This is why Jews are Jews and not Christians, among many other reasons, but I don't think I ever really learned the historical reasoning for the rejection at the time of his death. Whether you believe Jesus is the son of God, he was a real person.
I just don't understand how and why exactly they didn't believe he was the son of God, and how they managed to survive for so long not believing it.
From my understanding they rejected him mostly because he didn't rebuild the temple and free them from Roman rule.
I imagine the last part of your question is in bad faith and is just a veiled attack on Christianity
Nah, I know there's agnostics and atheists who use this site that aren't Imp, so wanted to get that out of the way so I'm not arguing about that
Because his teachings contradicted their racial supremacy narrative and threatened their political hegemony among the jews
They were expecting a warrior that would conquer the Romans
Well... Christianity conquered Rome and destroyed it.
Not quite. Rome lasted for more than a millennium. And the Western Empire was troubled long before Christianity became the official state religion.
If a nation gets threatened from the outside and destabilized from the inside because of retarded religious insanity it becomes impossible for it to defend itself from invaders. Which is what happened.
Christianity becoming the official state religion and every non-Christian religion being outlawed and persecuted made it impossible for Rome to stabilize again and was the final killing blow.
That old Gibbon thesis has long been discredited.
So why did the Eastern Roman Empire, which was more Chrisitan than the West, survive?
It didn't. That's why Constantinople is called Istanbul.
It survived for more than 1100 years after Constantine. Was there ever an empire that lived longer?
Wasn't really an empire for that entire time. Byzantine never became the behemoth the Roman Empire was. And it was destroyed for pretty much the same reasons as Rome. Inner religious conflicts weakened it to a point where it couldn't defend itself anymore from the Muslim invaders.
True but people were expecting Jesus to ride in and do it. I guess those people couldn’t see the big picture
Look at the fallen, evil state of modern jewry - it's the same energy the pharisees and their followers have always had.
Because the pharisees and modern jews are the same people.
It's worth nothing that the spiritual leaders at the time, the Pharesees, were VERY legalistic. There was a prevailing mindset, that Jesus called out repeatedly. As long as the letter of the law was followed, one could do whatever they wanted, otherwise. This led to grandiose displays of public piety. The original Virtue Signaling.
Now, imagine being in this position, a corrupt official, utterly convinced of your own righteousness. Suddenly, this rabble-rouser shows up who is living up to multiple messianic prophesies, figuratively and literally. He's winning hearts and minds, and is unkind to you and yours, calling out your hypocrisy and insincerity. Is it any wonder they turned on Him?
Granted, some were won over, like Nicodemus. But with the majority of the religious authorities so utterly against Him, it's unsurprising they were able to take swaths of sheep with them.
You forget the Sadducees who said anything was good so long as they held power.
I didn't feel comfortable speaking specifics on them. I don't remember their details quite so well.
Pretend you have the Yassids and the Liberal Jews. Bought the same.
When people say that anti-semitism is the "oldest hatred", they are wrong. First of all, because it originates in about 1800, secondly, because even anti-Judaism isn't the oldest hatred or even close to.
All the people who were hated more haven't lived to tell the tale. Have you heard of cathars or Waldensians? Where are the Edomites or Moabites? Where are the Avars? Where are the ancient pagans or the druids? Persecuted out of existence. If there were actual Druids still, as opposed to larpers, they might well claim to be more hated than the Jews... but since they were extirpated or otherwise disappeared, they won't. Doesn't mean we should believe in understandable Jewish delusions which are bad for them and bad for us.
Judaism survived because of Christianity, not in spite of it. According to Christian thinkers like Augustine, Jews were entitled to a certain amount of respect and also to witnesses to the truth of the Old Testament - which has value in that it contains the prophecies of Christ's coming. Claims that Christians persecuted Jews are lies - pogroms, persecutions, etc. were almost never officially sanctioned by either church or state, and the Spanish Inquisition had no jurisdiction over Jews (except in the infinitesimal number of cases where Jews were accused of spreading heresy among Christians), only over former Jews who had converted to Christianity and who were alleged to be Judaizing like so many genitally disfigured, Israel-shilling American "Christians" today actually do.
As for why Jews reject Jesus Christ: they believe that the Messiah is supposed to be a powerful figure who vanquishes all, not a powerless, crucified criminal (in their view).
They got their shit kicked in with the real-life Vampire Killer whip and they got upset about that.
You could ask them but they're in hell.
Personally I think it's because of the same sins they practice today, that being that they think God is a genie and that religion is transactional. That's why they worship the devil these days. They don't want to be good and do good because it's worthwhile in itself, they want to cut the chicken's throat and do a dance and chant the magic words and make stuff happen like the stone age barbarians they are at heart.
Christ's birth and resurrection was in effect God rejecting their slot machine behavior and incessant idolatry.
Read the entirety of John 8.
They hated him because he told the truth. And they had him tortured and killed for it to protect their monopoly on being "God's Chosen" (Titus did his best to set them straight)
Jews thought (and still think) that the Rich & Powerful Messiah will come and who will smite all of their enemies and serve all their interests.
Instead they got a lowbrow, peaceful. humble drifting beggar who was converting Jews to His way. Basically doing the complete opposite of what they expected.
Ties in with the jew concept of god (a petty, jealous, vindictive asshole who basically makes up restrictive laws based on whatever his neurosis is feeling at that given moment - essentially a jew with unlimited power and the ultimate jew power fantasy)
Christ spoke the truth to them (John 8:39-44) and they killed Him for it (Matthew 27:23-25)
Why did they reject Elijah? Elisha? Isaiah? The judges? Joseph? Abraham? Why did David fall so greatly and write psalms so amazingly?
Pontius Pilot was told by his wife not to like Joshua of Mary, and yet the politics said he had to. Every legend they had placed the prophets as these great men who had powers like the gods. Who would reject Moses? Yet he was rejected several times. A normal looking man who does have great power, but chooses to be human like us is hard to accept. They want Hercules and the stories of Elijah to be constantly happening. Isaiah was performing miracles and was sawed in half. Daniel performed miracles and yet the people did not care. The only reason why Joshua wasn't rejected was he had no problems with beating people to death.
Basically, they wanted the Aang from the last episode of Avatar the Last Airbender, and not the actual kid who did it all. We know the stories, but that's the highlights, not the normal boring days.
When we only look at the human, we often reject the idea of all that could be done by one. Even greater, what God can do with them. I feel the same way about technology and art.
Daryl Cooper aka Martyr Made did a post that discussed this recently on his sub stack. Essentially, they're jealous as they consider themselves the chosen, but also bitter from recent losses to Rome, and the idea of forming a covenant with them was repulsive to a sect of Jewish zealots.
A lot of people began to wrongly believe that the coming Messiah would be establishing an earthly kingdom (that comes later) and free them from Roman rule. Over the 400 years between OT and NT, the belief likely evolved from the Israelites losing their powerful kingdom because of their forefathers sins, and the wishful thinking of wanting it back. Imagine growing up in Judea in 0 AD, you hear and read stories from when your people were the premier power in the world, your own scripture talks all about it and what happened then, while you live in a token state on the edge of civilization after 10/12's of your people were permanently scoured from the land God gave you. You'd probably put a lot of faith in the coming Messiah, which Isaiah describes as a conqueror and king.
They just completely missed Isaiah 53, which is just a minor issue /s
Ever heard of the “second coming”? Even Christians agree Christ didn’t “fulfill” all the “prophecies” - Christians will say “yet”, jews will just leave it at that
Here’s the jewgle ai with a bit more:
My god, the stormfaggot actually says something vaguely on topic.
This would actually be funny if you had any trace of the self awareness required to allow for self deprecating humor.
Thanks for admitting everything you said is a lie.
Meh. You can ask the same kind of question for any schism or division or new religion.
"Why didn't the Jews and Christians believe that Muhammad was the final prophet of God? Whether you believe he's the final prophet or not, he was a real person. How did they survive so long not believing it?"
"Why didn't the Christians in America believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet?"
My non-flippant answer... Jews believe they are the chosen people. They believe in a covenant with God (this covenant being symbolized with circumcision). Why WOULD they go along with Jesus--a universalist religion, a removal of the covenant, etc.
Jews who became Christians lost an integral part of their identity.
Because he fulfilled the prophecy they claimed to support.
No?
Clearly they didn't, and don't, agree.
Yes. Moses and the covenant. The Jews were selected by god for a reason (this is their belief, not mine). Now Jesus says, if you follow me, there is no covenant. All men are equally the children of God.
If you are a well off Jew, why would you give up your honored position to become one of everyone else? Clearly some did, but many did not.
Across the world when looking at religious conversion, the groups most likely to convert are the poor, those without social standing, those without power.
Poor Christians in Egypt and the Middle East were universally the most likely to convert. For centuries in Egypt and the Ottoman Empire, Christians actually formed a wealthy minority. The poor Christians who couldn't pay the jizya (Islamic tax on non-Muslims) could just convert and no longer pay the tax.
Conversion and religion is NOT solely a spiritual decision.
Truth isn’t a matter of agreement.
The thing that Christ’s coming fulfilled, and which the entire Old Testament says would only last until Christ’s coming? The thing they reject, you mean?
So you don’t roast forever in hell, having abandoned God? Because your allegiance is to faith and not flesh? Because you are more about the things that are objective than the things that are subjective?
And we see what happened to them when they made the objectively wrong decision.
Now you're just arguing in bad faith. You asked for the "historical reasoning" and I, and other posters, have given you several historical explanations and examples. If you want to have a conversation about Christian and Jewish theology, prophetic fulfillment, theodicy, polemics, etc., there have been millions of words written on those topics over the last 2000 years. Read some books.
I'll give you that one--fear of punishment is part of the decision to convert, or not to convert, for some people.
I don’t care.
Where gentiles reject from ignorance, what we call the jews today rejected from knowledge. Their behavior is singularly bad and uniquely subversive.
How singularly bad are Jews compared to Muslims or Mormons? Polytheist Hindus?
Gee, I wonder.
It is a mystery.
A race of lawyers cannot coexist with the physical manifestation of Truth itself.
There were several "messiahs" around in those times, not just Jesus. Essentially Jews are still waiting for the real messiah.
Lots of other religions out there & they also survived, not sure what you mean :/