Obviously we don't want to get into legal territory here, but I'm sure most men have been through this, on at least some "informal" level, at least previously...
The entire saga has taken place via text. I didn't say anything explicit, and was never given any indication that this individual was "uncomfortable". Literally no words were exchanged to that effect. In fact, most discussion was about our mutual studies. I had a slight feeling something was "off", from this girl's behaviour more broadly, but again, no direct indication was given...
Anyway, it has been some time since we had actually spoken, but today I am told that she has reported me to the University. Just informally, but the head of the student counselling department wants to pursue an investigation into me, lololol...
I have a record of the entire exchange. I haven't broken any laws, here, so unless there's some informal rule about "Her word against yours" (which I'm sure there probably is), I think I'm largely ok. Reputational damage is likely the main issue...
Anyway, like I said, in the court of "He said, she said", obviously they will side with her, but if this is a case based purely on "feelings", then who fucking knows how far she will get...
Just a fucking waste of my time. I've got so much other shit going on (my grandmother literally died two days ago, so to say this is low on my priority list..? Is an understatement), that I really just want to minimise impact, and get the fucking thing over with...
Eugh.
Yes, it's my own stupid fault for letting this one in. Yes, it's very High School. But like I said, I can calmly say that I did not actually do anything objectively wrong, here.
It is what it is, and I'm stuck with it. Like most college-age straight males who've had even the barest bit of experience, lol.
Do you have friends? Destroy this bitch's reputation and tell everyone you know about the shit she pulled.
You have the texts and they are innocuous right? make a throwaway and post them to reddit and show that this bitch tried to blow you up over nothing with a false accusation.
What did she report you for?
Making her feel "uncomfortable", apparently. One assumes from texting her twice more, some weeks apart, after being ghosted, to ask her perspective on an assignment for a subject I was taking, that she had previously taken.
Re the texts, yeah, maybe I will do that at some point...
Right now, she wants to "escalate" (lol), so I really don't want to do anything too unsubtle, yet...
Most dubious thing? This was a private conversation, carried out off campus, and yet the University went to the effort to track me down (I presume by reverse-matching my mobile number), and demand my testimony, via repeated phone calls and emails...
Like, I'm not sure that should happen.
We're both students, yes, but if it wasn't conducted over University property/email/in class, and clearly doesn't warrant law enforcement, then why the fuck have they dragged my position as a student into it..?
I guess it underlines that they are "taking it seriously", but also, the fuck?
So yeah, whatever happens, it's all a bit iffy...
You committed the crime of interacting with a woman while not being Chad.
Legit, yeah. This is pretty much it, lol…
Though “Fuck off, loser” would have saved us both a lot of time and effort… 🤷🏻♂️
Her excuse would be that she's afraid you'd "one in five" her.
Probably.
Look, it’s worth pointing out that this girl and I have had very little in-person interaction. I don’t know, nor care to find out, any more about her.
She literally could have blocked my number, and/or told me to shove off, and that would have been the end of it, but that’s not what happened.
I suppose she can claim that as a “legitimate” fear, but anyone looking at the interaction objectively should be able to see that possibility as pretty much beyond remote…
So there’s that, I guess.
It just shows this whole thing to be very fucking wacky…
I completely agree. I've actually asked some of the more insecure women I know if they actually walk around all day being genuinely afraid of men. Some have answered that they do. I simply don't understand how someone could walk around in fear of half the population. At that point, why even leave the house? Constant terror lol. The absolute state of western women.
I'd ask what the specific accusation was and what the proof there was and what, if any, university rule you are being accused of breaking.
Yeah, I've kind of just asked that now, actually...
It was astoundingly vague, which makes it seem even more wildly inappropriate, IMHO, that they reverse-matched my mobile number to my email and/or name...
It's all very informal. Their first email didn't even tell me who was accusing me, or indeed what I was accused of. And subsequent emails won't give specifics...
They won't even use the woman's full name!
Basically, they are unwilling to discuss, in writing, exactly what and why, and insist I do so over the phone next week. Which tells you a lot...
But hey, at least I'm not completely naïve as to these things, I suppose.
I imagine they were hoping for panic, and when they didn't get that, well... Who knows? Maybe they'll just drop it, lol.
Depends how much of everyone's time this bitch wants to waste, I guess.
Record everything.
You can choose whether you let them know you're recording it or not, depending on the recording laws in your state, but do NOT let it go unrecorded.
Major red flag. Record everything. Depending on your state, you may need to tell them you are recording.
You do not have to, and should not talk to them, if they refuse to be recorded.
Yeah, I’ve tried to get everything in writing, but obviously they are trying to avoid that…
I’ve sent them a detailed response with questions, before I am willing to do a phone call. Will have to see how that proceeds…
Honestly, they’ll probably just ignore it though, lol. It’s quite clear already that they don’t care about privacy or due process, so… Yeah.
Then avoid their requests. This isn't complicated.
Don't participate in their investigation, it's a trap. If it's like you said, no misconduct, you're fine. Even in the shitty kangaroo University courts, you're not responsible if someone merely feels uncomfortable.
If they try and play hardball, and there's nothing in any of their codes of conduct or agreements they make you sign, tell them as much, and that if they don't leave you alone you'll look into litigation against the school and you'll go to the right wing media that covers these sorts of false allegations from girls. Ask them if they really want to be the next story on Fox News.
Don't contact this girl again. That is the most important thing. You don't want to be hit with any harassment charges or obstruction of justice charges legally.
Look into getting a good lawyer to defend you You want capable legal representation in times like this even if the university doesn't bring in law enforcement.
It is very good that you have documentation of all your text messages.
I wish you the best of luck in beating false charges.
Oh yeah, I’m not stupid. I won’t be back in touch, lol.
I just… It seems so fucking pointless…
She has no legal argument that I can see, and yet the University clearly wants to rake me over the fucking coals…
As I’ve said, this occurred entirely external to our studies, and really has nothing to do with the University at all. And yet they’ve gone to the effort to tie my phone number back to me, and are now semi-formally investigating…
It’s just so… Shit, frankly.
They won’t even directly say what I’ve done “wrong”. Just that she felt “uncomfortable”, and that warrants an investigation.
No statement of policy. No evidence. Just hearsay…
Grr…
Doing this to you over mere hearsay is just atrocious.
A girl just feeling uncomfortable over a conversation outside of the university merits an actual investigation from the university?
I am sorry to hear that they are doing this horrible shit to you.
Universities in the western world have sadly become bastions of treating men unfairly.
I truly hope you can come out of this shit relatively unscathed.
I’ve had this before, in the “activist”/political sphere…
There’s a certain type of woman who will do this. But yeah, I would have thought Universities were “above” this sort of shit, frankly…
Previous experience: turned their colleagues/our mutual friends against me, and made me feel so uncomfortable that I stopped being “involved” in those groups…
That’s not really an option this time, though, obviously, so I will fight this, if it comes to the point of having to, formally…
Anyway, thanks man. I genuinely appreciate it!
It’s so fucking shit, frankly…
Eugh…
Dude, you haven't been paying attention ... universities invented this shit.
"A girl just feeling uncomfortable. . ."
That's a crime in and of itself lately.
Civil suit for the cost of time, tuition and "emotional distress" (as evidenced here as you are clearly troubled by this event), plus whatever punishment uni decides to levy against you. Hit her and the school and keep the name Oberlin College available...
He doesn't need a lawyer (unless he's planning on suing the school) because these aren't accusations of committing a crime, it's just one of those informal fake school investigations. They don't follow any sort of rules of evidence or due process, and the worst they can do is dismiss him from the school.
Back in Trump's presidency they changed the rules and forced colleges to actually follow due process and mimic a criminal proceeding, but that was one of the first things Biden rolled back.
He needs to participate as little as possible, refuse to answer vague questions and only speak directly to specific charges, and he wants it all recorded or in writing. At that point, if the school dismisses him and it's not consistent with their published policies and procedures, he can sue them. It's basically a breach of contract thing.
Dude's in Oz anyways, so US law is irrelevant.
Ah, then who the hell knows what they can do to him? They're far enough gone that I wouldn't be surprised hurting a girl's feelings could be spun into some kind of crime.
Before any "official" meetings ask if you can bring a lawyer. If they say "You can bring a lawyer if that would make you more comfortable." Then you probably don't need one.
If they say anything to dissuade you like "We want to keep this informal" or "A lawyer is so expensive" or "We don't want this to be adversarial" clam up and don't say another word to them without a lawyer present. Your last words should be "All further communications between me and your office will be done through my attorney".
It’s already at “We don’t want to escalate this further”, so I think they’re already trying to avoid that…
Though frankly I guess I’ll have to wait and see what action they take next. 😑
It’s more the fucking time thing, at the moment. I just don’t have fucking time…
I’ve explained that, so if they insist on its “urgency”, I guess I then know they intend to fuck me over…
Good for you that you have the text messages. Could have ended badly. I never had anything like that in college but I did see it at work, it never got anywhere past be more careful. The point, of course, is to let you, a straight male, know your place.
Yeah, it does feel that way...
Seems she wants to "escalate", so that will be "fun"...
I'm more concerned, frankly, that the University took something which has occurred between two students, off campus, in our own time, and somehow attached that to my position as a student...
It's clearly unenforceable legally (because I haven't broken any laws), but they've gone to the effort to reverse match my phone number and email, and bombard me via both...
Seems kind of... Somewhat inappropriate, to me. Especially as the emails started as vague, anonymous threats that someone had "reported me" to the University...
The process is the punishment. Clearly this are not suppose to be legal, the same as an HR complaint, it can be enforced as a broke of conduct that assumingly you've signed when you enrolled. The fact that they can "police" you outside the University it just show how authoritarian the leftist institutions have gotten. At this point they only want to demoralize you so don't let them, take it as a win against the bitch and the institution protecting her. Next time you see her feel free to make fun of her impotent attempts.
Yeah, it’s a bit fucked, frankly…
Like, she must know that legally she has no ground to stand on. Yet here we are…
Ha, yeah, I’ve just told them “Look, I’ll give you my end of things, but do not waste my time”, so we’ll see how willing they are to try and fuck with me, lol…
I know I’m not the first to be in this position, but it’s just so… Fucking juvenile, frankly, lol.
High School drama, and yet this bitch is older than me. Eugh…
Women don't grow up
Never play the long game with women. Either get to a first date within a week or cut them out of your lives. Anything else is a waste of time.
get a lawyer
I'd suggest that if they don't permit you to do so, insist that they do and make the recordings available.
Process-as-punishment types do generally love being able to reinterpret things to taste; it would be foolish to assume anything but relentless hostility from the university.
All men have been through this and sometimes more. I have. All my friends have. Hence my disdain for the west.
Welcome to being a man, it’s almost a right of passage in modern society. I would also recommend getting every college employee’s name who was involved in this farce and making sure they are publicly known for pushing this stupidity.
-Admit nothing
-Never apologize
-Make them burn everything down to get you
-Make the rubble bounce.
Are you in NSW? Google section 314 of the crimes act.
Might be a nice thing to drop in conversation if you think things are getting serious.
Been here, done this, and we've talked about it. First step: find a good male lawyer, and have him contact the uni on your behalf, and make sure he uses the words "harassment of my client".
Then, find a sympathetic media outlet, and tell your story.
But what did you really say in those texts? Did you flirt with her? Compliment her? Asked her out?
Anyway, sounds like they're on a fishing expedition. The first rule when you're accused of something is to not offer them the rope to hang you with. It's to keep your mouth shut. Offer as little as possible.
What are they accusing you of? Complain about the reputational damage and demand the identity of the accuser. Also, demand to know what the procedures involved are. How are you to take this phone interview? Will there be a second one? Is it a hearing of some sort? Who is the judge? Who is the jury?
Fire has some info on due process and there are changes incoming as well.
It kind of seems like you're beating around the bush. What's the actual complaint? If you don't want to say that's fine, but I can't really say anything back.
That’s because if there is an actual complaint, they will not tell me.
I’ve stated all that I know. I literally spelled out what they have told me.
If it seems nebulous to you, imagine how nebulous it is to me…
They literally haven’t even told me anything beyond “You made this girl uncomfortable.”
That is literally it.
I can only assume they are unwilling to state in writing any details about the actual complaint, because that might not look very good on their part.
Thus, this is all I know.
No bullshit. That’s honestly what this is.