Neil Druckmann really wants you to hate Joel Miller
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Gotta own the anti-vaxxers.
And reiterate that the needs of the one can fuck right off if the many want to kill you to benefit themselves. For the greater good.
Minority rights suddenly evaporate when we start talking about the smallest minority possible.
You win, Kneel Druckmann. I hate your characters so much I will never buy another game with your name on it.
TL:DR - Neil Druckmann says Fireflies definitely could have produced a cure. And one of the arguments people used to defend Joel, was that the cure wasn't real. Found materials, in the game, through the hospital indicated that finding a cure was a longshot.
They had Joel, in the show, say that the cure would have definitely be made.
Now this is supposed to nullify the argument that Joel saved Ellie against a nebulous operation. It makes no difference to me, I think Joel was correct and trading lives is a dangerous thing to do.
Even if a cure could be made, logistics and supply chains are still fucked, not to mention most of humanity went feral. At best it'd be a plot MacGuffin for different warlords to fight over in an alternate universe's TLoU2.
Yeah them being able to "make a cure" is almost the least unlikely part of the step. At least for that they have doctors and an immune patient.
Them actually fixing anything even with one has always been the big "question 2" of why question 1 barely matters. Especially as their actions of "knock you out, take her without a word, and dump you" shows how morally fucked they already are, and likely will be worse once they have the only cure to abuse to their liking.
The idea that they would think it would be a good idea to kill their only source of fresh material is laughable and shows the writers did very little research into how these things are made.
With only the first game's lore, it was both implied or stated that they were mostly hacks. A bunch of almost terrorists holed up in a hospital with a guy who knows something medical, so clearly that made them doctors and researchers. You could find an item that said it wasn't even the first immune patient they got, and they butchered the previous one with nothing gained and were about to do the literal same procedure on Ellie.
Literally, with all information given both to the player and Joel, there is zero reason to trust they know what they are doing. They skip every single attempt to ingratiate themselves to instead be assholes, brutes, or rush something.
There is a reason why Part 2 had to spend a huge chunk of its runtime on flashbacks, because they were literally all necessary for the huge retcon needed to even remotely make it a "grey" choice, let alone the "correct" one Neil keeps trying to say.
And I hate the argument becomes Joel took Ellie's choice away. The Fireflies never gave Ellie a choice, they lied to her. I'd still defend Joel if Ellie gave her consent and Joel went apeshit saving her.
Yeah, she literally years later after a shit ton of trauma "consents" to it, but I can guarantee if she was asked when they got to the hospital she would at least hesitate if not refuse.
Its why they had to create a DLC to give Ellie a bunch of suicidal guilt to try and justify it, which is still not acceptable "consent" in any other discussion.
They literally have to break all their various rules and principles regarding informed and enthusiastic consent just to say "let the teenage girl be butchered for the greater good maybe."
Ellie's consent should never have been a factor. She was borderline suicidal at that point, convinced that it wasn't worth living in such a rotten world where everyone she ever knew and cared about died. The last thing she needs is to have people start drilling it into her head that she needs to die, that she has to die, and that the whole world depends on her dying. People who, likely only a few hours ago, were ready to kill her anyway just for her boots.
As someone who cares for her, it was indeed Joel's moral obligation to save and protect Ellie, both from the Fireflies and from herself.
Couldn't agree more.
It's twenty years after all the medical schools closed down. They were pretty much at witch doctor/medieval "bleed them with leaches" level of surgery.
Goofy Fireflies would have probably believed in some kind of wacky homeopathic nonsense where dropping a pinch of Ellie's brain in a bucket of water = cure.
From everything I've heard, the whole "they could definitely for real make a cure" thing is entirely post hoc, and does not match with what's actually presented in the game. It's just an example of a creator shitting on his own work because he doesn't like how people enjoy it, and should be ignored.
(And that's giving him full, possibly undeserved, credit as sole creator. I know they had at least one big name writer/producer depart, and I don't know how much that person may have worked on the original TLOU).
It doesn't even matter because the Fireflies are made out to be cartoonish villains on par with Nazis.
There is just about zero medical benefit to vivisection vs a minor biopsy or simple blood sample. and since immunity is mostly likely genetic the only real way to "save humanity" would be to breed Elly like a prize racehorse.
The entirety of TLoU2 and everything after it is Neil Druckmann is having an extremely Jewish meltdown over having accidentally wrote a story where the message is that White people need to have children.
Druckmann had Bruce Straley to tard-wrangle his Jewy excess in the first game.
You can tell Neil resented the goy for ruining his vision, seeing how Bruce didn't get any credit, not even an honorable mention, for the first season of The Last of Us show.
There are clues you can find in the game with the doctor talking about the low chances of finding a cure. It's not a definite smoking gun it wouldn't have worked, but it did become part of the debate surrounding Joel's actions.
I think the person you're talking about who left is Amy Hennig
Yes, Amy Henning. Thank you.
Lol Jewish man deems unethical experimentation on unwilling subjects is a moral imperative
It seems like every single character that he didn't create, he has to destroy.
Now where have I seen that school of thought before.
They said they were making a vaccine. You can't vaccinate against fungal infections. They were literally never going to fix it since they were trying to do the impossible.
And even if they realized you can't vax a fungus, they still would have killed Ellie for no reason, before the realization, thereby justifying Joel.
Stfu niggerfaggot Cuckman
The guy who's being cucked by a troon says what?
I like that he is still trying the same thing he did when part 2 came out, almost in the exact words, to once again save the same unlikeable characters and plot from once again turning people from a somewhat universally liked part 1 to an absolute trash fire part 2.
Like, this was his chance to "redeem" it with all the feedback given and let his "message and characters" finally land with an improved second attempt. And clearly his ego says everything was perfect and he should double down harder, everyone else was wrong.
Proving once again, that Druckmann is the entire reason for every failure of the IP. And that Part 1 was just a fluke leftover from Amy's tenure he hadn't rooted out yet.
They could in the sense that a girl could get roided in the fucking apocalypse, that a girl could randomly also have immunity and just happens to be Ellie's love interest, that a synagogue could randomly spawn in Seattle, that some doctor could change races, that Joel's actions have the same weight as the ones of a cannibal pdf, etc. That is to Say, because Druckmann owns the rights to the franchise.
It must eat him inside that he was unable to convey such moral ambiguity and that's why people side with Joel in the first place
"I would save my daughter from being murdered, but I wish that I wouldn't." What the hell?
Lol as if whether or not they could make a cure was even the biggest problem of that post hoc bullshit.
How do you mass produce it?
How do you redistribute it?
It does jack and shit, once you're already mutated.
What fucking difference does it make, when the biggest problem isn't becoming a zombie, it's either getting mauled to death by one or getting shot by a bandit.
Since the Fireflies are amoral assholes, we know they would have just use the cure to oppress the population.
Oh and considering they broke the deal, stole his shit and wanted to throw him out into the zombie infested hellhole without even so much as a knife or ration, Joel was entirely justified in murdering the shit out of all of them, instead of letting them kill a kid, after barely doing any testing.
Okay right off the bat
Let's call a spade a spade: Joel killed a lot of people who were trying to murder Ellie. I mean if what Joel did was murder, then killing a kid is also murder.
People were questioning it from the get-go why these doctors were chomping at the bit to kill Ellie immediately rather than try other approaches with her first before resorting to death. Like a biopsy. Ever heard of a biopsy? Doctors certainly should know what a biopsy is. Try a biopsy first instead of chopping her whole brain out, holy balls.
I don't care that much about whether the Fireflies could pull it off since Joel certainly didn't care.
But don't forget: anyone saying that Joel deserved to die is implicitly saying that Ellie deserves to die.
I always assumed the cure would have worked to some level. The whole point of the story was to grapple with the idea of choosing one over the many, so if they were just going to split Ellie's head open for no reason then it's not thought provoking at all.
The question is whether Joel saw enough worth in the world to give up his surrogate daughter's life, and the answer for him was NO. I'm fine with that.
The first one had some plausible deniability. The second part tho? It just sidelines the zombie stuff in favour of muh humans are the real monsters. Cuckmann inadvertently undid his own point