if it works, and is reliable, then it would obliterate the organ harvesting market. Organ harvesters swarm hospitalized people like vultures, sometimes even convincing the hospital to pull the plug when the person has a good chance of living. nothing of value would be lost if they were replaced.
Ah, last I heard they went through with the opt-out. I still think there might be some scenarios where you have issues if you do not opt-out i.e. your relatives might have a say in what should happen to you or you are on life-support(from which people have woken up years later before). I'd just opt-out generally and I did just in case.
There's a whole xenotype in Rimworld that started because of this haha.
In my opinion, it's a bad idea. We're in a period of time, which will most likely be brief, where we can organ transplant, but can't yet grow/print organs. It's better to skip over the animal sacrifice and just push towards better tech.
The vanilla races expanded mod makes it so they have pork flesh, so it doesn't count as cannibalism when your colonists butcher them, and they have a gene where they slowly regenerate organs, so you can farm them for lungs and kidneys.
The future is 3D printing a cartilage scaffolding and seeding it with the patients own stem cells.
Personally I don't think we should even be doing human to human transplants. It creates too many perverse incentives. The chinese in particular are forcefully removing organs from political prisoners. Saw-tier shit like removing a prisoner's heart and lungs, then keeping them alive on a machine until someone needs the other parts. This is provable just from the fact that they allowed you to schedule an organ transplant.
And not too long ago there was a nurse alleging priority listing of israeli nationals for organ transplants. I don't put too much stock in that though, as if it was happening at my workplace I would collect more proof or handle the situation myself instead of making a tik tok makeup vid.
It's unnatural filth. If you think that it's OK because it seems to be from a consequentialist POV, consider how much of the trouble we are in is the result of believing that there is no boundary we should not cross.
These have actually been in development for a long while. South Park even made an episode relating to this with the penis mouse. To break it down, they’re using genetically modified pigs as organ incubators, multiple attempts have been made, none worked longer than a few weeks, and in one case the person got a pig heart with a pig virus, which could open a whole can of worms with a new novel virus being created.
After buying my house and redoing the floors I found an old newspaper from the 1970s talking about this same shit. I've also read a book about the babylonian era when they tried this same shit.
Humans calling themselves doctors have been trying to put animal parts into other humans for as long as there have been humans calling themselves doctors. It's killed a LOT of people.
Several hundred to thousands of cases of "brain dead" individuals waking up after the fact. Even on the opperating table as their organs are being "harvested". Either "brain death" was a myth, or it's declaration is prone to vast amounts of human error. In either case, it's unethical/immoral to continue to believe such a thing exists.
Just think logically for a moment. We know the brain controls everything in your body. If the brain dies, everything in your body stops. So what is this ephemeral state where the brain is "dead" yet everything in the body continues to work? And who convinced your this breach of logic is reality? And who profits off of living bodies with functional organs, that can only be harvested from a living body, to claim "oh yeah, this guy's totally healthy and functional body is actually dead right now! Lets harvest his $500k worth of organs before he really dies!"
We know the brain controls everything in your body. If the brain dies, everything in your body stops. So what is this ephemeral state where the brain is "dead" yet everything in the body continues to work?
...not brain death? If your body can function without external support, it's not brain death, it's a coma or vegetative state. Did you just forget that life support is a thing? It's half the reason why we needed to get more precise about the definition of death in the first place.
There is a really dark story by Alfred Haus -I don't think he's released it- about a colony ship slowly going to its location. Some of the crew are awake while everyone else is kept in cryo sleep. A crew member gets pregnant and chooses to let the ship kill her to let the baby live. The guy who is the father talks to another crew member about growing up born by a ship.
I would think organs grown from human stem cells would be easier to harvest, result in less waste, and could be tailored to the patient, but what do I know. Using animal organs sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Not only do you have unprecedented graft vs. host to worry about, but what about novel mutant viral strains? Eating raw ape flesh led to HIV in humans, what could fusing with raw pig lead to?
I've heard stories of people having personality changes after organ transplants. I assume at least some of it is exaggerated, but I also think that—just due to newness and rarity and complexity—a lot of this stuff may be underexplored. Animal organ transplants seem theoretically good. I see I'm not the first person to mention the unethical pressure that human organ harvesting currently puts on. But while I'm not expecting things to go all the way to The Fly, I'm also more than a little wary of this headline.
My mom had her bowel bypassed for a little bit after having some diverticulitis surgery. And just that not even adding a new organ effected her personality. The trauma of surgery only will shift a person. Add the baggage of knowing something foreign is inside you, and that something might have been from a dead person is probably enough to fuck with most people.
I feel kinda stupid about it. I can't articulate why, but it feels wrong to use animals that way. Which is weird because I eat animals. I find cows and pigs adorable and I eat them a lot. And really I should support using the whole buffalo treatment, but I just can't.
I wouldn't promote it to the general population, but it's not a bad idea if we're talking about people who need real organs immediately to stay alive for longer periods without being hooked up to machines permanently.
Especially in the event of war and mass casualty incidents. If we can just store X amount of pig organs for emergency use, I'm not opposed to it. Just don't make it standard.
I don't know if I really have a clear stance on it. Biblically we have dominion over animals, so using them for organs isn't a sin. And I don't know what happens to animal organs after being slaughtered for food. Obviously some parts are used for food, livers and such.
But I also like animals and don't want them abused or used. Which admittedly is a weird stance because I'm a big meat eater.
I can't help you on the Biblical stance on it because of my rejection of religion.
What I can say is that any good farmer can tell you that the food we eat must be well cared for.
If there's a religious aspect to it, I suspect it would be the sacral duty of care you have to lesser beings who depend on you for survival, and for that care you feed off of them. Your duty of care should be mixed with gratitude, I suppose.
if it works, and is reliable, then it would obliterate the organ harvesting market. Organ harvesters swarm hospitalized people like vultures, sometimes even convincing the hospital to pull the plug when the person has a good chance of living. nothing of value would be lost if they were replaced.
Hospitals swarm hospitalized people like vultures.
It's especially bad in Germany where you have to opt out intentionally else you'll be ripe for the harvesting.
AFAIK it's still opt-in in Germany.
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/faq-organspende-2194126
Edit: they tried to change it to opt-out but couldn't get it passed.
Ah, last I heard they went through with the opt-out. I still think there might be some scenarios where you have issues if you do not opt-out i.e. your relatives might have a say in what should happen to you or you are on life-support(from which people have woken up years later before). I'd just opt-out generally and I did just in case.
Sounds tasty.
There's a whole xenotype in Rimworld that started because of this haha.
In my opinion, it's a bad idea. We're in a period of time, which will most likely be brief, where we can organ transplant, but can't yet grow/print organs. It's better to skip over the animal sacrifice and just push towards better tech.
I agree, this sounds like something will have some unintended consequences.
The vanilla races expanded mod makes it so they have pork flesh, so it doesn't count as cannibalism when your colonists butcher them, and they have a gene where they slowly regenerate organs, so you can farm them for lungs and kidneys.
You can probably get more meat from raiders than trying to farm a buncha piglets.
What do you think gets sacrificed to grow organs? I'll give you hint, it's not dumb animals.
Organ harvesting was always a fun playthrough method.
The future is 3D printing a cartilage scaffolding and seeding it with the patients own stem cells.
Personally I don't think we should even be doing human to human transplants. It creates too many perverse incentives. The chinese in particular are forcefully removing organs from political prisoners. Saw-tier shit like removing a prisoner's heart and lungs, then keeping them alive on a machine until someone needs the other parts. This is provable just from the fact that they allowed you to schedule an organ transplant.
And not too long ago there was a nurse alleging priority listing of israeli nationals for organ transplants. I don't put too much stock in that though, as if it was happening at my workplace I would collect more proof or handle the situation myself instead of making a tik tok makeup vid.
The chinese did this transplant
It's unnatural filth. If you think that it's OK because it seems to be from a consequentialist POV, consider how much of the trouble we are in is the result of believing that there is no boundary we should not cross.
These have actually been in development for a long while. South Park even made an episode relating to this with the penis mouse. To break it down, they’re using genetically modified pigs as organ incubators, multiple attempts have been made, none worked longer than a few weeks, and in one case the person got a pig heart with a pig virus, which could open a whole can of worms with a new novel virus being created.
After buying my house and redoing the floors I found an old newspaper from the 1970s talking about this same shit. I've also read a book about the babylonian era when they tried this same shit.
Humans calling themselves doctors have been trying to put animal parts into other humans for as long as there have been humans calling themselves doctors. It's killed a LOT of people.
In this article the brain dead patient they performed the procedure on died after a few days.
There's no such thing as brain dead.
How so?
Several hundred to thousands of cases of "brain dead" individuals waking up after the fact. Even on the opperating table as their organs are being "harvested". Either "brain death" was a myth, or it's declaration is prone to vast amounts of human error. In either case, it's unethical/immoral to continue to believe such a thing exists.
Just think logically for a moment. We know the brain controls everything in your body. If the brain dies, everything in your body stops. So what is this ephemeral state where the brain is "dead" yet everything in the body continues to work? And who convinced your this breach of logic is reality? And who profits off of living bodies with functional organs, that can only be harvested from a living body, to claim "oh yeah, this guy's totally healthy and functional body is actually dead right now! Lets harvest his $500k worth of organs before he really dies!"
...not brain death? If your body can function without external support, it's not brain death, it's a coma or vegetative state. Did you just forget that life support is a thing? It's half the reason why we needed to get more precise about the definition of death in the first place.
Yes there is.
As long as Muslims don't get preferential treatment for human organs.
3D printed by a robot womb?
There is a really dark story by Alfred Haus -I don't think he's released it- about a colony ship slowly going to its location. Some of the crew are awake while everyone else is kept in cryo sleep. A crew member gets pregnant and chooses to let the ship kill her to let the baby live. The guy who is the father talks to another crew member about growing up born by a ship.
I would like more info about this story...
Obviously. I mean, the alternative is shady human organ harvesting.
They've been using pig parts in heart valve transplants for 60 years. I guess this is a first for an entire organ?
I would think organs grown from human stem cells would be easier to harvest, result in less waste, and could be tailored to the patient, but what do I know. Using animal organs sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Not only do you have unprecedented graft vs. host to worry about, but what about novel mutant viral strains? Eating raw ape flesh led to HIV in humans, what could fusing with raw pig lead to?
I wonder if this is a vector for new diseases and man made horrors beyond comprehension. I can see a tyranny wanting a womb and having piglets.
I think DNA cultured 3d printed organs will exist in large quantities before animal organs can be a normal thing
I've heard stories of people having personality changes after organ transplants. I assume at least some of it is exaggerated, but I also think that—just due to newness and rarity and complexity—a lot of this stuff may be underexplored. Animal organ transplants seem theoretically good. I see I'm not the first person to mention the unethical pressure that human organ harvesting currently puts on. But while I'm not expecting things to go all the way to The Fly, I'm also more than a little wary of this headline.
My mom had her bowel bypassed for a little bit after having some diverticulitis surgery. And just that not even adding a new organ effected her personality. The trauma of surgery only will shift a person. Add the baggage of knowing something foreign is inside you, and that something might have been from a dead person is probably enough to fuck with most people.
I feel kinda stupid about it. I can't articulate why, but it feels wrong to use animals that way. Which is weird because I eat animals. I find cows and pigs adorable and I eat them a lot. And really I should support using the whole buffalo treatment, but I just can't.
I agree with you, and I don't think it's necessary to articulate it much further. "This is morally wrong" is a very useful response on its own.
I wouldn't promote it to the general population, but it's not a bad idea if we're talking about people who need real organs immediately to stay alive for longer periods without being hooked up to machines permanently.
Especially in the event of war and mass casualty incidents. If we can just store X amount of pig organs for emergency use, I'm not opposed to it. Just don't make it standard.
I don't know if I really have a clear stance on it. Biblically we have dominion over animals, so using them for organs isn't a sin. And I don't know what happens to animal organs after being slaughtered for food. Obviously some parts are used for food, livers and such.
But I also like animals and don't want them abused or used. Which admittedly is a weird stance because I'm a big meat eater.
I can't help you on the Biblical stance on it because of my rejection of religion.
What I can say is that any good farmer can tell you that the food we eat must be well cared for.
If there's a religious aspect to it, I suspect it would be the sacral duty of care you have to lesser beings who depend on you for survival, and for that care you feed off of them. Your duty of care should be mixed with gratitude, I suppose.