...
Not sure how you concluded that citizens and non-citizens wouldn't be distinguished by citizens, the community, and the militia.
True, the cartels run a sophisticated operation, and so did the French in their occupation of Algiers. No organization, not even a sophisticated government and military, can really win a war against a genuinely mobilized population without literally killing the entire population: and good luck not expecting blow-back from that.
Citizens and non-citizens are grouped into the category "trespassers" under your system. You make no distinction between some teenage punk sneaking onto a farm to go cow tipping or something and a thousand-person migrant caravan. They're all just reduced to "trespassers."
Why would you deliberately fight a war with civilians instead of the military?
Yes. And I have a right to remove them from my property. And my neighbor has a right to remove him from his property. And if he doesn't get the message, we can set up a posse and physically remove him from our property.
Respect borders, and there won't be problems.
The people will defend their homes with the tenacity of the most aggressive soldiers, because of the value they are fighting for. The professional soldier, is a very well trained, very well equipped, possibly indoctrinated... mercenary. There's no way around it. Only a standing, professional, well-paid, army will go into foreign lands to invade them. But the militia will almost never do that. The militia simply won't allow itself to be used as an offensive mechanism because each member has more important things to do... until their actual homes and communities are threatened.
I could point you to the Battle of Saratoga, Concord, or Bunker Hill, but I could just point out that the US has repeatedly lost wars against militias, like Vietnam and Afghanistan.
...Did you sleep through 2020 when they were arresting people for sitting on the beach or parking their car in a lot on the side of the road to eat lunch? Or sending out the SWAT APC for a couple guys standing outside a bar drinking beer?
They weren't so tough when the 2020 race riots started and they had to deal with rocks and Molotovs instead of retirees on the beach.
The brave and bold Uvalde police heroically holding back parents from trying to selfishly save their children from the noble school shooters!
no, gay commies hate cops because they occasionally provide consequences to the anti-social behavior of blacks
normal people hate cops because the fact that they have to deal with opportunistic blacks all day made many cops paranoid, jumpy, unpredictable assholes who arbitrarily enforce retarded laws
cops in mostly White areas have the luxury of acting like humans and not occupying soldiers
Even in the whitest areas most good cops have been replaced by order following zog bots.
Police are entirely unnecessary in a society of civilized people.
Then the government decided to throw open the doors to uncivilized people. Then the bleeding hearts decided to throw open the doors of insane asylums. Then hollywood decided to program people to believe lies about diversity.
Congrats, now we "need" police. Now that we have the "required" police, they're here to stamp their boots on civilized and uncivilized people both. The only modern change is that their masters have discouraged them from dealing with the uncivilized which was the whole point of their existence in the first place.
I do not think it is possible for humanity to achieve a civilization so civilized that police are not needed. rather, police in a hyper-civilized society would not need to be armed and their job would not be considered life-risking. however, they would be necessary in order to protect the local community from outside threats and to clarify minor disputes over property.
If everyone exercised their right to bear arms, police would not be needed.
Sheriffs are elected by the local people. That is a far cry from the modern police state with standing police forces that rival most countries' armies.
Mexico is a place where many people exercise their right to bear arms, despite the fact that doing so is heavily illegal in the country. I do not consider that a safe place.
Being heavily illegal in the country is the problem. This means only criminals are exercising their right to bear arms while the law abiding are discouraged from doing so.
No, that's too far. Look, I'm all for an armed populace, but I still want a standing peacetime military to mobilize against a fast aggressor. Especially with modern weapons and technology.
Same thing goes for crime. When shit goes well and truly sideways, I want someone with Bearcats, helicopters, and automatic weapons to defeat whatever enemy has appeared. I can't really rely on the militia to have that. Unless, of course, you have some kind of permanently standing militia, which would effect the same idea as police.
Your scenario only works for small towns where everyone knows each other. In a large enough city even among civilized folk there will always be disputes and you can't always be sure who is wandering through, and normal people are too busy with work to police the city themselves.
For large cities with peaceful residents (not the kinds of cities we have today), I sometimes wonder if the best setup would be a massive smart camera network - not run by a government, just a publicly accessible network - and voluntary police/militia groups. Or maybe those voluntary police would end up like jannies and moderate everyone to an annoying degree.
Yes.
Fuck The Police is the one thing I wholeheartedly agree with the left on. The difference is that my "Fuck The Police" is not conditional on whether they're Federal agents investigating Trump for political reasons or county sheriff's deputies conducting illegal searches of your car. Fuck all of them with a splintery wooden dildo.
The thing you need to understand about "defund the police" is that it's not about abolishing law enforcement. It's about getting rid of local police and replacing them with federal law enforcement. That is a terrible thing and will quickly lead to numerous and horrendous abuses of the people.
This. Antifa doesn't oppose the police. They want to be the police.
They hate law enforcement. They want to be political enforcement.
I honestly don't know as there are definitely people in the world who need to be kept away from other people. If we don't have police to tackle the front end of that problem then by necessity we must end up with a posse, yes?
spoken like a criminal
Spoken like a boomercon who likes licking authoritarian boots before they get shoved onto your neck.
I wouldn't know, I've never had that experience. My local police actually protects our community and I've never had an issue with them, and neither have my neighbors.
Good for you.
They deserve all of it and more. I can't say how much more without violating rule 2.
It is the one belief that I've still maintained even after I stopped being a leftist.
That being:
The police aren't your friend, they were never your friend, they are jackboots of the state who would gladly choose their paycheck over peoples God-given rights (and in some cases, peoples' lives). If they were given the order to perform door-to-door confiscations, they would do it no questions asked.
Hell, they showed themselves willing to blockade people from escaping a massive conflagration on the Hawaiian island of Maui (of the people caught in traffic trying to get away, only the people who got out of their cars and ran past the blockade on foot survived, whereas those who stayed in their cars basically got cremated alive). You also have a perfect demonstration of where their true loyalties lie with the 2020 race riots, where they arrested people defending themselves and/or their property, while letting BLM/Antifa running around completely unopposed, or worse, protecting politicians' homes and no one else.
Further still, there are also legitimate cases of police brutality that have gone completely unpunished (and/or unnoticed), both far back and in the more recent past (Fentanyl Floyd notwithstanding).
Policing should be left to citizens. If you don't trust average citizens to police themselves then you need to start questioning what kinds of people are in your society and whether they belong in your society or not.
it's not a global or even countrywide issue. police are a local issue and should be thought of as such.
police do need to exist because there will always need to be a profession for enforcing common law (no stealing, no murdering, etc).
Whether or not your police are a problem and deserve the hate depends entirely on how your local police act, how your local police jurisdiction is run, and how your local politicians fund and encourage your local police.
Police didn't exist before London got its police department in the 1800s. How did people survive before corporate police standing armies were the norm?
Based on what I know from only this video, I'll say people are right. I'm always on the side of the cops not wasting time on victimless crimes. I don't know where this is, but you're telling me they don't have something else to do? Are all the gangs still shooting each other? Are all the thefts resolved? I've had hit and runs and thefts happen to me and the police didn't even bother to collect evidence and were often dicks about me even bothering them at all.
It would have been plenty good enough to just diffuse and even if they have to arrest the guy a simple misdemeanor, night in jail, free to go come back and pay a fine. Cops don't seem mentally capable of doing that, they have to throw the book at someone because that's what gives them their jollies.
Things that would change my opinion would be something like this guy was driving down the middle of the freeway, etc.
A friend of mine got a DUI about a decade ago. As he described it, the legal process was a sort of "choose your own adventure" where every outcome resulted in about the same restrictions and dollar amount spent by the accused.
If you did nothing and just pled guilty, you'd pay about a $10k fine, they'd yank your license for a time, and you have some restrictions on your license once you got it back.
If you retained a lawyer, the DA filed all sorts of motions to ensure that the total fines + legal fees ended up being about $10k. Maybe the lawyer was able to negotiate down the duration of restrictions or get one or two minor ones knocked down (eg. being able to drive to/from work instead of a blanket license yank).
At the end of it he wondered why he even got the lawyer in the first place, but it was one of those things where once you go down a path you can't turn around and try the other one instead.
They're only beginning to see the hate they've deserved for a long, long time. How often do I have to say that the Police departments are nothing but government backed gangs more interested in extracting money from the citizenry than actually protecting them?
There are reasons to hate specific police but the communist "fuck 12 acab kill pigs" people are wrong and retarded.
Police I think are too centralized in their current form. A more diverse (hah) policeforce, in that they're actually from all the specific boroughs they... police, I think would work better than bringing in outsiders, even if "outsider" is only "they live 5 miles away". 5 miles is a lot of miles, the entire social landscape can shift in 5 miles. They can use a centralized dispatch center, or prison, or containment area, sure, but I think, wherever possible, policing of an area should be the "responsibility" of that area, and cops should be from the area they police, as accurately as possible.
If some place needs a lot more cops, get the army. Enemies foreign and domestic. That's what they're there for. Solving local problems locally gives more empathy, more opportunity to understand the circumstances, and suggest more useful sentencing. Right now, cops are just tools of the state-level (or province level for those non-Freedomers out there) administration, not actually participants in the local ecosystem.
So it makes sense they get pushback (or hate), because they're acting in a way that is jarring with the area's sensibilities, since the cops aren't from that area. Whether they deserve it or not is a different question of course, but I can see that causing some great amount of the dislike.
EDIT: Ultimately, cops are tools. There is no point in hating on a hammer or a chisel or a fancy laser-guided 3d sculpture thing. Any scorn, or praise, should be on the organizations that utilize these tools, at least from a morality standpoint. You can praise a tool for being good quality, or condemn it for being kinda shitty, but that's not a moral assessment, and "people" are hating on cops on a moral level, when it is hardly the cops deciding these things that are being done.
For large population centres to exist, you need some kind of central authority to dictate common rules to ensure stability and social cohesion. The police have been shown NOT to be this as they are too easily corrupted by politics, bribes and ideology.
Being honest, if we could replace the police in urban areas with drones whether flying with guns or literal humanoid robots looking like they came out of battlestar galatica with a binary set of laws (this person is trying to kill people, neutralise person) it would be a massive improvement. Urban areas need 'Judge Dredd' style enforcement to ensure that large numbers are too fearful of retribution to use numbers against innocent people.
In rural areas police can be more an extention of a militia because they know everyone there so their task can be mostly ensuring the town delinquents are kept out of trouble and watching outsiders.
Hey, remember when the Uvalde police were standing around doing nothing to stop to psychopath shooting up an elementary school? You know, while preventing parents from trying to save their children?
Yes, the police fucking deserve hate because they are government fucking thugs who will bash your fucking head in given the order and this idea of "if you don't like the police, you're a commie faggot leftard" needs to fucking die.
I haven't watched the video, but as to the question you're posing, it's not so black and white. But yes, because cops monopolize force and use it against you to protect the interests of the state. Very few of them break ranks when they're told to oppress citizens.
Cops are necessary and they're not bad in a political vacuum, if kept in check with regulations, but under a hostile regime they are little more than troops mobilized against the citizens they're supposed to protect.
I haven't made up my mind yet.
They also end up in corporate departments that are run top down by the same ideologues who run the DA office etc
Sadly the better cops have all been run off the force for not blindly obeying when they told them to arrest people for not masking and all the blm/Marxist shit.
There was a massive shift in police staffing after covid. The general rule was more normal or old school cops left and rabid leftists and npc cops stayed on.