I haven't seen a black american hired in tech in a decade. The last black american I saw in tech, they hired an indian manager, and the black guy was the first guy he fired.
Since then the only black guy I saw hired turned out to be from a suburb in africa.
My experience is the beneficiaries are people with well off parents from other countries.
Or white women.
Yes. Thomas Sowell and others have long gone over this, and it always hurts.
Basically what happens is that Affirmative Action negates the whole point of a meritocracy by putting less competent people into positions they are not able to preform in. So in each case, they underperform. That doesn't seem like it would be all that bad by itself, but it causes insane effects.
It's been particularly studied in regards to colleges, that the students who couldn't actually make the cut are put into programs they can't compete in. Even when they don't flunk out, tons of them still drop-out anyway. The vast majority of the ones who succeed are not the ones who rose to the occasion, but are exploiting every advantage they have.
The ones who succeed, are now entirely dependent on the affirmative action schemes to keep going, and keep piling up.
The ones who drop-out or fail out, end up being so demoralized that they never attempt any further higher education, and their children have a lesser chance of a higher education as well. Where, if they had simply gone to a less intense college, they would have never needed to drop out, and would have likely gone down the same route as everyone else who succeeds in (any) college education; and that could have been passed down to their kids.
But this doesn't stop at that point, the same problem hits the people who succeed. They are in full "Imposter Syndrome" their entire life. They are constantly insecure, because they are never actually competent enough to do the job, if it's being handed to them on a plater. Every promotion makes the situation worse, until they are totally unqualified for every position. This then becomes the basis of the competency crisis for society.
It's only utility is that it creates a politically dependent intelligentsia for the people that push it. Whom are evil racists.
Put it like this: what's going to generate better outcomes for the poor? Employing them, or giving them lottery winnings of a million dollars? Truth is: giving them a million dollars almost always keeps them poor. They lose everything within months or years.
Yes, this too. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it's part of the reason why the middle-class leftist whites act the way they do.
"Of course the blacks won't succeed on their own! Every single one I've personally "uplifted" failed for some reason!"
I'm sure there's studies. But logic dictates that nobody benefits, especially long term. Affirmative action and quotas are, inherently, a race to the bottom. And those that are supposed to 'benefit' will be seen as not adequate for whatever position they are in (even when they didn't get there through AA)
Sure...for the moment, I'm trying to stick to 1 topic personally.
I'm sure affirmative action / diversity screws over poor white people.
Does it even help poor black people from the US?
Their claim is basically "racism is ok because it helps groups with a history of oppression" but that doesn't even seem to be true.
How can it. There's two basic possibilities
You are put in a position that you are not qualified for.
You are qualified for the position but everyone thinks, you aren't
Either of these possibilities leads to the realization that you needn't even try to do your best. And when you stop trying doing your best, the only way is down. For you, for your children, for your community.
Just look at black people in america. There's never been so many programs to 'help' black youth to succeed, yet they are worse off in every metric that actually counts.
The few that aren't worse off, are considered white by their peers and the president of the United States.
To put it bluntly:
All of these programs are centered around the idea that you can spend your way out of this problem -- but its impossible.
I saw some bullshit article recently where increased welfare benefits in California found that the benefit to kids was like $48 for every $1 spent.
Instead of tearing apart their methodology (which I don't care about) -- I just wonder what the benefit of having two supportive parents and a supportive community around you is. Could you even put a number on it? I am sure it's magnitudes higher than 48:1, especially because it doesn't require any monetary spending whatsoever.
But that requires either side to address the root cause: a rotten fucking culture.
Like all things the left does, affirmative action is a mile wide, but paper thin. Take the USSC case here of unqualified black admits to Harvard, what happens to them?
I imagine that Harvard, like most universities, requires 1st year students to live on campus, so in a dorm. Likely on a food plan, too. For Harvard this is $79,450 annually, so here's how it goes:
They get there, instantly realize they are way over their head academically, miserably fail their first semester, get put on academic probation, miserably fail their second semester, get suspended for academic reasons, drop out, and all the while, they are taking out loans the whole time they are there. Because Harvard uses semesters instead of quarters, they rack up that entire annual tuition in loans, or even more if they manage to hang on one semester, loans they can't get out of except by dying. Bam, they are now in debt for what used to be a mortgage payment 30 years ago.
And this is all so a fucking anointed lefty can preen their fucking virtue and feel proud of themselves for helping blacks get into (but not graduate) college.
And they'll blame 'racism' for their failure, which ironically is correct but not in the way they mean it.
None of this is ever done for the benefit of the people they use as their mascots and in order to legitimize their rule. Blacks are victims of the scumbag elites just like everyone else is.
One of my high school friends actually recently graduated from Harvard, and well, that tuition thing is half true.
All the children of celebrities, politicians, other famous people, etc, their parents have to pay that tuition, all the other students are generally on some form of scholarship, such as my friend who’s the son of black immigrants and graduated saludictorian at my high school.
The best hope for most of these people is the "Gentleman C." The idea that if you got there they'll keep you around and just give you a C and shuffle you through as not to hurt their graduation rates.
Exactly...there's other stuff one would write pages on as well, but is black guy mark from the hood or white guy matt from trailer actually making it through harvard?
Seems like people making it through are going to be well off black americans who get in either way, or black people with well off parents from other countries.
Even if they pass, they got into all this debt which works out for, uh, the same people pushing for them to get in.
I'd say there's a lot more "RNG" in the chances than an Xcom combat roll. It might, occasionally, give non-incompetents a leg up, but the way it's been applied in the last 20 years has been nothing but overboard and wasteful.
Another thing to consider too is how it tries to sidestep and ignore the bigger issues that keep getting shoved under the rug or made worse through partisan (usually left leaning) games, namely, the state of public education in the US for the last 30+ years.
And I'm not just talking about the woketastic nonsense, but the absurdly bad strategies that have been put into effect to try to improve things, that only manage to make things even worse. IE, "No Child Left Behind", the endless cash flow to universities and colleges that seem to focus on everything except providing a useful and usable education, etc.
It looks like the cast of one of those shitty nu-tv shows. I mean the one I saw.
Females are overrepresented in applicants, but they don't discriminate against them to make the class half male.
I had a literal retard in the class below mine in law school
The law of unintended consequences cannot be denied.
It's been a while since I've had to work in tech(thankfully), but I've seen atleast one instance of an absolute fuckup of a computer technician who was - yeap, you guessed it - black.
She was, arguably, not even the bare-minimum competent, and I got called in to fix her mistakes a few times.
There we even occasions where my boss had me do her job for her in specific situations that were sensitive due to old-fashioned-political reasons, and they needed someone whom could actually do the fucking job.
This is where some of the really harmful stuff comes up - when people see this person, doing a job and fucking it up alot, the question becomes 'Why haven't we gotten rid of them?'
I'm sure alot of the more innocent ask this question with honest confusion, only to receive a thousand-yard stare from their elders before the matter is quietly dropped. No one wants to say it, but everyone knows the reason: They're black, and if they're gotten rid of for incompetency, they'll scream bloody murder about racism and everyone will believe them, because racists, or something.
Simple solution: Just don't deal with the problem to start with. So when it comes time to seriously hire people, or who you're going to work with, guess who's going to get quietly shoved aside because the juice isn't worth the squeeze?
And so it goes...
I’ve tried to explain this. I pissed off my cousin once because I said if I’m looking at applicants social media and they have photos of them at the Floyd “protests” or any sort of “I support the current thing” red flags I’m not hiring them. They are most likely going to be a problem child. Same goes for non-binary and so on.
Yeap.
I look at it this way. If I'm hiring someone, any random(white) sclub off the street - if he's reasonably okay, might have some rough edges around him, might need some time to get trained up, and that's fine. Cause if he's a complete and utter fuckup, I can kick him out and no one's going to bat an eye because no one cares. I can take the risk, because the risk overall is rather minimal.
Reasonably well put-together black guy - might not know his stuff, but looks to be trainable in his role. Alright - but what if he can't be trained? What if the mask slips, and he's abrasive toward other people? What if he refuses to learn? And if I have to get rid of him, what then? Is this going to blow up in my face with accusations of racism - or, even worse, I won't be able to get rid of him until I have undeniable proof to show others that, yes, he's a complete screwup that can't do his job. Sorry about the project that's on fire, that's just the price you pay to prove a point. High risk, medium-ish reward.
I'll take the guy whom I can throw out on his ass any day of the week versus the other guy who might devolve into a screaming clusterfuck if he turns out to be useless.
Larry Elder once said that when he sees an old white lady clutching her purse when she sees him, he doesn’t get mad at her, he gets mad at the black thugs who have given him a bad name. Same principle applies here I think. You could have a great black candidate who isn’t someone who whines about race but due to the last few lousy black employees his resume will be quietly pushed to the side.
If an applicant mentions their race (any race) in a cover letter or on their resume, it's an automatic rejection from me.
Definitely a red flag. Bringing it up without being asked. If I never hear about race again I’ll be very happy
You're asking the right questions but this is what normies and right wingers alike don't understand about these sorts of initiatives because I'm trying to tackle the politicised LGBT movement myself and the mentality around that. It's not about results, it's about virtue signalling and people making themselves feel good. They don't care whether or not the policy they introduce succeeds they're just in the very echo chamber they accuse everybody else of being in and want to talk to each other about how amazing they are through their activism.
I only knew one black guy who went to harvard. His parents were millionaires from Africa as you suggest.
Harvard’s racism isn’t really helping the working class black kids.
Rich foreign black students are a double whammy. Check so many boxes about diversity and inclusion yet pay the whole bill. Oh look we graduated someone who speaks English as a foreign language.
There are two separate questions:
Do any individuals who are 'black Americans' benefit from AA - assuming for a moment that AA is a net benefit to the individual who gets it.
More importantly, is AA good for blacks in general, because as justification is cited that blacks lag behind other groups.
The former must be true, although they disproportionately do not benefit. It is mostly immigrants from West India and Africa who benefit, because they do much better than native American blacks, and AA is a benefit to people at the top of the group.
The second question is easier to answer: absolutely not. A very small group of middle- and upper class blacks get sinecures at the expense of whites and Asians. This at the cost of blacks everywhere being the bottom of the stack. If there is a 1 black who qualifies for a given MIT class, but they admit 10, the difference is that it is not one black who is just as good as the others, but at least nine who are incompetent. The worst performers will be the blacks. And obviously, they're not going to attribute the pride of their life, MIT admission, to their skin color, they will claim they had to work twice as hard to get where they are. Their poor performance they will have to blame on 'racism'. It's a disaster all-around.
It's not doing anything to promote income quartile transitions. The thing that they always claim to want.
The only time affirmative action benefits anyone is when there is an active, real discrimination against non-whites. That may have been the case 50 or 60 years ago, but today no one would dare be discriminatory in a way that could be linked to them publicly, so I doubt that it does much anymore.