I remember a few years ago, religious conservatives and social (i.e. not religious) conservatives seemed to be in agreement on countless issues. Hell, I remember having numerous religious conservatives approve of me saying that I may be a non-believer, but I would defend their right to worship how they chose, because we agreed on the important things. They shared the same views, they would just come at them from a different starting point (religious conservatives would come at it from the starting point of their faith, societal conservatives would come at it from a starting point of their own sense of right and wrong). But in the past few months I've noticed that religious conservatives have taken to attacking anyone--conservative, republican, or otherwise--who doesn't share their belief system and/or religion. I don't really understand this, as the only thing it's doing is driving people away from the conservative/republican side, and pushing them into either just abstaining from voting, or refusing to participate in any political discourse, which won't exactly solve problems, as we need every person that we can get to defend our society against the degenerates that are trying to destroy it.
Did Trump "losing" in 2020 really fracture the right that badly? I'm not sure that's the case, because this is something that I've only really seen come to the forefront in the past year or so.
I don't know what to make of it. It's honestly beginning to seem like some people on the right are laser focused on becoming the weird puritans of the 90s who were mocked to no end and did more harm to conservative values than they did to further them.
And before anyone accuses me of saying that religious people should embrace atheism or give up their own faith, that's not what I'm getting at at all. I'm merely saying that if we want conservative values and common sense to come back to society, we need to fight for that and not fight each other. If there needs to be any bickering between different "factions" on the right, I think we'd all be better off if we did that after the psychotic leftists are removed from the picture.
There seems to be this crazy purity spiral that's forming on the right, and I'm afraid that what's going to happen is that we're going to all become so focused on our own particular brand of conservatism that we're going to lose sight of the big picture, and we're going to end up losing our society to radical leftists.
I'm still dead set on fighting against the degenerate leftists in society. I don't foresee myself leaving this fight anytime soon, mainly because I don't need anyone's approval to stand up for the things that I believe in. But not everyone is like me, and if we drive those people away, we're never going to win another election, after all a vote is a vote. And then it doesn't matter if you were a religious conservative or societal conservative, your values are going to vanish from our society just like every other conservative/Republican's values.
It's because people are adapting to the current situation. Many conservatives used to be fairly libertarian in mindset where the belief was you do your own thing and they do theirs as long as everyone is free to do as they like. It has become obvious this doesn't work though and only can exist as a transitional period before some ideology starts to force itself on the other such as what we're seeing with the left and their woke-ism. Many religious conservatives see their religion as the solution to the problems we face today and see atheism as the reason things are so bad.
Ever read Dostoevsky? Specifically, his book Demons? Much has been said on it but an interpretation is that atheism is what leads to decadence. In short, the concept of God provides an ideal for people to strive toward and when you remove that ideal people no longer strive for anything and the nihilism that takes over leads to degradation. Many conservatives of the religious kind are turning to religion as a solution to the problems and truly believe this sort of idea that atheists are in fact the problem with society for this very reason.
I think you're a bit harsh on the religious conservatives because most are just trying to find something good to cling onto and believe in so that they feel there is a solution to the problems today. If the way the religious people won't accept you is what turns you away from "conservatism" then you don't have very good beliefs in the first place. If you aren't prepared to believe your beliefs no matter whether anyone accepts you for them or not then you need to rethink your beliefs. They are either the truth or not. Leftists are good at believing whatever they're told for social justice points. You don't want to be like them, do you? If your beliefs can be bought through induction into some social circle then you don't really have any beliefs. You're a mercenary willing to lend support toward whichever beliefs supposedly give you the most social acceptance. That's how many boys end up chopping off their penises.
I think that right there hits the nail on the head. Tired of compromising their values, they are asserting their view instead of capitulating to the left who aren't willing to do the same for them. "Conservatives" who just identify as not-left are part of the problem- see "right-wing porn stars".
We've shifted so far left, they think libertarianism is conservatism
I like this argument that you just wrote a lot because it cleanly cuts to the very core of the matter, arguing from the point of their own values and presuppositions.
'so what?'
What wave are you talking about? And where exactly? As far as I can see, religious conservatives are more accommodating than ever, while their values are being accommodated less than ever.
I agree with you that it's stupid to needlessly antagonize people. Everyone is a potential recruit. And to expend effort to alienate people from your side is just insanity.
I see it a lot from conservative/republican FB pages. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. In my defense in that regard however, I will say that it's incredibly difficult to find republicans/conservative news with a non-religious bent.
Are they against conservatives/ republican or simply unapologetically Christian?
It has nothing to do with "non religious", and has everything to do with the right finally being tired of the kind of people who put political expediency above moral governance.
If you aren't civilization > civility, then you're fake right.
The problem with putting political expediency so low beneath moral governance is that, if you end up losing all of your political power, your morality is eventually outlawed and censored by the winners. I'm not going to sit here and argue that moral governance has no place within republicanism, that would be an incredibly silly viewpoint to have, but you have to understand that you could be the most moral person in the world...if the entire government is run by leftists who hate you, then all the morality in the entire universe won't stop them from destroying your way of life and your family and your friends. Being morally righteous and morally correct won't stop leftist perverts from pumping children full of hormones, or cutting the breasts off of teenage girls, or erasing every last bit of our history. We don't have to be on opposite sides simply because you go to church and I don't. As long as we're both trying to stop these perverted psychos on the extreme left, we should look at one another as brothers in arms.
Every major failure of the right in the past century, has been allowing a moral failure, thus giving the left more ground in the long term.
Take the Reagan amnesty for example. Had he done the morally correct thing and not compromised with communists, the United States would have about fifty million less Mexicans in it right now, nevermind all the present day illegals who came here hoping for another one.
Every time you compromise with the left, you sacrifice a chunk of the future. Your supposed scenario of losing? Already taking place. Christianity is outlawed in all but name, because you can't actually practice it without bumping into a dozen different "hate speech" laws.
Atheism/ agnosticism was thrust into the default state of government under Obama. You can see the results of this around the same time as the “atheist golden age” on the internet, the simple fact of the matter is young, stupid atheists and color revolutions go hand in hand. Even in your own writing you place yourself as a victim, provide no sourcing other than your feelings and go hurr durr 90s conservatives, when it was Tipper Gore who made the explicit lyrics warning label, the left who censored South Park over displaying Mohammed, and on and on. Your sad alternative reality is exactly why you’re not getting it, grow up.
I'm not a victim here my dude, I'm merely writing from my own viewpoint. And I'm mainly talking about groups like 90s/early 2000s era Fox News and their likely viewers, the types who cried and had meltdowns over DOOM, or Mass Effect's romances and nudity.
Believe me, I know that Tipper and the PMRC were a scourge upon society, and I'm not exempting them, I'm merely saying that overly conservative types in the 90s were an issue too, and not exactly people we should be trying to emulate.
EDIT - Also, what do you mean by "grow up"? I'm not attacking anyone for their faith, and I don't begrudge anyone for their faith. As a matter of fact, I wholeheartedly support people having religion. It's just not something for me, it hasn't been for years upon years. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you're stupid or that you are wasting your time. I'm not some Reddit-tier atheist with a fedora. It's not my place to begrudge your faith or attack it, that's not what this country is about, we have the right to freedom of religion and that applies to all of us. I understand that our society is built upon Christian values, and I have no problem with that. I'm not going to sit here and argue that our founding fathers weren't Christian or some stupid shit like that, I literally just believe that the Christian faith--ANY faith--isn't for me. You're free to worship how you want, and I will defend you for exercising that right.
Considering all the forced gayness in games now, they had a point, it took less than ten years for the left to turn everything to shit, the “slippery slope” was a slippery dead drop.
Again under what basis ? Having stable communities? Not wanting their children exposed to sex and drugs on television or in games? Can you name one thing about the social environment today that is better than the “conservative environment” of the 90s/ early 2000s?
All I'm saying is that a lot of the conservative Christians of the '90s were arguing for the exact same kind of weird censorship that so-called progressives on the left are arguing for today. If the end goal is the same, it really doesn't matter where you're starting point is. I don't stand for censorship from either side, I never have and I never will. Censorship only breeds an underground, "black market" alternative. I remember hearing that GoldenEye 007, of all games, should be banned because it was too "realistic" in it's depictions of violence. Again, I'm not saying that ultra conservatives of the '90s were worse than what the left is today. All I'm saying is that they were almost identical to todays far leftists and their calls for censorship.
So, to answer your second point there...no I can't say that there's anything better about society today, but I can say that it's almost the exact same bullshit, just from a different side. That's my whole point. We shouldn't be seeking to emulate the morons on the left who want to be purity police.
You know, that's a valid point and I get what you're saying. I suppose I should say "We need to not try and become what the media made us out to be in the 90s."
Funny, because I remember Hillary Clinton and Tipper Gore coming within a hair's breadth of getting videogames federally regulated and modding effectively banned nationwide.
And the left of the 90s, the key difference is how conservatives changed when access to information was freed up, and how the left regressed further. If you remember the early 90s the reason game like golden eye were vilified was to take the blame off single mothers raising an unprecedented wave of violent felons. Just as when the left tried to pretend the violent crime rate problem was reduced by abortion…
The 90s really were a weird time for both sides if we're being entirely honest. I think both sides went through a bit of growing pains, and I really truly believe that conservatives/republicans came out as the better group because of that said weirdness. The left, they learned the lesson that moral outrage = power, regardless of whether or not said moral outrage was correct or justified.
I just remember reading a ton of articles regarding the 2016 election, where a ton of Trump supporters said that they voted for him because the left "left them behind", so they found a new home with Republicans and conservatives. I really don't want to see that happen to the right, where we have a bunch of people leave this side of the political aisle because they feel like they're being left behind and vilified for stuff that they may not even believe. I'm not saying you should capitulate to people that don't share your beliefs, and I'm not saying you should give up your beliefs. I'm just saying that it's really stupid to drive away people who might help you vote politicians into office who will enact laws that reflect your values.
Without having analyzed your suggestion in depth, the obvious answer is that more religious types - those who have now come to accept/understand the faith of our fathers - resent the irreligious for allowing wokism to infect our lives and become the new religion of the West.
Can you provide some examples? Because while I could theoretically see it as a possibility (leading to my guess above) I haven't personally seen a lot of that. You'll get a few anons here doing it but that's not representative of anything.
What I have seen is that both "extreme ends" of the ideological spectrum have become more vocal in their respective spaces. This happens when common "public square" discussion areas are no longer allowed because the left banned anyone who smells like a right-winger from mainstream sites.
I don't see how the 2020 election affected conservatives, Republicans, or the Right much at all except perhaps greater despair or anger among some of his supporters. The same Republicans who were against Trump in 2016 are against him now. Nobody around here was surprised by that.
Trump himself actually embraced religion more than ever in the 2020 campaign, aligning with the Catholics and calling himself the strongest opponent to abortion among any presidential candidate ever.
tl;dr "I'm gay, stop being mean to faggots."
No.
Pretty sure you have the OP confused with someone else. Think it was "blackwaterodysee", who deleted his account after his last bout of ranting was mocked and rejected.
Does anyone who isn't a homo or homo sympathizer or communist complain about religion? And by religion they always mean Christianity.
It is just another subversive tactic used to corrode Western civilization.
Some people just don't find religion especially inspiring, regardless of their lifestyle preferences, no matter the denomination or source.
I've encountered missionaries trying to push Hindu religious teachings that sounded absurdly deranged, dogmatic Muslims who get pissy over the most inane things, and people of various Christian denominations, some who are just fine and chill while other individuals are a bit too quirky for my taste. I've also met some utterly hostile, ignorant, and oblivious atheists, and I've met others who are just fine and keep to themselves.
Not that I make a habit of complaining, but I am certainly not immune to being annoyed. A sufficient amount of annoyance can lead to some understandable venting or complaining.
And it takes a sober mind to recognize that it's not necessarily that religion itself is the problem, but individual people who choose to be weird, rude, controlling, and annoying, regardless of whether they're religious or not. And if it wasn't already clear, this is not a jab at anyone who's religious, but towards annoying people no matter their beliefs.
If you say so chief.
they're tired of cucks taking all the air out of the room and letting everything go to shit.
We're being punished by God for falling away from Him. I'm not sorry to say the non-religious are part of the problem. As are any religious who tolerate them as they are.
Here specifically we did have an obnoxious halfwit atheist/troll come and start spamming smug and retarded "religious dumdums are the worst, amirite?" argument selfposts off and on for a few months.
That probably got a lot of people's hackles up. And he was so bad at arguing his positions that probably at least a few people came to view all of atheism as more retarded by association. Hopefully the sour grapes will pass, thankfully everyone told him to STFU enough that he got the message. Everyone needs to make sure they clean their own wheelhouse occasionally, lest people start paying more attention to the trash around you than your own stated values.
Was that the gay black dude who was griping at all the "mean" comments about gay people? The one who was so laughably clueless and mentally handicapped that no one on, well, any side, could take him seriously?
Not sure anyone would've taken him as a serious poster child for any particular ideology or point of view since he was so entirely unhinged.
Don't think they're the same guy, I only vaguely recall someone pulling that "guuuuys, leave the gays alone" and can't remember who it was.
This guy was blackwaterodysee and he deleted his account when he finally bitched out. So I can't check if they're the same, but here's an archive of his particular brand of retardation
Yup, that's exactly the guy I was thinking of. I noticed he deleted his account a few weeks ago when I wanted to reread one of those last threads he posted. Almost positive it's the same guy I was referring to since I had the url to his profile in my recent history, and the name sounded rather familiar.
Election season gets closer, obviously you want to drive a wedge into the party if you're the opposition.
I think there are multiple things going on.
There's always been a strong Christian presence on the right.
Liberalism's inability to resolve crisis since the 2nd Iraq War and housing collapse has created disillusionment and a rebirth of illiberal(ish) religiosity.
The continued march of the LGBTP agenda into children's lives has repudiated the libertarian "don't care what people do in their bedroom's stance."
The Qtard movement has promoted a dispensationalist mindset.
And finally, gayops will prey upon all of this to cause infighting.
I followed everything except the Qtard bit. Can you elaborate?
The Qtardation has a strong parallel with dispensationalist Christianity. God (Trump) has a plan (that you must trust), and we are progressing toward some End Time (Trump defeating the Deep State or something). There are different phases of the plan, and of course, the prophecies are always changing to line of with current events. Once even fairly secular people adopt this nutty way of thinking, it opens them up to increased religiosity.
Thanks for the reply.
I see, and agree, with what you're saying, but I don't know if you're describing "dispensationalism" necessarily compared just illiterate American Protestant premillenialism. The whole idea of dispensationalism is that God changes (a heresy, by the way) the way He interacts with the world in different eras. I don't see what Trumps "eras" would be, besides "in charge, in office" and "in charge, in jail."
I guess maybe I don't know enough about Q shit, maybe there's more. I don't particularly care to learn.
Don't try to learn about it. It will only make you dumber.
COINTELPRO. Anyway...
Only the left understands not punching your own side. Not saying we should excuse bullshit, but it's interesting that the ones with purity tests are still able to move as a unit to push communism despite differences. If we did, this tactic to fracture the right wouldn't occur because it wouldn't exist.
There's always been an underlying schism between differing ideologies. Even when there's some political commonality, you can't always assume people are going to choose to get along.
Frankly, this is where I at least feel I can fall back on the Constitution as a guiding line for how to achieve some semblance of balance in spite of these oppositional views. Unfortunately there are some (most of which are on the left), who choose to totally disregard any such balance the Constitution can offer and seek to push their own agenda.
I think people in general are just more on edge and resentful, and more extreme or absolute views are being held, in part because people are tired of not getting their way.
And it's not all, as others have mentioned. There are a few people from various groups, including religious conservatives, who are being extremist dicks and smearing everyone else by association. This effect is then amplified by things like the internet and social media. It's kind of hip to be extreme.
And I get why they embrace it, even though I don't agree. Tolerance hasn't gotten us (collectively 'us' not specifically religious conservatives) anywhere, and has just let our enemies stomp on us for decades, and increasingly hard. So I get the frustration, even if I personally think the extremism isn't helpful.