I'm trying to navigate this hellscape of a dating scene- bisexual girl over here, feminist over there... And I can really empathize with them, even though I view the world politically very differently than they do. Thought I might share that view with you all at KIA2.
One suggested I read Roxanne Gay's Bad Feminist, and I opted to at least listen to a summary of the book. And my mind makes connections.
"Reality TV...Rock of Love, relationships defined by flowing alcohol, forced Interactions, vicious conflict, stripper poles..." I don't know about stripper poles, but my brother- Christian, right-wing, 8 years in military+now going to law school- checks all the other boxes. Drinks too much, loves strife and brings it home to his (direct and extended) family, so forceful and insistent on having everything exactly the way he wants, with zero considerations to the wants and needs of others, that on his bookshelf he even has a book titled, "The Little Book on Getting Your Way".
And then..."Rape Culture- Men's Agression and Violence Normalized." I've watched my brother have to apologize to his wife for throwing things... 10 years ago, I watched him punch holes in walls and break down doors in his anger towards me. I've watched him not care for his wife or kids- he got two daughters, but he really wanted a son. He had sex out of wedlock at least once with a girl other than his current wife...But I would guess his actual body count was more than just two. And then, when our father died, he got so drunk he was flirting with other women, as a married man.
And so, I can't help but wonder if it's not """Christian""", right-wing men like my brother driving the feminist movement forward.
I start to see the current political landscape from the lens of men vs. women, with externalizers wrongfully lashing out in anger and impulsively acting on selfish desires, and internalizers, also wrongfully, deeply resenting and seeking vengeance for the harm those externalizers have caused.
And I wonder how we could ever sort out our differences- how to find the third path forward, where, even with greater emotional maturity on the part of both men and women (no externalizing or internalizing), men are seeking wedlock / family / stay-at-home mom's / etc., whereas women are seeking sexual freedom / abortion / homosexuality / one-night stands / etc. How could those differences ever be worked out, without trying to mold others to our liking, without trying to manipulate or control or deceive? (I can imagine someone commenting that women are more malleable... I'm against manipulative, controlling behaviors regardless. Neuro-Linguistic Programming and the like are a scam.)
I'm Christian. And Right-Wing. But I'm not my brother. I don't drink. I haven't been punching holes in walls in fits of rage. I haven't had sex and don't intend to until I get married. I just want to find a wife and start a family.
Where is the path forward, how are Christian, right-wing men to make it through this world, when so many other men also call themselves Christian as they cause destruction and strife and chaos in their wake? Where is the path forward when women have come to hate all that could be good for them- God, men, marriage, family, children, etc.- and love all that will likely be bad for them- abortion, sex out of wedlock, career, LGBT, etc...?
Just a lost soul trying to find his way. Thanks for reading.
Welcome to the dating scene created by lack of male role models, false female idols promoting a 'you can have it all' attitude and not acknowledging biological deadlines, an instant hook up sex gratification culture and a refusal to leave a self focused vision for a family oriented ironically more socialist position (it only works in family units only).
Those of us not part of this have to wade through the sea of bullshit to find someone similar. The only reason I see some more success within religion is they still have some of the old school connections to matchmake that bypasses the bullshit. If you don't have that you try for the few sane left, I'm atheist and I'd pick a deeply religious woman over ANY of those still in this mindset so long as for kids 1. No religious body changes 2. Free choice of religion or non religious. Those two can REALLY cut down your options.
Other than meeting through hobbies (which is getting increasingly compromised thanks to the left) there is little options as you can't meet through work anymore thanks to HR departments and that's how A LOT of long term couples formed, bars and clubs....you really want the kind of girl plastered drunk in a short dress on a Friday as it's a 'fun time' and it's made worse by media organisations repeating the message 'it's not women's fault they aren't getting boyfriends, men have to try harder'. Then you have the weird messaging I'm hearing more of women EXPECTING a man to be cheating to be a successful option, just wtf?
As you pointed out, boomer ls are making things worse posting online about a dating scene they have no clue about and was caused by their previous lifestyles. I don't know, this is a world where you're more likely to find a good partner on online games or at least, smarter not accounts.
I like what you've said hear about grace- I really do love these girls in my life even though we have view things so differently.
My brother, well...That's a tough one. He has taken hundreds of thousands of dollars from me, taken access to his grandkids away from our mother...Our stepfather reached out to a Christian family therapist, but he refuses to go, and he is no longer allowing my brother in his house because it seems to him that family is not important to my brother. The situation is hardly even in my hands at this point, but I watched him punch holes in my father's house, I've watched him repeatedly bring strife into my stepfather's house... I may go by the Proverb of chasing the strife out along with the fool when it comes to him and my own house.
I met these girls through my hobbies, but...well, they're as I described. But who knows, maybe we can talk through things, or maybe I can meet someone else out there some day...
it sounds like he needs his ass kicked
Your brother seems very un-Christian but things are rarely one-sided, why does he not like your stepfather? Why is he keeping the kids away from your mom?
This is a suicidal mentality. If your life today sucks or is unfulfilling, change it. You have the power.
If you die in Heaven, but lived a life free from sin there despite no impetus requiring you to, do you go to double-heaven?
"We can't expect God to do all the work."
I’m praying for you. All I can say is stick to your principles
Thank you, Smith. I'll keep trying.
For you, I'd say look at church. Assuming it's not a woke church. You have to go to places and do things that naturally gatekeep lefties. It's tough. You're looking for a needle in a haystack. I hope you're young though, because I do think there's still a lot more needles to find. If you live in a big city, you're going to have to seek women outside the city most likely. Then it will be tough, because you're the new city boy in a small town.
I have all but given up on bothering because the older you get the more and more retreads with more and more problems there are. Honestly, if I were to date today I'd probably get up and leave from 75% of the dates in 15 minutes. They say they are bisexual, I'm gone on the spot. Not wasting my time. Batshit crazy indoctrinated women are going to bash you after the fact no matter what anyway.
Never understood men that don't care for their family really. It seems like it's supposed to be instinct to me, but apparently not. I mean I don't have any kids but I'd kill you if you messed with my cousin's kid or my nephews, they are the closest I've got. Maybe the wife makes the whole deal so insufferable that it turns them off of it? Who knows, speculation at best.
I also hate how every social activity revolves around nothing but drinking. I moved to a different state in my mid-20s and it took me forever to build up a friend group, because everything was just "lets go to alcohol selling place and get plastered!" Not fun in the slightest. Most of my friends are family people, but it works out. Yeah I've had to get used to some annoying kids and occasionally suffer through some sort of kid-themed thing, but the package as a whole is way better than "lets meet at the bar, drink, go to the club, drink some more, pass out and wake up with who knows what the hell in our bed". Some of my friends kids have grown up to their 20s now and they are my friends now too.
29...Might not be young enough. And yeah, it feels like I'm looking for a unicorn that doesn't exist- Either I go to church and meet a vaccinated girl with myocarditis...(or just don't really get to know anyone at all there because, you know, we're listening to sermons instead of talking to each other), or I go dancing and meet a feminist, or I hop on VR and meet a bisexual. Everywhere I go the girls seem to be captured by leftists in some shape or form, even churches.
Well I've got more than 10 years on you. So there's that. Don't let someone convince you to quit on their terms that's just something you will regret.
Bear in mind too, all women are going to lean much more left than men. Even ones I know that seem to be good women lean left.
You can definitely still pull at 29 my dude. I'm much older than you and my wife is in her 20s. Trust me, women really don't care about age.
Another thing to keep in mind I guess is that there's probably a fair number of women who are in the same boat, and don't know where the hell they can find some good fishing either.
Just a thought that occurs to me, but maybe try to approach the general goal from a different perspective. Put an emphasis on just meeting people in different walks of life every so often, in different environments. Don't do it with any pressure or specific objectives in mind other than to experience life in new and different ways or something. And in turn, you might end up meeting someone who's at a similar place in life and isn't half-bad.
I think as gamers (for which I assume a good number of people here are), it's easy to get stuck in an objective focused mindset of how to approach things, rather than just experiencing things as they come and seeking out experiences for their own sake.
And I know it sounds pretty vague and hokey. But I guess given the sheer "RNG", there's a better chance at catching something worthwhile by traveling and exploring in wider patterns. (And no, I'm not even remotely suggesting that you or anyone else should start steering into leftist hives or anything like that)
You sound a bit like me, I'm not against drinking or anything at all especially in a party setting. However I'm just not that big of a drinker, there are quite a few things I've realised about myself where I understand why I just can't gel with the normies at all. Even when I was younger it didn't really work except for the few that actually got to know me, they all liked fucking pop music and drinking culture. I just couldn't force myself to like all of that.
The joke is now that because pop music will have gone completely woke and night clubs and pubs are probably going to be shutting left and right even those guys are going to have nothing real to do with their time.
I'm thinking of going to somewhere like Budapest for a holiday to see how the other side lives since I've heard so much about Hungary being a based country. Might be a good thing for me and maybe I can find some non-woke night clubs perhaps to hang out in a bit and see if I can chat to people. Social mobility is definitely a factor, I myself have been fucked due to geography when it comes to meeting people RL so I'm kind of focused on just getting rich etc. so I can afford to do all the stuff I've got planned.
Unless I stumble across some non-woke British girl who happens to be totally hot I know just based on mathematical probability I'm better off exploring other countries for awhile and getting out of my comfort zone.
I never feel as much old codger until the topic gets to music. I mean, I have a pretty open category of music I like, going from blues and soul from my grandparents era to recent rock music. This pop stuff now though. Like is literally every song deranged and degenerate? The amount of times I've had to ask my cousin (the one teenager I really interact with), "what the hell is that you are listening to?" is mindblowing. Even the 20 something friends I have aren't that crazy.
I was supposed to go to eastern Europe in 2020, that didn't work out. I'm going to retry it some day. Didn't have Hungary on that trip, but a lot of the surrounding areas, Czech, Slovakia, parts of Poland, etc. I didn't hate the nordics the times I've been there, they will leave you alone but they are more woke in mindset. Would be impossible to pick up women there though with their social habits.
Budapest is a westernized liberal shithole like every other capital, you're not going to find anything you wouldn't in London. Maybe some jokes about gypsies but that's about it. Some of the architecture downtown is really nice, but you're probably looking in the wrong place if you're heading to a nightclub.
I second drinking less. It's not always easy because you have to turn down a lot of social interactions, but it's worth it in the long run. Americans and many other Westerners drink way too much.
Promiscuity peaked with the boomers. Nowadays, lack of romance and social life more generally are bigger problems.
were you and your brother raised by a single mother? how many of your teachers in school where men? look around. how many successful male role models do you see that aren't spewing feminist propaganda?
honestly, you seem like a feminist. one of their favorite tactics to avoid responsibility and consequences is Blame The Nearest Man. Which is a summary of your entire post.
That's the number one place I run to when it comes to raising boys. Little to no male influence. I was a weird quiet little anxious kid when I was young. Honestly, I feel like I owe 90% of the reason I'm a functioning person with a life and not drugged up to have one to male influences.
If I were to list out top influences on me as a kid outside of family I remember my dad's boss, my grandfather's friends, some of my dad's friends, etc. that took the time out of their day to take a bit of an interest in the weird little boy. I mean think about it who am I to draw influence from, the female teachers that treated me like a freak or a problem half the time, or the successful male business owner that treated me with respect?
It's part of the reason I put so much effort with the boys in my family. They all have fathers around, but I want them to have other good male influence as well. There are a lot of women and not a ton of men in my family. My own mother will go on about "it's weird" because I'll spend half a day with one the boy that lives in the same town whenever I come to visit her. I've had the argument with her about male influence too, it just pisses her off. Apparently to her I'd have totally been the same person if she was a single mom and it was just women around.
Unfortunately there's no straightforward universal answer to this and to coin a corny catch phrase "Everyone's different". You have one advantage to you though that most people don't have in this dating scene and you are picking up on the huge amount of negativity and outright abuse people are heaping on each other when it comes to either gender and you understand where the attitudes are coming from.
I'm not religious at all, but I see the exact same thing you have and I'd like to be able to start a family too. Awhile back as a bit of a challenge to myself I went on tinder and other dating sites to see if I could even talk to some actual women. 99% percent of them are bots actually, it was remarkable how many spammers I was getting, so that alone was depressing enough. However looking at the profiles that even seemed to be made by human beings. The women didn't actually write a lot about themselves but about all of the negative things they'd seen in men and the men they were 'not' looking for.
Absolutely nothing about their background of course or any kind of hobbies. Which is what's partly lead me to believe they don't have any and they're covering it up because understandably it would be a point of embarrassment for them. When I did end up finding one or two to talk to most of them had nothing to say and it was spammers pretending to be human beings that ironically did the most convincing impressions of a woman with actual interests.
I did kind of point my weaponised autism at this one and this is why I know so much. As for the whole women vs men thing yes exactly. These women have clearly have sometimes had bad experiences in life, which is why on the left especially if you find that the worse man haters are often women who have surrounded themselves with pretty awful men most of their lives and they blame the right for it. Same deal with men of course having dealt with awful women in their lives. Except they've identified more accurately where the problem lies instead of allowing themselves to be taken advantage of by idealogues the way women have.
My sympathy with leftist women completely vanishes of course when they completely buy into the bullshit they've been sold and go out of their way to ruin men's lives because of what's happened to them when in the same breath they'd hate on all the manosphere movements for doing the same thing with their typical double standards.
As for solutions? Hobbies is my main advocacy, however, we can't have hobbies as long as SJWs keep infiltrating them and ruining any interaction between men and women. We need to drive them out and make sure they never come back. That way then local or online groups can start forming and social relationships can form without them ruining everything with drama constantly.
By the way, another great example of what you describe is like when you have anti-Christian boomers posting online. They clearly had an upbringing in a religious family that was pretty fucked and you can see how they came to their conclusions. Meanwhile of course, they have a blind spot to everything else.
What to do when the SJWs and the women are one and the same...? When the women I find in the hobbies I pursue are already capture by the idealogues...? I recall Galatians 6:1 - restoring someone who has done wrong in a spirit of gentleness. I think it might be a very difficult thing to do- to not control, nor manipulate, to not critize or condemn or drive out, but gently work through the difficult conversations together somehow... But I think the hardest things to do may tend to be the most rewarding, too.
It goes back to my ranting about forming our own groups and gatekeeping the fuck out of the normies because they're often the ones who open the gates for SJWs. People who actually enjoy the hobby and fit in can stay regardless of who they are.
I mean I fucking love as well how a recent example of this showed itself with some normie trying to comment on chainsaw man and trying to claim men's takes on it were problematic, you tell those types of people to fuck off. We've got to learn how to build our own shit again and stop relying on other people.
The guy on this site who decided to go and make his own non-woke mod hub is a great example of this. You don't have to be overtly anti-SJW or anything, just gatekeep them.
Yes exactly, it hits you like a ton of bricks when you realise, also explains why these very same women massively overshare on social media about their private lives. It's the tech equivalent of gossiping except now women have made this shit go global which is why it's such cancer. Instead of it being just a gaggle of chatty women in a bar somewhere you now have women from different cities sharing shit amongst themselves with sometimes pretty fucked up consequences.
I couldn't really understand this about women initially precisely because I'm lucky enough that I do actually have real hobbies and interests, but it does explain as well why I can't gel with them and other normies. Genuinely can't understand how people do this 9 - 5 lifestyle and then go out drinking each weekend it sounds boring as fuck but of course maybe they'd claim the exact same about what I do.
Atrazine in the water, soy in the bread, and mystery vaccines.
Pregnant women drink, eat, and are injected with these poisons.
Their children were subjected to this in the womb.
The rise of degeneracy in the youth was a deliberate attack on society.
I'm going to give you some harsh reality instead that really helped me...
If a perfect Christian virgin housewife did exist, why the fuck would she want you?
From what you describe above what you bring to the table is "won't beat her up". That's pretty low tier.
Instead of moping that you can't find a unicorn, become the man the unicorn will seek out. Don't be the moth, be the flame.
That is an excellent line.
Your brother is a sinner, no doubt. There is, of course, truth to feminine discourse. There are violent men. There are rapists. There are men who cheat and commit adultery. That men sin should be of no revelation to a Christian.
In my opinion, however, if one takes a Christian point-of-view, adopting feminism is more sinful than any of the above. Why? Because it violates the most important commandment of them all - you will have no other gods other than God Himself. Embarrassingly, I called myself a feminist once, and looking back at that time, I can see what it did to me. It turned me into someone who worshipped women. Who believed that anything a woman said was truth, and that the way forward for society was to obey women even more than I already did. I put it to you then, was I not violating the first commandment? In my mind, yes I was. I had made women, or perhaps feminism, my god, and I was committing a most egregious violation of the commandments.
I will make a further point in addition to this, and that is that it is not only feminists that worship women. In fact, it is almost the de facto religion of Western societies. Both "traditionalists" and "progressives" worship women, but in different ways. "Traditionalists" claim that it is men's main and only role to provide for and protect women. Perhaps ultimately to "build society" or some such excuse. Even if that claim has merit, it is still sinful as it is, once again, violating that first commandment. The role of men is to follow God, and that must be the focus, not "providing for women" or "building society".
You might despair. But then, if I don't have a wife and children, how will my society continue? Leave that to God. Make it your goal to be follow God as truly as you can, that should be your focus as a man, for good will flow on from there. After all, for everything else, unlike God, we are not omniscient, and we should not be trying to overthink what may happen in the future if we do this or that. Have faith that it will be, for God is on your side.