Yes, wokeness is all Martin Luther's fault. If he hadn't nailed those demands to the door there would have never been any other schisms, the Catholic church would be the only church in America, and it would be totally based.
By happenstance. Lutherans are pretty liberal but this "pastor" is just as heretical to traditional Lutheran doctrine as he would be in almost any other church.
Real Lutherans that follow the book of Concord are very Conservative. Those who don't follow the Book of Concord that teaches the Bible is literal (as in homosexuality is a sin, God's Word is infallible), are heretics.
Zero actual Lutherans are allowed to be pro-homosexual. Females also are not allowed to be pastors in Lutheran churches.
Most of us are Christian nationalists as well, heavily against Dispensationalism.
I know. Too many religious groups have crazies at the fringe. Problem is nobody does anything about it. Violate the "nice Jesus" doctrine. My issue is the transexual thing is so far beyond the pale. It's not doctrinal disputes, but the denial of reality.
Tell it to the satanist communist pope, and his church of bible based fanfiction and ridiculous hats. One satanic lutheran has no power outside their one church. The catholic organization is a corrupt stain on the faith.
It mirrors the reason the founders wanted small, limited government. It limits the power of evil.
Not odd that you're a fucking retard considering you're a catholic. Lutherans being morons does not retroactively make the morons at the catholic church correct in their utter corruption and heresy.
A bit harsh. After all, what's a little popery between friends? As to my own retardation I will make no defense, but the Catholic intellectual tradition bares some reflection. From beginning to more recent some obscure thinkers that may have grace your reading: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, [your dear reformation occurs here], Bellarmine, Newman, MacIntyre. Tell me dear Matt, am I to conclude these men are as dense as I?
Sure. And it's hard to criticize him at this point from a purely secular point of view. That having been said, I will attempt to do so while leaving religious specifics as far in the corner as I can. Luther was a Latin priest and they have generally had three responsibilities: (1) Say the prayers of the Church, (2) maintain celibacy and (3) obedience to Religious superiors. Luther ultimately broke with two of the three. I would argue an educated man would upon rejecting two thirds of his cultural requirements should have foreseen significant changes to the world and others around him. Given that Luther didn't reject the religion as a whole, these significant and likely upheavals should have been concerning to him. Unforeseen consequences are a bugger of a thing, hard to predict and offer no real absolution when you get it wrong.
I think I hate pastors. I learn one new Biblical truth every couple years, and I'm way ahead of all the pastors I've ever met, save one.
To "be made in God's image" actually means something specific. It's a designation that you are an Image-bearer, a creature designed to spread God's dominion over creation. It's sort of like being a standard-bearer for God.
It doesn't mean that you're perfect no matter what you do. Interpreting it that was is a clear cut case of satanic inversion.
This is a satanic denial of the need to change and repent for forgiveness. If they're fine just as they are, then nothing is a sin and there is no need for contrition.
It's just "do what thou wilt" written differently. Because in actual Christian doctrine the wheat will be separated from the chaff.
Can I ask how do you learn Biblical truth? I've been very recently trying to become religious after a long time of being agnostic and if you have books to recommend I appreciate it.
So far I've just been going thru the Bible and going to church, unfortunately not every Sunday.
First of all, study the Bible. A little bit a day, reading good, old, based study guides. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
Then, start getting into the Church fathers and older academics. Aquinas, C. S. Lewis, Spurgeon, and some of the newer Orthodox writers (Josiah Trenham is a treat to listen to).
Aquinas. His writing is a bit much to approach directly. But if you're looking for an intellectual approach, IRL I recommend to people Edward Fesser's "The Last Superstition" or "Aquinas". The first a broad response to the "New Atheists" covering a wider intellectual tradition, and the latter more focused on Aquinas himself. To warn you, I have been (accurately) accused of popery, so if that bothers you: CS Lewis.
Listen to bible audiobook, preferably a non-dramatic reading, while doing other stuff. Just make it a habit. The old testament is great to fall asleep to.
Also look into Catholicism and Orthodoxy. No matter how you feel about the current pope the fact that the Church is a continuation of the one founded by Christ's apostles is something worthy.
Faith doesn't seem like something that you reason your way into. As long as you aren't actively rejecting it, then it will eventually find you. One day you will say "I believe" and it won't feel silly anymore.
Also look into Catholicism and Orthodoxy. No matter how you feel about the current pope the fact that the Church is a continuation of the one founded by Christ's apostles is something worthy.
@Galean. If you find yourself drawn to the traditions of the orthodox, rather than Catholicism know this:
About 98% of the Catholic Church is novus ordo, the new 60/70s mass in English/whatever language is spoken locally. 1% is 'the Extraordinary Form/TLM/Tridentine Mass', the old latin form (their high masses are the ones with Gregorian chants and incense, all the good stuff), and its experiencing a revival despite this pope's stance. The final 1% is 'the eastern rites', these are essentially orthodox and easterners (23 church communities, 5 other rites) who have come back into communion with Rome. So if you're drawn to their traditions, depending where you are in the world, it might be possible to have your cake and eat it too.
There's a few other rare ones too of course. There's now a very new 'ordinariate' form, which is essentially anglicans/church of englanders returning to communion with rome.
I have found a lot of interesting points from examining the words of Christ in the Gospels from the perspective of Christ as astoundingly informed on matters of (classical Jewish) faith, as seen in His first public outing at the temple.
For example, when the Almighty designated mankind stewards of his creation, the meaning of that is more strongly defined in the parable of the Talents - the stewards who did not leverage their charge to create something greater than what they were given were condemned.
To "be made in God's image" actually means something specific. It's a designation that you are an Image-bearer, a creature designed to spread God's dominion over creation. It's sort of like being a standard-bearer for God.
It doesn't mean that you're perfect no matter what you do. Interpreting it that was is a clear cut case of satanic inversion.
I've only seen the "perfect the way you are" heresy online, thankfully. But make no mistake, seminary is suffering the same collapse as general education.
I'm really into kingdom theology right now, specifically ongoing spiritual warfare and the need to build communities. I tried bringing the community aspect up with my current pastor (an "America is the greatest country on earth" boomer) and he more or less dismissed it. He said every few years in state-wide pastors conference, someone brings that up and everyone else shoots it down because building an interdependent community with a semblance of independence from the world doesn't feel "churchy" enough. The other pastors are afraid they'd lose congregations.
Meanwhile, those same congregations have not a single member under 40. It's a complete failure to pass on a functioning system, let alone spread the Kingdom. I'm starting to resent pastors as a class for their failures.
I help with the youth group at church and they are bombarded with this stuff at school and other places. A lot of younger ppl will say “God loves everyone”. The idea that everything must be condoned is growing rabidly in the church.
God does love everyone--that doesn't preclude him from being dissapointed or meting out justice. A father who disciplines a child doesn't stop loving his child for the duration of the discipline. A father, a good one, attempts to raise his child well because of love for his child, not despite it.
It is a mark of how poorly many children have been raised that they think "God loves me" is a justification to make no attempt at betterment--or that Gods love (being infinite) somehow precludes them from also being sinful.
Ugh. My church is part of the more conservative Lutherans. Yes we are to love everyone but if he was a good father he wouldn’t affirm the delusion. You believe in an almighty God but the same God made a mistake with your child?
“We may not entirely understand the science around why people are born transgender or even what it all means for our daughter’s future, but we know that God created each and every one of us in God’s own image.
And there you are, medically defiling God's image.
God does not love our daughter in spite of her gender identity. God did not put her in the wrong body.
You are correct. God did not put him in the wrong body. YOU have inculcated your son into this fetishistic cult of depravity
This is who she has always been,
No.
who God created her to be
And now in your pride you claim to know the mind of God.
and like I’ve heard from so many who want to dispute transgender identities, God doesn’t make mistakes,” the pastor’s wife said.
Someone should tell him about the "no other gods before me" commandment. But this faggot probably worships the demonic entity they call "the great queer one" because he thinks it will absolve him of being gay when he sucks off troons.
According to the religion of wokeness, transphobia is a sin, racism is a sin, etc. It's actually good that they're coming out and saying this directly. How can I be an apostate to your fake and gay ideology when I don't believe in it? And of course there is no forgiveness in the death cult of wokism.
I'm not in anyway versed in the Bible but I assume is a sin to be trans. Each individual is divine as in it has a soul but we are also responsible for our actions. Even if the kid has gender dysphoria, the kid and father should try to deal with his/her mental illness rather then give in to it.
His argument can be made about anything, sociopath, gay, pedophiles etc. Just because they have a soul and God loves them does not mean He approves of their choices and actions.
Nope, transphobia is a sin for one simple reason: Christianity is subsumed under liberal capitalism, and transphobia is a sin/heresy against liberalism.
That is not something we can find common ground on.
Furthermore, not all trans people suffer from sex dysphoria
That is irrelevant. Either it is a mental illness and needs to be treated in accordance with the law of God or it is not a mental illness and it is a choice and should be treated as sin.
If you believe in God and the path He set for us you can't but believe that the best treatment for gender dysphoria is not give in to the delusion.
Honestly even without religion, treating trans people with transitioning does not improve their lives all that much and it if bad for their physical health.
Again, I'm not versed in the Bible so I'm very bad in answering this questions.
Dude, I thought I was bad at making arguments but you are so much worse. First 2 make no sense, is like a 6 year old making an argument.
As for your take on sex dysphoria is just semantics, the delusion is that you have the wrong body, the same as someone believing he is Napoleon, they have an actual mental illness that also have a delusion.
The rest of your argument is non-sensical. The entire article was about a priest, it was in the context of religion. It just seems you used the article to spout your pro-trannie ideas.
Just as a note:
medical advances will improve the process even more.
I doubt this. Trans issues are not meant to be fixed, they are suppose to make the victims in slaves of the state.
True treatment would be to cure their dysphoria by not engaging in it and definitely not encourage it. We are at a ridiculous point where if a boy likes female superheroes he is now trans, where you have trans "men" giving birth and not question why this supposedly man is doing the most feminin thing he could do.
Case in point of the article, the kid in question was 8 year old. Somewhere between 80-90% of kids with gender dysphoria grow out of it during puberty as long as you do not encourage it. That kid is 100% going to become trans now.
We are not moving in any direction where anyone is interested in helping trans people.
If we somehow reach this magic place where you can turn a men in to a women at will I can guarantee that it will not fix anything. Those people will still be depressed and barely functioning.
I honestly believe that embracing God and doing his plan and carry your cross in life is the best alternative and the one that will bring them the most joy.
Most of what you said you basically said you are wrong cause I say so.
You also seem off your rocker.
I was opened for some arguments if any but you hold none.
We are not moving in any direction where anyone is interested in helping trans people.
Lol, you clearly live in a different society than I do.
Again, allowing people to believe they can or are the opposite sex is not helping trans people. Encouraging kids to be trans should be a death sentence.
Even putting this on capitalism when is clear communists are pushing for identity politics and wanting to increase their ideological dominance is the reason why trans stuff it is becoming profitable.
You do not even try to see a solution where you do not give in to their delusion. We need funding to find an actual solution for their mental illness not mutilate their healthy bodies to match their illness. They are not and will never be the opposite sex, there is no solution or treatment there. No amount copium on your part will change that.
If you believe that the best course of action for this ill people is to give in to their dysphoria then you are just as delusional as the trans people.
Get meds, get help, I wish you would find God and I wish trans people would put their faith in God and follow His path for us.
Anyway this was in response to why the priest was wrong. And I think that part we can both agree that you are full of shit and that the priest is wrong.
He's liberal "Lutheran" not real Lutheran. Only the hard core old school like Missouri Synod Lutheran churches and a few others actually follow Christ.
Well there’s some unflappable logic
The statement is just as applicable to literal mules and much like mules this statement also comes from an ass.
10/10. You have my nomination for 'comment of the day on kia2.win.
I was probably far too pleased with myself when I came up with that :p
groomer != ancestor
Talk about a non-sequitur
If Martin Luther knew what his alleged disciples would be about, he'd become a more faithful Catholic than Ignatius Loyola.
Luther was warned of his error. In his arrogance he decided he knew better. You are seeing the fruits his foolishness.
Yes, wokeness is all Martin Luther's fault. If he hadn't nailed those demands to the door there would have never been any other schisms, the Catholic church would be the only church in America, and it would be totally based.
Odd response given the topic is literally a Lutheran clergyman.
By happenstance. Lutherans are pretty liberal but this "pastor" is just as heretical to traditional Lutheran doctrine as he would be in almost any other church.
LCMS are fighting against Marxism, Eschatologuy on Gab was one.
ELCA is a tranny cult larping as Lutherans.
Real Lutherans that follow the book of Concord are very Conservative. Those who don't follow the Book of Concord that teaches the Bible is literal (as in homosexuality is a sin, God's Word is infallible), are heretics.
Zero actual Lutherans are allowed to be pro-homosexual. Females also are not allowed to be pastors in Lutheran churches.
Most of us are Christian nationalists as well, heavily against Dispensationalism.
I know. Too many religious groups have crazies at the fringe. Problem is nobody does anything about it. Violate the "nice Jesus" doctrine. My issue is the transexual thing is so far beyond the pale. It's not doctrinal disputes, but the denial of reality.
That's not LCMS Lutheran.
It's a heretical Marxist fraud called the ELCA
Tell it to the satanist communist pope, and his church of bible based fanfiction and ridiculous hats. One satanic lutheran has no power outside their one church. The catholic organization is a corrupt stain on the faith.
It mirrors the reason the founders wanted small, limited government. It limits the power of evil.
Not odd that you're a fucking retard considering you're a catholic. Lutherans being morons does not retroactively make the morons at the catholic church correct in their utter corruption and heresy.
A bit harsh. After all, what's a little popery between friends? As to my own retardation I will make no defense, but the Catholic intellectual tradition bares some reflection. From beginning to more recent some obscure thinkers that may have grace your reading: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, [your dear reformation occurs here], Bellarmine, Newman, MacIntyre. Tell me dear Matt, am I to conclude these men are as dense as I?
Yes, but not in his worst nightmares could he see this garbage.
Sure. And it's hard to criticize him at this point from a purely secular point of view. That having been said, I will attempt to do so while leaving religious specifics as far in the corner as I can. Luther was a Latin priest and they have generally had three responsibilities: (1) Say the prayers of the Church, (2) maintain celibacy and (3) obedience to Religious superiors. Luther ultimately broke with two of the three. I would argue an educated man would upon rejecting two thirds of his cultural requirements should have foreseen significant changes to the world and others around him. Given that Luther didn't reject the religion as a whole, these significant and likely upheavals should have been concerning to him. Unforeseen consequences are a bugger of a thing, hard to predict and offer no real absolution when you get it wrong.
I think I hate pastors. I learn one new Biblical truth every couple years, and I'm way ahead of all the pastors I've ever met, save one.
To "be made in God's image" actually means something specific. It's a designation that you are an Image-bearer, a creature designed to spread God's dominion over creation. It's sort of like being a standard-bearer for God.
It doesn't mean that you're perfect no matter what you do. Interpreting it that was is a clear cut case of satanic inversion.
To quote u/Kaarous from a while back,
Can I ask how do you learn Biblical truth? I've been very recently trying to become religious after a long time of being agnostic and if you have books to recommend I appreciate it. So far I've just been going thru the Bible and going to church, unfortunately not every Sunday.
First of all, study the Bible. A little bit a day, reading good, old, based study guides. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
Then, start getting into the Church fathers and older academics. Aquinas, C. S. Lewis, Spurgeon, and some of the newer Orthodox writers (Josiah Trenham is a treat to listen to).
Aquinas. His writing is a bit much to approach directly. But if you're looking for an intellectual approach, IRL I recommend to people Edward Fesser's "The Last Superstition" or "Aquinas". The first a broad response to the "New Atheists" covering a wider intellectual tradition, and the latter more focused on Aquinas himself. To warn you, I have been (accurately) accused of popery, so if that bothers you: CS Lewis.
Edit: I recommend Lewis either way really. This channel is fun: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw-kYN6wWXWDyp_lB0wnlxw
Keep at it. As he said Aquinas. Also St Augustine. Check out CS Lewis books as well. Like Mere Christianity
Thank you
Listen to bible audiobook, preferably a non-dramatic reading, while doing other stuff. Just make it a habit. The old testament is great to fall asleep to.
Also look into Catholicism and Orthodoxy. No matter how you feel about the current pope the fact that the Church is a continuation of the one founded by Christ's apostles is something worthy.
Faith doesn't seem like something that you reason your way into. As long as you aren't actively rejecting it, then it will eventually find you. One day you will say "I believe" and it won't feel silly anymore.
I listen to David Suchet. I'm a big fan of his Poirot and I was pleasantly surprised to find out you can listen to the Bible read by him.
@Galean. If you find yourself drawn to the traditions of the orthodox, rather than Catholicism know this:
About 98% of the Catholic Church is novus ordo, the new 60/70s mass in English/whatever language is spoken locally. 1% is 'the Extraordinary Form/TLM/Tridentine Mass', the old latin form (their high masses are the ones with Gregorian chants and incense, all the good stuff), and its experiencing a revival despite this pope's stance. The final 1% is 'the eastern rites', these are essentially orthodox and easterners (23 church communities, 5 other rites) who have come back into communion with Rome. So if you're drawn to their traditions, depending where you are in the world, it might be possible to have your cake and eat it too.
There's a few other rare ones too of course. There's now a very new 'ordinariate' form, which is essentially anglicans/church of englanders returning to communion with rome.
I have found a lot of interesting points from examining the words of Christ in the Gospels from the perspective of Christ as astoundingly informed on matters of (classical Jewish) faith, as seen in His first public outing at the temple.
For example, when the Almighty designated mankind stewards of his creation, the meaning of that is more strongly defined in the parable of the Talents - the stewards who did not leverage their charge to create something greater than what they were given were condemned.
Uh yeah no shit. This is basic doctrine...
What "pastor" have you been talking to?
I assume he is referring to the Lutheran pastor in the article.
The article is even worse as the kid was encouraged since he was 8 by the pastor and his wife.
He should be fed posted. I left my a church because the pastors wife is a leftist. I'd have gone to prison if he were like this dude
I've only seen the "perfect the way you are" heresy online, thankfully. But make no mistake, seminary is suffering the same collapse as general education.
I'm really into kingdom theology right now, specifically ongoing spiritual warfare and the need to build communities. I tried bringing the community aspect up with my current pastor (an "America is the greatest country on earth" boomer) and he more or less dismissed it. He said every few years in state-wide pastors conference, someone brings that up and everyone else shoots it down because building an interdependent community with a semblance of independence from the world doesn't feel "churchy" enough. The other pastors are afraid they'd lose congregations.
Meanwhile, those same congregations have not a single member under 40. It's a complete failure to pass on a functioning system, let alone spread the Kingdom. I'm starting to resent pastors as a class for their failures.
I help with the youth group at church and they are bombarded with this stuff at school and other places. A lot of younger ppl will say “God loves everyone”. The idea that everything must be condoned is growing rabidly in the church.
I used to joke that if you love your kids, you'll homeschool them. It's not a joke anymore.
God does love everyone--that doesn't preclude him from being dissapointed or meting out justice. A father who disciplines a child doesn't stop loving his child for the duration of the discipline. A father, a good one, attempts to raise his child well because of love for his child, not despite it.
It is a mark of how poorly many children have been raised that they think "God loves me" is a justification to make no attempt at betterment--or that Gods love (being infinite) somehow precludes them from also being sinful.
Amen. Sadly that lesson goes over the heads of a number of Christians
9th Commandment begs to differ, heretic
Ugh. My church is part of the more conservative Lutherans. Yes we are to love everyone but if he was a good father he wouldn’t affirm the delusion. You believe in an almighty God but the same God made a mistake with your child?
And there you are, medically defiling God's image.
You are correct. God did not put him in the wrong body. YOU have inculcated your son into this fetishistic cult of depravity
No.
And now in your pride you claim to know the mind of God.
And so God has not, but YOU have.
The phrase beware the heretics seems to come to mind with this photo...
Someone should tell him about the "no other gods before me" commandment. But this faggot probably worships the demonic entity they call "the great queer one" because he thinks it will absolve him of being gay when he sucks off troons.
So...likelihood this dude touches kids?
100%.
According to the religion of wokeness, transphobia is a sin, racism is a sin, etc. It's actually good that they're coming out and saying this directly. How can I be an apostate to your fake and gay ideology when I don't believe in it? And of course there is no forgiveness in the death cult of wokism.
bring back torquemada
Remember what we used to do with heretics?
And I say you're a retarded faggot - thus completing the circle of life.
So’s gluttony, bitch tits.
I'm not in anyway versed in the Bible but I assume is a sin to be trans. Each individual is divine as in it has a soul but we are also responsible for our actions. Even if the kid has gender dysphoria, the kid and father should try to deal with his/her mental illness rather then give in to it.
His argument can be made about anything, sociopath, gay, pedophiles etc. Just because they have a soul and God loves them does not mean He approves of their choices and actions.
That is not something we can find common ground on.
That is irrelevant. Either it is a mental illness and needs to be treated in accordance with the law of God or it is not a mental illness and it is a choice and should be treated as sin.
Again, I'm not versed in the Bible so I'm very bad in answering this questions.
Dude, I thought I was bad at making arguments but you are so much worse. First 2 make no sense, is like a 6 year old making an argument.
As for your take on sex dysphoria is just semantics, the delusion is that you have the wrong body, the same as someone believing he is Napoleon, they have an actual mental illness that also have a delusion.
The rest of your argument is non-sensical. The entire article was about a priest, it was in the context of religion. It just seems you used the article to spout your pro-trannie ideas.
Just as a note:
I doubt this. Trans issues are not meant to be fixed, they are suppose to make the victims in slaves of the state.
True treatment would be to cure their dysphoria by not engaging in it and definitely not encourage it. We are at a ridiculous point where if a boy likes female superheroes he is now trans, where you have trans "men" giving birth and not question why this supposedly man is doing the most feminin thing he could do.
Case in point of the article, the kid in question was 8 year old. Somewhere between 80-90% of kids with gender dysphoria grow out of it during puberty as long as you do not encourage it. That kid is 100% going to become trans now.
We are not moving in any direction where anyone is interested in helping trans people.
If we somehow reach this magic place where you can turn a men in to a women at will I can guarantee that it will not fix anything. Those people will still be depressed and barely functioning.
I honestly believe that embracing God and doing his plan and carry your cross in life is the best alternative and the one that will bring them the most joy.
Most of what you said you basically said you are wrong cause I say so. You also seem off your rocker.
I was opened for some arguments if any but you hold none.
Again, allowing people to believe they can or are the opposite sex is not helping trans people. Encouraging kids to be trans should be a death sentence.
You do not even try to see a solution where you do not give in to their delusion. We need funding to find an actual solution for their mental illness not mutilate their healthy bodies to match their illness. They are not and will never be the opposite sex, there is no solution or treatment there. No amount copium on your part will change that.
If you believe that the best course of action for this ill people is to give in to their dysphoria then you are just as delusional as the trans people.
Get meds, get help, I wish you would find God and I wish trans people would put their faith in God and follow His path for us.
Anyway this was in response to why the priest was wrong. And I think that part we can both agree that you are full of shit and that the priest is wrong.
https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/23-1.htm
He's liberal "Lutheran" not real Lutheran. Only the hard core old school like Missouri Synod Lutheran churches and a few others actually follow Christ.
Example of the real: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsEw7ECzGlc
That's a whole lot of cope. Probably goes down better than facing your complete failure as a parent.