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48
Lying Matt Walsh. Tries to lies about both the actual ethnicity of Magnus Hirschfeld and also tries to compare him to a group of people that had been against him. (media.communities.win)
posted 2 years ago by herg 2 years ago by herg +48 / -0
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Comments (123)
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▲ 36 ▼
– ArtemisFoul 36 points 2 years ago +36 / -0

Since nobody so far bothered linking the whole thread, even though it's right near the top of Walsh's timeline: https://nitter.freedit.eu/MattWalshBlog/status/1672035605369487362#m

Yeah, it sure as shit sounds like he's trying to lump Jewish communist Hirschfeld into one pot with German Nazis. Well, that's The Daily Wire for you.

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▲ 11 ▼
– Gizortnik 11 points 2 years ago +11 / -0

No, it sounds like he's lumping in a "lunatic sexologist" with other "lunatic sexologists":

The trans agenda was invented by pedophilic psychologists, degenerate quacks, lunatic sexologists, literal Nazi scientists, and other assorted deviants.

Magnus Hirschfeld. Another German sexologist.

The only thing that's got you up in arms is the last sentence which is still explicitly true. National Socialists supported Eugenics. This is relevant to the very next tweet.

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▲ 9 ▼
– Kienan 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

The only thing that's got you up in arms is the last sentence which is still explicitly true.

Yeah, but it's irrelevant. You'd rightfully call this out if the context was different. This is CNN-level stuff.

National Socialists supported Eugenics.

And Elon Musk owns Starlink, Snopes finds. (Which was fucking hilarious, and I hope immediately becomes a meme. I'll do my part.)

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▲ 3 ▼
– lapalapa 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

You'd rightfully call this out if the context was different.

Context matters.

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▲ 10 ▼
– Kienan 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0

Yeah, but as the poster above said, "it sure as shit sounds like he's trying to lump Jewish communist Hirschfeld into one pot with German Nazis."

That deserves to be called out. Where's the context? It's a silly link to try to make, and like I said, sounds like some CNN shit.

It's a non-sequitur and a smear. And, as someone else pointed out, plenty of people were into eugenics at the time, it wasn't just a "Nazi thing."

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▲ 3 ▼
– lapalapa 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Where's the context?

The context is the entire thread linked above.

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▲ 2 ▼
– Gizortnik 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Yeah, but it's irrelevant. You'd rightfully call this out if the context was different.

It literally leads into the next tweet, in which he describes a Nazi scientist.

And Elon Musk owns Starlink, Snopes finds.

The Nuremburg Laws were based off of the policies being espoused by Progressive Eugenicists in the US. There's a 1:1 line of Eugenics to the extermination policies of National Socialists.

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▲ 29 ▼
– herg [S] 29 points 2 years ago +29 / -0

regardless of what you think about the groups in question , it shows a real lack of integrity to lie in this manner.

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▲ 31 ▼
– Assassin47 31 points 2 years ago +31 / -0

Also eugenics was a big thing with elites all over the world at the time. Not strictly associated with either Germans, Nazis or sex perverts.

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▲ 27 ▼
– Telia 27 points 2 years ago +27 / -0

And personally i think eugenics is better than the dysgenics that we have now actually.

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▲ 15 ▼
– deleted 15 points 2 years ago +15 / -0
▲ 10 ▼
– FutaCumDiet 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0

Much in the same way that the left is turning on JK for having one wrong opinion, I would caution people from rallying behind someone for having one right opinion.

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▲ 8 ▼
– Gizortnik 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

The trans agenda was invented by pedophilic psychologists, degenerate quacks, lunatic sexologists, literal Nazi scientists, and other assorted deviants.

That's the leading statement. He never said Herschfeld was a Nazi scientist.

In fact, what he said is that Erwin Gohrbandt was the Nazi scientist:

Erwin Gohrbandt. A leading scientist in Nazi Germany who performed one of the first "sex reassignment" surgeries. He helped design human experiments that were carried out on prisoners at Dachau. In one experiment, victims were submerged in ice cold water to study the effects of hypothermia. Many died

The structure of his tweet is the same for each of the names he listed. Yet, you didn't claim that he said John Money was a Nazi. This is because Walsh is qualifying Hirschfeld as a "Lunatic Sexologist", not a Nazi Scientist.

If anyone's being dishonest here, it's you.

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▲ 13 ▼
– Hoodie_Fren 13 points 2 years ago +13 / -0

You seem really keen on protecting jews from defamation from these evil goyim.

Make you could get together with other other Jews and create like a league?

Maybe call it Counter Defamation League? I don't know, the name might need some work.

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▲ 2 ▼
– Gizortnik 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

You're Leftists. Innocent people deserve to be defended against your aggression. Particularly any whites that are stupid enough to get pulled in with your propaganda.

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▲ 13 ▼
– herg [S] 13 points 2 years ago +13 / -0

Hey what do you think of this? https://archive.is/b3BzS

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▲ 2 ▼
– Gizortnik 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Modern Leftist concepts can't be back-dated to the bronze age.

Are you going to tell me that Western Society has always supported Transgenderism and Queer Theory because the Greeks understood the concept of a "Hermaphrodite", or because they were Pederasts?

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▲ 1 ▼
– deleted 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0
▲ 1 ▼
– deleted 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0
▲ 5 ▼
– OldBullLee 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

What's the lie?

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▲ 12 ▼
– SuurSuomi39_II 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

That Hirschfeld was German, he was just another jewish chameleon, they can't be Germans.

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▲ 2 ▼
– lapalapa 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

He was born in what was essentially Germany back then. He was German. That doesn't stop him from fitting into other categories. It's not factually wrong.

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▲ 10 ▼
– deleted 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0
▲ 2 ▼
– DomitiusOfMassilia [M] 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Comment Removed for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Kind of against a litany of peoples in this one.

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▲ 2 ▼
– lapalapa 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

consider themselves as Germans

Who cares who considers what. He was German. That's a fact.

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▲ 8 ▼
– Telia 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

No he's not. And you're a leftist if you think so, only leftists would think an Arab is a German just because of some piece of government paper, and the same goes for jews. A man cannot be a woman, a Arab cannot be a German, a jew cannot be a German

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▲ 3 ▼
– lapalapa 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Being German is a nationality. You're being too tribalistic.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 19 ▼
– FutaCumDiet 19 points 2 years ago +19 / -0

Because he's owned by a Jew.

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▲ 15 ▼
– Sneak_King 15 points 2 years ago +15 / -0

Gotta feel kinda bad for deka, Giz, et. al. Without their dedicated spergette, imp, there's no one to tank the downvotes.

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▲ 12 ▼
– GhostBond 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

People are trying to say that the Nazi's didn't like Magnus Hirshfeld and burned his clinic and records. This seems to be true.

But you see the US go the same way as the Weimar Republic - widespread moral degeneracy was a big thing for germans. Economic Degeneracy as well.

When is one is both broke and surrounded by people touting immoral things as "moral", a leader with a clear message and promises to clean things up is far more appealling then during good times.

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▲ 11 ▼
– deeplydisturbed1 11 points 2 years ago +11 / -0

Hey Mr Walsh:

We can agree on one thing - the Ashkenazis were degenerates. And the Nationalist Socialists hated them for it.

Less than four months after the Nazis took power, Hirschfeld's Institute was sacked. On the morning of 6 May, a group of university students belonging to the National Socialist Student League stormed the institution, shouting "Brenne Hirschfeld!" ('Burn Hirschfeld!')

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Hirschfeld#Later_life_and_exile

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▲ 9 ▼
– SamuelColt 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

Imagine being unable to grasp that there were German Jews.

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▲ 21 ▼
– Telia 21 points 2 years ago +21 / -0

No such thing as "German jews" just like there is no such thing as "German Arabs". Just because you live in the country doesnt mean you are German .

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▲ 6 ▼
– dekachin 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

No, but citizenship does.

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▲ 19 ▼
– Telia 19 points 2 years ago +19 / -0

a piece of paper from the government does not make you a German

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▲ 5 ▼
– dekachin 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

it literally does. you don't have to accept the reality, but that's how the law works.

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▲ 18 ▼
– Telia 18 points 2 years ago +18 / -0

Nope. Go away globalist JIDF

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▲ 3 ▼
– OldBullLee 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Why would a "globalist" acknowledge citizenship at all?

What's all this "blood and soil" bullshit, anyway? And why are so many here so vehemently anti-Jewish? I mean, who gives a shit if someone's Jewish or not?

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▲ 4 ▼
– Gizortnik 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

It's not an inability to grasp it. It's a refusal.

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▲ 14 ▼
– deleted 14 points 2 years ago +14 / -0
▲ 5 ▼
– Gizortnik 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

Lie to yourself all you want, but jews assimilated into Germany centuries earlier.

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▲ 10 ▼
– FutaCumDiet 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0

Yeah, that's why the Weimar Republic was such a success. /s

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▲ 1 ▼
– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Oh, the Weimar Republic is 400 years old is it?

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▲ 1 ▼
– DomitiusOfMassilia [M] 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Comment Reported for : Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Comment Removed for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Again: the concept of a race-wide cabal for racial dominance violates the rule.

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▲ 8 ▼
– subbookkeeper 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

is there any follow up tweets to this? Because that tweet in isolation doesn't match the headline.

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▲ 28 ▼
– Telia 28 points 2 years ago +28 / -0

Matt Walsh is trying to claim that Magnus Hirschfeld was German whilst neglecting to mention he was actually jewish, and tries to compare him to the nazis when the nazis hated Magnus .

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▲ 15 ▼
– SamuelColt 15 points 2 years ago +15 / -0

He was German. And Jewish. Imagine that.

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▲ 34 ▼
– Telia 34 points 2 years ago +34 / -0

i wouldnt call Arab people living in Germany as "German" neither would i call a jewish person living in Germany as "German"

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▲ 22 ▼
– Hullohoomans 22 points 2 years ago +22 / -0

You have to remember that there are retards who still think birthright citizenship is perfectly normal and valid.

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▲ 9 ▼
– Gizortnik 9 points 2 years ago +9 / -0

Except most of the jews in Germany had long since integrated and considered themselves to be German anyway.

That is why Hitler's propaganda had to mainly show Polish and orthodox jews that were recent immigrants, and claim that all jews, including German jews, were all in a secret cabal together.

You wouldn't need to be screaming about noses and making people wear stars to identify them, if they weren't already fully integrated into society.

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▲ 22 ▼
– Telia 22 points 2 years ago +22 / -0

they were definitely not integrated in to German society lmao . They moved around Europe for thousands of years without ever integrating and always remaining as jews

Either way they still wouldnt have been German.

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▲ 4 ▼
– Gizortnik 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

"The jews in Vienna weren't integrated into Germany!" is a desperate claim. Other jews in other places doesn't mean that those jews weren't integrated.

Jews were not expelled from every German city, and jews had long settled into many cities in Germany before and after unification, whether you like it or not. Protestants and Catholics had also long since integrated into Germany after having entire cities burned to the ground, and populations violently displaced or starved after the 30 Years War. Both were integrated Germans, so were jews.

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▲ 19 ▼
– Telia 19 points 2 years ago +19 / -0

Most of Europe was "anti semitic" for most of history. I could either believe what my European ancestors said about jews or i can believe what jews said about my European ancestors. . Im more inclined to believe what my European ancestors said.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 12 ▼
– censorthisss 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

Jews always consider themselves Jewish.

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▲ 1 ▼
– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

And Muslims consider themselves Islamic. This is like saying, "No muslim would consider himself an arab!"

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▲ 7 ▼
– deleted 7 points 2 years ago +7 / -0
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– DomitiusOfMassilia [M] 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Comment Removed for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Again, "Jewish racial cabal tried to kill Germany and Hitler was a good boy who dindu nuffin" is still a violation of Rule 16.

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▲ 2 ▼
– SuurSuomi39_II 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Whether I disagree or agree with that sentiment, those are your words since I didn't even imply that in my comment, quite funny how you drew that conclusion eh? It's almost like... nevermind.

Honestly I don't know what's more retarded, you giving me a 2 day ban over nothing, or the fact that some retard is unironically reporting comments on a double digit user forum.

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▲ 1 ▼
– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

You even have orthodox jewish rabbis in Israel saying this

You have the same Orthodox rabbi that you always call up100% of the time who already feeds in your line that jews deserved to be exterminated. No shit, that one rabbi feeds into your belfies that Hitler did nothing wrong.

Now, as for the jews living in Germany at the time, the communist ones were communist, and the orthodox ones weren't engaging in degeneracy, nor did the communists want them in academia. But this hurts your narrative about a racial cabal that's out to get you.

More often than not, the last name was a giveaway of a jew, though there is also jewish physiognomy which was much easier to notice 100 years ago in Germany when the country was predominantly, Germans.

Is that why the Nazis had to have courses in it? You have to train people to see the difference and publicly identify them because there were so many integrated jews. Even the man who wrote the Nuremburg Laws knew how integrated the jews were. That was the whole point.

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▲ 5 ▼
– JuanTitor 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

If his family lived there for potentially hundreds of years and he only spoke European languages, then yes, I would consider him German.

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▲ 23 ▼
– Telia 23 points 2 years ago +23 / -0

No. No matter how long Arabs live in Germany they will never be German. Likewise for jews. Soil does not change your race.

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▲ 8 ▼
– dekachin 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

The moment an Arab becomes naturalized to German citizenship & can get a German passport, he is German.

Seethe all you want about it, it's an established fact.

Rishi Sunak is the prime minister of the UK. He is obviously british, even though he is not white.

Nobody outside this board full of wack jobs would upvote your "name the jew" nonsense. You don't live in reality.

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▲ 19 ▼
– Telia 19 points 2 years ago +19 / -0

He would not be German you globalist retard. A piece of paper from the government does not make you a German. But even if you want to call him a German it would be extremely dishonest to not mention that the terrorist was also an arab muslim. Just like its completely dishonest to not mention Magnus is a jew and to pretend he was just a German and nothing else

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 11 ▼
– SuurSuomi39_II 11 points 2 years ago +11 / -0

From your ''our democracy'' and Ukraine shilling, this generic globalist talking point is a new height of retardation for you, impressive as you've already set the bar incredibly high to begin with.

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 10 ▼
– deleted 10 points 2 years ago +10 / -0
▲ 21 ▼
– ArtemisFoul 21 points 2 years ago +21 / -0

The Jewish people consider themselves Jewish first and foremost and have no ties to their birthplaces, unless it's Israel. That's how they identify, and by claiming otherwise you're denying their lived experience, which is disgustingly antisemitic speech that will surely lead to another Shoah. Do better.

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▲ 6 ▼
– Gizortnik 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

Except that's a lie, and we can look at the statements from German jews at the time. This is why they called themselves "Germans of the mosaic faith".

Not everyone is a die-hard racialist like yourself.

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▲ 17 ▼
– ArtemisFoul 17 points 2 years ago +17 / -0

Are you suggesting that a Hebrew, one of the chosen tribe, would lie to the goyim cattle for personal gain? Oy gevalt! Fellow white people, help me report this Nazi scum!

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▲ 5 ▼
– redman012 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

Imagine this: It’s not a lie.

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▲ 15 ▼
– ArtemisFoul 15 points 2 years ago +15 / -0

The imagining would be way easier if I haven't seen literally thousands of Jews on the internet go full "fellow white people, we must let hordes of illiterate goatfuckers into our nations", only to whip out the "I'm not white, I'm jewish" card when advantageous.

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▲ 3 ▼
– Gizortnik 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

No, I'm suggesting that jews integrate whether you like it or not.

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▲ 18 ▼
– ArtemisFoul 18 points 2 years ago +18 / -0

You can suggest the sky is green, too, but I've seen what I've seen, and if I'm deciding whether to trust some dude on the internet who I've never met or my own lying eyes, well, that's a pretty easy decision, isn't it?

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... continue reading thread?
▲ 6 ▼
– dekachin 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

You can be German by nationality - making you German - regardless of your ethnicity.

Nothing Walsh said was wrong & "naming the jew" doesn't fly with normies.

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▲ 19 ▼
– Telia 19 points 2 years ago +19 / -0

Imagine if you heard about a terrorist attack in Germany and the media said "the terrorist was a German" just because he had German citizenship, when in reality the terrorist was a Muslim Arab.

That is the level of dishonesty you are talking about when you call this guy a German without mentioning he is a jew.

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▲ 8 ▼
– dekachin 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

Imagine if you heard a terrorist attack in Germany and the media said "the terrorist was a German" just because he had German citizenship

That would be an accurate & true statement, & important information since it would distinguish him from a foreigner who just went to Germany for the attack.

Nationality & ethnicity are different things.

And they don't even overlap that much anymore since all the white countries let themselves get flooded by nonwhites.

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▲ 21 ▼
– Telia 21 points 2 years ago +21 / -0

yeah Im not going to bother arguing with a globalist JIDF anymore

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▲ 11 ▼
– deleted 11 points 2 years ago +11 / -0
▲ 12 ▼
– Telia 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

And be honest about what this is Matt Walsh works for the Daily Wire, who are jewish thats why he wont name the jew and thats why he lies about nazis

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▲ 4 ▼
– dekachin 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0
  1. 1 out of 3 owners of DW is a jew.

  2. No, nobody in mainstream discourse "names the jew" because it's not within the overton window to do so & you'd catch shit for being antisemetic.

Matt Walsh should not be naming the jew if he worked for Newsmax or anywhere else. It's only on anonymous fringe boards like this where people rail against the jews all day.

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▲ 13 ▼
– Telia 13 points 2 years ago +13 / -0

Daily Wire are either jews, relatives of jews, or shabbos goys. It makes no difference. They are pro zionist either way.

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▲ 6 ▼
– Sneak_King 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

Please define "nationality."

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▲ 3 ▼
– Gizortnik 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

Except jews who'd already lived in Germany for centuries are ethnically German.

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▲ 16 ▼
– Telia 16 points 2 years ago +16 / -0

no they werent

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▲ 3 ▼
– Gizortnik 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

They were. Cry.

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▲ 16 ▼
– Telia 16 points 2 years ago +16 / -0

only the nationalists of a race get to decide if you are one of them or not. If Swedish nationalists dont think you are Swedish then you are not Swedish, if a British nationalists dont think you are British you are not British, if German nationalists dont think you are German then you are not German.

Trying to claim a jew is a German is like trying to claim a man is a woman. Its a racial version of transgenderism.

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▲ 1 ▼
– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

only the nationalists of a race get to decide if you are one of them or not. ... Trying to claim a jew is a German is like trying to claim a man is a woman.

LOL Imagine being so fucking stupid you think political activist definitions are the only legitimate ones!

You guys really are Leftists.

  • "Larry Elder isn't black because I said so, uhuru!"
  • "Transwomen are women because Feminism is inclusive!"
  • "We are good Islamists because we killed all the Non-Muslims because they were Shia muslims and that makes them apostates."
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▲ 8 ▼
– deleted 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0
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– DomitiusOfMassilia [M] 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

Comment Reported for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Comment Removed for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

We both know you're not talking about just Israel as a country, you're accusing jews of being subversives and liars that are out to kill the world.

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▲ 1 ▼
– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

"Everyone I don't like is a jew!"

Cry idiot.

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– SR388-SAX 8 points 2 years ago +8 / -0

Were they German or were they Jewish-Germans? Because there's a big difference between the two.

I can get along with just about anybody that would describe themselves as an American. But people who describe themselves as a hyphenated American frequently hate me for who I am.

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▲ 1 ▼
– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

That's the entire point of the hyphen in the first place.

And no, they didn't consider themselves outside of German. That's why they called themselves "Germans of the Mosaic faith". Being German, particularly in the 1800's was something to be proud of by most Germans.

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– dekachin 6 points 2 years ago +6 / -0

In case you're wondering what OP is on about:

Magnus Hirschfeld was German. 1st line of his wiki is: "Magnus Hirschfeld (14 May 1868 – 14 May 1935) was a German physician and sexologist."

But, of course:

Hirschfeld was born in Kolberg in Pomerania (since 1945 Kołobrzeg in Poland),[5] in an Ashkenazi Jewish family

So this is a stormfag angry that the jew has not been named.

Matt Walsh didn't say anything about ethnicity, German was his nationality. He was born & raised in Germany.

Many, many jews were German.

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– deleted 22 points 2 years ago +22 / -0
▲ 2 ▼
– OldBullLee 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

"I watched Superman fly away/You've got a busy day today/Go save the world/ I'll be around" -- Taylor Swift

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– DomitiusOfMassilia [M] 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Comment Reported for: Rule 12 - Intentional Falsehoods

Comment Removed for: Rule 16 - Identity Attacks

Literally Joseph Gobbels

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▲ 5 ▼
– MLGS 5 points 2 years ago +5 / -0

Arguing about whether a white guy named Magnus born in Prussia with a father named Hermann in the 1800s counts as a German is first period talk while you're two goals down in a shootout.

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– Telia 20 points 2 years ago +20 / -0

jews arent White

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▲ 4 ▼
– Gizortnik 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

Jews are a religion.

It's like saying "Muslims aren't Asian". Yeah, there's plenty that are.

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▲ 17 ▼
– Telia 17 points 2 years ago +17 / -0

they're not just a religion, Israel has genetic tests for citizenship

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▲ 3 ▼
– Gizortnik 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

This doesn't cover the entire process of conversion. Genetic testing doesn't trace a Jew Gene. It helps identify who you were married to.

It wouldn't even work in the first place since the religion specifically allows the intermarriage of recent converts into the population, as well as non-jews marrying into the population (from one specific sex), destroying the ability to have a purely isolated genetic code.

This is because Judaism was founded by Bronze Age people who didn't know anything about genetics.

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– Telia 16 points 2 years ago +16 / -0

yeah no.

Atheist jews exist, and you are not going to convince anyone that jews arent a race when they have DNA tests over it and behave as a race

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– Gizortnik 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

"Athiest jews" are like "Libertarian Socialists". They don't exist. It's just a Leftist subversive.

And again, you're ignorant about how conversion works. You can't do a "jew gene test". That's never been how genetics works, nor does it work with the jewish religion. All it can do is verify who you are and who your parents are.

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– MLGS 3 points 2 years ago +3 / -0

105 IQ reply.

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– at-st 4 points 2 years ago +4 / -0

Him not pushing your "joos are all litcherally evil because some of them are powerful and bad" thinking isn't him lying. Every other race is just as bad if you only focus on the most powerful 1% of them.

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– WitchHunterSiegfried 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

An enemy of the Reich is compared to them, god I hate this shit, jews love to project their issues onto others (especially the Reich)

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– deleted 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0
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– deleted 12 points 2 years ago +12 / -0

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