What is everyone's opinion on those far from weak, artistic motivation, you too can become an alpha male, man's life starts at 30 videos that have propagated all over the place on YouTube? Although some of the advice is all right, and men certainly can improve themselves, they seem to just be more of the old tradcon "man up and do your part" crap that the blue pill normies push, as well as the old "you too can become an alpha male if you buy my 6 dvd set" grift. They also seem to be a subtle way to try and push men back into the dating and work market place despite them being such shit holes.
Problem is, why would any man take any risk in such a society or try and protect it? And why not become a criminal if a man "lives in the dark" and his only role is to grind? These arguments don't make sense based on past healthy societies, as healthy societies always tried to marry men off at a young age to keep them invested in society.
What say everyone? Is this some sort of grift, or coordinated attempt to push men back into society?
The issue is that a man's life doesn't start at 30, it's just that so many Millennial have an arrested development.
"Man Up and Do Your Part" isn't blue pilled, and is unfortunately the base level truth: no one is coming to save you. You can only save yourself, and you'll just have to get stronger.
You can't worry about society. Society is fallen, you're not going to fix it by yourself. You can only work to be a useful and valuable person to yourself, your friends, and your family. Building a community one friend at a time. Then building a future one child at a time.
Own property, build wealth, literally befriend your neighbors, make yourself valuable and beneficial to them. Find the community leaders, and work with them to help everyone. Build connections between the many atomotized people of your locality. Eventually, choose a wife from the friends of your friends who will help keep you working. Help her to ground her to reality and, let her help you navigate those relationships you've built, while keeping her value high. Then have children and teach them the same principles, and make them do the same thing.
If you can do that for 3 generations, we'll have a civilization again. Most generations were able to do that at 20 and younger because they had strong families that could make boys into men sooner. We've failed for at least 3 generations to do that, so the adolescence has been lengthened to nearly impossible time frames. Time frames that would normally lead to total collapse in previous eras. But, we can still start, even if it's late. It's just going to be hard.
I'm not a Christian. I'm not asking you to save anyone's soul. I don't think you should even waste your time on trying to fix your whole community as it is, rather than building a new one for yourself. Just focus on your immediate environment.
Everything else is likely a grift, and at best: educational material.
This is all well and good as long as you're manning up for yourself and the people you care about. Doing it for the sake of a rotting society that hates you for who you are is tradcuck shit. Men should build their lives and live for themselves instead of sacrificing for a society that hates them.
I agree with your premise here, even if I'm not sure that we can apply it.
Fundamentally, I'd be splitting hairs to disagree with you. Society can be made up of what you build. You can't change society by trying to address the state, you actually have to build a culture, social system, and family structure in a thoughtful and disciplined manner. If enough people do it, then you will actually get a society worth dying for.
"man up and do your part" is 100% bluepill slave thinking.
men, only protect and provide when you are compensated and respected for your effort. everyone else can die in a ditch complaining about "fairness" and "doing the right thing".
I only half-heartedly disagree with you.
We need to build a society that would naturally reward, compensate, and respect us for our efforts, which is when we can say "man up and do your part" to a society that actually needs and respects you.
We just don't have that now.
I'm not familiar with the exact videos that you're referring to, but anyone who says that anyone can be an alpha is grifter. A man's looks and height put a ceiling on his SMV, and if that ceiling is anything lower than Chad then dealing with women outside of honest pay to play arrangements is a waste of time. That's not to say that self improvement in the fitness and career fields is a waste of time, it's just that if you're doing it to attract women then you're setting yourself up to get betabuxed.
I think it's mostly grifters looking to sell shitty books/videos or their insanely overpriced "red pill coaching" services. The Red Pill is pretty much correct about how sexual selection works, but it massively oversells what it can actually do for the typical man who needs the information because of the SMV ceiling I mentioned above. If you're not Chad you're not going to come out ahead in any relationshit that you subject yourself to.
The smart ones tell men to improve themselves for themselves instead of for our rotting society. The LARPing tradcucks resort to shaming almost immediately, so they're easy to spot.
Based. This is the fundamental wisdom of MGTOW.
I think they're largely a product of many fathers failing to teach their sons basic shit about being a man because they assumed either the world or society would impart those lessons for them.
There is a market for this sort of messaging because society collectively failed to deliver for the current generation of men. No need to overthink it.
Or more to the point the fathers weren't in the picture and they were raised by single mothers.
No, it's also that intact nuclear families failed to deliver guidance as well. Single mothers are a scourge, but the problem is even bigger than that, which should be triggering crisis sirens everywhere, but it's going completely unnoticed.
As someone who is about to turn 30, and someone whose father married and really got his career rolling at 30, I think it depends on the kind of person. Some people are late bloomers, and there's nothing wrong with that. I've been feeling much better as a person as of late then I did when I was younger, and it feels like I'm really starting to get a handle on this "life" thing.
That being said, it is easy to fall into a place of complacency that traps you when you think "Oh, It'll be better tomorrow, I don't have to try today."
I'm in a similar boat. A lot of guys don't become men until their early to mid thirties. It's something that you can't describe. You just know when it happens. It happened for me at 29. It's much later in life than it used to be, but society doesn't give men much reason to mature earlier than that. Women their age are busy Chad chasing so men don't have a family to man up for.
This 100%. You have to get the ball rolling and keep it rolling. You can't just float through life like a lump of shit and expect things to go well.
I'm 34yo and I don't feel like my life started at 30. Quite the opposite really. I feel like my life ended at 30yo. From 20-30yo I pretty much experienced all there was for me to experience. Now I feel like I'm just existing until I die. It was much easier for me to accomplish anything I wanted when I was in my 20s than 30s.
Also, for the redpill shit where they keep talking about how men's value with women goes up when they're 30yo because they have more career success and money doesn't really seem to be the case at all. When I was 20yo, I could pickup women easier than now even though I had no money when I was 20. I think these redpill guys are just making shit up tbh.
I suppose it depends on the women you want to pick up
Sure, it's easier to pickup 35yo women when you're a 35yo man but why would you want to? I'd rather pickup 20yo women and that's way easier when you're a 22yo guy not 35yo.
The only thing that has got easier at 35yo is affording prostitutes but when I was younger I could pickup women who looked like prostitutes for free. At 35yo, if I want to pickup a good looking woman, I have to pay for it.
I really don't get the reality these men are living in where being in their 30s makes anything with women easier. The other 30yo guys I talk to all say the same thing too that trying to get women at 30yo+ seems way harder than in one's 20s. It just seems crazy to me that any guy thinks it's easier.
Vapid women who are willing to fuck you for money, just not directly.
Might as well get an escort in that case. It's cheaper, more honest, and the hooker will be better looking and funner in bed.
lol I hate women
I've had the opposite experience. I spent most of my 20s in the military, and despite racking up injuries I've kept up with fitness and I think that's key.
But I can pull better quality women now than I ever could in my 20s. In fact I've been astonished at how willing good quality women are to date well above their age range. My wife is ten years younger than I am.
Your wife? That tells me you've been out of the game for a while. Every year it gets worse and worse.
Nope, she and I have only been together a couple of years. I reentered the dating scene in my mid thirties.
I saw a stat here that older male/younger female couples were becoming more common.
From my experience, I believe it. At one point I had my pick of about half a dozen women, all younger than I am by a lot.
That's a really interesting point you bring up and doesn't surprise me when you look at dating stats because it matches up. When it comes to millennial women the fact is a lot of them are simply not interested in a long term relationship or marriage so it stands to reason that the younger generations of women will potentially deviate from the norm if they have different attitudes.
It's pretty depressing, because I wouldn't mind dating somebody my own age either, I'm not that fucking picky LOL. You even take a glance at the profiles of these women though and they're a fucking mess by anyone's standards.
Somebody fell behind the curve, then.
Women have greater leverage over men in dating the younger they are, maxing out at 18, then in a shallow decline. Equilibrium is reached late 20s, 27/28, and then after that men start to slowly pull away, then massively pull away 35-45.
Women's value goes down with age. Men's value increases. This is because older women are less fertile & less physically attractive & have fewer "hot" years left in them.
By contrast plenty of men in their 40s are considered to be highly attractive by women in their 30s. In addition, the older women get, the less they care about looks & social status, and the more they care about money & career status.
18 year old women don't care about money much if at all. They want popular, hot guys to boost their social standing with other women. Women in their 30s care far less about social standing because they aren't in school anymore so they aren't immersed in peer group competition. Instead, they compare themselves to other women from a distance based on material success & social status. Hence why male doctors in their 40s are wildly sought after by women in their 30s.
So if you're 34yo & you can't pull as easily as 20, then you fell off. You didn't get a good job. You didn't make money. Now the women you were fucking 14 years ago are passing you over for dudes who might not have held a candle to you 14 years ago but made better life choices and passed you up financially.
When I was late 20s I noticed that when I dated 22 year old college girls, they didn't give a shit that I was a lawyer. But when I dated women in their 30s & 40s, all I had to do was mention I was a lawyer & wear a suit to dinner at a nice restaurant & they'd trip before they reached the front door their panties would drop so fast.
And while some older women were harder to pull, that's because they were hot tan beach city bitches with big fake tits who used to be not even attainable when they were 10 years younger, but now they were.
This hasn't been my experience though. I have a pretty good job and make $150k/yr. Women my age already make their own money and don't seem to care what men make. Young women never cared what men make, just how "cool" he was. A good friend of mine makes $250k/yr and doesn't have much success with women in his 30s either.
I think perhaps the difference lies in the fact that I don't find women my age attractive so dating seems much harder than when I was in my 20s and actually able to date women I did find attractive.
I hardly consider it "easier" to date when all the women who are datable at my age are total garbage. Like, when you were 22 years old, there was always a sea of fat chicks you could take home from the bars/clubs but no one said "dating was easy at 22yo" because you can take home fat chicks no problem.
At 30yo to actually date quality women is near impossible because there aren't any quality women 30yo+. All the women worth dating got picked up when they were in their 20s, and usually it was by men 0-5 years older than then not men in their 30s who were 10+ years older than them. The latter is an exceptional circumstance. Thus it's much harder to date in your 30s. Being able to more readily date trash doesn't mean dating is easier.
Stop dating coworkers. Plenty of women are broke as shit.
Yeah and those relationships often don't work out so they end up single again.
And the reason the relationship didn't workout is because of the woman. The women you want to date are the ones who are still in successful relationships in their 30s with the men they dated in their 20s.
Not true at all.
My current girlfriend broke up with her long term ex because he was selfish & basically steamrolled her. She was too bad at confrontation to fight for getting her way, so she kept building up resentment for years until she got fed up enough to leave him.
She met me a year later & we've been together in a successful relationship for over 10 years now.
Contrary to your thinking, not all women are damaged goods just because a relationship didn't work out.
I met plenty of quality women in their 30s when I was dating. They tend to have their shit together much better than girls under 25 & aren't nearly as crazy on average.
This is the story every woman says but AWALT is very true. You got lucky. Not every man can win the lottery. The vast majority of 30yo women are damaged goods.
say absolutely 0 sexually successful men
I did get lucky with my current GF, but is it lucky when I worked my ass off grinding dating for years? I dated literally hundreds of women. Probably 20-30% of them would have been workable as girlfriend material. Only about 10% were actual batshit, but that's where all my dating stories come from. Maybe 30% were totally fine I just wasn't physically into them, and about 30% were incompatible in terms of personality with me but would have been fine for other men with different personalities.
Quite the opposite for me.
Being stuck in a post-communist shit hole with narc mother and brother was not happy or living. Moved out at around 26 to UK. I'm not young, but now I'm everything else.
If it's all about sex for you then yeah. There's more to life than that.
....... Your idea of avoiding a post communist shithole is to move into a current shithole? LOL I'm still having a deep think of getting the fuck out of my country.
In my old shithole the minimum monthly wage would force me to decide on whether I'm eating or paying rent this month.
In my new shithole the rent is 1/3 of what I take home.
In my old shithole I was physically beaten in school for being a sperg to the point of regular bloody nose.
In my new shithole I have yet to see someone giving me so much as a stink eye. If anything the "go home gamer girl" face fucks are the one who are told to piss off.
In my old shithole I had to put up with narc mother who does the bare minimum while my narc brother took full advantage and made me into a punching bag along with just taking my shit as he pleased.
In my new shithole I met a old scotish gypsy who showed me more warmth and support then either of my parents ever did. Even housed me after he tried to find me a renting place after it didn't worked out.
In my old shithole I would come back from school and be greeted by "Dałn, zjeb, niedojeb" or outright kicked out of my own bedroom just because that asshole sibling felt like using my PC instead of fixing his own.
In my new shithole I enter my apartment and I find it empty and hospitable. It's nice to sit in your bedroom without door being suddenly opened and said "Wypierdalaj".
If UK is a shithole then show me heaven.
Touché, I will still warn though that things are getting pretty bad here, you may not have to deal with that cancer of a life but you will possibly be getting your door kicked in for posting there are only two genders online.
I'm under no illusion that big cities and other brutalist jungles are under yoke. That's why I live in suburbs where there's only one police station to cover 200k people.
It's technically true if you're looking to become a betabux, something the smarter red pillers rightly tell men to avoid like the plague.
That's because age gap pairings are about money. For sex they want Chads closer to their age. Like any other beta the older guy has to jump through hoops to get what Chad gets for free. There's no "picking her up". Admittedly age gap relationships are a better deal for the man than bailing out a ran through whore with Tyrone's kids in tow, but they still end with her divorce raping him and stealing all his shit.
This is exactly what it is. It's these "redpill" guys who think being a beta bucks is ideal. You're right, it is easier to be a beta bucks in your 30s but that's something I've never wanted to be so it was easier to be "Chad" in my 20s and just having enjoyable sex with women. In my 30s, that's over. All you can be in your 30s is beta bucks or john.
This is what careful vetting and hiding your real net worth is for to avoid and that shit is getting very real for me now I've managed to end up owning my own property. My lack of a social life at the moment though is kind of a blessing and a curse because while I just simply don't know many people RL in the area I've moved to yet it also means I can keep a pretty low profile when it comes to women. Unless it's a prostitute, honestly, spending money to impress women is a mega mistake, all you're going to do is attract the gold digging type and that's not good for anyone.
Women are stupid though. You could be a 20yo dude with a $10,000 CC and attract gold diggers easier than a 35yo dude with a $500,000 house, a $50,000 car and retirement savings because women only ever see the immediate money spent on them.
If you're spending money to attract women, you aren't attracting quality women.
People are like that generally and that's the point, keep a low profile and you don't become a target.
I know exactly what videos you are on about and I've also seen the same posting behaviour from accounts. I consider it a mixture of both, sometimes it's a grift, sometimes it's a genuine attempt by somebody to effectively point a gun and men in the most heartless and insincere fashion and tell them to 'be normal' as if it's that easy. Clueless dipshits who haven't been in the dating market for 30 years and are probably married themselves so they have nothing to worry about and don't realise their dating advice is incredibly out of date.
Once you've seen one of these videos you've seen them all and I completely agree with you on how out of touch they are. They are mostly standard tradcon mantras from out of touch generation X'ers that you are correct about do not take into account just how bad dating really is for the average guy out there.
If they're the type to just spam shit on their account in order to get people to buy their videos ignore them as they almost certainly are a grift and will likely have no intentions of earnestly communicating with people critical of them. I have found though that a good few generation X'ers are pretty receptive and I think it's partly just because a lot of them will have sons and things like that and they see the shit they go through and it makes them really sad.
Hell, even though I really find the lotus eaters quite cringe these days and can't watch it anymore because it's typical cuckservative mantras with no real solutions I still like Sargon and co. as people because Sargon actually responded to a criticism of mine I posted on Gab on one of his livestreams and he understood the points I was making. That won quite a bit of respect from me, but the rest of them? Yeah, fucking grifters to the core, this is why I don't trust the Andrew Tate and Jack Murphy types.
The amount of times these family values types have been ousted as fetishists or fakers of some degree is pretty ridiculous. Then you have the Andrew Tates of the world who even on the surface level just look like they're operating a grift and are really not people young men should be taking advice from except on how to pick up and manipulate slutty women who are not marriage material in any capacity.
Keep in mind, I am not saying men shouldn't improve themselves and that modern men don't have something to learn from older generations. I am not saying that at all. It just seems like more of a way to lay more responsibility onto young men and shift the blame of a shitty society squarely at their feat while giving then watered down red pill, or even flat out blue pill advice.
Men should improve themselves for their own sakes. "Doing better" for women and a society that hates them? Fuck that shit.
The problem with what the red pill commentators are selling is that they forget on crucial aspect of the equation - an individuals social circle. In your teens and twenties, you are socialising with your fellow peers. And people tend to meet their friends and partners in closed social groups offline and increasingly online. And the uncomfortable truth for those commentators, women have an easier time than men in relation to being in social groups which is why when we talk of a loneliness epidemic, it's primarily men and not women.
So what happens if you focus on education and career in your twenties? You don't form those friendships and closed social groups. If you do have any friends, they will form relationships and become more distant or even cut themselves off. Now you find yourself lonely in your thirties cut off from every other closed social group and unable to form new friends or find a partner, particularly with the absolute train wreck that is online dating today. Ironically, only a small minority use online dating (9% in the last year, 30% at any time in their life), most people who meet online meet via closed social groups (such as online gaming or chat groups) or social media. Surprised me because you'd think that online dating use would explode after "the event". But no, recent data shows the opposite.
I've seen many a millionaire, people who would be seen as peak-SMV in their thirties by commentators, appearing on dating shows back in the 90s and 00s. What they claim does not match reality.
The other thing they do is promote fitness as if it is the cure for all ills. While going to the gym is a good thing, it isn't the miracle that it is being sold as.
You also see the problem of extended adolescence, where people still live with their parents (because they can't afford to get on to the housing ladder) or rent, are not learning to drive, are not moving forward with education and career while failing to do things that would be seen as basics by potential partners in their twenties. The concept is known as "failing to launch".
So you have a low paid job, no home or at best rent, declining number of friends and little to show for it. Maybe a small apartment in a city with a decent gym body. It's no surprise we're seeing men in their forties warning younger men to not follow this path lest they want to be involuntary monks.
"men only become valuable to women at about age 30"
for real. stop thinking in terms of females and what females want and desire.
your life as a man starts at puberty. you need a strong male role model and you need to be launching yourself off the starting blocks as hard as you can. you need your family, your mother, your sisters to stay the fuck out of your way, shut their dumb mouths, and support you. They owe you that. No one else is going to help. no one is going to protect and provide for you. you are expected to build yourself into someone that can do that for yourself, in addition to an entire family.
anyone not on your side - tell them to eat your shit and fuck off and die. do not allow anyone near your social circle who doesn't have your best interests in mind.
Tourgen takes go hard as hell
In some ways yes, but not always intentionally. The moment there is a market for something there is someone there to be its face. Unfortunately, we like to male-brain things a little too closely, overly theorize and abstract things that are born without logical impetus (inasfar as they interact with us) - this is why this shit gets sold to us, and I think insecurity and uncertainty are extravagant cashcows because we live in a context where those two things are the only constants we experience as men.
I think "money" (Mammon when it goes beyond the value of labor) has a way of manifesting its will through people, almost as if playing dolly with itself to launder more and more and more of itself into being, and its current imperative us to do exactly as you suggest; which is to lure its prey in to the same trap as it always has, especially when it has corrupted the previously functioning rules and laws of men.
The only thing that could ever change the current tide of indecency and abuse is of course a new set of rules as opposed to thriving in what is unapologetically broken but that is not profitable. No one can sell you a pair of eyes, much less a pair of balls, but the illusion is important to the powers at work. It really is important that you have neither while thinking you have them.
You want to "start your life at 30", take them back for yourself and play to your own meta. I think the best solution is a parallel society with or without anyone's permission; can't outlaw the secret handshake and a good social streak. Sure as shit worthy of the rest of my life. Social skills are king.
I assume so, but not for some devious reason but because of genuinely believing it is for the better of men. I've not watched any of those videos but I assume this are along the lines of build yourself up to be able to get a good wife and then build a family. That is not a bad advice but with the entire feminist society we live in it just does not seem advantageous for men.
Even without the marriage part men need to better themselves and we need a goal to work towards to keep happy long term.