I don’t understand why they exist (other than perhaps “shyness”), and I doubly don’t understand the fan culture that’s exploded around them. Are they supposed to be “cutesy”/“wholesome” twitch thots or something else entirely?
Basically. They are cute girls, usually with social awkwardness or mental issues, where they don't act like vapid attention seeking whores. Of course girls like that became vtubers too after it was huge, but they still plaster their face and tits on social media. Most of the big ones, JP, and corporate, still act true to being "anime girls in real life" and succeed because of it.
Cause alot of them are honestly entertaining. Chances are, if you're into something, you'll probably find a Vtuber that's also pretty enthusiastic about it.
Plus, the immediate chat feedback can lead to impromptu hilarity. So that's always fun.
Putting aside whales and simps, Vtubers can be... oddly wholesome, at times. I've got a meme stashed away somewhere of Mori Collipe(Hololive Vtuber) basically going 'Guys, don't donate if you don't have any money, spend responsibly, c'mon' with a random Twitch E-thot trying to shame and harass guys into giving her money. It's a weird contrast.
That’s a fair enough angle I can understand. Basically just streamers with privacy or some other personal concern now have an avenue to try to compete in this modern world. That’s whatever. And while I do see the same kind of issues across streaming in general (i.e. simping and pandering), they seem really pronounced here. I’m not totally sure why it feels that way. Maybe the use of the avatar is making me see it as inherently less “genuine”. Then again I’m the kinda guy who just can’t wrap my head around donating to 99.99% of streamers in general, but that’s just me. The few I can somewhat understand are the ones who produce something with some modicum of artistic or other merit. Independent journalists, Sam Hyde, those kinds of channels.
Maybe I'm a little weird, but I don't see any difference between what Vtubers do than what some other streamers do - people like Zach Hazard and Accurize and Vaos don't even bother with avatars when doing their stuff.
I'd even go so far as to say what Vtubers do isn't that much different than what some radio announcers do.
But, like I said, I might be a little weird. I tend to focus on the voice, and if the voice and content isn't good, I just shrug and move on.
Then again, I never donate. But free entertainment is free entertainment...
Idealized Girl Syndrome, or whatever it's actually called if it has a name I didn't make up on the spot.
A bunch of lonely incels and other assorted losers form parasocial relationships with Vtubers (groomed into it by said Vtubers most of the time since many of them only do relationship content/asmr/thot streaming). Now there are some mostly normal Vtubers and a lot of normal people consume the content, but they are a minority share. I've dipped into it myself but only surface level.
The most I've ever dipped into it was clips of unhinged and deranged behavior from the weirdest of them like Pippa or Bao, they don't seem like they're into thot streaming and Pippa actually seems kinda based. I've never watched any streams or subbed to channels. It requires a time investment into these people that's obsessive imo, they want you to watch daily streams and I'm not obsessed with 2D idealized females.
Best one I’ve seen is “anecdata”. But frankly his opinion could have come to him in a dream for all I care, he’s basically the only one who’s shared his view openly in response to my questions, everyone else is just voting on his comment or telling me I don’t get it without telling me how I’m not getting it
That’s kinda the vibe I got from what little I’ve seen of the phenomena. Like some kind of “irl waifu”, and since you can’t see her you’re obviously going to project onto her aspects of your “idealized girl”.
ouuuuu she plays vidya and talks about manga and anime, maybe if I superchat just the right thing she’ll let me show her I’m husbando material
Then you add on top of that this weird “management” (pimp) system and it starts to just feel like twitch thots with extra steps
Then you add on top of that this weird “management” (pimp) system and it starts to just feel like twitch thots with extra steps
What is your definition of thot streaming? Because it kinda feels like a lot of people on the site defines 'thot streaming' as basically women streaming in general. In reality, vtubing, or at least corporate vtubing anyways, is an extension of idol culture, and to summarize vtubing as a whole, it's wrestling using anime avatars.
to summarize vtubing as a whole, it's wrestling using anime avatars.
Huh…that’s a view I’ve never seen articulated before, I can kind of see what you’re saying, based on what little I know of things (also that kind of explains more the “manager” angle - they can set up “storylines” between the girls or whatever)… interesting to say the least but is that really the full story?
What is your definition of thot streaming?
Basically, any time a woman streamer uses the fact she is a woman (explicitly or implicitly) to manipulate her male viewers into donating. This could be as basic as doing titty streams in hot tubs like used to plague twitch, or it could be a chick who always wears sweaters but emotionally manipulates her viewers with any of an infinite number of tactics (flirting for donos, grooming simps/white knights, leading on whale simps in dms, whatever)
is an extension of idol culture
Is that not basically like saying “is an extension of soft core porn culture”? Idol culture, like vtubing, is quite foreign to me, but my understanding is it is basically just soft core / “respectable” porn, and the girls often go into real porn after they age out. Correct me if I’m wrong please
This is the best answer, although someone unfamiliar with idols might not understand what it means.
Idols often play a character or persona in a more sanitized and scripted way vs. what you'd get from a regular streamer or entertainer. The very nature of vtubing is wearing an anime avatar, so it perfectly lends itself to idol culture and the expected facade. Add the anime aspect and some voice acting, and you have the perfect storm to bridge the gap between idols and existing anime fans.
Vtubing has become too broad to make sweeping generalization, but Hololive at least is essentially an idol organization. Maybe they're not everyone's cup of tea, but they uphold very high standards compared to your average Twitch streamer.
A disgusting potential that had crossed my mind too. Given how lucrative the whole thing is, and how artificial it is at its core, I would be more surprised to learn it isn't happening relatively often
I'm the biggest weeb and usually defend that shit but it's pathetic how people actually watch them knowing they are just playing a character and trying to extract as many resources as they can from lonely mentally ill men.
trying to extract as many resources as they can from lonely mentally ill men.
The IRL twitch girls who we know exist because Twitch's admins use Twitch as a brothel? Absolutely.
Female vtubers? Not really, unless you're saying literally playing the character is 'trying to extract resources', and even on the playing a character front, the community that watches vtubers is very good at discovering when people are being disingenuous, as you can see with the downfall of Nijisanji's English branch.
Vtubers have to put some portion of their real selves into the character, or else it just falls flat completely, as seen with various smaller vtubers and their drama that I don't post here.
More importantly, most of the successful vtubers I have seen (especially with Hololive) actually have talent. Unlike the Twitch thots who just flash their boobs for money but have to have their boyfriend play the game and pretend they are doing it.
I can see a good reason to keep your real life identity hidden while still giving the viewer a "face" to look at,especially if you start dabbling in political discussions. It's a bit more stimulating than watching someone's logo on your screen for 30 minute long form videos. That being said, the over the top anime waifu avatars are cringe to me and turn me off from the channel
They aren't. People have it in their head that they must be for some reason, but its literally just streaming but with a fake face cam. Its not that complicated.
A huge portion of it has crossed over with Idol culture from Japan because that's the companies who basically created the genre and invest all the big money into it.
But by its raw definition, and how its used for the 90% of them that aren't from one of the big companies, is literally streaming with a tiny little anime character instead of your face.
Why do people like vtubers?
How are they different from normal youtubers?
I don’t understand why they exist (other than perhaps “shyness”), and I doubly don’t understand the fan culture that’s exploded around them. Are they supposed to be “cutesy”/“wholesome” twitch thots or something else entirely?
"What if anime girls were real?"
Basically. They are cute girls, usually with social awkwardness or mental issues, where they don't act like vapid attention seeking whores. Of course girls like that became vtubers too after it was huge, but they still plaster their face and tits on social media. Most of the big ones, JP, and corporate, still act true to being "anime girls in real life" and succeed because of it.
Cause alot of them are honestly entertaining. Chances are, if you're into something, you'll probably find a Vtuber that's also pretty enthusiastic about it.
Plus, the immediate chat feedback can lead to impromptu hilarity. So that's always fun.
Putting aside whales and simps, Vtubers can be... oddly wholesome, at times. I've got a meme stashed away somewhere of Mori Collipe(Hololive Vtuber) basically going 'Guys, don't donate if you don't have any money, spend responsibly, c'mon' with a random Twitch E-thot trying to shame and harass guys into giving her money. It's a weird contrast.
Rotten mean can be tasty if you cut away the rotten parts.
Anything is good if you specifically cut away the bad parts.
That’s a fair enough angle I can understand. Basically just streamers with privacy or some other personal concern now have an avenue to try to compete in this modern world. That’s whatever. And while I do see the same kind of issues across streaming in general (i.e. simping and pandering), they seem really pronounced here. I’m not totally sure why it feels that way. Maybe the use of the avatar is making me see it as inherently less “genuine”. Then again I’m the kinda guy who just can’t wrap my head around donating to 99.99% of streamers in general, but that’s just me. The few I can somewhat understand are the ones who produce something with some modicum of artistic or other merit. Independent journalists, Sam Hyde, those kinds of channels.
Any video game youtube channel is an act. Its not genuine anyways
Maybe I'm a little weird, but I don't see any difference between what Vtubers do than what some other streamers do - people like Zach Hazard and Accurize and Vaos don't even bother with avatars when doing their stuff.
I'd even go so far as to say what Vtubers do isn't that much different than what some radio announcers do.
But, like I said, I might be a little weird. I tend to focus on the voice, and if the voice and content isn't good, I just shrug and move on.
Then again, I never donate. But free entertainment is free entertainment...
Idealized Girl Syndrome, or whatever it's actually called if it has a name I didn't make up on the spot.
A bunch of lonely incels and other assorted losers form parasocial relationships with Vtubers (groomed into it by said Vtubers most of the time since many of them only do relationship content/asmr/thot streaming). Now there are some mostly normal Vtubers and a lot of normal people consume the content, but they are a minority share. I've dipped into it myself but only surface level.
The most I've ever dipped into it was clips of unhinged and deranged behavior from the weirdest of them like Pippa or Bao, they don't seem like they're into thot streaming and Pippa actually seems kinda based. I've never watched any streams or subbed to channels. It requires a time investment into these people that's obsessive imo, they want you to watch daily streams and I'm not obsessed with 2D idealized females.
Typing a big authoritative essay and concluding it with "I've never watched any of it" is really funny.
Is "experiential fallacy" a term, or does something similar exist? There probably should be a term for it.
Best one I’ve seen is “anecdata”. But frankly his opinion could have come to him in a dream for all I care, he’s basically the only one who’s shared his view openly in response to my questions, everyone else is just voting on his comment or telling me I don’t get it without telling me how I’m not getting it
That’s kinda the vibe I got from what little I’ve seen of the phenomena. Like some kind of “irl waifu”, and since you can’t see her you’re obviously going to project onto her aspects of your “idealized girl”.
Then you add on top of that this weird “management” (pimp) system and it starts to just feel like twitch thots with extra steps
What is your definition of thot streaming? Because it kinda feels like a lot of people on the site defines 'thot streaming' as basically women streaming in general. In reality, vtubing, or at least corporate vtubing anyways, is an extension of idol culture, and to summarize vtubing as a whole, it's wrestling using anime avatars.
Huh…that’s a view I’ve never seen articulated before, I can kind of see what you’re saying, based on what little I know of things (also that kind of explains more the “manager” angle - they can set up “storylines” between the girls or whatever)… interesting to say the least but is that really the full story?
Basically, any time a woman streamer uses the fact she is a woman (explicitly or implicitly) to manipulate her male viewers into donating. This could be as basic as doing titty streams in hot tubs like used to plague twitch, or it could be a chick who always wears sweaters but emotionally manipulates her viewers with any of an infinite number of tactics (flirting for donos, grooming simps/white knights, leading on whale simps in dms, whatever)
Is that not basically like saying “is an extension of soft core porn culture”? Idol culture, like vtubing, is quite foreign to me, but my understanding is it is basically just soft core / “respectable” porn, and the girls often go into real porn after they age out. Correct me if I’m wrong please
This is the best answer, although someone unfamiliar with idols might not understand what it means.
Idols often play a character or persona in a more sanitized and scripted way vs. what you'd get from a regular streamer or entertainer. The very nature of vtubing is wearing an anime avatar, so it perfectly lends itself to idol culture and the expected facade. Add the anime aspect and some voice acting, and you have the perfect storm to bridge the gap between idols and existing anime fans.
Vtubing has become too broad to make sweeping generalization, but Hololive at least is essentially an idol organization. Maybe they're not everyone's cup of tea, but they uphold very high standards compared to your average Twitch streamer.
Don't make me tap the sign
...I wonder how many of them are actually guys using an AI voice.
Zentreya
A disgusting potential that had crossed my mind too. Given how lucrative the whole thing is, and how artificial it is at its core, I would be more surprised to learn it isn't happening relatively often
I'm the biggest weeb and usually defend that shit but it's pathetic how people actually watch them knowing they are just playing a character and trying to extract as many resources as they can from lonely mentally ill men.
The IRL twitch girls who we know exist because Twitch's admins use Twitch as a brothel? Absolutely.
Female vtubers? Not really, unless you're saying literally playing the character is 'trying to extract resources', and even on the playing a character front, the community that watches vtubers is very good at discovering when people are being disingenuous, as you can see with the downfall of Nijisanji's English branch.
Vtubers have to put some portion of their real selves into the character, or else it just falls flat completely, as seen with various smaller vtubers and their drama that I don't post here.
More importantly, most of the successful vtubers I have seen (especially with Hololive) actually have talent. Unlike the Twitch thots who just flash their boobs for money but have to have their boyfriend play the game and pretend they are doing it.
My hatred for women in general blinds me for any nuance that could be had. There is no way for me to believe they don't want to exploit lonely men.
I can see a good reason to keep your real life identity hidden while still giving the viewer a "face" to look at,especially if you start dabbling in political discussions. It's a bit more stimulating than watching someone's logo on your screen for 30 minute long form videos. That being said, the over the top anime waifu avatars are cringe to me and turn me off from the channel
They aren't. People have it in their head that they must be for some reason, but its literally just streaming but with a fake face cam. Its not that complicated.
A huge portion of it has crossed over with Idol culture from Japan because that's the companies who basically created the genre and invest all the big money into it.
But by its raw definition, and how its used for the 90% of them that aren't from one of the big companies, is literally streaming with a tiny little anime character instead of your face.