This seems like an appropriate response
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser
I've always known the concept, but never put it to words as elegantly as this.
Oy vey, why are you sweating Dr. Peterson? A coward to your last whimper I see.
I've noticed that a lot of the defenders of the J walkers are getting very irritate recently. I've seen several of them lashing out in the last few days, which is something they don't do to the other side. People who are usually calm are becoming very emotional, because deep down I think that they know the other side is right, but they've invested so much in defending them and aren't ready to let it go just yet, so there's a great inner conflict at play.
J walkers.
I am laughing out loud.
I don't get it. What does "J" stand for? "Jew" or "Jordan"? Also, is it a reference to South Park referring to Kyle the shifty jew as a "day walker" because "day" rhymes with the English pronunciation of "J", or is it because "J walker" sounds like the trite crime of being a "jaywalker"?
Sounds like you do get it.
Especially here. Seems like an awful lot of Gamergaters are stuck in the tutorial and taking potshots at dangerhairs and ignoring the final boss.
Half-KiA are the worst with that. It's still 2014 over there but without the upside of doing ops. There's still a bunch of virtue signaling over how much they love "diversity done right."
It's also possible that a fifth column of Leftists are trying to channelize everyone else into the easiest possible target to hit. "Look, it's okay, just say that the Left is right about you and that you're a Nazi tee hee".
Maybe, but I doubt that. Seems like it would be a strategic blunder to normalize the jewish question. Especially among blacks.
Blacks haven't stopped asking the JQ in 50 years, that's why the entire issue hurts Kanye with white people only.
But this whole sequence of events has really soured me on if the alt-right can be trusted in any regard. It seems like they are operating as a fifth column to destroy populism entirely. As if the Left realized that they can't have David Koch come in and butcher the Tea Party, so they need to have people come in and kill the populist movement by associating it with unpalatable things.
What even is the alt-right? Are we talking about say, the Dave Duke/Richard Spencer types? Fuentes and the groypers? The closest equivalent label I can think of would be "dissident right" but it's less a concrete group and more simply anything that isn't leftist or con/neocon.
Asking purely because I've seen "alt-right" fall out of use among rightists. If anyone still uses it it's the leftists. Maybe I'm nitpicking.
Alt right used to mean anyone on the right who wasn’t a traditional mainstream Republican, built upon the ashes of the tea party movement. Then the leftist mainstream media started painting the alt right as a bunch of while supremacists. Around the same time, the MAGA/America First movement started picking up so most people in the alt right moved over to that. The only people who stuck around with the alt right moniker were people who were openly racist like Richard Spencer. And so the alternative right is basically a dead movement save a handful of white nationalists within it.
Spencer was one of the early leaders of the alt-right movement and the ones who basically lead that term. Alt-Right only became a representation of the dissident right when Milo basically put himself as a major force, almost displaying it as the decedent of the TEA Party. But, Milo didn't make much progress, and the White Nationalists were none-to-happy about a gay man with an inter-racial marriage subverting their movement.
Yes.
Alt-Right is really a term that those types actually invented for themselves. Richard Spencer was actually one of the biggest advocates of the term, and he really was kind of seen as the leader of the alt-right in that early 2015 time period.
The reason the term has basically fallen out of use is because the alt-right as a force basically fucking collapsed.
Then let's wake more people up and make it palatable.
The thing is, it's correctly unpalatable because it's just another marxist meta-narrative, except applied to race.
Ideology. Judiam is an ideology. All the problems they've had in history is not because of what they are, but what they've done.
Jordan Peterson himself has taught about the psychology of people, and specifically about when you challenge someone's core beliefs, their worldview, they lash out at the challenger as if they'd been physically attacked. He calls it the lizard brain.
I've seen this myself, repeatedly, because I insist on challenging people and their ideas, and my own, through rigorous debate. I'm sure most here have seen it too. Through challenge, truth emerges. When someone's worldview becomes tarnished by that challenge, when cracks begin to show, that they're wrong in part or total, the immediate response is denial, doubling down, and logically fallacious attacks (most commonly in ad hominem form) against the challenger. It's a denial of their own humanity, that we're mortal, finite, imperfect, and have free will. We can't know everything, and we must each acknowledge that we could be and probably are wrong about some things, in nuance or total, and what what we don't know can drastically reshape what we think we already know, giving it new context. People must be strong in convictions, so they can accomplish, but open to the possibility of being wrong, and be able to change if so.
Denial of truth means such people place themselves above truth, which must be our highest priority, or we will surely fail and die. Denial of this means such people proclaim themselves to be God, that they can't be wrong. Again, it's a denial of their own humanity.
What happens after can vary. People can, and often do, remain in denial, and would rather die than change their minds, even though they're free to do so. They treat their lies and falsehoods like an anchor, letting it drown them. This is common in nature, and humanity, however. In the 3 ways of conflict resolution, this is called isolation (the other two being good debate and violence), where the disagreeing parties isolate themselves and succeed or fail based on their own merit.
Still, I cling to the hope that some people, many I hope, if they're truly good, can eventually change their minds. I hope they can self reflect, self doubt, question, even of themselves, and be curious, think, and learn. Surely there must be people like this, yet appear silent from the outside, perhaps in contemplation, because public discourse changes as new information comes to light. I'm one of them. My views and ideas have changed over the decades, some radically, and even recently foundational views have been slightly altered to reflect nuanced new trains of thought.
If these people don't exist, that no one, or very few, are capable of changing their minds, then the only solution left is terrible. Good debate, to search for truth, is made impossible. That only leaves violence. It's either carried out by tribal warfare, or by nature itself, killing off the stupid.
As censorship and globalist curation of information dwindles, as true free speech sites increase, and the propaganda made more apparent, we're going to see how a great many people really are. Are they capable of free will and understand their humanity, and prioritize truth, or do they deny all of it.
Sure, people tend to over-react when you criticize Jews. They also do the same when you criticize any other race except white people. JP's "messages" in these videos are to followers of particular religions, not racial groups, so the assumptions by @buttcanbandit aren't even logical.
As for your question of why people oppose the "Jewish Conspiracy" narrative...
I can't speak for others, but I see most anti-Jewish racism as stemming from the same sort of identity politics that the Left so masterfully wields. In-fact, the far-right and far-left have more in common than either side wants to admit. The disdain I have for people who support this anti-Jewish narrative is the same disdain I have for the Left.
Identity politics takes the side of collectivism in the collectivism vs. individualism debate. Identity politics is the process of picking and choosing characteristics of individuals, grouping them together based on those characteristics, and building a positive or negative narrative around them for political reasons. The root of this mindset is viewing people as members of a collective rather than as individuals.
It's perfectly find to recognize differences such as patterns of behavior between groups of people but treating people as members of a collective is immoral and creates problems not just for the individuals in question but for society as a whole. The irrationality of many of these identity politics arguments aside, this mistreatment of people that causes significant damage to society is why I disdain identity politics on both sides.
FYI: I'm sure this comment will HUGELY popular on this board and will be showered with upvotes the moment it's posted.
I'd argue that it's a direct result of the left's identity politics.
"The banks are screwing us."
"That's anti-Semitic!"
"George Soros is an evil man."
"That's anti-Semitic!"
"All these rootless globalist cosmopolitans are really fucking everything up."
"That's anti-Semitic!"
"Guess I might as well be anti-Semitic then, because apparently the Jews are behind everything."
I just wish, just once, that a prominent Jewish person would come out and say, "yeah, there's some pretty fucking corrupt Jews. The ones involved in screwing Ye over should knock it off." Instead it's a lockstep "anti-Semitism bad!" chorus. I had to skip through most of Rubin's show because I'm sick of it.
Think of how sacred the Holocaust is to non Jews, then realize what it means to Jews. They've been fully indoctrinated since birth that anything that could even been seen as a stepping stone to a stepping stone is, in fact, a concrete path to the next Holocaust, which is why they will lash out at anything that could have the faint possibility of being antisemitic.
Yes, some of it is definitely reactionary. It's sad to see so many people on the right foolishly adopting their own version of identity politics as a response to the left's identity politics.
My whole thing with the "Jewish Conspiracy" is that its proponents act as if Jews are part of some Illuminati-like organization, acting in concert to enslave the goyim. It's undeniable they're disproportionately present in positions of power but it doesn't follow, to me, that they're acting to some end for the Jewish race according to some centuries long plan or what have you.
Same here. I just can't see past the logical leap required to jump from observing a pattern and believing in some kind of global conspiracy.
Why do you think disproportionately present in positions of power? I mean how did they accomplish that.
Horseshoe Theory Israel
He said religions.
He doesn't care about religion. He cares about the Jewish people and their supposed global conspiracy. He's implying that the "Jewish conspiracy" has JP too afraid to criticize Judaism. He's trolling.
Looks like the guy changed his name to "evil rat."
https://nitter.net/jordanbpeterson/status/1597541781331382273
https://web.archive.org/web/20221130124914/https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1597541781331382273
He changed his avatar too.
For some reason, the tweet doesn't show up on nitter, so just use the archive link or replace nitter.net with twitter.com.
Willing to criticize everyone - except one particular group. In the clearest ways possible.
"To learn who is in power, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"
That, my frens, is the very definition of "controlled opposition". So much power over the narrative that you aren't even allowed to question their power over the narrative.
Voltaire didn't say it.
Here I’ve just been having fun on twitter lately trolling people by making them explain how Jewish is a race and religion but not racist
I'm sticking with: it's not a race, it's a religion.
That’s where I go, it’s fun to take the piss out of fellow “ethnic Jews” however
I don't we rub it in their face enough.
"I'm jewish"
"Oh, so you're a practicing jew?"
"No, I'm ethnically jewish."
"Oh, so you're not jewish!"
"No, I'm ethnically jewish."
"Judaism is the basis of the entire jewish culture and ethnicity. If you're not a religious jew, then you're not a jew. It's like saying you're ethnically muslim."
"No! I'm a jew! My family are jews!"
"No, you're apostate who abandoned God. You stopped being jewish, and now you've chosen to become just white."
"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
Why is he addressing Muslims? I haven't been keeping up on Jordan Peterson, what with all the crying and all.
I wish Peterson would just stay off and do his whole professor trying to figure things out thing again. More lectures, less lecturing. I'm just not into DW-era Peterson.
Classic professor Peterson telling college kids to clean their room is the best Peterson. IDGAF about his opinions on Christianity or other esoteric topics. What made him so good and useful was that lots of young people need a father figure that was there to help them figure out how to be functional adults. This new stuff is too far astray from what he does best.
Before he was on a mission, now that he's famous he believes he was chosen by God. Genuine vs affected.
I wish he would be honest and stop taking jewish zionist money. but that won't happen. I wonder what they have on him. must be much more than his family and his drugs.
Peterson just won't concede that the Jews do anything to contribute to any problems. Any criticism of Jewish behavior, in his mind, is the same as saying 'lets kill another six million'.
It's absurd, but I'm not surprised, most boomers are the same.
>another
Haha, I like Dr Peterson and I am listening to his new Exodus series but this is really funny!
Yeah. Those Buddhists have slid by for too long.
Maybe he hasn't considered a critique of Judaism yet. Maybe he'll put out "A Message to Jews." HA! Who gives a shit?
Antisemitism really is a sort of insanity.
The political groups who yell "antisemitism!" any time Israel is criticized are no better. In fact they may be worse because they're protected by the entire establishment and justify all sorts of evil shit the state of Israel is doing.
I await the down-votes and the links to sources explaining the International Jewish Conspiracy.
Those would have been reasonable responses, yes.
You evil rat.
The Jewish Conspiracy crowd sees anything that doesn't support their worldview as evidence for that very worldview. This is because they claim anything that contradicts their worldview is evidence that the conspiracy is manipulating the evidence. This makes their worldview non-falsifiable.
the issue is that every time you supposedly send us proof that the foreskin eaters are not behind things, it is in the form of sending us individuals who could not have cleaner and clearer ties to the foreskin eaters
The burden of proof is on you to prove the conspiracy, not on me to disprove it.
A high frequency of Jewish people in positions of influence does not prove (or even imply) a global conspiracy. The logical leap between the two is just too large.
a high frequency of jews in positions of influence all pushing for things both you and i would agree are heinous, while ruthlessly destroying any and all opposition specifically by using their jewish identity when convenient, however, paints a different picture.
in the case we don't actually agree it's heinous, though, then yeah, to you the kid rape and open White Genocide in all manners possible except lining us up and shooting us is not a jewish product, it's just "progress".
Also a high frequency of non-Jews doing the same thing.
Also a high frequency of Jews in positions opposing those things we agree are heinous.
Also, still doesn't prove a conspiracy.
Except both pedophilia and genocide happen anywhere there is authoritarianism, not just those with under the supposed Jewish influence. See China, Cambodia, Venezuela and Pakistan for starters but it's almost without exception.
Every single demographic group in the world leans leftward EXCEPT white Protestant Christians and Orthodox Jews. In fact, the worst offenders in the West are all secular atheists, so if we're going to single out a single group for their responsibility in the promotion of moral degeneracy and Marxist values, it should be secular atheists.
show me one, and them opposing it for jews in israel doesn't count.
if you show me one that also names all the jews that are doing those heinous things, i'll eat my hat.
Be clear about what you're asking.
We pick something we both agree is heinous, and the all I have to do is show you an influential Jew who condemns it? Or do you have other conditions?
Is there a reason why JP should address followers of Judaism?
I'm assuming most of the "The Jewish Question" types here have a problem with the Jewish people/race/ethnicity, not Judaism.
So basically, @buttcanbandit is just trolling.
You haven’t done your research. What most of the people you refer to have a problem with is their culture, which is largely influenced by the religion and drives the behavior of the people.
If so, they're even dumber than I thought. Orthodox Jews are one of the few reliable conservative voting demographics. The most heinous Jews in positions of political influence in the West are secular atheists, many of whom are critical of Israel.
The most heinous group may be atheist but they live within the jewish community so they’re influenced by the culture. A culture that encourages the exploitation of outsiders. Is it worth putting up with such a toxic culture for an incredibly tiny demographic of voters? That’s a really poor deal.