Previous discussion from June. As usual, he "discovers" the "conspiracy theorists" are right just past the point where it's possible to do something about it. Crazy how that always happens...
As usual, he "discovers" the "conspiracy theorists" are right just past the point where it's possible to do something about it.
What were the other times? He was right on the ball with the gender identity crap, and there are still people that consider the idea of the rainbow people intentionally poisoning our culture a conspiracy theory.
In general he's been really bad on WuFlu: 5 months ago he was saying how Canada had handled things pretty well and gave little mention of any of the mass violation of civil liberties that had been reported at the time (eg. arresting restaurant owners and church pastors). I know he's had health issues, but I consider his silence on the matter pretty deafening considering the magnitude.
I also don't remember him mentioning any particular concern about demographic shifts and the changes to Canadian culture that will ensue, or Trudeau's idea that Canada should be the first "post-national state", though I could be wrong about that.
I want someone who can sense bullshit. I'm not an epidemiologist, and I sensed the bullshit. A lot of people did: they made the very basic observation that "if this thing's such a big deal how come I don't know anyone who got really sick from it? How come all the emergency hospitals are sitting empty?" And when the vaccines came out they said "they're going to force this on us, aren't they?" And when they weren't as effective as expected they said "they're going to double-down on this, aren't they?"
Saying "fucking leave me alone" 20 months into "14 days to flatten the curve" is easy. Half the population is saying the same thing. Where was Mr. "fucking leave me alone" in April of 2020? Or June of 2021, for that matter?
A psychologist that sees the value in stereotypes is someone to listen to. Whether to correct misconceptions, or accept short handed concepts.
Any other kind is today's run of the mill academia.
A psychiatrist on the other hand, is just a trumped up pharmacist, with the power to make you lose your freedom.
I'd love to give that a try. I bet they'd still charge a lot to listen to my bullshit, though. And then they'd probably bait me into an argument that takes hours.
He claims to be an "expert" in totalitarian states but somehow failed to not see this coming?
Imagine if he said back in June what would have been a reasonable and balanced "centrist" position even then: "If you're in an at risk group you probably should get vaccinated because the risk of serious side effects is lower than the risk of serious illness, but I find it very strange the way nations and the media around the globe have been making an unprecedented nonstop push to get everyone in the world vaccinated. And because we've never done this before at this scale we don't really know the ramifications of doing so are. So because we're in uncharted territory I would urge everyone to use extra caution when making their own personal decisions here, and don't assume any particular person telling you what you should do has you and your family's best interests in mind because only you know that."
Instead it was "get the damned vaccine so we can get this over with".
That would have been the perfect thing to say. Also back then there had already been plenty of evidence that vaccinated people spread the disease just as much as unvaccinated making nuance as to whether to take it or not much more important. The "if you don't take it you are killing grandma and are worthless filth while I'm a hero" thing was NEVER a scientifically accurate position yet it was pushed one by the zealots.
Seriously, “X has always been controlled opposition” is basically a meme at this point. I can’t take anyone who says it seriously.
Jordan has always said he leans Left, which is why the Left labeling him alt-right was such a hoot.
JP has a lot of insight into human nature, psychology and related sciences but his political takes have always been rather naive. This is no different. At least he’s realizing his mistake.
He seems to really lean into trusting our systems, be they government, corporate, or academic. I can see why, given the stupendously high standard of living we enjoy.
However, I think he's too trusting. His philosophy is to tell the truth; that's great for you but if you assume that everyone else is at least trying to do the same, you're going to go for a bad ride. And what we're seeing is clearly not the simple matter of high level experts doing their best but falling short; at this point there is clear deception happening.
I think people of his age have a particularly hard time with this as well. They grew up with the idea of the government protecting them from powerful foreign enemies (which it did, more or less) and so they give it a pass when they maybe shouldn't.
People growing up after the fall of the Berlin Wall have seen nothing but our governments trying to invent bogeymen to justify the greedy, heartless, unscrupulous crap that they have always gotten away with. For us, it's obvious that they're lying and it's all gone too far.
I like JBP generally; he's got lots of good ideas, he's a captivating story teller and he's got courage. But he's not a god that we should follow blindly, no one person is.
Rather than attack people for not living up to what we thought they should be, we should practice forgiveness, especially when he's clearly and without qualification admitting his error.
I'm still wrestling with this topic because I gained a lot from Peterson years ago, but have had some issues with him over the past year. So I see why people love him, and I see why some worry he's controlled opposition (he's probably not going to go deep into Solzhenitsyn "200 years" That's ok because I will, and don't think we even need any famous people to share the information for us).
It's reminded me not to blindly follow anyone as you say. But also not completely deserting someone because they say something I disagree with either.
Peterson in a way was a stepping stone for many who didn't have a strong father figure. Now that we have cleaned our damn rooms it's time we become men ourselves.
From your pragmatic standpoint, knowing someone's limitations up-front is valuable to avoid putting them in situations where they will fail to do something beneficial that is either expected of them or they have historically done under different circumstances.
For example one problem I have noted for a long time is that the most vocal and public defenders of people on the right are liberals (eg. Peterson, Tim Pool, Joe Rogan), and a time will inevitably come when the right goes someplace these liberals can't follow; at which point they'll stop defending the right at best and at worst turn coat and attack.
Don't worry, it's all fine. He said "suspends judgement for 6 months" in June, so there's a whole month before we can think again! It got worse every 2 weeks for the past 20 months, but I'm sure this time, all will finally be fixed!
Hopefully this makes him and his audience more radical.
I will say that you seem obsessed with calling him an expert in totalitarianism, when he's actually a clinical psychologist? Sure he talks about Weimar and the USSR a lot, but so do I? If you've read The Gulag Archipelago, you're as much an "expert".
I believe he himself has claimed that title several times in interviews/talks as a result of some deep study of totalitarian regimes he did when he was younger to better understand the 1940s; it's certainly not one I would confer.
I believe he himself has claimed that title several times in interviews/talks
Gonna need some sauce on that. Peterson was the second step back into radicalism for me and I'm rather sure I've only heard him call himself a clinical psychologist over and over and over and over. I haven't been following him closely for at least a year now, but, in the hundreds of hours that I've watched of him speak from 2015 to 2019 I cannot recall an instance where he did that.
In the lecture series that I've watched from UofT he was always explaining totalitarianism to get to a point about psychology. Could be wrong, happy to be wrong, but that doesn't add up to me yet.
Yeah I'm not going to search though videos looking for that. I believe it was an interview where he was mentioning that the West has a very clear idea of the limiting principle for right-wing ideology which is the Holocaust and Nazi Germany but has no corresponding limiting principle for left-wing ideology and as a result is unprepared for when the left has gone too far (which is obviously correct now that we're all living in that world).
Also, in a similar vein, to all of you “Stans” out there, please, please stop defending Lauren Southern. She really isn’t who, or what, you seem to think she (STILL) is. She hasn’t been that for a long time. I really don’t know what else to tell you… 😐
Yeah... Sadly, I think even Ms Sydney Watson (who I love, because she's Australian, and is like... Pretty much the perfect woman, for a lot of us in this sub) fits that latter description...
But that's literally become her "job", now (or so she says), which... Means I guess she has to "monetize" it, somehow... Especially after Youtube's demonetization (fuck I hate neologisms) efforts, for conservative "Creators" (again, neologism!) like her...
He’s really not. He just says occasional intelligent things. Just because he’s an academic who sometimes seems to be “on our side”, doesn’t make him “cool”, or “good” or “right”.
Can't tell if you're being serious, honestly... Ha.
But yeah, sorry I didn't "follow through", as it were, but it was kind of mentioned above, elsewhere in the thread, and vaguely in the OP...
I just didn't get to respond because uhh, it's Friday lunchtime where I am, and believe it or not I have a lot of shit to do in the next 5-6 hours, lol, so I didn't even see the notification/reply. Apologies...
I'm not going to waste time watching because anyone willing to subject themselves to a foreign substance with zero knowledge about what's in it or what it actually does because there are zero longitudinal studies available is a fool and an idiot.
If your own life isn't worth waiting and researching for then you don't have much leeway in giving advice about someone else's life.
All that being said, is Peterson now going to subject himself to booster shots every six months just so they can "leave him alone"?
As perceptive as he has been on many topics, he’s REALLY naive on government, modern relationships, women, and more.
I can forgive him on his naivety on relationships maybe because he’s older and not dating. I can probably even forgive him on modern women, because his daughter epitomizes many of the problems with modern women and he probably has rose colored glasses on for her.
But the government keeps affecting his personal life, and he’s just fucking sucks Daddy governments dick, slurps and smiles, then complains after it happens only to get on his knees the next time the door knocks.
Like my god wake the fuck up JP
Edit: if you wanna hear the smartest man rationalize delusion, watch his The Roommates interview.
I'm not sure he's a Christian. He defends Christianity as the foundation for Western civilization, but I don't think I've ever heard him state that he accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and savior.
I don't care if people get the vaccine or not. This is their health and their decision alone to make. I'm just so fucking sick of being preached about it.
Previous discussion from June. As usual, he "discovers" the "conspiracy theorists" are right just past the point where it's possible to do something about it. Crazy how that always happens...
What were the other times? He was right on the ball with the gender identity crap, and there are still people that consider the idea of the rainbow people intentionally poisoning our culture a conspiracy theory.
In general he's been really bad on WuFlu: 5 months ago he was saying how Canada had handled things pretty well and gave little mention of any of the mass violation of civil liberties that had been reported at the time (eg. arresting restaurant owners and church pastors). I know he's had health issues, but I consider his silence on the matter pretty deafening considering the magnitude.
I also don't remember him mentioning any particular concern about demographic shifts and the changes to Canadian culture that will ensue, or Trudeau's idea that Canada should be the first "post-national state", though I could be wrong about that.
You want an epidemiologist and political messiah but he's just a good psychologist. I too would be saying "f*ing leave me alone".
I want someone who can sense bullshit. I'm not an epidemiologist, and I sensed the bullshit. A lot of people did: they made the very basic observation that "if this thing's such a big deal how come I don't know anyone who got really sick from it? How come all the emergency hospitals are sitting empty?" And when the vaccines came out they said "they're going to force this on us, aren't they?" And when they weren't as effective as expected they said "they're going to double-down on this, aren't they?"
Saying "fucking leave me alone" 20 months into "14 days to flatten the curve" is easy. Half the population is saying the same thing. Where was Mr. "fucking leave me alone" in April of 2020? Or June of 2021, for that matter?
https://communities.win/p/140IdzEl64/x/c/4JINAOz5BDt
A psychologist that sees the value in stereotypes is someone to listen to. Whether to correct misconceptions, or accept short handed concepts. Any other kind is today's run of the mill academia.
A psychiatrist on the other hand, is just a trumped up pharmacist, with the power to make you lose your freedom.
I'd love to give that a try. I bet they'd still charge a lot to listen to my bullshit, though. And then they'd probably bait me into an argument that takes hours.
Mental illnesses are real conditions that need medical treatment, that’s why.
He's always been controlled opposition.
He claims to be an "expert" in totalitarian states but somehow failed to not see this coming?
Imagine if he said back in June what would have been a reasonable and balanced "centrist" position even then: "If you're in an at risk group you probably should get vaccinated because the risk of serious side effects is lower than the risk of serious illness, but I find it very strange the way nations and the media around the globe have been making an unprecedented nonstop push to get everyone in the world vaccinated. And because we've never done this before at this scale we don't really know the ramifications of doing so are. So because we're in uncharted territory I would urge everyone to use extra caution when making their own personal decisions here, and don't assume any particular person telling you what you should do has you and your family's best interests in mind because only you know that."
Instead it was "get the damned vaccine so we can get this over with".
That would have been the perfect thing to say. Also back then there had already been plenty of evidence that vaccinated people spread the disease just as much as unvaccinated making nuance as to whether to take it or not much more important. The "if you don't take it you are killing grandma and are worthless filth while I'm a hero" thing was NEVER a scientifically accurate position yet it was pushed one by the zealots.
Seriously, “X has always been controlled opposition” is basically a meme at this point. I can’t take anyone who says it seriously.
Jordan has always said he leans Left, which is why the Left labeling him alt-right was such a hoot.
JP has a lot of insight into human nature, psychology and related sciences but his political takes have always been rather naive. This is no different. At least he’s realizing his mistake.
He seems to really lean into trusting our systems, be they government, corporate, or academic. I can see why, given the stupendously high standard of living we enjoy.
However, I think he's too trusting. His philosophy is to tell the truth; that's great for you but if you assume that everyone else is at least trying to do the same, you're going to go for a bad ride. And what we're seeing is clearly not the simple matter of high level experts doing their best but falling short; at this point there is clear deception happening.
I think people of his age have a particularly hard time with this as well. They grew up with the idea of the government protecting them from powerful foreign enemies (which it did, more or less) and so they give it a pass when they maybe shouldn't.
People growing up after the fall of the Berlin Wall have seen nothing but our governments trying to invent bogeymen to justify the greedy, heartless, unscrupulous crap that they have always gotten away with. For us, it's obvious that they're lying and it's all gone too far.
I like JBP generally; he's got lots of good ideas, he's a captivating story teller and he's got courage. But he's not a god that we should follow blindly, no one person is.
Rather than attack people for not living up to what we thought they should be, we should practice forgiveness, especially when he's clearly and without qualification admitting his error.
I'm still wrestling with this topic because I gained a lot from Peterson years ago, but have had some issues with him over the past year. So I see why people love him, and I see why some worry he's controlled opposition (he's probably not going to go deep into Solzhenitsyn "200 years" That's ok because I will, and don't think we even need any famous people to share the information for us).
It's reminded me not to blindly follow anyone as you say. But also not completely deserting someone because they say something I disagree with either.
Peterson in a way was a stepping stone for many who didn't have a strong father figure. Now that we have cleaned our damn rooms it's time we become men ourselves.
Nah, fuck him. He's made this exact error numerous times already. See my comment to Nihilist Caregiver in this thread.
That's a fair criticism. We could probably benefit from more precise terminology rather than lumping everything under that label.
On the other hand, Peterson is someone I actively distrust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXYuqrO8LLo
From your pragmatic standpoint, knowing someone's limitations up-front is valuable to avoid putting them in situations where they will fail to do something beneficial that is either expected of them or they have historically done under different circumstances.
For example one problem I have noted for a long time is that the most vocal and public defenders of people on the right are liberals (eg. Peterson, Tim Pool, Joe Rogan), and a time will inevitably come when the right goes someplace these liberals can't follow; at which point they'll stop defending the right at best and at worst turn coat and attack.
It does get tossed around too much but in this case I think its accurate.
He was a socialist until he realize he hated his fellow socialists
He called MGTOW men "vermin" until he actually talked to some of them
He wanted to believe the Kavanugh accusations at first because it would be mean not to.
Hell, he claims he's read all of Neitszche's works but ignores how much he hated Christians.
Now this COVID shit. Whether he does it on purpose or not, the dudes entire philosphy revolves around being a cuck until its too late
Don't worry, it's all fine. He said "suspends judgement for 6 months" in June, so there's a whole month before we can think again! It got worse every 2 weeks for the past 20 months, but I'm sure this time, all will finally be fixed!
Hopefully this makes him and his audience more radical.
I will say that you seem obsessed with calling him an expert in totalitarianism, when he's actually a clinical psychologist? Sure he talks about Weimar and the USSR a lot, but so do I? If you've read The Gulag Archipelago, you're as much an "expert".
I believe he himself has claimed that title several times in interviews/talks as a result of some deep study of totalitarian regimes he did when he was younger to better understand the 1940s; it's certainly not one I would confer.
Gonna need some sauce on that. Peterson was the second step back into radicalism for me and I'm rather sure I've only heard him call himself a clinical psychologist over and over and over and over. I haven't been following him closely for at least a year now, but, in the hundreds of hours that I've watched of him speak from 2015 to 2019 I cannot recall an instance where he did that.
In the lecture series that I've watched from UofT he was always explaining totalitarianism to get to a point about psychology. Could be wrong, happy to be wrong, but that doesn't add up to me yet.
Yeah I'm not going to search though videos looking for that. I believe it was an interview where he was mentioning that the West has a very clear idea of the limiting principle for right-wing ideology which is the Holocaust and Nazi Germany but has no corresponding limiting principle for left-wing ideology and as a result is unprepared for when the left has gone too far (which is obviously correct now that we're all living in that world).
That's fair, and when/if I do watch him in the future I'll listen more closely to how and what he ascribes to himself.
People are unfair. They expect too much from the man.
People crave leadership, then look for a moment of opportunity to kick the pedestal out from underneath their leaders.
Fuck it’s nice to have been right, long before this smug turd and his personality cult realised it.
Fucking brilliant. 👌🏻 chef’s kiss
Sorry fanboys and fangirls, but Peterson is wrong solidly the majority of the time. As they say, a stopped clock, and such…
Seems to be slowly losing it, too, which is… Sad, but also somewhat amusing to watch!
Also, in a similar vein, to all of you “Stans” out there, please, please stop defending Lauren Southern. She really isn’t who, or what, you seem to think she (STILL) is. She hasn’t been that for a long time. I really don’t know what else to tell you… 😐
Yeah, there's very few guys that are focused on actually changing politics.
Yeah... Sadly, I think even Ms Sydney Watson (who I love, because she's Australian, and is like... Pretty much the perfect woman, for a lot of us in this sub) fits that latter description...
But that's literally become her "job", now (or so she says), which... Means I guess she has to "monetize" it, somehow... Especially after Youtube's demonetization (fuck I hate neologisms) efforts, for conservative "Creators" (again, neologism!) like her...
#sargon things
He’s really not. He just says occasional intelligent things. Just because he’s an academic who sometimes seems to be “on our side”, doesn’t make him “cool”, or “good” or “right”.
I mean, I don't, uhh, agree with that at all, either, but... Ok?
Telling people to get vaccinated and to "stop thinking critically for six months" is THE WRONG direction. That be my point.
Can't tell if you're being serious, honestly... Ha.
But yeah, sorry I didn't "follow through", as it were, but it was kind of mentioned above, elsewhere in the thread, and vaguely in the OP...
I just didn't get to respond because uhh, it's Friday lunchtime where I am, and believe it or not I have a lot of shit to do in the next 5-6 hours, lol, so I didn't even see the notification/reply. Apologies...
I'm not going to waste time watching because anyone willing to subject themselves to a foreign substance with zero knowledge about what's in it or what it actually does because there are zero longitudinal studies available is a fool and an idiot.
If your own life isn't worth waiting and researching for then you don't have much leeway in giving advice about someone else's life.
All that being said, is Peterson now going to subject himself to booster shots every six months just so they can "leave him alone"?
A little physical exertion and their hearts will explode, so mission accomplished I guess.
They will never leave you alone if they know they can control you.
He’s one of the smartest stupid people I’ve seen.
As perceptive as he has been on many topics, he’s REALLY naive on government, modern relationships, women, and more.
I can forgive him on his naivety on relationships maybe because he’s older and not dating. I can probably even forgive him on modern women, because his daughter epitomizes many of the problems with modern women and he probably has rose colored glasses on for her.
But the government keeps affecting his personal life, and he’s just fucking sucks Daddy governments dick, slurps and smiles, then complains after it happens only to get on his knees the next time the door knocks.
Like my god wake the fuck up JP
Edit: if you wanna hear the smartest man rationalize delusion, watch his The Roommates interview.
It's 1h 48m, anything in particular that I should skip to?
I don’t remember specifics at this point I watched it a while ago. I just recall many blue pill bullshit by JP to rationalize modern behaviors.
Even Hafeez, who is pretty based, was star struck and agreed with stuff he has railed against before lol
I just hope JP wakes up. He’s so smart about so much but still believes in the system too much I think.
peterson is another boomer who got fooled by mass media propoganda. to all of our utter surprise
this is the guy who said the media was trying to take him out? and he falls for the hook and sinker... peter's not as smart as he seemed before.
Welcome to the party pal.
This guy is a spineless moron. Canadian and christian, aka a natural born cuck.
I'm not sure he's a Christian. He defends Christianity as the foundation for Western civilization, but I don't think I've ever heard him state that he accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and savior.
I don't care if people get the vaccine or not. This is their health and their decision alone to make. I'm just so fucking sick of being preached about it.