Their low sex drives are because they see the men they're with as betas and use sex as a way to control them. Women don't expect Chad to do housework. Any man who's being badgered about housework should walk away because it's not going to get better. Women do horrible things to men that they don't see as alphas.
As for the man-child himself, there’s a fairly simple solution. “Men should take on an equitable share of household labour,” says Harris.
Sure, but what counts as equitable? Being expected to to do half the housework isn't equitable if you bust your ass all day at a real job while she works at some bullshit job so she can LARP as a Strong Independent Woman.
Annie’s come up with a probably flawed solution: “I’m just going to not clean his shit up for a while and see what happens.”
That's actually not a bad idea. He'll probably do his cleaning to his own standards on his own schedule. It's a much healthier approach than incessantly nagging him and withholding sex to get what she wants.
Here's how you actually combat the "men should take on an equitable share of household labour"...
All men would agree with this in concept. Men are very much about equity. The problem though when you get into equity issues with women is that women are unable to grasp quality/effort of work and are only really good at grasping time of work and only time of work they can observe. To give you a really basic example: A man might decide to rewire something. If the man has no experience wiring things, this can be fairly dangerous. He's going to need to read up on it for a few hours at least and watch some youtube videos. He has to research. The wiring itself might take him 30 minutes to do but it required a couple days of research and a lot of brainpower on his part, not to mention risk involved in doing something entirely new. It wasn't easy or comfortable at all and was outside his comfort zone. A woman sees the man spend 30 minutes rewiring something and to her, her 30 minutes of doing the dishes is on par with that labour. This is incredibly inequitable in the way she's treating his work but that is how much women will treat it.
Now back to how you handle this... Women shouldn't be working a full-time 40 hour a week job. Women should instead be at home, home-schooling and looking after the household. Thus your 40 hours of work to earn an income should be equivalent to her cooking, cleaning and looking after the kids. In this way you never have an argument on equity because you have completely different roles.
When both people work, it causes massive problems with regard to equity. For example, I spent 8 years in education with a masters in statistics and my work is something most women, or people even, aren't smart enough to do. Do I work hard? Absolutely not. I have an extremely well-paid easy job but I earned this through 8 years of schooling and my superior intelligence. A woman might realize I don't work that hard because I come home from work early and I'm not stressed out. Meanwhile, she might be a nurse who is stressed out of her mind. She now thinks I should contribute more to the household work because I have an easier job despite the fact I earn twice as much as she does. Just because I'm smarter and worked hard to get to where I am doesn't mean I should have to do more work at home simply because of her lack of competence. But women will see it this way.
Trust me, I've been in long-term serious relationships... The only real way to make a relationship work when it comes to equitable work is to not have the woman work and to have completely distinct roles rather than having the same role and splitting things 50/50. Each person should have a completely different responsibility. No shared responsibilities. Otherwise, there's going to be issues. Most modern relationships that work-well tend to be ones where the men do most of the work yet the irony of these relationships is the women often try to proclaim that they are contributing 50/50. Men get 0 appreciation for their contribution.
She now thinks I should contribute more to the household work because I have an easier job despite the fact I earn twice as much as she does. Just because I'm smarter and worked hard to get to where I am doesn't mean I should have to do more work at home simply because of her lack of competence. But women will see it this way.
I agree with the wiring part but not with this. Your intelligence and 8 years of schooling are part of the value you bring to this hypothetical scenario, but you're trying to create a division of labor that works for your family. Being all 'I shouldn't have to do the extra work I clearly have time and energy for, because I earned my easy job because I'm smarter than you' when she's working hard and struggling isn't healthy, and it's very adversarial. You make it sound like your first response to any discussion about fairness is to try and outsmart her so you get what you want and she doesn't.
Do you think a doctor should be paid the same as a garbage man? Why not? What is it about a doctor's work that makes it more valuable? Supply/demand, right? I'm saying the work I do is more valuable than the work she does overall, just because she might struggle more doesn't mean my work is any lesser than hers or hers is somehow "more work".
I don't know what you do except that it requires a master's in statistics, does it provide a more worthwhile service to society than caring for the sick? You are much less replaceable than a nurse so sure, from a supply and demand perspective your work is worth more. It's not lesser than hers. But in present terms, hers is more work if you are, by your own words, enjoying a very easy job and she is working hard and stressed from it.
We're likely on the same page, mostly. More goes into assessing value than just what you see on the surface. Feminist messaging is all about ignoring reality in order to coddle women and push all responsibility onto men.
I'm just saying a domestic partnership should be about supporting each other and the larger family, not deciding that you get to put in less work (that you have more time and energy to do) because you're more intelligent and educated than your overworked partner.
Which is why it's always preferably to have a wife who doesn't work, so she can contribute in other ways and not think you need to work harder to be equitable.
Let's frame it another way. If you earn $200k/yr working part-time and she earns $50k/yr working full-time; who should be doing the cooking and cleaning? She'll say you because she works harder but in reality it should be her because you're contributing 4x as much to the relationship. Equitable means she needs to pull up her contribution level in such a scenario. That's the point I'm getting at.
you're contributing 4x as much to the relationship
That's only true if your only metric is financial. Relationships are far more complicated than that. For example, I'd argue that a stay at home mom is contributing a fair contribution of effort or labor raising the couple's children even though she's not bringing in an income.
Exactly and most men will make that argument. But when your wife is bagging groceries at the grocery store, coming home, saying she works harder than you and you should do all the work, that's probably going to be a problem yet if she didn't work and did all the housework, you'd prefer that over her bagging groceries. I get that it's more complicated. I'm just saying the easiest way to solve any complications is to get her to not work and do precisely what you said you'd find value in.
When a woman work full time, you're going to run into huge problems with what is fair and equal work in a relationship.
The issue is that every woman wants to be a nurse or a teacher, to the point that male teachers are a vanishing minority and male nurses are distinctly rare.
Nursing and teaching have become an overwhelmingly female dominated profession. As a result, the supply of nurses is high, and the market rate for their labor is lower.
Women don't want to do statistics. They hate math. Even women who don't hate math would still much rather follow a career in their interest.
Men are willing to make sacrifices to peruse a career that pays the most money. Women will "follow their heart", even if the pay is total shit.
You can put a value on jobs and roles that are "more worthwhile service to society". It is a dollar value.
But that counts for jack and shit when it comes to brining home the bacon.
Woman: "Oh darling, I want to follow my heart and dreams and care for the sick."
Man: "So I am going to have to earn more money while you gain satisfaction from your job? Because the mortgage doesn't fucking are how satisfied I am at work."
Women will not be exploration geologists, pipeline welders, long haul truck drivers, mechanics, armed guards or diesel fitters. It doesn't matter a tiny fuck how beneficial to society each of those roles are. If they are not starving to death, and they have the choice, they will pick a more "feminine" profession.
So here is the question: Are you going to subsidize her doing what she wants while you bust your hump? To follow up, are you going to thank her for her sacrifice, and then do even more chores?
Woman: "Oh darling, I want to follow my heart and dreams and care for the sick." Man: "So I am going to have to earn more money while you gain satisfaction from your job? Because the mortgage doesn't fucking are how satisfied I am at work."
So here is the question: Are you going to subsidize her doing what she wants while you bust your hump? To follow up, are you going to thank her for her sacrifice, and then do even more chores?
Okay those are good points. A domestic partnership should recognize the impact that one person's choices have on the other. Taking a fulfilling job over a well paying job sounds great in theory but if that means a partner has to pick up the slack then they need to discuss it and come to an agreement. Of course, feminism tells women that they should do whatever they want and any second not spent fulfilling every whim they have is tragic oppression, so anyone advocating for rationality is facing an uphill battle.
But in OP's scenario, he wasn't busting his hump and she was. She was the one who was stressed and overworked. My whole point was that 'I'm smart and you're not, so you can suffer while I put my feet up' doesn't make for a healthy partnership. But if they want to have a conversation about her chosen career demanding too much and paying too little, and how that affects the rest of the family, that's fair.
OP should dump her goldbricking ass and keep his extra take home pay. In his scenario his wife doesn't earn a comparative wage, nor does he get any benefits from her partnership. She doesn't cook or clean. I bet a shiny dollar the kids would be in full time care.
Why on earth would he subsidize her feel-good feelings and need for social status? WTF is she bringing to the relationship?
If all she can offer is her pussy ... well, what does that say about her? Get a rental and stop over-paying.
Yeah that's pretty much where I'm at, down to the MS in statistics, although I'm still working on that part. I'm actually a MGTOW who refuses to cohabitate so it's unlikely that I'll ever have to draw that line but there's no way I'd put up with some "boss girl" ordering me around in my own living space. The trad set up is the only set up I would even kind of think about considering.
It depends on whether she's actually a clean freak or just mad that she is doing more of the work. If she's a freak, no amount of his self directed cleaning will be good enough. If she is not then potentially doing less work overall could be better for both of them. But that's giving up a lot of control. For the control freak it's easier to "fix" it and then complain about it. Which is why these problems are so hard to resolve
This article is conflating what we usually call manchildren - men frozen in adolescence and obsessed with fantasy consoomerism - with a different phenomenon.
Women don't respect or want to have sex with "Mr. Mom" either.
They wouldn't be complaining if they were with an alpha. They resent the men they're with for not being the Chads they feel entitled to. That's the source of all their relationship problems. The horseshit surrounding the housework debate is just a symptom of that.
I believe in traditional gender chores in my house because she sure as shit ain't going to take out the dead tree. That might work differently if you married a lumberjack (or even a farm girl). In any case, there's more to be done than housework. If you have a small apartment, I'm not sure what there is to fight about. One person can clean an apartment 2 people live in in. I have done it. It's 30 mins a day, tops.
Online you're simply talking to women who love to complain.
Most of the women online are older women who've lost the ability to attract attention through sexuality, but want to relive the attention and control, closest they can get is complaining about men.
Their definition of manchild generally boils down to a man who lives for himself instead of letting some bitch control him. It's not that there aren't plenty of of 30 going on 14 men out there, but that's what our society incentivizes. The low value of modern women and their unreasonable standards lead men to conclude that there's more to life than chasing women. They call those men manchildren because it enrages them to see men that have time, resources, attention, etc that they haven't monopolized for themselves.
Even if what they're saying is true, notice how it frames a relationship problem as the man's fault. The woman is choosing to do housework, and the woman's desire is based on her poor opinion of her spouse - yet it's men who need to change?
What if men don't like being nagged like a child by a second mother, and that lowers their sex drive? Nah, women most affected.
They should change but the primary reason they never will is women who enable them.
I actually think that its mostly due to absent fathers or fathers who fail to discipline or uphold standards with their children. You see this with single moms who are overly indulgent out of guilt or over mother their children by feeding and picking up after them even well past the age where they should be taking care of themselves.
Elijah Schaffer is an example of this. He admits that he acts like such a faggot is because he was raised by a single mom and had no male role model.
I think that's why old Jordan Peterson was so popular. Just having a male role model telling you to pick up your room is desperately needed by a lot of young people.
No, this is their deliberate tactic. But shaming men for acting like the women is the real basis of what they're doing.
They find some rare edge case 0.1% men that act like women in some way then obssess over it again and again until they've deliverately misrepresented it as the common case and now you end up going on that "men" act in such and such a way that's actually how averagec women act.
I suppose all the children that ended up being born in the past, families of 7 or 8 or even more, when men went to work and women just played housewife doing almost nothing but cooking, cleaning, and housemaking, those children must all have been products of domestic rape where the woman had no sexual appetite for the man she was cooking and cleaning for.
Is there any household where women do not perform more of that "labour"?
Yeah, the households that consist of a simp paying for a thot's bad choices, and usually some other dude's kids. They do all the bitch work like a good male feminist cuck. Of course the simping makes her dryer than the Sahara so she cucks him, often with the father of the children her beta simp is paying for.
They dug their own graves, let them lay in it. Sometimes the best way to prove a point is let others do their own thing and suffer the consequences.
"Nooooooooo men have to be nice and harmless and cute and feminine like us!"
"W-What do you mean that results in men who we aren't biologically attracted to, and are more likely to just do their own thing instead of fucking us daily?"
"W-Where's Chad when we need him, I'm 45 and ready to settle down!"
including planning social events and providing emotional support
Both of these are things that women are far more into than men and its unrealistic for women to think that men will care about them as much as they do. Its like the whole "emotional labor" argument. Men and women fundamentally come at these things differently, so rather than expecting men to behave like women, you have to recalibrate women's expectations to not expect men to think like them.
Their low sex drives are because they see the men they're with as betas and use sex as a way to control them. Women don't expect Chad to do housework. Any man who's being badgered about housework should walk away because it's not going to get better. Women do horrible things to men that they don't see as alphas.
Sure, but what counts as equitable? Being expected to to do half the housework isn't equitable if you bust your ass all day at a real job while she works at some bullshit job so she can LARP as a Strong Independent Woman.
That's actually not a bad idea. He'll probably do his cleaning to his own standards on his own schedule. It's a much healthier approach than incessantly nagging him and withholding sex to get what she wants.
Here's how you actually combat the "men should take on an equitable share of household labour"...
All men would agree with this in concept. Men are very much about equity. The problem though when you get into equity issues with women is that women are unable to grasp quality/effort of work and are only really good at grasping time of work and only time of work they can observe. To give you a really basic example: A man might decide to rewire something. If the man has no experience wiring things, this can be fairly dangerous. He's going to need to read up on it for a few hours at least and watch some youtube videos. He has to research. The wiring itself might take him 30 minutes to do but it required a couple days of research and a lot of brainpower on his part, not to mention risk involved in doing something entirely new. It wasn't easy or comfortable at all and was outside his comfort zone. A woman sees the man spend 30 minutes rewiring something and to her, her 30 minutes of doing the dishes is on par with that labour. This is incredibly inequitable in the way she's treating his work but that is how much women will treat it.
Now back to how you handle this... Women shouldn't be working a full-time 40 hour a week job. Women should instead be at home, home-schooling and looking after the household. Thus your 40 hours of work to earn an income should be equivalent to her cooking, cleaning and looking after the kids. In this way you never have an argument on equity because you have completely different roles.
When both people work, it causes massive problems with regard to equity. For example, I spent 8 years in education with a masters in statistics and my work is something most women, or people even, aren't smart enough to do. Do I work hard? Absolutely not. I have an extremely well-paid easy job but I earned this through 8 years of schooling and my superior intelligence. A woman might realize I don't work that hard because I come home from work early and I'm not stressed out. Meanwhile, she might be a nurse who is stressed out of her mind. She now thinks I should contribute more to the household work because I have an easier job despite the fact I earn twice as much as she does. Just because I'm smarter and worked hard to get to where I am doesn't mean I should have to do more work at home simply because of her lack of competence. But women will see it this way.
Trust me, I've been in long-term serious relationships... The only real way to make a relationship work when it comes to equitable work is to not have the woman work and to have completely distinct roles rather than having the same role and splitting things 50/50. Each person should have a completely different responsibility. No shared responsibilities. Otherwise, there's going to be issues. Most modern relationships that work-well tend to be ones where the men do most of the work yet the irony of these relationships is the women often try to proclaim that they are contributing 50/50. Men get 0 appreciation for their contribution.
I told my wife: the kids will be out of diapers in a few years, the lawn will have to be mowed forever. Get over it.
The The Manipulated Man, Esther Vilar explained women enjoy menial chores because they (women) are stupid.
Truth. This really is the only way to go.
I agree with the wiring part but not with this. Your intelligence and 8 years of schooling are part of the value you bring to this hypothetical scenario, but you're trying to create a division of labor that works for your family. Being all 'I shouldn't have to do the extra work I clearly have time and energy for, because I earned my easy job because I'm smarter than you' when she's working hard and struggling isn't healthy, and it's very adversarial. You make it sound like your first response to any discussion about fairness is to try and outsmart her so you get what you want and she doesn't.
Do you think a doctor should be paid the same as a garbage man? Why not? What is it about a doctor's work that makes it more valuable? Supply/demand, right? I'm saying the work I do is more valuable than the work she does overall, just because she might struggle more doesn't mean my work is any lesser than hers or hers is somehow "more work".
I don't know what you do except that it requires a master's in statistics, does it provide a more worthwhile service to society than caring for the sick? You are much less replaceable than a nurse so sure, from a supply and demand perspective your work is worth more. It's not lesser than hers. But in present terms, hers is more work if you are, by your own words, enjoying a very easy job and she is working hard and stressed from it.
We're likely on the same page, mostly. More goes into assessing value than just what you see on the surface. Feminist messaging is all about ignoring reality in order to coddle women and push all responsibility onto men.
I'm just saying a domestic partnership should be about supporting each other and the larger family, not deciding that you get to put in less work (that you have more time and energy to do) because you're more intelligent and educated than your overworked partner.
Which is why it's always preferably to have a wife who doesn't work, so she can contribute in other ways and not think you need to work harder to be equitable.
Let's frame it another way. If you earn $200k/yr working part-time and she earns $50k/yr working full-time; who should be doing the cooking and cleaning? She'll say you because she works harder but in reality it should be her because you're contributing 4x as much to the relationship. Equitable means she needs to pull up her contribution level in such a scenario. That's the point I'm getting at.
That's only true if your only metric is financial. Relationships are far more complicated than that. For example, I'd argue that a stay at home mom is contributing a fair contribution of effort or labor raising the couple's children even though she's not bringing in an income.
Exactly and most men will make that argument. But when your wife is bagging groceries at the grocery store, coming home, saying she works harder than you and you should do all the work, that's probably going to be a problem yet if she didn't work and did all the housework, you'd prefer that over her bagging groceries. I get that it's more complicated. I'm just saying the easiest way to solve any complications is to get her to not work and do precisely what you said you'd find value in.
When a woman work full time, you're going to run into huge problems with what is fair and equal work in a relationship.
The issue is that every woman wants to be a nurse or a teacher, to the point that male teachers are a vanishing minority and male nurses are distinctly rare.
Nursing and teaching have become an overwhelmingly female dominated profession. As a result, the supply of nurses is high, and the market rate for their labor is lower.
Women don't want to do statistics. They hate math. Even women who don't hate math would still much rather follow a career in their interest.
Men are willing to make sacrifices to peruse a career that pays the most money. Women will "follow their heart", even if the pay is total shit.
You can put a value on jobs and roles that are "more worthwhile service to society". It is a dollar value.
But that counts for jack and shit when it comes to brining home the bacon.
Woman: "Oh darling, I want to follow my heart and dreams and care for the sick." Man: "So I am going to have to earn more money while you gain satisfaction from your job? Because the mortgage doesn't fucking are how satisfied I am at work."
Women will not be exploration geologists, pipeline welders, long haul truck drivers, mechanics, armed guards or diesel fitters. It doesn't matter a tiny fuck how beneficial to society each of those roles are. If they are not starving to death, and they have the choice, they will pick a more "feminine" profession.
So here is the question: Are you going to subsidize her doing what she wants while you bust your hump? To follow up, are you going to thank her for her sacrifice, and then do even more chores?
Why?
Okay those are good points. A domestic partnership should recognize the impact that one person's choices have on the other. Taking a fulfilling job over a well paying job sounds great in theory but if that means a partner has to pick up the slack then they need to discuss it and come to an agreement. Of course, feminism tells women that they should do whatever they want and any second not spent fulfilling every whim they have is tragic oppression, so anyone advocating for rationality is facing an uphill battle.
But in OP's scenario, he wasn't busting his hump and she was. She was the one who was stressed and overworked. My whole point was that 'I'm smart and you're not, so you can suffer while I put my feet up' doesn't make for a healthy partnership. But if they want to have a conversation about her chosen career demanding too much and paying too little, and how that affects the rest of the family, that's fair.
OP should dump her goldbricking ass and keep his extra take home pay. In his scenario his wife doesn't earn a comparative wage, nor does he get any benefits from her partnership. She doesn't cook or clean. I bet a shiny dollar the kids would be in full time care.
Why on earth would he subsidize her feel-good feelings and need for social status? WTF is she bringing to the relationship?
If all she can offer is her pussy ... well, what does that say about her? Get a rental and stop over-paying.
Yeah that's pretty much where I'm at, down to the MS in statistics, although I'm still working on that part. I'm actually a MGTOW who refuses to cohabitate so it's unlikely that I'll ever have to draw that line but there's no way I'd put up with some "boss girl" ordering me around in my own living space. The trad set up is the only set up I would even kind of think about considering.
It depends on whether she's actually a clean freak or just mad that she is doing more of the work. If she's a freak, no amount of his self directed cleaning will be good enough. If she is not then potentially doing less work overall could be better for both of them. But that's giving up a lot of control. For the control freak it's easier to "fix" it and then complain about it. Which is why these problems are so hard to resolve
This article is conflating what we usually call manchildren - men frozen in adolescence and obsessed with fantasy consoomerism - with a different phenomenon.
Women don't respect or want to have sex with "Mr. Mom" either.
This article is women saying they don't want to do their job. Their husbands may also suck, but not in the way these women are complaining.
They wouldn't be complaining if they were with an alpha. They resent the men they're with for not being the Chads they feel entitled to. That's the source of all their relationship problems. The horseshit surrounding the housework debate is just a symptom of that.
I believe in traditional gender chores in my house because she sure as shit ain't going to take out the dead tree. That might work differently if you married a lumberjack (or even a farm girl). In any case, there's more to be done than housework. If you have a small apartment, I'm not sure what there is to fight about. One person can clean an apartment 2 people live in in. I have done it. It's 30 mins a day, tops.
Online you're simply talking to women who love to complain.
Most of the women online are older women who've lost the ability to attract attention through sexuality, but want to relive the attention and control, closest they can get is complaining about men.
Their definition of manchild generally boils down to a man who lives for himself instead of letting some bitch control him. It's not that there aren't plenty of of 30 going on 14 men out there, but that's what our society incentivizes. The low value of modern women and their unreasonable standards lead men to conclude that there's more to life than chasing women. They call those men manchildren because it enrages them to see men that have time, resources, attention, etc that they haven't monopolized for themselves.
Even if what they're saying is true, notice how it frames a relationship problem as the man's fault. The woman is choosing to do housework, and the woman's desire is based on her poor opinion of her spouse - yet it's men who need to change?
What if men don't like being nagged like a child by a second mother, and that lowers their sex drive? Nah, women most affected.
I actually think that its mostly due to absent fathers or fathers who fail to discipline or uphold standards with their children. You see this with single moms who are overly indulgent out of guilt or over mother their children by feeding and picking up after them even well past the age where they should be taking care of themselves.
Elijah Schaffer is an example of this. He admits that he acts like such a faggot is because he was raised by a single mom and had no male role model.
I think that's why old Jordan Peterson was so popular. Just having a male role model telling you to pick up your room is desperately needed by a lot of young people.
It's women thinking they can fix retards
Who is the bigger retard in that situation?
No, this is their deliberate tactic. But shaming men for acting like the women is the real basis of what they're doing.
They find some rare edge case 0.1% men that act like women in some way then obssess over it again and again until they've deliverately misrepresented it as the common case and now you end up going on that "men" act in such and such a way that's actually how averagec women act.
I know 10 girls like this, and 1 guy like this. It's largely a girl thing.
The complaint is that there's a small number of men acting off the standard women's script.
I suppose all the children that ended up being born in the past, families of 7 or 8 or even more, when men went to work and women just played housewife doing almost nothing but cooking, cleaning, and housemaking, those children must all have been products of domestic rape where the woman had no sexual appetite for the man she was cooking and cleaning for.
Fuck me they actually probably think that's true.
Is there any household where women do not perform more of that "labour"?
So basically, according to this "research", no woman ever has a sex drive.
I guess they do say married couples lose the desire, kek
Yeah, the households that consist of a simp paying for a thot's bad choices, and usually some other dude's kids. They do all the bitch work like a good male feminist cuck. Of course the simping makes her dryer than the Sahara so she cucks him, often with the father of the children her beta simp is paying for.
islam is right about women
But is it more or less than birth control is destroying their sex drives?
They dug their own graves, let them lay in it. Sometimes the best way to prove a point is let others do their own thing and suffer the consequences.
"Nooooooooo men have to be nice and harmless and cute and feminine like us!"
"W-What do you mean that results in men who we aren't biologically attracted to, and are more likely to just do their own thing instead of fucking us daily?"
"W-Where's Chad when we need him, I'm 45 and ready to settle down!"
Yea, I don't think incompetent men has ever been a normal dynamic for a society.
Damn, I was sure soylent green, manboobs and a nusmile were chick magnets of the highest order.
Oh so Chad doesn’t want them anymore?
Obviously not. If he did they wouldn't be bitching about his refusal to do housework. Only betas have to deal with that shit.
Both of these are things that women are far more into than men and its unrealistic for women to think that men will care about them as much as they do. Its like the whole "emotional labor" argument. Men and women fundamentally come at these things differently, so rather than expecting men to behave like women, you have to recalibrate women's expectations to not expect men to think like them.
the fruits of feminism