Fuck this Leftist Terrorism, and fuck the corporate media & political sophists & rhetoricians making up BOLD. FACED. LIES. Please shove this in the face of any retard you encounter IRL.
This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. This is not an argument. This is not a controversy. There was none before. There is none now. The law in the US has not changed on this issue in many decades. Anyone who claims the shooting of Renee Good by Officer Jonathan Ross is anything but an obvious case of a self-defense shooting by an officer against a suspect, is a liar and a fraud. Especially, if that person has any legal background, or worse: is an attorney. They are knowingly spreading disinformation.
Ofc Jonathan Ross is a victim of a vehicular attack. Renee Good is the criminal suspect. This is not a discussion.
If you accelerate a vehicle in the direction of anyone at close range, it is reasonable for them to open fire on you in self-defense. Using Andrew Branca's 5 Principles of Self Defense we'll go over why:
- Innocence - A law enforcement officer in the performance of their duty is innocent of a crime. Yes, ICE are "real police". Yes, ICE can arrest you for obstructing their investigations. No, this is not a debate. Anyone who has said otherwise has knowingly lied to you. This is especially true if the person who has said this to you has a background in law of any kind.
- Reasonableness - Any reasonable person would reasonably expect that they were at a high risk of death, maiming, or hospitalization from being struck by a car.
- Imminence - An accelerating vehicle at close range means that the use of the deadly weapon that is a fast moving vehicle, is a threat that is actively aggressing upon the victim.
- Proportionality - A fast accelerating vehicle, a short distance from you, traveling towards you is a deadly force threat against your life and it is proportional to meet this deadly force threat with deadly force by virtue of a weapon.
- Avoidance - A fast accelerating vehicle, a short distance from you, traveling towards you is nearly impossible to avoid easily by feet alone.
Notice, at no point, I mentioned "the suspect intended to escape". This is because it doesn't matter, so nobody cares. Anyone who has told you that this matters is knowingly lying to you, especially if they have a background in law.
Hence, law enforcement, for many years, has shot and killed people that they reasonably believed were aggressing upon them or anyone else with a vehicle. The suspect's thoughts at the time when they attacked the officer is NOT RELEVANT. The act is sufficient. This is not new. This is not the first time this has ever happened in American history. The list of comparable cases are enumerable, which is why this is settled case law.
They are so enumerable that I will now list 10 of them where no officer faced discipline for the shooting.
- Terrance Shane was shot by officers of the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department for crushing and officer with his door as he attempted to evade arrest
- Miesha Scott was shot by officers of the LAPD-Harbor Division after she struck a woman, missed and officer, and fled after leaving a child custody exchange
- Melanie Udell was shot by Ofc Nathan Anderson of the Bismark Police Department after striking an Ofc Matthew James with her car and mounting the vehicle on a snowbank.
- Aiden English was shot by officers of the Chicago Police Department after reversing into an officer and crushing him while attempting to escape
- Holly Lynn Graham was shot by officers of the Columbus Police Department after accelerating into an officer, striking him, and mounting him on the hood of the car
- Jamazea Kittell was shot in the face by Ofc Brad Kim of the Vallejo Police Department as he attempted to escape arrest by driving through the officer in a stolen car. This is almost an exactly identical incident to the one in Minneapolis.
- Jeremy Bennett was shot by multiple NYPD officers accelerating towards officers after having rammed into multiple civilian and law enforcement vehicles during his attempt to escape a pursuit. 7 Officers and 1 civilian were hospitalized in the incident.
- Charles McGonegal II was shot by multiple Manteca Police Officers after having rammed multiple civilian vehicles, and then rammed 2 police cruisers.
- Maxie Ray Whitaker was shot multiple times by Houston Police Officers for dragging a police officer in an attempt to flee.
- Manuel Ramirez was shot a fusillade of gunfire from LAPD officers in an attempt to evade a pursuit and stand off.
I'm tired of the lies and the insane gaslighting by Leftists and Communists who are raping civilization and endorsing terrorism as a moral imperative.
Just TODAY there was ANOTHER vehicle attacks on ICE agents in Portland. At this point, I wish Trump would declare Oregon and Minnesota in a state of insurrection since they are openly insistent on killing federal law enforcement.
Holy fuck the magnitude of the lies pissed Giz off so much he actually came back from getting milk.
IT'S SKIM MOTHERFUCKER
observe as the Jew says something obvious and in agreement with the sub to make itself seem like it’s on our side
And he comes back right after Imp got banned. Really makes you think.
After disappearing right when the government shutdown started and staying gone for the duration, you really should have created a new account instead waiting a bit longer and assuming everyone would forget.
/u/What_password , Did the new mods say anything about telling other people that they should do things that would violate Rule 2?
“Oy vey! I’m going to tell mommy and daddy on you!”
Silly goose, I'm asking him if I can violate Rule 2.
You’re asking permission to say mean things to me over the internet? Instead of just asking the mods you did so by replying to my post and asking a third party about it. That’s stupid, you’re stupid.
Remember, 90% of arguing with leftists like u/Gizortnik is them just pretending to not understand things.
He's pretending not to understand things. I know what I said. You're projecting
I like how Giz is supposed to be a leftist because he opposes socialism
Yes, because it is a call-back to the fact that he told me about the changes. You're very slow.
I understood it was a callback but the context also hinted that you were going to tell the mods on me for violating rules. You then clarified that you were asking permission to say mean things to me on the internet. This I stupid, you’re stupid.
It doesn't have anything with reporting you to the mods, it's about reporting me to the mods.
How was the furlough? Did you get back pay from the government shutdown?
I specifically stated I want 4.5 million fired federal employees, but 450,000 is a good start.
I've met 3 federal employees that lost their job to Trump, and I'm glad they did.
I bet. Less budget competition for your own department, amirite?
No, because I don't work in the government.
If we colonize Greenland though... mmmmmmm
Imp gets banned and giz immediately comes back? Illuminati fucking confirmed
Don't forget that giz disappeared right when the government shutdown started.
Imp is a stormfag against women.
Nah, her dropped his anti-feminist cover and went full anti-white.
I don't believe you because I think you've called me anti-white.
Then do you believe me? I don't think that I've ever called you anything.
Imp's new iteration had completely gone off the rails. Every single post he made, he would try to say that anything that happens is because of "natalism", whether the rest of the board considered the topic positive or negative. He would argue that anything that promotes reproduction in any way, shape or form was evil, while focusing only on Western nations. He took every criticism of Israel's actions as a personal affront, and repeatedly refused to acknowledge that they had an excessive amount of influence on North American politics. He even defended the actions of women, if they were in favour of Israel or if they contributed in reducing the birth rates in the US. And not once did he provide any study to support anything he was saying; he was completely far gone from the autist who was once willing to dig up over a dozen different research papers to support a random claim he made.
His tune had changed, and any semblance of rationality he used to have disappeared alongside his old beliefs.
Yes, I chose to believe you. You're more reasonable.
He still likes Forza though!
I like what Forza used to be.
Idk man I like Horizon 4 and I'm praying Horizon 6 is good. Not preordering, and waiting for reviews. But I still have hope as a bit of a weeb and JDM fan
Oh the fed is back.
Oh please
And here we see jew pretending to be normal.
Hush fag, adults are talking.
Deadly force would be justified even under the more narrow self defense laws that apply to civilians since it's an obvious threat of death or grave bodily harm.
Correct. Given identical criteria of: an innocent party having a vehicle accelerate towards them at a speed that is likely to cause hospitalization if struck; an uninvolved 3rd party could also fire at the driver, as it would be considered self defense.
motherfucking gaslighting brings me right back, I guess.
There's new mods and imp was banned again in case you missed it.
Mods are still fags, though.
Or a need to furiously lick the boot. Youtube is also pumping out a ridiculous amount of pro police propaganda at the moment while hiding a lot of what looks bad.They've even got that stupid extra message under any video that mentions sovrein people.
No wonder America's in this mess if people are supporting police,let alone actually punishing them, over murders like these for nudging a cop with a car even if they were in the wrong being there blocking the road.
Would they be supporting ordinary people that gunned down the police or the mobs we saw during the 2020 riots in similar circumstances or enforcing the constitution or basic rights?
Honestly, I disagree that YouTube is "pumping out" any thing but both. Pro and Anti-Cop videos get lots of clicks. I watch way too much of them as it is, so I actually see a lot of both. Tim Pool was correct that algorithms pushed rage-bait cop videos. However, pro-cop videos have also found an audience.
The Sovereign Citizen & Moorish Kingdom movements are pseudo-historical frauds that gets it's own adherents put in prison. Moreover, the idea that these movements could confuse the legal system enough with rhetorical warfare has backfired so hard that the system has immunized itself against them. So, every part of the justification of these movements is dead.
I would be happy to abolish the police, but it has to be replaced with something. Preferably a mass conscription militia system. That way everyone has to deal with the meth head instead of government employees.
The police were the primary targets of 2020, even more so than normal people. Hence why there is a George Floyd Effect in crime rates.
Even if it weren't legal, she knowingly put herself in a dangerous situation, that she knew beforehand could escalate into something deadly. She did this in defense of foreign invaders. I have less than zero sympathy for this traitor.
Correct take right here. Order of events matters. Leftists love to cut off the examination at very convenient "break points". "This never would have happened if ICE wasn't present! ICE should leave! For our safety!" No, motherfuckers, ICE is supposed to be there because you flagrantly violated our immigration laws. So YOU are responsible for this woman's death.
And that examination only becomes more damning for leftists the further you go back. Why are illegals there? Because you paid them to be there. You gave them money, food, housing, healthcare, education. You incentivized them to come and stay. So these tense and dangerous confrontations with law enforcement are a result of leftist behavior.
It's the same logic they use when some dindu gets killed for trying to steal someone's car. "No property is worth a human life!" Correct, motherfucker, which is why you shouldn't put your own life in danger trying to steal property. The thief is responsible for what happens to himself as a direct result of his own behavior.
Sometimes I wonder if all of this comes down to "what if you didn't have breakfast today?" If everything is happening right now, if your time horizon doesn't include past or present, then how can you ever identify cause versus effect? How can you ever correctly assign locus of control?
And I think intelligent leftists, the ones who do know better, pretend not to. They say things they know to be untrue - things like "this only happened because police forced it to happen" - because leftists know their sub-90-IQ constituents will agree and feed off of that retarded logic. It's unholy union between stupid savages and manipulative subversives.
The problem is there is no way for it to be an illegal shooting.
I'm willing to show the level of sympathy that JD Vance showed: This was a middle-aged white woman radicalized into terrorism by the left, and that is the only thing she was a victim of.
Did she? If women really thought they would be in danger, they wouldn't even leave the house. It's all a big LARP to them, and this feckless administration was all too eager to entertain them.
She thought she was defending the poor helpless darkies against the gun wielding whitey oppressors. That whole scenario required her to acknowledge even a small amount of danger to her.
Women might be retarded, ignorant, and vain, but this woman wasn't brainwashed into letting some muslim rapist into her home. She went to go protect them from people she was brainwashed to believe were ultra violent nazis.
Now, the real question is whether she thought they would dare to use that violence on her, a whyte wahmen.
Your final sentence is the truth of the matter. They believe the garbage they spew, so they think as a privileged white, the forces that be won't harm them and they can be a shield for the shitskins
Nice post. Welcome back Giz.
thx
Fun fact: you can also shoot cops if you have a gun and are faster than them.
Not legally
Legal is what you can get away with. Keep complying and see where it gets you.
OMG IM GONNA COMPLYYYYYYYYYY
If you're smart, it means you walk away with millions of dollars from a settlement when the cops are wrong. After that, just continue to assert your rights like someone who knows them.
If you want to engage in Civil Disobedience, call it that, and then don't whine like a bitch about injustice when you get arrested. If you are actually standing up against and immoral or unjust law, then take the hit like a man.
Do you know how many law enforcement and military and agency people are in America? Civilians outnumber them 30 to 1. We have 200 million more registered weapons. The only reason anyone complies with anything is because they dont understand how utterly weak and feel their actual power is.
No, the population co-operates with policing because most people don't want to police their own communities since it takes a significant physical burden, and would take them away from their precious precious corporate wage slavery. Now hush.
That's absolutely incorrect and you know it fag. Everyone has ALWAYS policed their own communities and have always preferred it. "Law enforcement" was ALWAYS a push from those in power to gain revenue from the populace, it was NEVER about safety you fucken mook.
Do you even know what the word sheriff means? Its french. You paid the king a shitload of money to become the riever of a county for a period of time, and your job was to make more money from squeezing the peasantry with "fines" than you spent to get the job.
Fuck off with your boomer tier judeochristian evangelical greatest ally muh social securities Medicare 401ks mushbrain grandpa.
It's not French, it's Anglo-Saxon you numpty.
"Scir Gerefa" - "Steward of the land"
Most of what you said is ahistorical nonsense. Peasants would have had almost no money to collect from. Lords and Barons would have had to pay taxes to the King. Peasants made agricultural products that the lords collected, and those agricultural products are where the lords made most of their money. There's no real banks for peasants to keep money in, that's not a thing. Then with all of that, you fail to recognize that in Feudalism: the king is the law. There are no liberal societies or liberal rights concepts in Feudal Europe.
Now, here's my question. Why would a Hitler-cuck like you have a problem with law enforcement when you worship a system with a totalitarian police force like the Gestapo?
This is why I think most of you are larping Communists. A genuine National Socialist would demand a violent and uncompromising police force, which would be an extension of the state that required unquestioning loyalty. Instead, you ran with ahistorical nonsense that I suspect you found on a blog that called police 'the first slave patrols'.
Shooting cops is illegal violence, so please don't post comments like this.
Hold up, his name is Jonathan Ross? Like the broadcaster?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ross
Strangely yes.
There is a bone to pick with this one, albeit not significant to make a difference. Shooting a person stops their advance. Shooting the driver of a vehicle does not necessarily stop the vehicle's advance.
If you have enough time to draw and fire, that effort would have better spent on evading if your goal is survival. At short range anyway. When the vehicle is far enough away that they could deliberately keep steering towards you, then it makes more sense to shoot the driver. Then even if the vehicle continues to accelerate, you more easily evade.
Your first point is correct and is why you should never place yourself in front of the vehicle especially if you are a cop.
HOWEVER, it is irrelevant because you are meeting deadly force with deadly force once that situation takes place.
Additionally, your second point is wrong because evasion is not possible at these speeds and distances. Cops drawing and firing from their holster is probably going to max out at 2 seconds most of the time, normally they are faster because they stage their draw and are open carrying. Your ability to evade an oncoming vehicle in 1 to 1.5 seconds, including the time your brain takes to recognize the threat is effectively zero. This might be different if you're standing 50' away, and the car is not necessarily driving at you, but not when you're less than 5' away. If a car is in knife-fighting range, then shooting the driver with the one round you will get off before you get hit is the only way to avoid being struck multiple times, or dragged a great distance, even if the suspect dies with their foot on the gas pedal.
We agree that it doesn't matter because it's self-defense in face of a deadly threat. I'm just talking about timing and physics.
Why do you include reaction time as a factor in evading, but not in drawing and firing? I assume you've seen the video. Assuming the same reaction time, jumping to the side would be faster than drawing and firing. Even if we assumed they take the same amount of time, shooting the driver does not guarantee the threat goes away.
If you want to say it's to stop the threat for benefit of others or public safety or whatever, then fine. Neutralizing the threat has additional value beyond evasion. But I still say from a purely "don't get killed by the car" standpoint, from his starting position, evading was equivalent or faster and more reliable.
I think either I misspoke or you misunderstood me. That is the "draw to first shot" time. 1 to 1.5 seconds to evade compared to 1 to 1.5 seconds to draw and fire. Evasion is impossible, shooting at that speed is a professional shooter standard. You won't get out of the way, but you will get one shot. Sometimes, as we see here, that's enough.
I don't really agree that evading at the range he was at would have helped. At a further distance? Absolutely. 20 feet or so, sure. The issue is that you must never put yourself in a position where that can happen. The choice in the moment is effectively irrelevant when you can mitigate it altogether with more space. "Distance buys you time. Time buys you options"
There are an awful lot of guys who say "Jew" a lot who desperately want any possible excuse to rage against cops. All of them need to just be called retards until they fuck off. Anybody who saw what happened and pretended there was a single thing the ICE guys did wrong is an enemy even if they like to say the word nigger.
Literally nobody here is mad at this particular cop.
It’s an admitted paid jewish shill. Just like Imp, it deflects jewish responsibility for literally anything, everywhere.
Why are you telling everyone what your boss’s script is? Now we know exactly what your account is, admitted paid jewish shill.
Say the line, kike. You’ll be fired if you don’t.
Fuck off retard.
Ladies and gentlemen, it’s just that easy.
Fuck off retard.
I see somebody doesn't remember how cops behaved during covid. Just because they're currently putting the boots to filthy commies doesn't mean that government enforcers are your friends. At best they're a currently useful enemy of an enemy.
This probably sounded really smart to guys who don't realize ICE and local police aren't the same thing.
The both hire the same types, who would happily Waco you or I and then pose for pictures in front of the smoking rubble.
That's because I'm convinced that a swathe of them are just literally Communists-larping-as-Fascists and Glowniggers just trying to get people killed by law enforcement.
There's a subfaction of ESL retards as well, but it's not really worth separating them out from the "communist but says racial slurs" heading because they're functionally the same.
That's like, fucking, half of them as it is.
"We must protect a future for our White children."
This is exactly correct. The Media is pumping out pure fiction, fabrication & lies non-stop over this. They love how it helps them cover-up the Somali Scandal, eh?
She was there to commit felony crimes. She was one of the organizers of a paid domestic terrorist organization. She had just seconds before tried to ram an ICE vehicle.
She was not being ordered to "move away" that's a flat-out lie. She was lawfully ordered to get out of her car, which she refused.
She did not "flee in a panic" for any reason. Guns did not come out until after she gunned the motor and started moving towards the officer.
She took the car out of reverse & put it in drive. She turned the wheels from the left (away from the officer) to the right (directly at him). She then GUNNED the motor, causing the wheels to spin for a second which probably saved his life.
She loaded her weapon, pointed it at an LEO and pulled the trigger.
The cop's phone video is actually more damaging than anything. You can see from his perspective just how little time he had, and how aggressively she tried to avoid being arrested.