🇯🇵 Major crime in the news in Japan
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This is how “high trust” societies function. It’s probably how our kids would be living if globalists weren’t destroying our country through immigration.
Conformist yes, but that doesn't mean everyone is paranoid. This guy didn't miss the trashcan - he admitted to stealing multiple times. The reaction sounds extreme, but I have to wonder how much is "ok" to steal for an authority figure and role-model of children?
He'll probably be allowed to make a comeback after some time has passed and further apologies, but he'll never get a big promotion/salary unless he moves somewhere where the locals didn't hear the news.
This is the correct take. Ruining someone’s career over exploiting for an extra $1 of coffee over the course of a period of time is no different than commie fucks hear trying to ruin your career because you didn’t supply money for a kid to get transitioned.
It’s a gross over correction
No, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. I was more speaking in general about how to treat people in authority who do this. They went totally overboard in his particular case (especially taking away his pension), he did admit the theft and apologize, and I bet even most Japanese people would agree the reaction seems extreme. He hasn't "disgraced" himself. I'm sure he'll be able to get another job after some time passes. Maybe not as an administrator, if only because of the ageism there.
Chill out, I'm not the one who called the police. I only asked what people thought the appropriate punishment should be. Getting away with "just say sorry and pay back the $3.50" is too easy unless we're talking about a child.
I would not be surprised if like someone else here suggested the school only used this excuse to cover up some other hidden scandal... or maybe someone else on campus just hated him and wanted to take his job.
It doesn't matter how much you steal, it matters that you steal.
This is exactly what has led to the moral decline of the West. You think: well, it's just 50 cents, so I guess stealing isn't all that bad. When this sets in motion the slippery slope, the undefeated champion, up to the point that thefts of up to $950 are tolerated in California.
Churchill once asked a woman if she'd have sex with him for a million pounds. She said yes. Then he asked if she'd do it for 10 pounds. She said, why, do you think I'm a whore? And he said: Ma'am, we've already established what you are, now we're haggling over the price. And this is what you're doing. You have basically stated that it's OK to steal what you regard as small sums, and now you're haggling with California over how much it's OK to steal.
Stealing grapes: yes, people shouldn't be putting their disgusting paws on food to begin with. That's worse than stealing.
Jaywalking isn't a crime anywhere outside of America (that I'm aware of), so that's just uncommon silliness.
Is what happened to this guy draconian? Well, yeah. Was it undeserved? No. Having a functioning society has a price, and I'd rather that people like this pay the price than to have my city turned into Chicago.
Context, cost and scale are important for determining degrees of punishment.
You're correct that ALL crimes need punishment to deter even simple infractions, but the context of the crime and the scale of the punishment need to be doled out in respect to the cost it has on society when it comes to stability and maintaining cultural consistency.
In short, the context was over something minor (i.e., coffee), the cost of which was also minor (less than $5) while the scale of punishment was more than what was taken, and a potentially greater detriment to the man's life than what crime he had committed.
I totally agree I wouldn't really last living in Japan, and if I visited I would definitely be relying on their kindness and forgiveness. all that being said, I would not ask them to change a thing. From everything I've watched and read, their society is extremely clean and safe.
On a personal level, I think their weapons laws are extreme (historical fencing with steel trainers is more illegal there than owning a machine gun is in the US), their work culture is oppressive, their seniority system elevates people who don't deserve it while belittling people who do, and their complete allergy to rudeness is even more insulting than if they would just speak their mind. But this is all coming from a person who lives in an individualistic society were the murder rate is much higher, drug use is out of control, the streets are filled with litter, walking around at night is begging for a mugging, productivity and ingenuity are being outsourced to foreign countries, and degenerate lifestyles are considered a moral good amongst a significant portion of the population.
While I have a few theories, I don't know exactly what it is that they do that makes their society so much cleaner than ours, but whatever they're doing it's working.
Japan shouldn't change a thing.
When you lock it down as much as they do, you lose individuality at the sake of making sure degenerates are caged up.
Except Japan is still full of antisocial whack jobs, so idk if there’s a fair balance where you can toss stones at the freaks but also not get smited just for $3 of coffee
I'm honestly not sure what that means. It reminds me of the arguments in the 2000s against school uniforms in the US. Nobody could explain to me how wearing certain clothes a few hours a day was restrictive or what personal individuality was lost. I know they lean more collectivist there but that's cultural not because anything is locked down.
the US had it made at one point. Most of our cities were clean, murder rates were low, drug use was highly stigmatized and therefore underground, our productivity was high, and so was the quality of our exports.
of course, it's not like that now, but it does show that it can be done withoutsacrificing the rights of the individual.
I think most people are aware Japan has it's own share of problems, especially in major cities where the work culture and conformity are at their maximum, but what people find refreshing is that these are an entirely different set of problems from our own.
More and More, Japan's problems seem relatively quaint and managable on the grand scale. There's always a chance that a decade of good governance could right the ship, and deal with the worst of it.
In comparison, people are losing hope that the west can be fixed at all. For many, destruction of western culture seems immanent. I'm not that black pilled, but I can see where they are coming from. In any case, it would probably take more than a decade to resolve the issues we find ourselves mired in.
(Unless this all ends in fire, that can fix issues astonishingly fast. However, that's an even more undesirable solution for most.)
Yep I'd rather have a Japanese lady at 7-11 be fake polite to me than some rude Indian guy trying to overcharge me on an out of date product and then having a group of teens outside the store ask "you wanna get fuckin smashed eh cunt?"
I really miss how the west (or at least NZ where I grew up) used to be 20+ years ago. At that time I'd say it was superior to Japan. But right now it's fucked. Not sure if its salvageable.
You can reverse almost anything except demographic replacement. Which is why they are using demographic replacement.
Not unique to Japan, either. A significant percentage of the western population in Korea lives in Seoul and frequents these same kind of bubbles. I knew Westerners who lived in Korea for years who couldn't read basic Korean, which is sad because it takes about 15 minutes to learn.
But I do think Japan is easy to navigate as a tourist if you pack your humility. I've fucked up numerous times myself, including walking into a hotel lobby with my shoes on. The reaction to that transgression was severe - imagine one of those record-scratch moments in a movie - but was quickly moved past by listening.
This also helped me out quite a bit when my wife's lab brought in a Japanese postdoc. We helped his family navigate US society a bit and we made some lifelong friends out of the deal.
Of all my international friendships, my Japanese friends are the most rock-solid.
we used to have manners (social norms), culture, and a functioning society in the USA too. step out of line and you were kicked out of your community. it worked.
All true. Working for a Japanese company would be hell. I doubt I could endure it. Im lucky enough to work remote.
In regards to martial arts. This might not be a common experience but the kendo clubs I train at here are much more relaxed about manners and other formalities than in the western clubs Ive been to. More physically demanding and more skilled, but just sloppy with manners. Not what I had expected. Being a forigner, at first they do offer you a lot of opportunities to be held to a lower standard. Decline those offers.
Its a good way to quickly make real friends. Theres a lot of value in shared suffering.
'Deference to your superior' is a real thing and very interesting to see in action.
God help you if you, say, run a training camp without permission or at the same time as someone else higher ranked than you are. You will get in some hot water and you will be apologizing. In writing.
I've seen this happen. My own sensei won't have class if there's a training camp going on, specifically because of that. There's an arguably valid reason behind said action, mind, but it's fascinating to actually experience it.
It reminds me of that TNG episode where that one planet was going to execute Wil Wheaton because he fell on some of their flowers. LOL.
On one hand, losing your retirement over semi-stealing coffee seems a bit too much, but on the other, if a system ends up making it so that we don't have to deal with the douchebaggery of Wil "The Douche" Wheaton? Eh, maybe it's not all bad.
All i know is that if i wanted to sell second hard mtg cards to stores in japan i needed to give them my identification and address. And this was 20 years ago. I always thought that was a bit insane
He didn't miss the trashcan though. I don't know why we have to misrepresent what he did. He committed petty theft several times. We can argue whether that's worthy of firing him and taking his retirement payment, but let's at least be honest about the facts.
The crime was theft, not littering or jaywalking. Missing the trashcan is only littering if you leave it there, and jaywalking does not deprive or defraud a business owner. Why bother listing other crimes rather than the one committed? He committed petty theft.
I'm in the US and my office specifically lists theft of office supplies as a workplace violation, which can become a fireable offense. If having a reputation as a thief degrades the reputation of the school and its ability to interact with parents, then he has to deal with how the school and teaching board decide to handle his crime.
I think it's far more unhinged to "guarantee" employment or licensing.
How many pencils can I steal before being fired? How much reputational damage can I cause while remaining employed? You're clearly advocating for guaranteed employment if you say one should never be fired for such things.
Your attitude reminds me of Office Space and how someone can rationalize theft.
A thief should certainly be punished. The severity should be based on impact of the crime among other factors, which go far beyond money value of the stolen item. Social degradation and loss of a high trust society can cause far more economic damage even if it's just a cup of coffee. Cutting in line hurts efficiency despite having no nominal economic value.
For Japanese schools, the reputational damage could cause them to close. If that's the case, why not fire him? I'm not the business, so I can't decide on their behalf, I don't know their business situation. Should a McDonald's fire an employee for flicking a booger into a burger?
Personally, I don't think he should lose his retirement pay, but I'm not aware of Japanese social and business dynamics nor am I arrogant enough to say whether that was the right choice for them.
I'll say it again: Should a McDonald's fire an employee for flicking a booger into a burger? Maybe in India, they could get away with it. Maybe in America, they would have to fire that employee. Different consequences for different societies.
i mean... this was maybe a little excessive...
This is what enforces social cohesion though it does have consequences in mass conformity.
I know when everyone was wearing masks, when it was no longer enforced people were so used to wearing them that it took MONTHS to ditch them, anecdotally I heard from some it took the one guy to not wear theirs, then you'd have few looking around seeing they weren't in trouble then the next bravest would take theirs off and begin a chain reaction.
On the flip side though, it does make it a bureaucratic hell hole at times, try opening a bank there to understand what I mean..
It starts with cutting in line. When people are guilted into thinking "No big deal, it only happens once in a while", they are surprised to see the behavior propagate and subsequently ask "Why is everyone cutting in line now? What happened to manners?"
I think arguing for the appropriate punishment makes sense, but the "not a big deal" attitude is how society devolves. People didn't just spontaneously develop customs and norms. Certain pressures existed to create them.
might be more to this story than what they are telling everyone
this seems like a, "he was doing something quite terrible but we don't want it getting out to the public or overseas because it was quite bad and would cause us to lose face", kind of situation. which is common with crime in Japan and other parts of the East.
Hell it happens in the US, like with Cuomo killing hundreds of elderly people and only being removed for sexual harassment.
The equivalent in the USA is a bunch of blacks chimping-out in a McDonard's, trashing the place and damaging the equipment, and none of them are held accountable.
Invited to be a special advisor in the whitehouse or given a spot on msnbc
The retirement pay i feel is a bit too brutal.
It is theft. Of a small amount, sure, but still theft.
A company giving you a Large because they ran out of Small cups, that's a bonus from them. But taking one yourself without permission, is stealing. "But it's 50 cents!" If a person went into a grocer's, and as a morning ritual, stole a KitKat, not because they were starving or broke, but just because they don't feel awake enough without shoplifting a chocolate bar every single morning... It's less than a dollar, but there's still something pretty important going wrong there, that isn't in line with the views of the company or society.
People sometimes get fired if their company finds out they've cheated on their spouse too. I have mixed feelings about it.
Ethnically homogeneous people problems
Japan has insanely strict laws, and in some cases it could be easy to suggest it's very much over the top. However. Japan also does NOT have an issue with prison overcrowding.
As per usual, if it's not strict, overzealous laws that cause prison overcrowding, what is it? And the vast majority here already know that answer, but people not paying attention need to be asked in that way because they instinctively reject uncomfortable truths. They need to stumble upon the answer themselves.