Is it a bad sign that the first follow-up that comes to mind is "which one, the aircraft or the helicopter?", or is it worse that a not unreasonable answer is to suspect both?
judging from the article, i'd say more likely heli or ground-control...
the crash happened while the plane was on approach for a landing, so they might not have been able to get out of the way in time. not a pilot, though, so I can't say for sure.
Latest news is that PAT25 was over their cleared ceiling.
They were at 400', their clearance was not above 200'.
Now, there's a good question to be asked in there about why DCA's controllers and the FAA were willing to live with 200' of vertical separation less than a mile from the threshold of a runway...
As for why, because apparently it's common for helis to practice, and if you're deconflicting visually both hundreds of feet under the flight path and behind it (when it's near that flight level) it should be safe. Has been for a long time, anyway
I found a post where a pilot claimed there was a 200' VFR corridor allowing government helos to go UNDER DCA's approach glideslope.
I can't seem to find said post now. But, breitbart is now also mentioning the same point, albeit in less detail. So I have no reason to doubt the existence of such a clearance.
"For safety reasons, the altitude on those helicopter flights is capped at 200 feet."
they're saying the plane was on final approach when it hit a helicopter, how does a plane even hit a helicopter? would they not have different approach vectors since the helicopter would be landing on a pad?
American 5342 was on final, fully configured for landing and cleared for runway 33. Controller instructed PAT-25 (who had confirmed he had visual on the plane) to pass behind. That instruction was not followed.
Guaranteed the final report will be pilot deviation, wholly the army pilot's fault. The only question is how much spite the NTSB packs into their report over poor airspace management around Reagan.
5342 was below FL010 so TCAS would have been inhibited.
Controller instructed PAT-25 (who had confirmed he had visual on the plane) to pass behind. That instruction was not followed.
Plus PAT25 indicated that they had the CRJ in sight and requested visual separation, making it their responsibility to maintain separation.
The only question is how much spite the NTSB packs into their report over poor airspace management around Reagan.
If this video is real (and it certainly appears to be), I definitely think that while the fault will be with the PAT25 pilot the ATC will be listed as a factor. It may have been PAT25's responsibility but it's not as if that means ATC can't say anything.
A leak from the FAA's preliminary investigation claims that the DCA tower was understaffed at the time of the accident. One controller was handling approach and departure, as well as local helicopter traffic, and that for the time of day and volume of traffic in the area it would have been normal (at DCA) for helicopter movements to have a separate controller. Also, Congress's staffing target for DCA's controllers is 30, they're considered fully staffed at 28, but they currently have 24 controllers.
I've seen some reports that bodies have been pulled from the Potomac as well. Some reports are saying that it was a Priority Air Transport (VIP) helicopter.
They were training right there in the final approach glideslope of one of the busiest airports in the country?! That's just insane. What were they training? Close calls with other aircraft? Fly over the airport right down the middle perpendicular to it (actually where ATC prefers, you're flying over planes on the ground). Go train on the other side of the airport.
Everything I’ve seen this was on the helicopter. There’s another clip of helicopter frequency at DCA where they report traffic in sight and request (and are approved) visual separation. Meaning it’s now on the pilot of the helicopter to keep away from the plane. They essentially said “yeah, I see it and won’t hit it.”
Everything I heard from ATC they all sounded quite competent, the tower moved immediately to redirecting all the other planes without hesitation, you can barely tell anything happened. The pilot of the plane couldn’t have done anything they were near landing very close to the ground and wouldn’t even be considering traffic at that point. Helicopter shouldn’t have run into the plane it said it saw. I’d also want to know wtf it was doing lurking around the end of a runway at a major airport where it looks like at least four planes were inbound.
Same here but for work. All so we can meet in a big room in person to discuss the same shit we've been talking about via teams meetings and email for weeks.
New York Times claims that there have been such near-misses on a weekly basis in the past year (and reported on it before this present accident), and blames it on understaffed ATC. Take it for what it's worth. The first part sounds pretty alarming.
DEI probability?
Is it a bad sign that the first follow-up that comes to mind is "which one, the aircraft or the helicopter?", or is it worse that a not unreasonable answer is to suspect both?
judging from the article, i'd say more likely heli or ground-control...
the crash happened while the plane was on approach for a landing, so they might not have been able to get out of the way in time. not a pilot, though, so I can't say for sure.
Overworked ATC?
Seems to be helicopter pilot was the one who fucked up primarily
Latest news is that PAT25 was over their cleared ceiling.
They were at 400', their clearance was not above 200'.
Now, there's a good question to be asked in there about why DCA's controllers and the FAA were willing to live with 200' of vertical separation less than a mile from the threshold of a runway...
Jfc. Retards. That's even worse.
Do you have a source?
As for why, because apparently it's common for helis to practice, and if you're deconflicting visually both hundreds of feet under the flight path and behind it (when it's near that flight level) it should be safe. Has been for a long time, anyway
I found a post where a pilot claimed there was a 200' VFR corridor allowing government helos to go UNDER DCA's approach glideslope.
I can't seem to find said post now. But, breitbart is now also mentioning the same point, albeit in less detail. So I have no reason to doubt the existence of such a clearance.
"For safety reasons, the altitude on those helicopter flights is capped at 200 feet."
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/01/31/video-new-angle-shows-how-midair-washington-plane-helicopter-crash-unfolded/
As for PAT 25's altitude, it's already known to have been 300-400 feet just based on 5342's ADSB.
Thanks. I glanced around and couldn't find a source.
Yeah, I knew it was around 400 feet, just not that it was supposed to be limited to 200.
Fox news is saying there's two corridors called route 1 and route 4, and that the FAA is putting new rules on them.
https://www.fox5dc.com/video/1585986
https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/09-05-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf
Apparently as of this morning, Route 1 and 4 between the bridges (presumably chain bridge and wilson bridge) are now police and medivac only.
That could be a possibility as well. Someone messed up big time and is probably looking at a prison sentence.
How coulD
climatE changeDrumpfchuds do thIs?!You joke, but I've already seen Trump being blamed for it.
they're saying the plane was on final approach when it hit a helicopter, how does a plane even hit a helicopter? would they not have different approach vectors since the helicopter would be landing on a pad?
Helicopter gets in the way.
American 5342 was on final, fully configured for landing and cleared for runway 33. Controller instructed PAT-25 (who had confirmed he had visual on the plane) to pass behind. That instruction was not followed.
Guaranteed the final report will be pilot deviation, wholly the army pilot's fault. The only question is how much spite the NTSB packs into their report over poor airspace management around Reagan.
5342 was below FL010 so TCAS would have been inhibited.
Plus PAT25 indicated that they had the CRJ in sight and requested visual separation, making it their responsibility to maintain separation.
If this video is real (and it certainly appears to be), I definitely think that while the fault will be with the PAT25 pilot the ATC will be listed as a factor. It may have been PAT25's responsibility but it's not as if that means ATC can't say anything.
Oooo, new news.
A leak from the FAA's preliminary investigation claims that the DCA tower was understaffed at the time of the accident. One controller was handling approach and departure, as well as local helicopter traffic, and that for the time of day and volume of traffic in the area it would have been normal (at DCA) for helicopter movements to have a separate controller. Also, Congress's staffing target for DCA's controllers is 30, they're considered fully staffed at 28, but they currently have 24 controllers.
What is the source for all of this, if you don't mind my asking?
https://x.com/BrianBartlett/status/1884809124115833049
"PAT 25 DO YOU HAVE CRJ IN SIGHT"
"PAT 25 PASS BEHIND THE CRJ"
Video of the incident: https://x.com/BNONews/status/1884791040890089602
I've seen some reports that bodies have been pulled from the Potomac as well. Some reports are saying that it was a Priority Air Transport (VIP) helicopter.
10:1 odds that either the air traffic controller or the flight crew were DEI hires.
Video makes it look intentional. They were beelining right towards that plane.
Media is oddly reporting it the other way around, that the plane flew into the helicopter.
Weird.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/takeoffs-landings-halted-ronald-reagan-national-airport-after-aircraft-incident-2025-01-30/
Is that what appears to happen in the video?
They were training right there in the final approach glideslope of one of the busiest airports in the country?! That's just insane. What were they training? Close calls with other aircraft? Fly over the airport right down the middle perpendicular to it (actually where ATC prefers, you're flying over planes on the ground). Go train on the other side of the airport.
Looks like the helicopter just shouted "Allahu Akbar" and flew right into the plane, to me.
They pulled 4 survivors out as well. I can't help but wonder if the DIE acronym was prescient in this case.
No survivors.
Everything I’ve seen this was on the helicopter. There’s another clip of helicopter frequency at DCA where they report traffic in sight and request (and are approved) visual separation. Meaning it’s now on the pilot of the helicopter to keep away from the plane. They essentially said “yeah, I see it and won’t hit it.”
Everything I heard from ATC they all sounded quite competent, the tower moved immediately to redirecting all the other planes without hesitation, you can barely tell anything happened. The pilot of the plane couldn’t have done anything they were near landing very close to the ground and wouldn’t even be considering traffic at that point. Helicopter shouldn’t have run into the plane it said it saw. I’d also want to know wtf it was doing lurking around the end of a runway at a major airport where it looks like at least four planes were inbound.
I am not looking forward to having to fly halfway across the country this Summer for my buddy's wedding.
Be sure to have your will and funeral plans prepared beforehand.
And leave an angry note for the buddy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtGw7i89z2o
Same here but for work. All so we can meet in a big room in person to discuss the same shit we've been talking about via teams meetings and email for weeks.
Yeah no shit, I am going to the Royal Rumble this weekend and have a connecting flight at this same airport tomorrow afternoon. On American Airlines.
Not sure what you're all panicking about. Air travel fatalities have been at a record low in the past 10 years, particularly in north America.
Yeah they have. But something is wrong. And I'm not taking any chances.
Blancolirio already has a video out explaining some of the issues with the airspace. Just listen to that rapid fire radio traffic.
https://youtu.be/ouDAnO8eMf8?si=3vX0j1Sn9I26STQr
And VASAviation is out with the ATC comms and tracks https://youtu.be/CiOybe-NJHk?si=lH-0fAbgHHTylPmn
I'm sure it was a tragic accident that was completely unavoidable, no matter how skilled and trained the operators of both vehicles were.
People are unable to catch even transparent sarcasm.
New York Times claims that there have been such near-misses on a weekly basis in the past year (and reported on it before this present accident), and blames it on understaffed ATC. Take it for what it's worth. The first part sounds pretty alarming.