Seriously, we condemned Russia for invading Ukraine and have probably acknowledged that they most likely killed civilians while trying to bombard enemy positions, while also condemning Ukraine for lying for propaganda purposes, persecuting dissidents and political rivals, and using barrier troops to force men to fight instead of letting them flee the corrupt shithole.
Meanwhile, the regressive left and globalist conspirators aggressively and blindly defended Ukraine while intensifying the Russia bashing to the point where regressive leftist russophobia was documented to have escalated.
In all honesty, fuck everyone involved in this retarded conflict that could have been avoided with better diplomacy.
The only rational assessment anybody can make of the Ukraine situation is to admit that nobody has any idea what's going on on the ground, and that includes everyone who's actually there. That's the nature of war. Whatever anyone thinks of Russia's reasons for invading, or the role the West played in provoking them into it, none of that really matters now. I just don't want it spreading.
Absolutely. This doesn't stop the theorizing and speculation, though, as many of the following comments illustrate.
The worst thing about the war from my perspective is the unwillingness of the US to broker a peace negotiation. Nobody else is stepping in to do it either, probably under pressure from the US to stay out.
Why? My suspicion is that our deep state wants the longest possible war in order for US munitions corporations to sell the largest amount of weapons to the Ukrainians. How many billions have we shelled out to them already?
Covid and Ukraine got many spitting out that red pill
It's really worrisome. It's Gell-Mann amnesia, to be sure, but... how can you realize that Person X from Company Z is lying their ass off... but then turn around and wave an article from Person Y and go "SEE! SEE! THE NEWS ISN'T LYING TO US!"
Well that tends to happen when you do a Hamas and set up bases in schools and launch missles from populated areas.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
And this is what happens when you don't have any troops in an isolated civilian shelter that you announce as such and even have it marked with huge signs reading "CHILDREN": https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur50/5713/2022/en/
And this is what happens when you don't defend these populated areas and allow the orcs to take them and have their way with the humans: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/04/ukraine-russian-forces-extrajudicially-executing-civilians-in-apparent-war-crimes-new-testimony/
You're citing Amnesty. Amnesty was condemning Ukraine for using civilians as human shields a while back, which of course elicited howls of outrage from the "GAE allies can do no wrong" crowd.
I'm citing Amnesty in spose to the poster citing Amnesty, to show what happens when the civilian areas are not being defended and are left to (no) mercy of the invaders.
Hadn't read it. That said, it is interesting that criticism of GAE allies is Very Bad and of opponents if Very Good.
Speak like a normal fucking human being.
I did.
Normal people don't call the US the Global American Empire, especially not by that acronym.
The three links from above, so you could read before commenting for once:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/ (opening, not mine)
Fragment:
And two mine, providing the context - what happens to the undefended areas:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur50/5713/2022/en/
(A deliberate massacre of children with an airstrike.)
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/04/ukraine-russian-forces-extrajudicially-executing-civilians-in-apparent-war-crimes-new-testimony/
There's lots more of course.
There are three relevant countries which have not signed the ban on cluster munitions. Russia, Ukraine, and the United States.
They can't lawfully attack "indiscriminately", but they can lawfully attack the military objective even if that means collateral damage to civilians.
I agree.
But it's worse than a crime, it's a blunder. If you were going to kill people indiscriminately, it would be smart to do it in a place where the people aren't in large part Russians / Russian speakers, like Lwow. Reducing Mariupol seems counterproductive, whether or not it was justified under ius in bello.
But what do I know? Putin's probably smarter than I am, and knows what he's doing.
If only there had been a way to avoid this way, like not provoking Russia for 30 years straight.
It's not any "blunder", it was a deliberate mass murder.
As deliberate as them shooting people in the back of the head and leaving their bodies in houses and streets, or burying them in shallow mass graves, which they also do.
The very same thing, just from the air.
And not an isolated incident.
You for some bizarre reason think they care about "Russians / Russian speakers", but Russia is now so hated in Kharkiv for a reason.
It's like you don't remember what they have done to the Russians in Grozny. Or maybe you just don't know.
At the end of 1994, Grozny was still (and perhaps rather again, as most of the Chechens have taken shelter in the countryside with their families) majority Russian.
There are probably no longer any Russians in Grozny. (Something like a decade ago there were still less than 100.)
Do you know what happened there?
It's not a fucking secret.
And speaking of Grozny, ironically, this photo, here: https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-media-propaganda-ukraine-conflict-chechnya/26660126.html
They don't even say it in the article, but they were the Russian civilians in this photo, killed by the Russian state. This is why the place was in the Orthodox cemetery.
It was in March, this related video is from April, same subject: http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/youtube/cce7108220fc9561adecb9a183446123
That's a whole lot of "blunder". Nowadays they didn't even count in Mariupol at all.
And now (in 2014) the absolutely shameless Russian propaganda, inclduing Rassiya 1 no less (about whom you told me you somehow didn't know anything, remember?), uses the imagery of their own crimes as fake Ukrainian crimes.
Nothing can be more disgusting.
You believe what they tell you. The "shelling of Donbass". Why are you choosing to be retarded? Just so be an anti-Westeen contrarian, siding with the worst bunch. With cynical mass murderers of their own people.
Fuck everyone involved, but if it weakens the GAE, it's good for me.
Firstly, is this sub even 'Dissident Right'? I never noticed just how sanitized and tame it actually is—full of liberetardianism, "Nazis bad", etc.—until I started on Scored. Even the Reddit sub, to which I was first introduced in late 2019, seemed less tame than what I'm seeing here. I remember getting a few hundred upvotes on one post for a comment (which I can't remember nor see on my old profile) that I think would seem out of place over here.
Secondly, pro-Ukraine shitheels (99.9% of them being some form of pro-liberal, the remainder being WNs willing to downplay the liberal Zelensky regime in their support of Azov) who believed the Ghost of Kiev nonsense, the 'X number of Russian generals have been killed' (only for several of them to later reappear) nonsense, and all of the other misinformation coming out of the same Western media that also tells you the Covaxes are totally great, can be found on subs like these.
Moreover, notice that this same Western media has almost completely avoided talking about how bad things are for foreign fighters. Many of them have since returned to their places of origin, and practically none of whom have anything positive to say about going there. Instead, they simply describe it with words like 'meat grinder'. When was the last time we heard of the losers on that subreddit composed of people who wanted to go there?
That's right. Over 100 of them were blown up because some Redditard posted a video taken at the location to the subreddit... which had the location's co-ordinates embedded in the metadata. A missile promptly pulverized those soyboys. Indeed, even after that media blackout, notice that the foreign volunteers still completely dried up, because mah Ukrainian freedumb isn't really worth dying for in a missile strike?
My favorite was the 'General Pavel' hoax.
They literally spread the story that an obese man in a uniform was a 'general' who was called up because Azov heroes had killed so many real Russian generals.
Insofar as the Americans have helped the Kiev regime kill Russian generals, I suspect there will be a great amount of blowback for that. If Mark White Rage Milley wasn't doing America a great amount of harm, I'd bet on him being Russia's first target. Same for Moskva. I bet we haven't heard the end of it.
The Moskva story doesn't add up on so many different levels. So a Russian cruiser, that had just come out of an overhaul designed to upgrade it to deal with any modern anti-ship missile... gets taken out by a couple of knockoff Harpoons? And the official Ukranian response is essentially "lol, we distracted them with a drone!"
... riiiight.
The US has already bragged about helping Ukraine sink it.
That's why I think that there will be retaliation.
Yeah, at the very least, there's going to be an effort to keep any American aircraft out of the area, which isn't going to go well.
And now, one of the children of a Russian cabinet official is dead due to a car bomb intended for her father. "This is going to get out of hand, this is going to get out of hand, and we will be lucky to live through it..."
Im the "It's all so tiresome" guy with the whole thing now. My thoughts on UKR v. RUS are the same as they are as with Israel v. Palestine. They can shoot rockets at each other till the cows come home. I just don't care at this point. 🤷
This is not exactly uncommon.
That said, there is plenty of rationality on the dissident left as well. Glenn Greenwald, Michael Tracey, Jimmy Dore, etc.
Everyone else seems to go hard on the Current Thing.
Uh, those are obviously all Far Right Extremists, haven't you heard?
It reminds me of the invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan
And like clockwork, the delusional "Russia bad, everybody that won't say 'Russia bad' bad, Ukraine perfect and never made any mistakes!" clowns are out in force.
I'll say it again slowly to see if it sinks in for them, but I don't expect it to: Russia is a corrupt shithole. Ukraine is a corrupt shithole. I don't care what they do to each other. It sucks that civilians are caught up in it, but that's just life, and it's not my responsibility to fix it, and I'm annoyed that my fucking tax dollars are being wasted on it.
Russia is doing this too, and more prevalent. Navalny just celebrated his 2 years anniversary after the Russian government poisoned him. Russia just accused Ukraine of poisoning Russian soldiers with botulinum toxin type B . This is propaganda, since the soldiers ate expired food from rusted cans to get sick with it.
Navalny may have been poisoned, but it wasn't Novichok. It is hard to understate the lethality of modern chemical weapons. If there had been a couple drops(enough to kill thousands) in his tea as is theorized, he would have dropped dead by the time he boarded the plane, and he certainly wouldn't be casually walking out of the hospital a couple weeks later.
Botched poisoning happens. Nothing works as planned.
A botched poisoning with Novichok makes someone a retarded cripple. Whatever happened to Navalny it couldn't have been one of the most absurdly effective nerve agents on the planet, especially considering the supposed time between exposure and treatmemt.
Not really, if the dose is low enough.
If the dose was low enough to not permanently mess him up, then it was too low to be detectable.
How the fuck could you (or anybody else) possibly know this?
Because that's how you get that toxin from. Unless they were playing around with botox injection from a garage-made botox to look fabulous... It is also not unexpected, considering that Russians are using soviet made ammo, and even truck tyres from the soviet era. I have no doubt that they could even be consuming soviet made food that was badly stored somewhere.
Did you see their exposition of a Chinese made agricultural sprayer drones labeled as "USA" made "bioweapons" drones? Complete with a mannequin in a black chemical suit with a German flag printed on it.
It's at their "First International Anti-Fascist Congress", aka "Army 2022".
No I didn't. Hahaha that is hilarious!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FanP-7DXgAA3YLs?format=jpg&name=large
A Cyryllic "USA" under the drone.
WOW!! hahahahahaha
That is hilarious indeed! Thank you for the laughs!
Now acknowledge how they "probably" murdered civilians deliberately.
Why would you be against a "persecution" of communists, anyway?
There was very little condemnation of Russia from this sub, though outside it it was more like you described. In fact the running theme here was "Ukraine shouldn't have made Putin do this!", which was and is retarded. My dissenting comments regularly got -40/+0 votes. Guess whose opinions have aged like milk and whose have aged like wine?
Exactly. Ukraine shouldn't have forced Putin to do it.
You laugh, but keep in mind that knowledge about reality is not evenly distributed.
Neither is intelligence or morality, as you so aptly demonstrate.
You didn't have to volunteer as the example, but thanks.
They put a gun to his head and told him they will rape his daughter unless he does it.
She's still their hostage, this is why he can't quit.
Ukraine's puppetmasters tried to kamikaze the Russian economy with sanctions.
And even if he stopped, the West will continue the fight until the last drop of Ukrainian blood, to get their hands on Sevastopol and the population of the Donbass which does not want their corrupt coup regime.
Why would he stop? Better make it worth it instead. There should be a rump Ukraine which acts like Vichy France.
They've openly and officially and publicly warned him there will be most severe sanctions if he does go full retard, begging him not to do it, and yet he did anyway.
No, Ukraine will continue to fight. For their own country, for their own nation, for their own families and their own homes. It's not their first dance too, and they long proved themsleves to be the most hardcore nationalists one can even imagine.
Even Russian proapaganda constantly claims they're fighting against "nationalists" and yet you're more oricsh than the orcs themselves.
Much of the "population of Donbass" is either still in the free territory, under the savage Russian shelling and bombing, or evacuated to the west, including safe in Poland and elsewhere.
Who the hell cares about the yapping of these worthless curs?
We, their subjects, regard them with absolute contempt, and so should Putin.
Turns out, corrupt Western leaders don't decide what Russia does. Womp womp.
It's not even a real country. It's a corrupt shiithole willed into existence by the Bolshies. If they want 'decommunization', they can have it... Ukraine ceases to exist.
How so? For pointing out that Western leaders don't care about Ukrainian lives, except insofar as they can instrumentalize them to advance their own personal interests?
My objective is that the West lose a puppet/ally. Better Ukraine than Taiwan. At least Taiwan does well by its people. The Ukrainian 'state', on the other than, has been such a monumental failure, that it will only be for the benefit of the people if it is put out of it misery.
The People's Republics?
Ukraine was conquered by the Bolsheviks. (About half of it, at least.)
It was ironically a People's Republic. You're apparently a fan of this concept, but only if it means a Russian colony.
The Bolsheviks then murdered millions of locals in the east Ukraine, and imported Russian colonists in their place.
We care so much about their lives, Poland is now just full of Ukrainian refugees on our dime.
You can't be serious. You're not actually going to declare Polish cities like Lwow to be "Ukrainian", right? That would be helluva Stockholm Syndrome.
Do remind me, all these "Ukrainian areas". What was the Ukrainian state they were part of in 1913?
It's a meaningless concept, like every state and party name.
Almost every major Ukrainian city, save Kiev, was founded by the Russian Empire. Regardless, you actually want to argue that the borders of the current Ukrainian state are precisely coterminous with where ethnic Little Russians lived in 1921?
Poland and Hungary are not the West. They're respectable countries. I'll believe Polish people care about Ukrainians, not ze Germans and the rest of the EU though, nor the Americans who are inciting them to get themselves killed.
And to speak of the Ukrainian People's Republic (Putin didn't tell you about it, I know), our president (one of your "Western leaders don't care about Ukrainian lives") on the 100th anniversary:
https://www.president.pl/news/president-wants-polish-ukrainian-soldiers-from-1920-jointly-honoured,37106
These Ukrainian soldiers (who were then betrayed by Poland in the peace treaty with Russia, which is a great shame, and the Bolsheviks should have been fought into complete extinction no matter what sacrifice it had to take because the entire humanity was at the stake) apparently fought for their country against the Bolsheviks "willing Ukraine into existence", according to you, being retarded.
Just STOP BELIEVING THE FUCKING RUSSIAN LIES. Is it hard to you? Something blocking your brain?
I told you Poland is not part of the West.
Also, it seems like you're not clear on my position. I love the West. I despise Western leaders for their ignorance, their cowardice, their corruption, their destruction of our countries and their warmongering.
Are you sure Poland could have not only driven them out, but removed them from power?
Well yeah. Name one time when there was a country named 'Ukraine' before. A short-lived Republic which couldn't hold its own against a bunch of ragged Bolsheviks doesn't count.
Stop believing the lies of the Drag Queen Empire, and I think we can come to an agreement.
I don't approve of downvoting people for having different opinions, but can you explain how your opinions 'aged like wine'?
"I ignored any evidence that I was wrong."
by "we" I assume you mean the pro-Russia anti-Ukraine "Right". Oh? Did you give an empty, performative "condemnation" while in substance doing everything you could to help Russia? Such as arguing against sanctions and aid to Ukraine? You're not fooling anybody.
Your "we" is comprised of paid shills and Putin's useful idiots.
LOL. "I mean, we probably acknowledged that the nazis killed some jews on accident while trying to fight the war" wow dude you're so centrist and unbiased!
Except Ukraine didn't "lie" in any significant sense, while Russia has been lying constantly. Putin shills attempt to show Ukrainian "lies" fall laughably flat. Dumb shit like "muh ghost of kiev". meanwhile Russian troops mass murder civilians on purpose in Bucha & mass murder POWs while you say nothing.
Yes, those are called "the enemy" and it's a war. The US and UK did the same thing in WW2, worse, if anything. 100% legitimate behavior in a war.
So that's a lie. "barrier troops" only existed in the USSR in WW2. I've followed the war closely and never even seen this accusation before, then again I follow legitimate news sources and not russian telegram propaganda accounts.
LOL I'm not a member of the "regressive left and globalist conspirators" and yet I support Ukraine and cheer for Russia getting its shit pushed in. It's HIMARS-O-Clock!
Retarded "both sides" pablum. And no, you're wrong. Putin made the decision to invade a year ago and the diplomacy dance was nothing but a farce designed to keep France and Germany from giving support.
I did not even condemn the invasion, because it was 80% the fault of the West and of Ukraine and only 20% Putin's fault for not taking Ukraine in 2014. Your turn.
Is this really how you're going to talk about people who disagree with your Eyepatch McCain POV? As if they are idiots for not sharing the views of CNN, like you do.
Someone being wary of war propaganda, like the Ghost of Kiev and the serial lies put out by the puppet state, and echoed by the media.
Oh right, that 'mass murder of POWs' was when Ukraine used Western weapons on the Azov Nazis, and you blamed it on Russia, right?
And I don't recall you condemning Ukraine shooting POWs in the knees and the numerous abuses documented on video and apparently bragged about on Ukrainian telegram channels.
Now tell us what those 'legitimate news sources' say about Republicans.
Ooooooh.
I think someone tried to use a HIMARS on my car.
There was a pothole nearby.
That makes little sense, because the armies seemed woefully unprepared.
By "barrier troops" he means border guards probably.
And/or military police, and civilian police too.
Or he's actually retarded, who knows.