It’s niggification. That standard goes back much further in nigger culture. They have to have something to twerk and what not.
Do I think it’s deliberate in that there’s some puppet master doing this? Not really. It’s decades and decades of destroying the American black and worshipping them the whole way down. No one was doing this when black icons were Ella Fitzgerald and Nat King Cole, now that all is left is the lowest of the low niggers, you gotta follow whatever trend Lil Ho Fucker records on his latest ape sounds album.
You're right, but you're missing the role of social media.
though it's usually in spans of centuries
Fashion prior to the mid 00's didn't have stuff like Instagram pushing normal female fad-following behavior into overdrive. I make no claim about how much of it is authentic vs astroturfed but as far as adoption speed, it's important to consider.
I guess the MySpace era occupies that gap between online quick fad spread and the DEI push.
I first started seeing this trend pop up in Skyrim modding, with the kinds of modded companions and bodyslide presets people were coming up with.
I just thought it was a bunch of weirdos with a strange fetish, possibly deriving from some popular branch of anime or something. But then after a few years I started seeing it randomly pop up here and there in more mainstream circles.
Based on any number of other "strange" trends that we've seen pop up or expand in just the last decade, I'd say you're probably right, that this has to be yet another weird semi-spontaneous amalgamation produced through social media.
Furry fandom alone is a classic example of how this stuff can spread like an actual contagion. Mankind was ill prepared for a globally accessible Internet.
Was born in 80 but the thing that woke me up the the hatred of beauty first was comic books and video games. When I noticed every female had to be unattractive and also noticed the double standard since males with rippling muscles was ok (look at the cover of any romance novel). Add to that the DEI obsession and the constant push for the trio of black/lgbt/girl power. I think part of the decline also ties into the ridiculous push to make it seem like the norm is men and women who don’t conform to traditional gender appearances
Not the dude you're responding to, but it's always been obvious to me that most anime characters look most like white people. For as much as they can look like anyone with their humongous eyes and exaggerated features.
I'm implicitly aware that most of the time they're Japanese due to the setting and that this is just a choice made for stylistic purposes. I recall an episode of Log Horizon....in season 2 maybe(?) where the main character morphs himself to show what he looks like in real life. That is the closest attempt I've seen to portraying how actual Japanese people would look in anime form.
On the one hand the women in the below examples are grotesquely obese. That is as you suggested a deliberate nudge of standards, towards lower body obesity that is extremely common in black women. It's a deliberately degenerated standard.
But then we have picture number 2 of the above examples. I know who a couple of those women are, namely Gellar and Lavigne. Those two are still curvy and feminine. The second picture has hips like a teenage boy.
That is also the same problem but in a different direction. Another degenerated standard of beauty, in this case something pushed by gays who tend towards predation of little boys.
Overall you're right, these things are not naturally occuring shifts in standards.
First paragraph. I didn't disagree that it's not only disgusting, but also artificial. Not at any point did I say that it is presently going the other way. It has in the past, something my friends and I called "crackhead skinny".
I'm saying that it's fully possible to have degenerated standards of beauty in other directions.
There is a happy medium.
And again to answer your question about the present situation, it's completely artificial.
I suggest you make this post in /pol/ on 4chan or on ConPro (https://communities.win/c/ConsumeProduct/), since the mod here has made it against the rules to discuss the decline of western culture with meaninful honesty, maturity, or brevity.
Your post appreciates the problem purely via the behavior of white women and you are allowed to say anything about them in that context because you are not accusing them of expressing any collective or personal agency for their actions (otherwise you may be suggesting a conspiracy among their identity group, which violates the mod's "rule 16").
Paradoxically, even though you cannot blame women for their own actions- since that could equate to an accusation of conspiracy among an identity group- you cannot blame anyone else, either, since it could be considered an accusation of conspiracy among a different identity group instead.
You can phrase it rather carefully to discuss things without accusing anyone of anything, by using what I call "zero custody language". In Zero Custody Language a person does not shoot a victim, the victim simply "becomes shot." To use Zero Custody Language in an example:
the reason for the change in fashion among white women is quite similar to the reason music among blacks became so violent and rapey, and the reason everyday speech among British men became a crime, and the reason we have a net negative global economy with more debt in existence than dollars in existence.
But it is easier to just find a free speech forum without a mod who is definitely not a direct participant in the conspiracy theories he has banned, and type in plain language there.
OP If it was deliberate you'd see more zendaya and rachel ziegler type stars as "attractive"
I think a simple thing that you're overlooking is the prevalence of tights, something which didn't exist in the 90's too ubiquitous today.
Tight are essentially pushup bras for butts, and shape any fat there. Even a pushup bra can't make excess fat into extra boob. It shows the shape but not what's actually there so you can't tell if it's fat or legit glute muscle.
Watch the people who watch people. An attractive woman can turn heads. Women just under ideal bodyfat% will get second looks. Put them in the same clothes as the obesity crowd, the tights and tanktops, and they'll get third and fourth looks, outright staring. The higher bodyfat% women... Not as much. Some. But only some.
Beyond being "pushed" though (which I'm sure is happening on at least some levels), there's also the element of implied mental state. Buffy the Vampire Slayer up there in picture 1 clearly takes care of herself. Her body signals independence. Which, I mean, is kinda the point of Buffy. Well-off men would like a woman who can entertain herself, who while devoted, is also an active agent in life. The picture group 2 women, by contrast, signal that they need help. They're NOT independent, they're a submissive caste, presenting an animalistic mating ritual in hopes of being bred by a dominant example (I don't care if they think it's not that, that is exactly what that is in every other species of animal). Men want what they can't have: In the 80s, that meant a woman who could actually take care of herself and not need her husband to be the title's namesake and literally husband her life. In the 2020s, that means the reverse, a woman who needs some (or a lot of) husbandry, directing her life in a more positive direction.
Or in other words, when society was sane and in-control, men wanted good women so they could keep interacting with the sane society without worry. With an insane society, men want a woman they can fix, so there's at least something they can feel they have a positive impact on in society.
Proliferation of pornography. Given the average age of exposure to it is something like eight years old now, it shouldn't be surprising the over-exaggerated forms have become the new "beauty" standard.
Somewhere around the mid 90s, Brazilian style exercise made it's way over here.
The kind that tones and firms the thighs and butt. And it makes it look appealing, at least to some.
So a lot of women went and put in the work. It got a boost with news, media and social media as well as the kardashians. (who totally didn't get work done by the way, everyone just gains 30 pounds in their ass and tits overnight if they think about it hard enough.) Another butterfy effect/OJ bystander if you ask me. Their father was part of the dream team of lawyers, Robert Kardashian. His kids quickly realized that fame and fortune felt nice.
There's been a huge stoppage of that on the leftist front however, with labeling exercise as right wing. Which is as laughable as it is stupid. They just make guys look like girls and girls look like guys and call it liberating.
No one is asking them to look like models, but oddly, a lot seem to want to fly in the face of beauty and just be ugly intentionally for reasons I have not yet discovered. hypothetically, ugly on the inside so ugly on the outside too? Makes it easier to manipulate if you just say the right words and anger the easily influenced into doing your bidding? I don't know. There's probably a series of books of info out there on why people do the things they do.
They'll do this to themselves and then have the nerve to say attractive people have it easy and resent not being that. Fucking morons, why'd you go and beat yourself with the ugly stick, if you know pretty means easy mode life?
Girl 1 in your second section looks like a BBL.
Girl 2 is a bodybuilder, probably on abusive doses and on a bulk.
Girl 3 is your standard fitness model.
If women put effort into themselves they will develop an ass pretty quickly, now there is somewhat more competition so instead of just being skinny but not really toned they have to be into fitness. The ones from the 80s and 90s weren't particularly fit or toned and tend not to age well but had connections or sucked off the right producer.
It's at the gym and going running in tight pants. Even the kitchen one could easily be a fitness picture too (or an attempt at it given her attire, she's got a bit of a muffin top going on hanging over the tight pants).
Nah, that's fat. Especially the one in the green tights in the gym. Just look at the ratio of upper to lower leg. That's either a freak of nature or landwhale territory, but certainly not muscle.
Forget ratio, look for definition*. That's a massive quad. Freak.
I reverse image searched just now, looks like I was right,, looks like it's Kiri Sokolsky/kirifitness_
Sure, looking like she's in a bulk phase when that photo was taken as compared to her cuts, and remembering that a woman's body fat % should be a bit higher with less definition, but I am right.
What it is is fundamental to the morals of it. Is it something hard to attain and which requires work and time for a fitness enthusiast? Or is it something any casual sloth and gluttony fan can get doing nothing.
You are dodging the question, and I highly suspect it's on purpose because you don't want to admit the answer. Throwing up a bullshit smokescreen that is non sequitur to the issue. Women in the 90s and before were just as capable of putting hard work and time as fitness enthusiasts, and did so more than they do now. And the end result wasn't an ass that takes up 1/4 of her body mass. The result was a body like the women in the first set of images. So, ignoring your irrelevant point about how much work it takes to look like a white Shaquanda, women 20 years ago didn't want to. Now they do. Why?
And the moral quality of a white woman trying to look like what black men find attractive is quite simple. It's absolute filth and degeneracy.
All this is in quite the contrast to your OP
My question is, do you think it was deliberately pushed on us by the malicious powers that be, or was it just a natural shift, like as Americans got fatter in general, fatter women who at least kind of wear it better than a blob became the new beauty standard? A bit of both? Any other reasons or factors you might think contributed to it?
It looks like you're already certain of the answer.
I'm not the one dodging anything, it's you being disingenuous. I'm rejecting the premise that they (your examples at least) are fat arsed. It's something else entirely, fitness. They don't share much except size.
Why do I think it is? I don't know. The whole thicc black and big booty latina influence might play a part. So might social media accelerating shifts like that, what once took centuries or decades is now only a generation. But then why wouldn't they just eat their way to that 'ideal' then? It's a million times easier. That's why I think something else is going on.
Not if I can help it, twerking is quite unattractive. Immediate drop. No class, no thanks.
Muscle tissue doesn't do that. It's fat.
But they are fat women.
Ok bud, sure, whatever you want to believe. Because that's a bodybuilder woman while not on a cut with massive quads. And that's your problem, you're not willing to admit that you're wrong, very few people like that. It's gotta be quite niche.
So long as they actually answer the question that I asked instead of trying to waffle around because they don't want to say it out loud, or they have a vested interest in pretending the answer isn't what it is.
"so long as nobody actually disagrees with my conclusions or premises"
I will go out on a limb and make a guess. It is a guess, I'm not putting words in your mouth, but I'm pretty confident that I'm right. I would be willing to bet that the real crux here is that you find the women in the second set of photos more attractive, and of course you have a negative emotional reaction to being told that you find fat women attractive, so you're trying to talk around the point. You can like what you like. But they are fat women. Just because it's not fat everywhere, does not mean those giant tumors at the top of their legs are not composed of adipose tissue. They absolutely are. Ever seen one of those women 'twerk'? Muscle tissue doesn't do that. It's fat. You like fat chicks. Okay, it's not a big deal. You are probably either brown yourself, or fairly young and you grew up in a culture that was brainwashing you into liking brown culture without even realizing it was happening. And now here you are being attracted to the same stuff that black men are attracted to. If you aren't black, you're not supposed to be. So if you're not black and you are, something was done to you to make that the case. Just as it was done to the white women to make them want to be that. But, I will admit it is just a guess on my part.
"You're either black or with my psychoanalysis, I conclude that you are compromised"
Maybe, just maybe, it's that you is wrong. But you already discounted that possibility:
Are you genuinely retarded? You posted an unflattering picture of a bikini model on an abusive cycle and genuinely think it is fat? She has ab definition in most of her posts.
It’s niggification. That standard goes back much further in nigger culture. They have to have something to twerk and what not.
Do I think it’s deliberate in that there’s some puppet master doing this? Not really. It’s decades and decades of destroying the American black and worshipping them the whole way down. No one was doing this when black icons were Ella Fitzgerald and Nat King Cole, now that all is left is the lowest of the low niggers, you gotta follow whatever trend Lil Ho Fucker records on his latest ape sounds album.
You're right, but you're missing the role of social media.
Fashion prior to the mid 00's didn't have stuff like Instagram pushing normal female fad-following behavior into overdrive. I make no claim about how much of it is authentic vs astroturfed but as far as adoption speed, it's important to consider.
I guess the MySpace era occupies that gap between online quick fad spread and the DEI push.
I first started seeing this trend pop up in Skyrim modding, with the kinds of modded companions and bodyslide presets people were coming up with.
I just thought it was a bunch of weirdos with a strange fetish, possibly deriving from some popular branch of anime or something. But then after a few years I started seeing it randomly pop up here and there in more mainstream circles.
Based on any number of other "strange" trends that we've seen pop up or expand in just the last decade, I'd say you're probably right, that this has to be yet another weird semi-spontaneous amalgamation produced through social media.
Furry fandom alone is a classic example of how this stuff can spread like an actual contagion. Mankind was ill prepared for a globally accessible Internet.
Was born in 80 but the thing that woke me up the the hatred of beauty first was comic books and video games. When I noticed every female had to be unattractive and also noticed the double standard since males with rippling muscles was ok (look at the cover of any romance novel). Add to that the DEI obsession and the constant push for the trio of black/lgbt/girl power. I think part of the decline also ties into the ridiculous push to make it seem like the norm is men and women who don’t conform to traditional gender appearances
I’ve always seen them as either white or Japanese unless they were drawn to be black. Or darker brown skin could still be Asian.
Not the dude you're responding to, but it's always been obvious to me that most anime characters look most like white people. For as much as they can look like anyone with their humongous eyes and exaggerated features.
I'm implicitly aware that most of the time they're Japanese due to the setting and that this is just a choice made for stylistic purposes. I recall an episode of Log Horizon....in season 2 maybe(?) where the main character morphs himself to show what he looks like in real life. That is the closest attempt I've seen to portraying how actual Japanese people would look in anime form.
Thanks for the rundown. Yeah I've seen videos where Japanese people say they look Japanese but I've never really thought of the mechanism behind it.
I'd have loved if Smith trolled the fuck out of you and insisted they all look black to him.
lol. I don’t think to say that but it would be funny
This is a multifaceted problem.
On the one hand the women in the below examples are grotesquely obese. That is as you suggested a deliberate nudge of standards, towards lower body obesity that is extremely common in black women. It's a deliberately degenerated standard.
But then we have picture number 2 of the above examples. I know who a couple of those women are, namely Gellar and Lavigne. Those two are still curvy and feminine. The second picture has hips like a teenage boy.
That is also the same problem but in a different direction. Another degenerated standard of beauty, in this case something pushed by gays who tend towards predation of little boys.
Overall you're right, these things are not naturally occuring shifts in standards.
Picture #2 is Tara Reid, the lead female in American Pie, the defining teen sex comedy of the era.
Didn't have a TV at the time, didn't recognize her. Too skinny for my tastes.
First paragraph. I didn't disagree that it's not only disgusting, but also artificial. Not at any point did I say that it is presently going the other way. It has in the past, something my friends and I called "crackhead skinny".
I'm saying that it's fully possible to have degenerated standards of beauty in other directions.
There is a happy medium.
And again to answer your question about the present situation, it's completely artificial.
Not now, but it used to be so. See f.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_chic
Heroin chic reminds me of Mugatu's Derelict homeless fashion line from Zoolander
uhhhh I hate to break it to you, but that ain't even remotely close.
Not that it doesn't get worse.
Someone needs to tell the niggers that twerking is cultural appropriation of gorilla mating rituals.
I'd say a large part is the black fetish that gets pushed in media. Asses and hips like a bag of rotten potatoes are genetic in certain demographics.
I suggest you make this post in /pol/ on 4chan or on ConPro (https://communities.win/c/ConsumeProduct/), since the mod here has made it against the rules to discuss the decline of western culture with meaninful honesty, maturity, or brevity.
Your post appreciates the problem purely via the behavior of white women and you are allowed to say anything about them in that context because you are not accusing them of expressing any collective or personal agency for their actions (otherwise you may be suggesting a conspiracy among their identity group, which violates the mod's "rule 16").
Paradoxically, even though you cannot blame women for their own actions- since that could equate to an accusation of conspiracy among an identity group- you cannot blame anyone else, either, since it could be considered an accusation of conspiracy among a different identity group instead.
You can phrase it rather carefully to discuss things without accusing anyone of anything, by using what I call "zero custody language". In Zero Custody Language a person does not shoot a victim, the victim simply "becomes shot." To use Zero Custody Language in an example:
But it is easier to just find a free speech forum without a mod who is definitely not a direct participant in the conspiracy theories he has banned, and type in plain language there.
OP If it was deliberate you'd see more zendaya and rachel ziegler type stars as "attractive"
I think a simple thing that you're overlooking is the prevalence of tights, something which didn't exist in the 90's too ubiquitous today. Tight are essentially pushup bras for butts, and shape any fat there. Even a pushup bra can't make excess fat into extra boob. It shows the shape but not what's actually there so you can't tell if it's fat or legit glute muscle.
Of course it's all deliberate.
Watch the people who watch people. An attractive woman can turn heads. Women just under ideal bodyfat% will get second looks. Put them in the same clothes as the obesity crowd, the tights and tanktops, and they'll get third and fourth looks, outright staring. The higher bodyfat% women... Not as much. Some. But only some.
Beyond being "pushed" though (which I'm sure is happening on at least some levels), there's also the element of implied mental state. Buffy the Vampire Slayer up there in picture 1 clearly takes care of herself. Her body signals independence. Which, I mean, is kinda the point of Buffy. Well-off men would like a woman who can entertain herself, who while devoted, is also an active agent in life. The picture group 2 women, by contrast, signal that they need help. They're NOT independent, they're a submissive caste, presenting an animalistic mating ritual in hopes of being bred by a dominant example (I don't care if they think it's not that, that is exactly what that is in every other species of animal). Men want what they can't have: In the 80s, that meant a woman who could actually take care of herself and not need her husband to be the title's namesake and literally husband her life. In the 2020s, that means the reverse, a woman who needs some (or a lot of) husbandry, directing her life in a more positive direction.
Or in other words, when society was sane and in-control, men wanted good women so they could keep interacting with the sane society without worry. With an insane society, men want a woman they can fix, so there's at least something they can feel they have a positive impact on in society.
Proliferation of pornography. Given the average age of exposure to it is something like eight years old now, it shouldn't be surprising the over-exaggerated forms have become the new "beauty" standard.
Somewhere around the mid 90s, Brazilian style exercise made it's way over here.
The kind that tones and firms the thighs and butt. And it makes it look appealing, at least to some.
So a lot of women went and put in the work. It got a boost with news, media and social media as well as the kardashians. (who totally didn't get work done by the way, everyone just gains 30 pounds in their ass and tits overnight if they think about it hard enough.) Another butterfy effect/OJ bystander if you ask me. Their father was part of the dream team of lawyers, Robert Kardashian. His kids quickly realized that fame and fortune felt nice.
There's been a huge stoppage of that on the leftist front however, with labeling exercise as right wing. Which is as laughable as it is stupid. They just make guys look like girls and girls look like guys and call it liberating.
No one is asking them to look like models, but oddly, a lot seem to want to fly in the face of beauty and just be ugly intentionally for reasons I have not yet discovered. hypothetically, ugly on the inside so ugly on the outside too? Makes it easier to manipulate if you just say the right words and anger the easily influenced into doing your bidding? I don't know. There's probably a series of books of info out there on why people do the things they do.
They'll do this to themselves and then have the nerve to say attractive people have it easy and resent not being that. Fucking morons, why'd you go and beat yourself with the ugly stick, if you know pretty means easy mode life?
Girl 1 in your second section looks like a BBL. Girl 2 is a bodybuilder, probably on abusive doses and on a bulk. Girl 3 is your standard fitness model.
If women put effort into themselves they will develop an ass pretty quickly, now there is somewhat more competition so instead of just being skinny but not really toned they have to be into fitness. The ones from the 80s and 90s weren't particularly fit or toned and tend not to age well but had connections or sucked off the right producer.
Look at where 2 of those 3 pics are.
It's at the gym and going running in tight pants. Even the kitchen one could easily be a fitness picture too (or an attempt at it given her attire, she's got a bit of a muffin top going on hanging over the tight pants).
It's fit not fat.
Nah, that's fat. Especially the one in the green tights in the gym. Just look at the ratio of upper to lower leg. That's either a freak of nature or landwhale territory, but certainly not muscle.
Forget ratio, look for definition*. That's a massive quad. Freak.
I reverse image searched just now, looks like I was right,, looks like it's Kiri Sokolsky/kirifitness_
Sure, looking like she's in a bulk phase when that photo was taken as compared to her cuts, and remembering that a woman's body fat % should be a bit higher with less definition, but I am right.
It's ugly. Don't care if it's muscle or fat.
What it is is fundamental to the morals of it. Is it something hard to attain and which requires work and time for a fitness enthusiast? Or is it something any casual sloth and gluttony fan can get doing nothing.
All this is in quite the contrast to your OP
It looks like you're already certain of the answer.
I'm not the one dodging anything, it's you being disingenuous. I'm rejecting the premise that they (your examples at least) are fat arsed. It's something else entirely, fitness. They don't share much except size.
Why do I think it is? I don't know. The whole thicc black and big booty latina influence might play a part. So might social media accelerating shifts like that, what once took centuries or decades is now only a generation. But then why wouldn't they just eat their way to that 'ideal' then? It's a million times easier. That's why I think something else is going on.
Not if I can help it, twerking is quite unattractive. Immediate drop. No class, no thanks.
Ok bud, sure, whatever you want to believe. Because that's a bodybuilder woman while not on a cut with massive quads. And that's your problem, you're not willing to admit that you're wrong, very few people like that. It's gotta be quite niche.
"so long as nobody actually disagrees with my conclusions or premises"
"You're either black or with my psychoanalysis, I conclude that you are compromised"
Maybe, just maybe, it's that you is wrong. But you already discounted that possibility:
And that's the real crux here.
Are you genuinely retarded? You posted an unflattering picture of a bikini model on an abusive cycle and genuinely think it is fat? She has ab definition in most of her posts.
Comment Removed for: Rule 16 - identity attacks
Comment Removed for; Rule 16 - identity attacks
Asserting jewish racial conspiracy to... make eyeglasses ugly... ok
Oh you've done counter research? State your evidence.
You don't have any evidence for your assertion of the eternal jewish race war via eyeglasses.